weight difference of C4 cab vs C2 coupe?

Approximately how much more does a C4 cab weight then a C2 coupe (MY99 to 01)? I realize they have very different characteristics overall, but does the added weight make a noticable/significant difference in straight line line performance for the above MY's? Thanks

Yes. it does. The C4 starts about 100lbs heavier. I imagine that a cab is another 150lbs so, 250lbs difference? I notice the difference when a 250lb weight is removed from my car. Noticable? yes. Significant? no.. a few .10s to 60 for example.

Yes but given there is also a +/- 10% variable on engine output.....this can make up for it, or make it worse...lol...I have a C4 cab, and its plenty fast....is is faster than a C2 coupe...probably not...BUT I have been on drives and have not been left in the dust by a C2 coupe....

Porsche's numbers ( MY01 6-speed ): C2 Coupe = 2,910 lbs C4 Cab = 3,197 lbs C4 Coupe = 3,032

I can feel a handling difference in my cars with as little as 50 lbs in the front trunk. Additionally, I have driven a C2 and C4 back to back at a Porsche dealer event (autocross/slalom/etc) and the cars did handle differently. Evo published an interesting article in March 1999 titled "OK Computer? Carrera 2 vs. Carrera 4" where they tested a '99 996 C2 w/traction control against a '99 996 C4 w/PSM in the wet and dry with TC & PSM "on" and "off". It is a very interesting article if you can find it.

Also, don't forget about the parasitic HP loss off the front driveline in the C4. I don't think it adds much drag, but it will play a small part (along with weight) in straightline acceleration. (In other words if you put the exact same engine in a C2 and a C4 and strap them to a dyno the C2 should put slightly more power to the wheels)

Darn... the articles only go back to 2002

Weight is huge............ If I put a fat friend in the seat next to me, the car is totally different.

Wow, almost 300 lbs. Throw on a hardtop & it's approaching 400. That's like having Butterbean climb in your car!

Yes you give up some performance for added safety and fun. Porsche states a .2 second difference 0-60 ( 5.0 vs. 5.2 ). Porsche's numbers are conservative though, C2s are in the 4.8 second range and I was able to pull this in my C4 cab. Quibbling about .2 seconds on the street is silly anyway. When I'm on the track I drive this. It'll smoke a GT3 and is more fun to drive and cheaper to own/maintain.

FWIW, to add one more data point: '99 C2 Cab = 3,070lbs, iirc.

Those are unloaded base curb weights and are not reflective of real world loaded weights. Car and Drivers 99' high option C2 coupe (18" turbo look wheels, Hi-Fi and digital sound, but no power seates) weighed 3149 lbs. So much for the 99' being so light. There is also a big misconceptions about the later cars being a lot heavier (except for the C4S on the bigger turbo chassis). You have to keep in mind that these are base curb weights unladen without any options or fluids. Porsche factory claims the 02-04' is 20 kg (44 lbs) heavier than the early 99'. That difference is completely evaporated when you look at how much less the later 18" Carrera wheels than the earlier 18" turbo-looks and the extra standard equipment in the later cars that was optional and not taken into account with the older cars. Car & Driver's 03' C4S coupe test car weighed 3424 lbs. The C2 tip cab they tested was around 3600 lbs. These are fully loaded cars tested on scales, not someone's theory. Keep in mind the the C4 chassis (without the AWD drivetrain) weighs over 75 lbs more than the C2 chassis. This is the reason why a GT3 is so much heavier than a regular C2. I don't believe any of the major magazines tested a C4 cab, but the reality is that this is a 400-500 lb difference. Add another 120 lbs if it is a C4S over a C4. The best way to realistically look at it is to weigh the car. I had my car on corner weight scales and it weighed 3130 lbs on the scales (02' C2 6-sp, 1/2 tank gas, no driver, 18" Carrera wheels, Bi-Xenon, Bose, factory power seats, spare and tools still in the truck, no rear seat and Fabspeed mufflers). With the rear seat and original mufflers it will be 50-60 lbs heavier. Keep also in mind the weight of gas. Gas weighs about 6 lbs a gallon which means there is about a 100 lb difference between a full and an empty tank.

This is precisely why these weights published by Porsche (one single consistent source and method) are helpful in determining the difference in weight between the various models. This takes the quantity and weight of the numerous options out of the equation. It does not matter that these weights are not "real world loaded weights" as the discussion is merely the difference in weight of the two models.

So to recap the weight differences (these are all Porsche's numbers): C2 - C4 = 122 lbs Coup - Cab = 165 lbs So...C2 Coupe to C4 Cab = 287 lbs 6 speed - Tip = 99 lbs 3.4l ( MY01) - 3.6l ( MY02 ) = 55 lbs 3.6l C4 - C4S = 153 lbs Turbo Look Solid Spoke wheels ( 17" is stock ): 7.5" x 18" = 24.91 lbs. 10" x 18" = 29.32 lbs. 18" 5 Spoke Carrera wheels: 8" x 18" = 20.50 lbs. 10" x 18" = 22.70 lbs. A 10.03 lb difference. I just don't see how anyone can say it's 400-500 lb difference, even if they don't weigh the cars w/the wheels on.

All I know is that when I first started shopping for a 996 I drove a C4 and it felt heavy and slow to me. Then went and drove a C2 and ended up buying one. Now wait a minute...in the C4 I had a friend with me and the C2 I was by myself? Oh well, never mind

I found a road test in Car & Driver for an 03' C4. In the test, it weighed a chunky 3614 lbs or 465 lbs more than the tested weight of their long term C2 coupe. There are 2 things that need to take into account: the cab was a tip, but the test weight does not include a hardtop. Keep in mind that this is not the theoretical differences that seem to keep being posted here, but actual tested on scales. Here is another interesting comparison. The 01' Turbo 6-sp they tested weighed 3500 lbs on the scales (only 76 lbs more than their test C4S 6-sp). The 05' Turbo S cab 6-sp with PCCBs and no hardtop weighed 3840 lbs on the scales or 340 lbs more than the coupe despite being on the same chassis (no C4 to C4S like increases). Just think about the difference if it had the steel brakes and a hardtop. You can play with numbers all you want, but the bottom line reality is always the same. Cabs will always weigh substantually more than coupes and never have as stiff a chassis. Keep in mind the weight not only hurts in acceleration, but also braking since you are slowing more weight with the same size brakes. Hence, they will always be the lower performer to have the ability to drop the top over a coupe. Porsches 4WD may be great to have when you lose traction, but since it is only engaged 5% of the time it spends 95% of the time just adding extra weight.

And again, the numbers I'm posting are not "theoretical differences," but Porsche's numbers.

Have you driven a AWD Porsche? The system is not working 5% of the time, its ALWAYS working. When cornering, it takes power from the wheels loseing traction and transfers it INSTANTLY to the wheels not losing traction....So if you are cornering hard....you can easily drive to the limits of the traction...when the wheels start to slip, you can step on the gas and the car will in a sense turn itself around the corner....while ACCELERATING...this can slingshot out of corners...its not active 5% of the time...If you know how to drive an AWD car, there is plenty of performance that can be gained...its different completely from driving a RWD car. Its all a matter of how you wanna go through corners...sideways, or not....I think its funny when the C2 guys say driving a car that doesnt easily get sideways is not fun...to me, fast and controlled cornering is fun....

Not sure there is "plenty of performance that can be gained" going to a AWD car. Can you think of any purpose-built race cars with AWD? F1, CART, LeMans or Daytona prototypes, etc., etc. Sideways isn't fast in any car. The AWD/PSM cars are easier to drive to 90% but from that point forward it's going to require just as much finesse as a RWD and ultimately it won't be as fast 'cause it's heavier and slower. I think scales are bit more accurate than mixing and matching theoretical numbers.

Rally AWD works great with all the sand they lay down during the winter. Stays around through the spring.

Yes I seem to remeber the Audi Qautros that were banned because they had an unfair advantage over the 2wd cars...Look at the rules in F1, CART, LeMans, and Daytona prototypes....you will see why there are no AWD cars there....In SCCA I also recall the Eagle Talon, an AWD Mitsubishi CLEANING UP....Craig T Nelson was driving it....

AWD is not used in many competition classes because the rules specifically forbid it.

Ha ha ha.... You got me there. I guess I'm referring to cars that race on pavement. And actually, rally cars don't apply because they're not purpose-built for racing. Impreza's are passenger cars last I checked. Same goes for Touring cars, the lower class GT cars, etc.

Damn I thought I had you

I would think this rally car has been purpose built for racing... And that stuff the car is on in the third pic, looks kinda like paving....

excellent post - i KNEW the 911 996s were heavier than the fan boi rennlist quote of being around 2800-900lbs.

Is AWD better than 2WD? Yes, the Audis for a very short time had their advantage. Why? Because they were initially allowed to run the same minimum weight as their 2WD competition. Given that their drivetrains weigh more, they were allowed to lighted other areas of the chassis to get down closer to minimum weight while the same changes would have put the RWD cars under weight. With the increase in minimum weight for the AWD cars to even out the rules for all, their dominance quickly ended. Before people start whining about this being unfare, it is a fact that a 4WD drivetrain weighs more than a 2WD. If you allow the same weight, the 4WD cars are givne permission to cheat. The same thing happened in Touring Car. With the weight more evened out to reflect the actual chassis weight. Now the RWD BMWs are the cars to beat. Even test driver Walter Rohrl goes 6-7 seconds faster in the 2WD version over the 4WD version of every generation 911 at the Nurburgring. For the discussion at hand, with the street cars AWD is always heavier than the same car in 2WD. That weighs effects everything the car does. If you are losing traction, then you can get a benefit from it. The rest of the time it is just extra weight. Why are the best handling factory 911's (GT3 and GT2) 2WD? Weight. Keep in mind also that both cars are 2WD, but built on the 4WD chassis which was made stronger for the extra weight of the 4WD drivetrain in front. I can understand the advantage in Rallying where you are driving studded tires on dirt. There is obviously an advantage to AWD where traction is extremely limited. But on the street or track in the dry? For my local region, we only had 1 serious DE incident last year. No, it was not a rear end heavy 2WD 911, but a front end heavy 4WD Lancer Evolution.

Hmmmm....this is why AWD's are usually banned from racing....Last time I checked THE TOTAL CAR is what was weighed...not the car without the drivetrain....so if the Audi's were penalized...which is what happened because of the BMW threats....they did the same thing in ALMS GT3...they ran a V8 M3, when the M3 didnt have a V8 in it....so when ALMS said they needed to use the engine sold in the car, which is what the rules say...they pulled out....German Touring Car didnt make them..they penalized Audi by adding weight....So what we are saying...given a car of equal weight, AWD is superior.

For feeling grippier, yea sure. For going around a timed lap around a race course, hecks NO.

Obviously, why the CGT, GT2, GT3 aren't AWD. My shifter kart is 2WD and weighs less than 400 lbs too. If all you care about is the track, 2WD is definitely the way to go. The difference just isn't as big as some make it to be. Some factors to consider are the percentage of street to track driving you do and what happens if it rains on track day...

Again....what has been said and proven on a track is 2 cars with similar HP and similar weight, the AWD was faster....In fact the C4S which is heavier than the C2, yet the same HP as the C2 is 4 seconds faster around nurburgring.

That cage is freaking awesome. When the Impreza was designed, engineered and manufactured it's purpose was to carry 4 people on public highways. The awesome Prodrive STi is a highly developed vehicle. A car that has been optimized on it's original passenger car frame/chassis. Are many components "purpose-built" for racing? Yes, but the platform was designed for getting groceries. How's that for covering my @$$. For our bench-racing exercise I'd offer the Rohrl's times on the 'Ring with the cars in question as exhibit A. P.S. Apparently AWD causes a vehicle to have less traction - just look at the pics, why the wheels are in the are air for chrissakes.

Well, there ya go! Proof that all-wheel-drive offers less traction!

you do realize that nurburgring isn't your avg 1-2min lap track, right? so you quoting 4 second diff as if it's the bible with those 4 seconds likely lapped on diff days, diff drivers, diff weather conditions etc.... is absolutely hilarious!

^

Ya know...all this talk about weight got me to thinking. How much does my 2000 996 C2 coupe weigh, anyway? Well, I decided to find out. A bit over a year ago, I'd had my '84 Carrera corner balanced and aligned on Hergesheimer's very accurate drive-on laser alignment rack and corner balance scale. That car ended up weighing 2,570 pounds empty (almost empty gas tank). A few weeks later a bunch of us Porsche fanatics decided to stop by a company that has a certified scale in order to weigh our cars and have a "weigh-off". It turned out my car weighed 2,660 pounds with 3/4 of a tank of gas (which weighs about 90 pounds), so it turned out that their scales gave basically the exact same number as Hergesheimer's scale. Great. Well, I decided to take the 996 to the same scale today but before I did, I filled the gas tank to capacity (16.9 gallons in the C2, or about 105 pounds). The car weighed 3,140 pounds, so it weighs about 3,035 pounds with an empty gas tank. Now I know.

Actually, its not JUST anyone...its the SAME Porsche factory driver, under the best conditions...it also is a tell tale sign as to the all around performance of a car....Its not JUST a random lap...its the FASTEST of a day or series of days...Chevy was there for WEEKS tuning the Z06 to get its times faster than the Carreras....so its not as random as you may think....Its also very interesting that the car manufacturers dont find it hilarious they spend hundreds of thousands getting times of their cars around the 'ring.....its a fact...the C4S is faster than the C2 around a track given the same skill level driver.

Where do we find these published Walter Rohrl lap times, anyway? I'm curious to see them.