Another Engine Failure

I�ve been told that my engine needs to be replaced. The Porsche mechanic said it is either a crack cylinder head or failed gasket. The service manager said the leak down test points to one or the other but we will not know which until the engine is removed. He said Porsche recommends replacement rather than trying to rebuild and that it would cost just as much to rebuild as to replace. He quoted me $13,200 for a Porsche remanufactured engine. I�ve been a life long fan of Porsche cars and it�s very upsetting and discouraging that a car costing this much and promoted as being reliable could have a failure of this nature with so little miles. Seeing that my car has less than 70,000 miles, 50,000 of which I put on since buying the car a little over two years ago, and having never been raced and just one DE event completed, should the cylinder head crack or the gasket fail? I don�t think so! I haven�t driven the car extremely hard and I change the oil every 5000 miles. The RMS was changed when the clutch was replaced even though it wasn�t leaking. Are head gaskets prone to catastrophic failure? I had the 60,000 mile major maintenance completed a few months ago with no issues. Could or should this problem have been detected then? I sent an overnight letter this Monday and called again just yesterday. I again received �its Porsche�s policy that we don�t provide good will assistance on a vehicle that is out of warranty.� The CSR wouldn�t transfer me to anyone of higher authority because they aren�t allowed to. I told him that these policies sure don�t build good will with customers. This guy was a little more forceful and defensive that the first CSR I dealt with. I guest the computer told him to step it up to the next level since it was repeat call. My car will be ready either Monday or Tuesday at the latest and I�m sure they won�t let me have my car without payment and I�m not going to let them keep it while I wait on PCNA respond being its their policy to respond within 15 days of receiving a request. I sure don�t feel the love from Porsche.

If it was me, I would either personally or have a professional remove the engine and tear it down, videotaping the entire process. I would want to know EXACTLY what the problem is. If it is a cracked cylinder or bad casing, etc, I would have every confindance that Porsche would be giving me a replacement engine quite quickly, free of charge. If it turns out to be something other than a manufacture defect, then you are out a little extra money but you have piece of mind knowing you were not screwed. Porsche loves to talk people into simply replacing engines and the owner never finds out what was wrong. Greatly reduces the liability to Porsche...doesn't it? What a great YouTube posting the video would be.

First of all...sorry for your misfortune....What year is the car? Where did you purchase it? porsche dealer? Private party? Where was it serviced? Dealer? Hope PCNA steps up with some help. I ask all those questions as PCNA seems to be more loyal to those that buy from dealers and service at the dealer.

you know what..... why not just replace you engine with one of those at the junk yard with 10K miles on them....? Have you looked into those? as a matter of fact, any renn lister here tried that route? or even the ones on ebay? if you can buy a car there, why not the engine.....? i saw one recently with 18K miles on it, a 3.6L for $6K......... Good Luck

cracked casting or headgasket is generaly caused by overheating, have you had your serivces done at the delaer (have you ever been to the dealer?) what year is the car?

That is really disappointing, I feel sorry for you, and wonder if it will ever happen to me. As 1999Porsche911 said, if it's a cracked engine, I would expect PCNA to pay for it even if it's out of warranty. It's ridiculous for a $80-90k top of the line sports car from a reputable company, to fail that way. I hope you get this worked out. Good Luck! PORSCHE - There is No Substitute........ahemm...but the engine might need one.

Well if he has a 99 C2 then a 3.6 is out of the question as its ALOT of work to get it working....A remanufactured 3.4L from Porsche should be about 8k plus labor. This is the BEST route as you get all the updates from the newer cars, AND its been VERY thoroughly checked and gone through. If you are gonna spend 6k, why not 8k and get a 2 year warranty. I would be VERY leary of a low mileage 6 year old engine....just me, but that means is sat ALOT, or was driven very short distances...neither is good for an engine. There are rebuilds available for about 4k now as well....

My car is a 1999 996 C2. The car has almost 70,000 miles on it 46,000 of those miles I put on the car since buying it a little over two years ago. The car has never overheated. I�m not the original owner but I have had all the service work done at the same Porsche dealer: ignition switch, coolant tank, clutch, starter, and both the 30,000 and the 60,000 major maintenance. I have spent almost $5,000 with them since buying the car.

The dealer quoted me $13,200 total. The labor part was $3,690!

Early 99's did have some problems....and Porsche knows this. Good luck....

You spent $18K in 46K miles, which is only about 40 cents per mile --- and you get a new engine. Doesn't seem too unreasonable for a 8 year old high performance sports car.

Hopefully we are all lucky enough to buy new engines after only 46,000 miles.

good luck

What is your vehicle's production date? I'm wondering if it's an early '99 or later production. Seems I read somewhere that the later production engines were not as prone to failure as the earler ones were.

I had the same problem with mine at 53K miles - cracked cylinder #1. I took the time (and expense) to have an indy tear down the motor to find out exactly what went wrong. I took pics, and sent them to PCNA and waited from their "customer service" dept to get back to me. Don't know where you are located, but the guy who did my motor offers a one year warranty on a rebuild for around $5500 in So Cal. I feel your pain - I remember thinking "how can they be so calous as to think this is a "normal maintenance item. " In fact, I am still pissed at PCNA and their treatment of my issue resulted in my wife getting a Range Rover instead of a cayenne. I will give them no more of my business. PM me if you are near So Cal and want their number.

How could anyone consider it good luck to have no choice but to spend $13,000 on a new engine with only 69,000 miles on it? Anyone that wants to can buy a new engine. The point is that would be unacceptable for any sub $20,000 GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Dodge or Geo to have engine failure such as mine with only $69,000 miles much less a $70,000 Porsche that prides itself on high standards of quality. Lee

I would go to the dealer and talk to the service manager, ask if you can sit down with the rsm and discuss it with him the next time he is in town. If you are cordial (being loud and obnoxisious will get you no where i promise) you may be able to work something out at a reduced rate. Theres really no reason to tear it down, you may not be able to find the failure point and in the end you still need a new motor

"My car will be ready either Monday or Tuesday at the latest and I�m sure they won�t let me have my car without payment" Soooo.... you already went ahead and authorized them to bend you over to the tune of $13+K without getting a more specific diagnosis - from them OR another shop - than "gasket or cracked head"? C'mon, 996 experts: please tell me that this motor is not hand-crafted from glass and chiffon lace. I have never heard of a piston motor whose only feasible repair for either a blown headgasket or even a cracked head is total engine replacement.

How come you have never posted here before? I am starting to see what Dell was talking about. As I am sorry for this problem and I also agree an other than Dealer option may have been the best choice for you as you are out of warranty. Are they going to let you know exactlly what was wrong? Can you keep the old motor? Just curious?

How about a 3.8l from GMG Racing .....I was quoted $11,000 with a good core & includes a 1yr warranty

the thing is head replacement is going to cost 5-6k as a minumum , and it could be a case problem whic isnt really all the repairable. engines are swap out these days its more time and money effective

i expect nothing but perferction from P. i would expect my P to last easily to 200,000 miles provided regular maintenace is provided.

Here we go again. A user that has a whopping 9 posts (including this thread) posts to the board to bitch and complain that their 8 year old car with over 70K miles that they are NOT the original owner of the car and do NOT know how it was treated in the years a priori demands perfection from the car and wants a new engine from PCNA. Are you f'in kidding me? Man, I really do feel bad for you, and you have my sympathies. But you are looking at this all wrong. You just happen to be a part of the EXTREMELY small number of people that have had catastrophic engine failure and now, for only 13K you can have a BRAND NEW engine with a 2yr warranty. Sounds good to me. However, I do think they are quoting you a bit to steep. It should be in the neighborhood of 9-10K out the door for parts and labor.

I have a 2000 996, and have just replaced the engine. At 54000 miles the engine fluids intermixed, coolant in the oil and oil in the coolant. This is a problem well known to Porsche and PCNA. When Porsche changed from air cooled to water cooled engines, they outsourced the casting of the engine blocks and heads. At the same time they mixed different alloys, aluminum and magnesium. The most common failures are either bad block castings or corroded magnesium, where the metal is eaten up. This happens in the coolant paths, where eventually the fluids intermix. Every pre 2002 Boxter and 996 is a potential engine trap. Thousands of unlucky Porsche owners have over the years had to change their engines. Some are covered by the warrenty, but for those unfortunate that the warrenty is expired, PCNA admitts nothing. They even deny that the problem exist. However, due to the fact that the problem absolutely do exist, Porsche (Germany) offers the 996 3.4L engine to a subsidised price of approximately $8,000. THe whole cooling system and radiators have to be completely flushed and cleaned, and maybe even changed out. I paid $12,000 for the whole job at Pro Technik in Houston, and I'm very happy with the job. The engine is a 2006 3.4L with all the upgrades done over the years, new caastings, new alloy material in the cylinder heads, other cam shaft duration, new AC compressor and all other equipment on the engine. The only things that are not new are the fly-wheel and the cats and mufflers. Basically, the car is like new! The 3.6L engine does not fit unless you change the ECU and wiring harness. This is very expencive, plus the fact that the 3.6L engine is wice the price ot the 3.4L. For the extra 25HP it's not worth it. The fact that PCNA denies any knowledge of the above described problem, and throws all the cost on unfortunate Porsche owners, is extremely disappointing. Also the fact the PCA does not put pressure on PCNA, so that enthusiastic Porsche owners still will be loyal to Porsche, is incomprehensible. PCA should not only be an organisation that glorify Porsche, but also give aid and assistance members that are victims for a Porsche design failure. Are the links too close between PCA and PCNA, both located in Atlanta, GA?

Lee- I absolutely agree with you. The previous post was my sorry attempt at being sarcastic.... It seems to me that when you buy a used car you have to plan for repairs that you wouldn't have to make on a new car. Battery, alternator, water pump, starter, etc. come to mind. Engine and transmission wouldn't top my list. Jeff

Really? Just curious what leads you to make this claim. Pretty common? Care to define that? You make it sound like water cooled engines were "invented" starting with the water cooled M96 motor and that before that the "only" technology was the air cooled variety.

i am so sorry you are going through this.It is the main reason i have held off from upgrading.i drive an 87 911 and really love it,but think about going newer from time to time..no offence to the 99-01 owners out there,but these are the years i would stay away from..although you can pick up a 99 for under 30k,its too risky for me in my current position..i do feel that porsche should own the reponsibility for their flawed engine...regardless that it is 7 years old,this problem has happened from year 1..i suspect that 996s will continue to drop even more..you cannot warranty 99 -01..this tells me something.j

Dell, The odds may be statistically (very) small, but it's still something that can sting when it happens to a person. When I got the voicemail that my engine had blown up, I started freaking out in the instant between "you need a new engine" and "we already have one being freighted from Germany that will be covered under CPO". It's scary. That's the one concern I had when I bought this car. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking a Turbo may be in my future. I have sympathy for the OP, regardless of the number of posts. This is the sort of thing that can make a lurker into a poster. I hope the situation is resolved with minimal fuss. I have a new engine, and I have to say, the 2yr warranty is something I keep in mind all the time, and it's nice to know I've now put all the miles on this engine, Dell makes a superb point there. I wish I knew more on the subject, but as usual, Rennlisters have chimed in with very insightful expertise. Best of Luck! Justin

+1

Hey, we finally agree on something!!!! Time for us to have a drink and celebrate

Dell, as we've discussed before - if you've never had that discussion with Porsche representatives, and been given your replacement engine based on the issues they will admit to 'off the record' - then you can't really comment. You have a very fixed view that this isn't a 'real issue' - but you've never been through it yourself have you. You attempt to brow beat anyone that posts with this issue - and try and make them look like they're some sort of troll for daring to come to Rennlist for help. What the hell is wrong with someone in this position seeking help where he can find it - just because he didn't use Rennlist in the past, doesn't make him a bad person. He probably has a life and doesn't spend his hours on this forum like many of us do! You have your opinion, and that's all well and good - but you act like the engine failure police on these forums, and have zero experience to qualify you for that role. That's not a comment on the validity of this case - a 2nd user car with high mileage is a long shot with any manufacturer for sure. But you always have to take it to the next level, and try to make the case that this is a non-issue in the first place. Give it up - it's getting old.

It was only a matter of time before you chimed in. And actually it is the other way around......you need to give it up with this crusade of trying to state this is a problem of epic proprtions. That is what is getting old. You know, the more I think about it you really are a jackass. I tried to put up with your crap on the "survey" thread where I tried to shed some light on the issues that were present and for you to make the claim I am the engine police is ludicrous. I'll say it once and then hopefully it will get through to your problem stirring thick head, that this is a problem that is MAGNIFIED by the use of the internet chat board that in your mind has turned into this dirty little secret inside Porsche that they are holding back info that will prove that almost every car will have RMS problems and that there is a SIGNIFICANT number of catastrophic engine failures. This just isn't the case. Do I have sympathy (or rather empathy) for the people that have engine failure? Of course. You just choose to say, since you are not part of the blown engine club then you cannot offer comment. If that was the case, the blown engine threads would be one page long and die (pun intended) quickly.

Well, you have a very very long shot, but the odds are not good. Porsche have replaced 2nd user engines, out of warranty, for zero material cost, but usually at low mileage and where the owner has service history and Porsche buying history with the local dealership. It's down to you personally making the case to PCNA - with the help of your local dealership. PCNA make owners that receive 'free' replacement blocks out of warranty sign non disclosure agreements, so don't expect PCNA to admit to anything up front. If you really want to follow it through, the suggestions of a second opinion and maybe a tear down might be appropriate, but that's your call. I've seen someone with a salvage title rebuilt '98 986 get a 'free' new engine when he had intermix failure out of warranty (That was in 2005). And I've seen someone 'force' the issue by arranging for the failed engine to be stripped down and documented for a motoring magazine to publish - a new engine was forthcoming shortly afterwards. So best of luck - let us all know how it goes.

Dell, I'm sure we all appreciate you bringing this down to the level of name calling. Way to go - your command of the language is inspiring, and you set a great example to others. Your bullying techniques are on show again for all to see. Best of luck.

Not name calling just explaining in plain english to somebody like you that is really stubborn. No bullying tactics but then again you can state and claim anything until you are blue in the face. We all know how much you really contribute to this forum. Once again, time to unsubscribe to another engine thread since people like you have no clue but enjoy the mindless banter about the theory's you really have that are so unfounded. Thanks for wishing of luck, however I do not need it. Luck is for people that hope for something they have no ability to do on their own. I am very confident in my abilities as well as my FACTS that I have tried to get across to you. But then again, I am not allowed to comment anymore since I do not have a replaced engine. So, with that said, enjoy hanging here with the fellowship of the miserable. I'm off

wow..nice guy..

Again Dell - you try to bully by making statements like You have great knowledge to share with the users of this forum, and it's a shame that this cannot be done without you using these tactics when someone challenges your viewpoint. As I said, best of luck.

"Little extra money"??? You're kidding right?

I'm only going to say this once and then be done with you. If I am at fault I will be the FIRST person to apologize and move on. I have no problem with that. But for you to attack my credibility when I try explain to you that your points are clearly not with empirical basis is just wrong. Then I try to explain why a survey (Boxster) you thought was so great in highlighting a problem was so flawed and the reason why, you attack my credibility again. If you cannot support your stance with anything other than anecdotal eveidence then you are no better or worse prepared to argue this than somebody just coming here for the first time. Apparently you just don't get it and I for one am now officially bored with you and your "I know you are but what am I" comebacks. Have fun.

I can sympathize with the engine failure issue. My 2004 engine failed at 5k miles. I can indeed also totally understand the feeling when you call PNCA for some assistance and get the "we will repond to you in 7-10 days". WTF. They simply just hope you go away and do not rock their boat. Anyone who has paid 50-80k for this car only have an engine fail, get little to no explanation as to why, then have them tell you they will get back to you in a week or so, will indeed be left with a bitter taste over their Porsche experience. You simply expect more from the company whose car you have invested your money, and hear into. You should expect when spending this kind of money on one of their cars that they love to tell you how great they are that you can be treated with a bit of urgency when you need something. You would think they would have the courtesy to return a phone call. You would think they would actually consider the feelings of loyal customers. Instead they hope you go away. They admit no fault even when it is clear their design is a POS (RMS). It is frustrating and I have been there with them on a brand new car that has never been tracked, was purchased new, driven daily, never redlined or abused only to have an engine failure at 5k miles. I love the car, and since the new engine the car has been nothing but a joy to drive. However, the process, attitude and tactics of the company will certainly give me great pause when I go to buy my next car in a few years. Good luck with the new engine. They are great, and I am sure the car will be fine afterwards. I ceratainly understand fully the frustration of the process. Fortunately for me I did not have to experience paying for the engine in my case since my car is still under warranty. Still you lose confidence in the company and car when you have to so easily replace the engine. There may be really only a small percentage of the total engines that fail, but it seems there are enough that it is never really a sruprise.

wow..really nice guy

For the record, I have personal experience with 2 engine failures, and personal friends here in San Diego that have an additional 2 engine failures on cars from 1997 through 2001. These are catastrophic failures, nothing to do with RMS. I am speaking from personal experience, and I am not generalizing in any way. I am sharing this personal experience with forum members, including details on how PCNA reacted to such incidents, and the information they shared 'off the record'. This is useful and relevant to the discussion, and may benefit others.

trust me guys............i see rms leaks, but really the new seal has all but eliminated them, i have only seen a few new style seals leaking, no longer an issue engines blow up, yeah it happens but not all that often, and surely not as often as people like to think they do. , we see 200 cars a week trhough here, and i would be amazed if we do more then 25-30 a year which isnt much statisticly

isnt the 3.6l just a bored out 3.4l... as I understand it the engine machining process changed over mid 2000... so mid-year 2000s, and on have the newer process.

I just read 2 articles on Porsche engine durability. One explained how the engine blew up in the first 10,000 miles, the other talked about a Porsche with 200,000 miles of trouble free operation. Therefore, statistically (and I am sure Dell will back me up on this one), it is clear that 50% of the Porsche engines will blow up. Also, one engine was a 3.4 and the other was a 3.6, so I have to assume that, statistically, you would have to have a 3.5 engine to properly minimize the risk?

+2 As a side note you have a perfect example why the "engine problem" threads are statistical BS. Here you have an owner who barely took the time to discuss his car on this forum until..............wait for it.....................he had a problem. How many Porsche owners are out there, blissfully unaware that this type of "forum" for owners even exists. They are just enjoying the car and loving life. The majority of "them" will never have a problem and never even look for this place. However, many of those who do actually have problems will be angry. They will turn to the internet for research and end up here............in a "Porsche stinks and here's why" type of thread. Every car message board I have ever visited has these threads. No car manufacturer (not even the often praised Toyota) is excluded.

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You forgot that "statistically" (based on your info above) you should expect your engine to blow at 105,000 miles.

Huh? 40 cents a mile ONLY for car maintenance. With Depreciation, Insurance and Gas ... probably more like $1.40 a mile BTW for reference, when I use my car for company business, they reimburse at 40 cents a mile (to include everything: gas, insurance, maintenance, depreciation).

99firehawk - As you can see, I'm not making any claims about numbers, frequency, etc. I have however seen PCNA give away new engines, for free, with non-disclosure agreements, based on manufacturing issues with 'earlier' engines. Even ones substantially out of warranty. How ever infrequent it might be, catastrophic engine failure that is a direct result of sub-standard manufacture and/or quality control, should be an issue where the owner can and should get protection and assistance from the manufacturer. Whether it's a Porsche or a MINI. I'm not saying that the sky is falling in - I'm not saying all Porsches are bad. Hell, I went and bought myself a 996 this year! But I did listen to what I'd been told during the engine failure exchanges with PCNA, and I made a point of buying an 03 996 to lower my exposure to any potential QC issues.

Jeff, No problem. I have replaced the battery, starter, RMS, coolant tank, clutch and the ignition switch. I figured that I would be spending about $3,000 per year for repairs and maintenance, but not an engine replacement. On the bright side I am going to have a new never used engine. I�m excited! Lee

I am not a User but a Rennlist member, my membership number is 050315-5904. I don�t know why User shows up under my name instead of Rennlist member. I haven�t many posts because as my pappy told me �You learn by listening and reading� so I�ve been a learnin lurker. I will endeavor to contribute more. For an additional $2,700 I can keep the old engine and to find out what caused it I would have to pay for that privilege. My opinion for what it�s worth is that there are a lot more engine problems/failure out there. As is the case most with me most of the time when I have a problem with a product I don�t complain I just stop using the product. Not in this case, but I am getting a new engine! Thanks for everyone�s input and have a great day! Lee,

+1 My two cents, if you are afraid of maintenance or replacement engine costs own 2 928's for over 15 years That made this look pretty tame

Thanks Brad, as usual your posts are very informative. It is very good to know that the new RMS seals are so effective. Also, I cannot believe the SMALL percentage of cars that you service which are there because of engine failure. I am not questioning your numbers, I am just amazed at them. Your figures equate to about 0.0025% of the cars serviced needing an engine replacement. YES THAT IS ONE QUARTER OF ONE PERCENT. If this isn't statistically insignificant I don't know what is. Granted of the roughly 10,000 cars that come through Brads shop every year only a small pecentage of these are 996, but the numbers are startling nonetheless.

Unlike most of you, I don't know the statistics on blown engines but when I had my intake and Giac installed at the dealership there was a blown engine they were ready to ship back to PCNA. The mechanic says "yeah, some engines have blown but yours should be ok". LOL!

Frankly, basing ANYTHING on one shop servicing one location is hardly accurate.

At least now you can sleep better at night.

I never said that I was basing anything on these figure, they are what they are and I am sure everyone on here with an ounce of intelligence knows this. I was simply stating the case that these numbers are very interesting, which they are, I was not insinuating that people should base their warranty decisions based on these numbers

The simple fact is this: There are too many engine failures. I don't care if the percentages "seem" low. Look at and compare these 2 threads: On this 996 thread that I started, all of the engine rebuilds or replacement engines had 80,000 miles or less: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/317888-highest-mileage-996-who-s-got-the-highest-mileage-car.html On this 911 thread I started, all of the engine rebuilds or replacement engines had more than 80,000 miles on them: https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/315970-highest-mileage-911-who-s-got-the-highest-mileage-car.html Combined with the write-ups in other forums, as well as white papers on the subject, there is no denying the issue, however small and insignificant the numbers are. That said, I am not surprised. The 996 and Boxster are first-generation models with new engine designs. It should be understood that these models will suffer from reliability at the expense of Porsche sticking their neck out to try something new, something better. The only thing that bothers me is the way Porsche's reputation is changing and how Porsche is responding to that change. I don't want Porsche to end up where Jaguar is.

All I know is that I put more pressure on my little old 99 C2 engine than a stage 3 TT and so far she has absolutely no problems. When she blows...she blows. If I wanted to eliminate all risk of engine blowing, I would ride a horse. Here's a better poll: How many 996's that had internal engine problems were running Mobil Water?

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Honestly this is what bothered me more than the 5k mile sblown engine. It was their attitude and the manner in which they went about dealing with me that pissed me off more than the engine itself. Hell most companies are going to more component replacement than repair. I know BMW is doing more and more engine replacement than engien repairs, Porsche, and others as well. I think the issues festers and pisses people off because Porsche treats them as though they do not matter. It is more a customer care issue than the actual defective engine issue. At least it was for me. Certainly I was concerned about the long term affect of m car going forward, but really I have warranty until 2011 so I am not that concerned. I would not have thought much of it at all had Porsche simply given me some answers, and had some sense of urgency in dealing with me and my issue.

It is inevitable that Porsche WILL go the way a Jaguar. Their goal, now, is to maximize profit by marketting to the masses and taking shortcuts in quality. The only saving grace for them is that most of their competition is doing the same.....meaning that, although Porsche will not be the quality sports car they once were, they wil be among the better ones by today's lower standards. Rather than raising their standards to stay near the top, Porsche will stay there because industry standards will continue to be lowered. i.e: If you are the top student in a class of morons.....you're still a moron.

Spot on! The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind.

As statistics and odds go (and I will be glad to pull some statistics out of my *** if you need me too ) it seems to me that it is incredibly unlikely that one person would go through two engine failures on the same car due to a fault in the engine. So, my question is, at what point does a rational person start to wonder, hey, maybe it ain't the car? Oh sure, you can say "I never tracked it and I don't abuse it" but the term "abuse" means many different things to many people. Heck, maybe it was that one time you ran it up to 5600 RPM when the engine wasn't warm yet. Or that fifty-seven times you bounced it off of the rev-limiter? Or the 602 times you floored the accelerator but short-shifted it to "save the engine"? Or maybe you just didn't break the engine in properly? Or, you used the wrong oil. Or you let your wife drive it that one Sunday... So that's just a thought that I'm sharing. Personally, I think that any engine failure in a car of this price and presumed quality before 100,000 miles is unacceptable. However, in the real world, I know that **** happens. I was one of the lucky many who had the nakasil engine block replaced by BMW. BMW did step up to the plate and admit fault and replace the blocks affected and extended the warranties, but for the first several thousand people who experienced the problems, I'm sure they went through hell to get there. And those series of cars still have the worst resale values. I'm not trying to make any point here - I'm just trying to make an observation that there are a lot of unknowns and unanswered questions. No one here knows for sure about anything. And I'm sure of that statistic. Michael

I like that one, Dell.

Michael, one engine on each car, a '97 and a '99. I drove one, my wife still drives the other. 9,000 miles before failure on the '97, less than 8,000 miles on the '99 Both had new engines under warranty from Porsche, no issues when they pulled the redline stats etc from the on-board systems. Both were dead before their first scheduled services. They were just poorly manufactured engines. The '99 now has 75,000 miles on the clock, with my wife driving it every day. I sold the '97 at 35,000 miles, having had no further issues, and now have an 03 996 C2 - which I've yet to break! Chris.

Well, I think we have officially beat this horse enough. Time to get the martini fixings out

The same happen to my engine. Coolant in the oil and oil in the coolant. The Porsche service manager said it was likely the oil/water heat exchanger when I first report it but it turns out to be either the head or head gasket. Maybe it was something else. I don�t think I will ever find out for sure and that�s a pity. Part of the $13,200 was to remove the radiators to flush them and to flush all the coolant lines. I�m trying to remain positive that either way I will be getting a new (remanufactured) engine with all the upgrades but as I said earlier �I don�t feel the love form Porsche.�

One last thing. I love Pcars. I love washing them, driving them, waxing them looking at them....... I do not consider them cheap to maintain but neither is a Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo..... So every car I want to own is not as reliable or cheap to maintain as my daughters Honda or my wifes Lexus. That is OK with me because....I love these cars....... The Honda may be a better car for you, not me and I am willing to pay the difference. PCNA has always been this way with customers, always from my experiences of 25 years and many friends in the business. Somehow they have managed to become one of the most profitable car companies in the business with this long term attitude. I still love their cars. So just like everything in life you make a choice. Bitching about it will only wear you out. Meaning, decide what you want and live with the consequences. They are what they are

Lee.....I have to commend you on your incredible composure during this ordeal. SUre hope that new engine gives you many years of driving enjoyment. As for the oil exchanger, did they tell you that was something this that could fall under preventative maintenace or rather when it goes, it goes type of part? Something to think about for the rest of the M96 motor group to have looked into during a checkup.

You make very good points, but I can't help remembering my Mom's 87 Acura Legend. That car was redlined so many times and was almost flat out abused by just about every member of my family and countless friends. The engine always ran fine, and we only changed the oil and timing belt on that engine. The definition of a "bulletproof engine" means that it should be able to take that abuse.

See my post about the Acura Legend that we abused.

Rather than raising their standards to stay near the top, Porsche will stay there because industry standards will continue to be lowered. Based on everything that I have read, the quality of cars today has risen and risen rather dramatically over the past decade, rather than fallen as your post would suggest. Notwithstanding all of the anecdotal info about failed engines on this forum, Porsche still is either at the top or near the top of every quality report that I've read. The J D Powers report for 2006 for example has the Porsche Cayman S as the car with the fewest reported quality problems on new cars, and other Porsche models were also at or near the top. To me this is a remarkable accomplishment when you consider that Porsche builds very high performance engines as compared to the detuned transportation appliances manufactured by Toyota and Honda.

Quote: "One last thing. I love Pcars. I love washing them, driving them, waxing them looking at them....... I do not consider them cheap to maintain but neither is a Ferrari, Maserati, Lambo....." This statement concerns me a little, in this particular context. Pcars may not be cheap to maintain, but let's say the percentage of engine failures is 0.0025% as one poster suggested. Or heck, let's say it's 100 times that at 0.250%. At any of these percentages (and indeed, many more both higher and especially lower), one doesn't need to include "engine replacements" as part of maintenance. I say I can afford Pcar maintenance (and am willing to do so) because I don't include "I could be hit for $13k in repairs at any moment" as part of ownership (obviously each of us will have a tolerance for risk that decides at what point we will). I'm not saying one should be prepared to do so, I'm saying that it seems mildly condescending to say "Drive a Honda if you can't pony up $13k when something goes wrong". I love washing, driving and (occasionally!) waxing, and even looking at Pcars too, and I would even if I couldn't afford it Justin

PCNA might have been this way for 25 years but this didn't make Porsche successful. Some time ago I was totally pissed on Porsche of Tysons, VA for keeping my car for almost 1 week and not even look at it, no call - nothing and keep in mind they should be one of their 25 US premier dealers! So I wrote a fax to Porsche Customer Service in Germany and got an e-mail reply within 24 hours, referring to PCNA and that they will get back to me on this matter. Guess what: to date no word from them. Porsche is a German car and PCNA just sells them.

When the Porsche service manager told me it could be the oil/water heat exchanger I did some research (lurking on forums) and found that there been a few failures. He said failure of this part was rare but not as rare as a head gasket failure which could be my problem but I probably will never know. A rubber diaphragm that separates the oil and water fail somehow allowing coolant in the oil and oil in the coolant. This isn�t a part that normally needs maintenance or replacement according to the service manager. Thanks,

A couple of things cross my mind as I read this thread. One is that owning one of these is like having the most affordable house in an expensive neighbourhood. Just because it's an "affordable" exotic, doesn't mean we get off the hook from the risks and expenses of driving an exotic. Doesn't excuse Porsche, but it is a low volume car. I'll never forget meeting Eiji Toyoda once. He talked about why (at the time) Hondas ran well but fell apart, and Toyotas didn't. The Japanese weren't inclined to be direct in their insults, but he said, "a Civic and a Corolla sell for the same amount of money, yet Toyota buys ten times as much steel as Honda does. How can the two cars cost the same?" Point being, small is small, and it comes at a cost, sometimes to quality. The other thing is that I fear Porsche's BMW and Mercedes-envy. BMW in particular has the best margins in the car business, most years, and both have a vehicle in most segments of the market. Look at Porsche: First, an affordable roadster, then an SUV, next a sedan. They've got volume fever, but it's going to hurt for awhile for owners while they figure it out. I guess I just think you have to love these things to drive them. They don't stand up to reason, otherwise. They can't. The economics aren't there. And owners can't let the current affordability of 996s blind them to that fact. Anyway, sorry about rambling. Bored. Wife isn't here yet, and her martinis are better than mine....

Dell, on several occasions I too have observed that you come down like a ton of bricks on people who talk about engine failures on early 996's/ Boxsters. I actually agree with Chris in mentioning that Rennlist is a free place to post and share our experiences , good or bad. Rleeq did not post a fantasy, he had a fact and a very valid question to ask. Usually when there is smoke there is fire. While it is very true that not all 996/Boxsters have engine failures or are ticking bombs, it is a fact that engine failures have been reported and experienced. Heck I have even seen a 2000 996 blow up its engine right in front of me on a DE at TWS 3 years ago! You like it or not such engine failures are not something that any other Porsche model pre 1997 have experienced! I have owned Porsche cars since 1990 and in reality high mile examples up until I could afford almost new Porsche's since 1997. Never in my experience have an engine grenade the way some 996/Boxsters do. Heck, check the other Porsche model boards and find a relatively low mile engine reported blown. You won't. It is NOT a coincidence for sure and it cannot be attributed to the drivers. Did Porsche mess up? Most likely. Maybe higher tolerances etc were accepted and therefore the risk grew. Its certainly no coincidence that your GT3 has the core of a 964. Having said all that, is it Porsche responsibility? If we are talking about engines over 100K I think it would be very far fetched, but for lower mileage I think Porsche should step up to the plate and make the owners whole. If nothing else to built rapport with the ownership base. That alone is worth a ton of marketing dollars. If they accepted the higher tolerances, read a higher risk, they should bare that burden, not the owners. Just my 02.

But that is the way it is and all the ranting in the world isn't going to change it. Sorry

The other thing is that I fear Porsche's BMW and Mercedes-envy. BMW in particular has the best margins in the car business, I believe it's the other way around. Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world. BMW is #2.

Maybe you need a bit of correction. I have NEVER come down on somebody for having a failed engine. What I come down on people for is the "educate" their ignorance to the world of fundamental statistics. Sure, there are going to be engine failures and RMS leaks, etc, etc, etc, but to come here for the sole reason but to bitch about a problem that "Porsche has to know about" or that "Porsche is not accepting responsiblity" or "Porsche pretends it doesn't exist" etc etc etc just gets very tiresome. Never having facts to support their claim of "it's very common for these engines to grenade" or "this is a well know fact"......etc etc etc, is something that YOU and others in the blown engine camp never seem understand. When you have the facts please let me know. The posting are usually by a new person that has done nothing for this board......never contributed to the board through exhanges of ideas, never contributed through supporting the site, never done anything EXCEPT come here to complain about how crappy the Porsche 9X6 is and how Porsche needs to stand behind cars that are as far past the warranty as 3-4 years. Where would you have Porsche set the warranty line? The number of times these threads gets posted up is very minimal but they generate ALOT of heat from both sides. Do I feel for the guy in this thread? Absolutely. I hate to see anybody in the P-Car community have a "speed bump" along the way of ownership. But the vast moajority of posters that have had the blown engine (except for the OP in this thread) take ZERO responsibility and have the "fu@k Porsche" attitude when coming here to complain. Not to mention it usually is somebody that has NO IDEA what the previous owner(s) did when they owned the car. Unless you are the original owner, treated the car with respect, maintained it flawlessly, NEVER blew past 4K before warm, etc, etc ,etc, then you really need to take you gripe up with the previous owner(s) not Porsche. I would be happy to enlist my services for FREE to crunch a data set this large that PCNA must have in file of ALL the 9X6 models sold and their history and then prepare a FULL report detailing the prevalence of major issues in the line as well be the first to offer a mea culpa if all the anecdotal theories of the past were really valid. Let me know when you get the data file so I can get to work. Until then, happy motoring

That's funny but don't forget about the Twin Turbo Supra and Acura NSX which are pretty reliable and high performance.

I said "most years", and I've got some data from Business Week on this which I can access on Monday. BMW has suffered in the last couple of years for the cost of new model introductions, but over the last decade they've led the pack. As for "most profitable", I'd say that even if Porsche have the best per unit margins once in awhile, there is no way they're most profitable. Their volume is too low.

"Profit" is often described/defined as a ratio (margin) i.e. gains to capital investment. Not to be confused with revenues, which would reflect volumes as well as margins.

Automatically you classify me on the "blown engine camp" You see that is part of your problem. If you read carefully my post, you will see that I'm not part of the fantasy camp that you have created in your mind. You tend to assume things about this issue and this is not correct. I do not belong to a "camp" I just agnowledge the fact that there have been engine failures! if that is 10 or 1000 it does not matter. The fact remains that 996/Boxster engines HAVE failed , some for the exact same reason! Why it is so difficult for you to agnowledge this? Why its is difficult to you to understand that engine failures on any Porsche model other than 996/Boxsters are non existent under the same parameters? While you may have heard of the same issue over and over , for newbies especially they have not. Writing on a Porsche forum and venting after you have a serious problem like an engine failure is normal. We as older Rennlisters should support each other and offer from our experience solutions, not chastise them. Like I said above, no one needs to contribute to report an issue. Most of the times the Rennlist membership grows out of despair over a technical problem that an owner experience. They do not know Rennlist. They do a search on the Internet for the solution or the problem itself and voila, Rennlist with the biggest audience comes up on the first page, they click and they decide that this is the right place for them too... As I said above its our obligation to help and educate in a calm and understanding manner. Its like working at the front desk of a Hotel. As a clerk how many times have you heard about the same problem over and over again. You have to smile and show understanding because for the person complaining its their first time they experience that problem. As to drawing the line, I offered you my thoughts on this. However I do have another very similar example for you that show Porsche attitude towards "issues that don't exist". You most likely are not aware of them since you joined Rennlist on October of 2003, but in 2001 a Rennlister called "EJ" drove through Rennlist a campaign on behalf of all of us against Porsche to recognize that our wiring harness on our 993's at least for the model year 1995 were problematic and potentially dangerous. Back then very few people on Rennlist have reported issues with their wiring harness, the car stopping dead on its tracks for no reason, the dash board lighting like a Christmas tree and the engine dying, a couple even reported engine fires which the harness was a suspect. When I say a few I mean it. I did not have any problems with my harness. Never the less, the crusade was for cars that were well past their warranties, high mile examples etc. Did Porsche recognize it? Hell no! At first they gave the same cold shoulder and EJ even went to NHTSA . As a result Porsche finally after so many years, they did recognize it and issued a recall on most 993's to have their harness inspected for a particular harness part number. It turns out that EJ and the others were right... One of their subcontractors who supplied the harness, used substandard material therefore the harness could crack, live wire spark and potentially cause an engine fire...The majority of the Rennlisters with a 993 did not have a problem. Did that fact alone made the harness issue not valid??? Porsche's reaction was complete denial at first.... So how do you explain 1st owners reporting engine failures within a few thousand miles? This issue is not new on Rennlist and it goes well before you or I joined Rennlist. So back then the cars were not actually older as they are now. You or I may never know the extend of the issue. The majority of 996 owners in this world are not on Rennlist to report it, like I said I know of one person who is not a Rennlister and had his engine blown, therefore the only data that would be valid to determine the issue factually it is to find out from Porsche how many 996/ Boxster engines they had to replace vs their production figures. I'm afraid though that they are not going to release these figures. So what about the 996 owners here? What are they to do? I would say that while it is our duty as Rennlisters to point out that this is not normal ( in a calm manner), it would not be a bad idea to direct them to Porsche to complain. They have absolutely nothing to loose. For all of us and I sincerely hope that you will understand and agree, as older Rennlisters we are actually the ambassadors on this site. It is up to us to welcome newbies and help them, no matter what. It is easy to spot trolls and do away with them, but not all newbies deserve a harsh criticism from us.

Noted.

DJF1 - Danny : Very well said! This is the kind of attitude and character that gains respect from all.

EDIT: I read the whole thread. Danny - exactly my sentiments. Verbose but well put. You're the man ! I really feel bad that Porsche isn't standing by their own engine design. They can always read the onboard computer to look for abusive driving before rejecting/denying any claims. I kinda feel bad for the original poster ... but if I can say something positive, why not drop in the powerful 3.8L engine (someone recommended earlier in this thread) for a lesser price ? Might justify the $$$ although yes - it'd be a "forced" upgrade ! I've heard other stories too that Porsche USA is down in the dumps when it comes to customer support compared to Porsche Germany. I wish it were otherwise

Actually, to an accountant, profit and margin are two different things. Margin is one kind of profit, but when the word profit is used alone it is not generally interpreted to mean margin. It's just the delta between cost and revenue. I always have to be careful about this when dealing with my company's accountants... they're so ****. So, strictly speaking, the "most profitable car company in the world" is probably Japanese because a company like Toyota would make the most money, the most "gross operating profit", ie what the shareholders get to put in their pocket. What we were debating is what car company has the biggest margins, which I think of as the difference between the cost of building and marketing the car and the price it sells for in the marketplace. I'm sorry if I wasn't precise about that. Capital investment means something different thing again. "Profit" on capital investment is usually referred to as capital gains, where the word profit generally applies to what is earned on operating income. Capital investment, in fact, affects operating income as amortization. So, for example, building a factory is a "capital investment". GAAP and tax law both say that you can't write that all off in one year; you have to amortize it over several. So a portion of that investment is treated as an expense each year, and deducted from your operating income to produce a profit number. The cost of building the factory is never applied directly to sales. The factory sits on a balance sheet as an asset, and the amortization of it is annually added to the cost of doing business. When a company is being evaluated for its profit potential or for its value such as in a sale or merger situation, however, things like amortization are taken out of the calculation, producing another kind of "profit" called EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization). In reality, when the big dogs are discussing profitability, it's EBITDA that gets their attention. Asleep yet? I usually am by this time... or my head has exploded... and all the while, I'm paying these pri*cks $450 an hour...

WW has repeatedly referred to Porsche as "the most profitable automaker in the world". Enterpret that anyway you wish, but he is clearly not stating that Porsche has larger revenues than all other automakers. Such a statement would clearly be just plain silly.

When a company is being evaluated for its profit potential or for its value such as in a sale or merger situation, however, things like amortization are taken out of the calculation, producing another kind of "profit" called EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization). In reality, when the big dogs are discussing profitability, it's EBITDA that gets their attention. In the stock market you always hear about companies that show a nice earnings per share but in reality are losing money because of all of the accounting gimicks that are permitted. One infamous example is the old Lucent Technologies which showed hundreds of millions of dollars as earnings that they received from their pension investments. Couple that with the huge tax writeoffs that they received from the Fed, and their accountants were able to make an unprofitable company appear to be profitable. I'm to the point right now were the primary thing I want to know is a company's cash flow. How much did they have in the current qrt and how does that compare to prior qrts.

You're right. A good valuator would ask that question for sure. I was thinking like a seller (I own an ad agency). We're all about the multiple, baby.

There is only one way to measure the performance of a company and that is: NET worth (with no consideration of stock value; if any). Do they have more money in their pocket today, and by how much more, than yesterday. As far as how the stock market values a company.....it is NOT based on fundamentals or any other concrete measurement but purely on speculation. The stock market is not about what IS, but what is expected.

No argument about the stock market. You're spot on. My comments about value were those of someone who owns a private company that he might one day exit via private sale. I respectfully disagree, though, with your 'net worth' comment. A company's asset value could increase independent of its profit performance, I guess, but most of the time value is determined according to a company's ability to reliably generate cash. Even divorce lawyers look at company valuation that way, unless the company is going to be liquidated. 'Net worth' is a misnomer, here. Every company's balance sheet nets to zero, and tax law demands that every company empty the till every year (retained earnings aside, and even these must eventually be distributed as dividends). Anyway, that aside, there are countless companies out there with very little hard asset value that are still worth millions or billions. And that value comes from their ability to generate cash. Anyhooo, Porsches are more fun than accounting.

The fact is, if net value does not increase, it does not matter if your cashflow increases 1000 fold, you are losing money. Net value talks ALL things into considerationand is a net of all assets and liabilities. There is not a more pure measurment of a company or individual's current financial position. There is no way that a company, whose net value has declined can ever be considered to be growing. Asset value is not a measurement of net value. As far as the balance sheet netting to zero, look closely at what one of the 3 parts of a balance sheet calculation. That is where the gorwth or loss is made up. But...we digress.

Hey hey hey...Can we talk about something that doesn't give me a headache How about OIL

As I understand it, the claim of "most profitable" is the result of comparing Porsche's net profit per car to any other car manufacturer's net profit per car. I agree with the post that Porsche's small size precludes it from achieving anywhere near what the large companies earn in total dollars.

Thanks Chris. Now maybe you understand my confusion - from what you wrote earlier it seemed that you had two engines in one car, or rather, I "assumed" that was the case. And now we have OFFICIAL documentation that this has happened to a non-996 car!! Yes ladies and gentlmen, a 993 blew up!!! Oh mah gawd! This just blows all those other theories all to crap, doesn't it? Good thing it was posted on this board and not on the air-cooled forum. It might start to chip away at their feelings of superiority. Michael

Is it possible that in an effort to warm a car up in a cold climate that some of these indiviuals feel a need to start the car & take it to 5 grand & hold it there while sitting in the driveway.......

The fact is, if net value does not increase, it does not matter if your cashflow increases 1000 fold, you are losing money. Net value talks ALL things into considerationand is a net of all assets and liabilities. There is not a more pure measurment of a company or individual's current financial position. As a former Engineer and a present Engineering Manager, accounting is not my game, but it seems to me that you are presenting an academic argument that would not apply to the majority of companies. Although I imagine that it's possible for a company to significantly increase cash flow and lose net value, I would expect that companies with robust cash flow and that offer goods and services in growing areas, would in the vast majority of cases increase their net value, provided of course that the cash flow is ongoing and not just a one time event. The exceptions of course would be those companies that are engaged in businesses that are dieing. They could keep their costs down by force management reductions, and as the business dies quarter over quarter they could still generate a good cash flow. Cisco to me is a good example of a company with a robust cash flow and of course an outstanding net value. Lucent would be a good example of a company with negative cash flow and of course a declining net value.

Both the '97 and the '99 were 986s, the '97 was bought and run in the UK, the '99 in the US. Who mentioned a 993?

It doesn�t get cold here. Nevertheless in my case I always let the car warm up before pushing the engine.

I don�t know if Porsche is the �most Profitable� but I reminded PCNA is my response letter to their response/rejection letter where it was stated that they are �unable� to assist me with my engine failure that according to Porsche�s Annual Report 2005/06 their EBIT was $2,726,000,000 on sales of $9,397,000,000. That is a profit of 29%! Wow!!!

They make a pretty penny on each one of these toys.

They make enough to give everone a free engine !!

Where are the Porsche engineers on Rennlist? Do they not hang out here? It would seem appropriate to have a spokesperson for Porsche on such a prominent forum.

These 9M6 engines are prone to failures, for some reason Porsche used the "old" bloc to make the 996 Turbo and GT3 reliable, those engines cost more than double a 9M6 engine costs, those are indeed the real bullet proof Porsche engines. Ever since 1998 I�ve been seeing so many blown 9M6 engines that It doesn�t surpise me anymore, sad but true. Shame on you Porsche. J.Seven

Based on the non disclosure agreements that Porsche put in front of customers during out of warranty engine replacements - I would expect that a Porsche engineer would not be saying anything about any engine failures. At least, not if he wanted to stay employed.

Flipside.....Those 993 engines required expensive rebuilds like 10k....thats a completely new engine....I have seen M96 engines at 170k+ miles....so some are reliable.....

I wish I had a positive update to share with the group but I don�t. I�m getting the silent treatment from Porsche. Their rejection letter stated that they will give no further consideration to the matter. I surrender! The failure is probably due to the thin oil Porsche uses anyway. I now have 1000 miles on the engine and plan to change the oil myself. What oil should I use?

*sigh*

Sorry that he update wasn't happier ( Rest assured It's not the oil, more likely it's poor QC and/or design leading to premature failure. Just use the specified Porsche approved lube and change yourself early and often.

I recognize your garage layout. Right off of 5 in North County. Carlsbad. South Carlsbad.

Uh oh - stalker! What you been doin' around my hood then Brendan?

Yes there are few examples running with those miles, but with their second or third engine like this one . 996 engine with 258000Km with second engine J.Seven

Or this one with 273000Km also running with second engine. another J.Seven

Ruh roh. You tried to "steel" their picture. Hmmm. I wonder what their car is made up of, steal perhaps? Is English really a second language to so many people, or are they all just really, you know, STUPID? Anyway, sorry to read that Porsche is being so difficult. That sucks. Michael

Actually I posted the picture there. This is long term test made by a magazine. They had in 2000, a 996 Carrera that blew the engine with few miles. In 2003, their 996 C4S long term test car, also blew the engine with few miles too. What a desgrace this engine is. If anyone is interested I can send this aticle to be posted here. J.Seven

Same thimg with the M3 engines I guess.....you are looking at like 500,000 cars including Boxsters....there are NOT 500,000 engine failures.....There are Boxsters with ORIGINAL engine and 170k miles on it running perfectly....others with 110k, those are the ones I know of.... https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hlight=mileage https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...t=high+mileage https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hlight=mileage those are just a few threads i have seen with mileage numbers and 996's...this does not include 986's.....Its really not that bad of a problem given the numbers sold.....you will hear about it more here because by nature people post NEGATIVE things.....how many times do you see....75k and nothing wrong with my car.....NEVER...

I was at a client's Condo/Townhouse across your street several months ago, and funny enough I think I saw you washing your red 986. Do you recall seeing a Grey or black (can't remember which one I had then) 928 several months ago?

Well I'm the hunt for a 996, and have zeroed in on a MY99 C2 which by all accounts has had all the right service and owners. The car has 125K kilometres (I'm in Canada, that's 78000 miles) and has had major services done, a new clutch and flywheel, and seals done, even though it was not strictly necessary. So I called up the service manager at our local Porsche dealership, a Porsche award winning guy, and he knows the car and owner well. I ask what the liklehood was of experiencing the known engine failures, ie how may engine replacements has he done for: 1) cylinder walls - not really a big problem 2) head gaskets - ditto, some but not chronic. 3) intermediate shaft bearing - well yeah but... 4) intermediate shaft sprocket pin - no comment, kind of a lot, carreras and boxsters - yep. I get the feeeling there were hundreds if not thousands of engines replaced at this dealership for intermediate shaft issues. I also get the feeling that it is not a question of "if" the M96 motor in this 1999 model will fail, but when. OK - basically I'll have to budget for an engine replacement with any early 996 I buy, or look for a car with a new engine already. For the record, the car I'm after is firmly priced at (the equivalent of) $30K USD. And no, I don't expect Porsche to buy me a new engine. It's an eight year old car.

The way I see it is that if you want an early 996, go for it. Porsche had teething issues on this car, understandably, because it was pretty much the first time they went liquid on the flat-6. I would budget for a replacement engine just in case, but that should mean that you get the car at a discount. I would buy a higher mileage car to save some money.

Ah haaaaaaa - I think I may remember that. I'll go back and check the surveillance tapes... There are a few P cars around the area, but only one red 986 that I'm aware of. I appologise retrospectively for my 'scruffy car wash look' while I was detailing the Boxster I know I looked like that when you saw me, because I always do when I'm in detailing mode Can't tell you the number of times people have pulled their cars over and asked me to come down the road to do their car next...

This is a scary thread!! I've had my current 944S2 for 4 years, and the only "issue" that tends to kill these water cooled 16valvers is the cam chain tensioner breaking, bending the valves and causing many thousands in repair bills. There have been several posts on the 944 forum complaining about this tensioner issue, and, like in this thread, dissing Porsche for their poor design (it really is insane - entire engine relies on two small pieces of plastic that the chain rides on), and for the fact that they NEVER recommended the tensioner be changed in any of the manuals. I remember before I bought my car, reading scary threads about valves bending, chains breaking and exploding under the cam cover, etc. When bought it I drove the car up from Virginia, with the thought of replacing the tensioner before the drive! I was that spooked by all the threads like this one! Turns out I was fine. I replaced the tensioner a few days later. The plastic guides were pretty groved and brittle, but the car ran fine. Now there is a new unit guiding the chain, and the engine can probably go for another 100k. The scary part about this thread though, is the fact that the M96 motor has actually blown up with very few miles on it, due to design, and not due to lack of maintenance (like not changing the tensioner after XX amount of miles)! There is no part to replace, no preventative steps to take - it can just let go. Yikes. Sorry for resurecting this old thread..but it's out there!! Damn you, search function!