Good bye to all that (long winded)

I turned in my leased 2003 Carrera 4S on Saturday and am currently Porsche-less, after owning a 993 for 5 years and a Boxster S for 3. I really loved them all and had no signifigant problems with any of them. They were fun, sturdy, and durable. I will not be getting another. There are several reasons for this. First is the sale of the local franchise to a dealer who I have had terrible experiences with in the past and who has a well deserved reputation for incompetence and dishonesty. I will never do business with them. Secondly is the fact the Porsches have changed for the worse in the past 10 years. They haven't gotten signifigantly more expensive, with additional costs for "options" that should be standard on cars like these at these prices. In short, Porsche is gouging its customers and I don't like. Also, the cars have lost some of the edge they used to have. Now, you have to drop over 100k for at GT3 to get back to the raw, connected, intense sensations that use to be found in all Porsches. What sealed the deal was a test drive in the new BMW Z4 Mcoupe. For 54K you get a terrific sports car with great bulld quality, a thrilling engine, awesome brakes and suspension and the thrill of being directly connected to it all. Porsches have changed. They are making money hand over fist, and obviously most customers are happy but an era has ended and now other makers are offering what I am looking for, C'est la guerre.

Strong words, but I understand where you're coming from. Did you think there was any comparison between the Cayman S and the BMW?

I did drive the Cayman S. Its very impressive, smooth and fast and handsome with lots of luggage room. I really thought I would get one but then I drove the BMW Z4M Coupe. It was so much more FUN than the Cayman. I was thrilled when I got out of the car, as opposed to being impressed with the Cayman S. Couple that with the 20k difference in the prices of the cars similarly optioned and it was no comparison.

i hear ya.... good luck with your M, nice machine. hope you find happiness in BMW.

I don't agree with everything you said, but your words on the M are spot on. I'm going to strongly consider one when I sell my 996 C2. Enjoy in good health

dadC4S, the first reactions to your post show that you're not alone with your observations. I've now my fifth BMW and my first Porsche and never had problems with any of my BMWs but my 996 did already cost me a lot of money and some frustration. The fun factor is relative and surely high on the 996 but the price-quality relation is clearly better at BMW. You get more for the money and pay less brand premium. OK, BMW doesn't offer a GT3 kind of car, but if you consider a regular 911, a Cayman, a Boxster or a Cayenne, BMW has very good comparable cars. I've also considered the Z4M as it combines a well balanced chassis with an incredible engine, fine suspension and a perfect transmission and might by one some day as replacement of my 996. One observation I made: Even after the B&M SSK installation on my 996 and a new clutch, the shifting on the 996 does not reach BMW stock level. I wish you good luck and much fun with your M Coupe. I'm sure you'll enjoy it!

That's why I'll always buy used. The second-hand market depreciates all of those options that should have been standard. It's not a coin thing; it's a principle and value thing.

I agree with some of what it said here-I think Porsche is making lots of $$ and I can completely understand that, as far as dealer service thats just a shame. I loved the Cayman when I saw it and drove it- I just dont like that z4 coupe- reminds me of a wagon for some reason - love the 6 series coupes however- hope you are happy with your choice!

It seems that while many will not agree with all I have said, many agree with much of it. Issues of value, or lack thereof, seem to resonate the most. If I were Porsche, I would find that troubling. Porsche buyers have always been thought of as very loyal customers, convinced of the superiority of these cars and willing to pay a premium for perceived value. I think that may be changing as Porsche's larger success in the marketplace has damaged that perception. Porsches are becoming "nice cars", not "the best cars" and the ability to charge huge prices and expect forbearance for repeated RMS failures and $950 stop watches (sports chrono) is not maintainable going forward. By the way, the Z4M has a "sport" button that sharpens throttle response signifigantly for sporting drives on open roads or tracks, it's standard.

OK, BMW doesn't offer a GT3 kind of car, but if you consider a regular 911, a Cayman, a Boxster or a Cayenne, BMW has very good comparable cars. I can see where BMW offers a Z4 and Z4 M roadster and coupe which compete with the Boxster, Boxster S, and Cayman. But I'm curious as to which BMW model you believe competes with the 911. If you say the M3, I can't really agree, but I suppose that it's about as close as BMW gets to a 911.

Read my M3 post.....You'll be back.

The M3 is nothing like a Z4M coupe, the M3 is a GT car, the Mcoupe is a real sportscar, more real than the Cayman or my C4S.

Bottom line: drive what you love to drive! I love the C4S Cab, and think it's the best Porsche I've ever driven. I do not like the look or feel of the Z/M Bimmer, but that's personal taste. I have other vehicles, but the thrill I get behind the wheel of the C4S Cab is unmatched. Anyway, hope your experience is a good one, to each his own. Enjoy, and be safe.

I used to have a Z3 M Coupe (Euro spec with 321hp and no traction control) and try as may, I just can't get the same thrills out of my C2 that I did from my M Coupe. I got the C2 for the rear seats for my twins, but 6 months after the sale, I still miss that car. If you think the Z4 M Coupe is fun, give one of the later (01 or 02) Z3 M Coupes. Enjoy your M, I sure did mine.

BMW are nice cars...but just a BMW.....a Porsche is a Porsche...no matter what!!! And getting more thrill out of driving a Z3....RIGHT!!! But everybody is entittled to their opinion and so am I....by the way I am a BMW lover as well as a Porsche lover and like the Z4...but not over a 911...and come on.....who can really drive either of these cars to the max on the road!!!

Nicolaas, I suggest you actually go drive a Z3 M Coupe and then report back. As you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I too have been a BMW owner prior to the Porsche, but to me, a Porsche is also "just a Porsche", the same way you point out that BMW is "just a BMW". The only place I differ is where specific models are involved. A GT3 is not your run of the mill 996 or 997, same goes for a GT2. A M3 did not "do it for me", yet the Z3 M Coupe did. I merely was agreeing with the original post and I do think that a M Coupe is a very good choice alternative (price into consideration) to a 911.

I feel quite proud of my fellow rennlisters. There's a lot of support and understanding of dadc4s's decision. Imagine the flaming you'd get on an Acura board you were buying a 350Z!

I have driven MANY MANY BMW's and while they are great cars...the reliability is not stellar, the performance is good, but disconnected...When compared to a Porsche? No comparison.....There is a reason that there are more older Porsche's on the road by percantage than ANY other car....they have amazing build qualities. A 1979 911 will go for about 10k...a 1979 320i, 530i, 633i, etc will go for anywhere from $500 to $5k MAX....You went from a 993 to Boxster S to 996 C4S and you feel Porsche's are now disconnected? There is nothing wrong with a 997 performance wise and its better than the 996s...Same thing with 987's vs 986's....Hell, you can get a WRX STi or Evo that has great performance for 30k....or get a Vette....anyway...enjoy your M Coupe...

Enjoy it. I left the fold....went through a few cars...and came back. Had a 993 3.8 C4s. Now I have a TT. Odd, but the limits of the cars are real...but nothing drives like them, for better or worse. FWIW, the reviews of the Z4M state it is much better than the M6 (NYTimes within the last few weeks). I have heard the M6 is a major dud.....too removed.... Good luck. We'll all be fine if you come back in a few years. If you don't, best of luck and hope you stay safe. JB

That's actually what also impressed me at the first look. I once read that >60% of all ever built 911 are still running! However, (a) I'm not sure that this will apply in the long term to the 996 and (b) one reason is that a 911 is much more expensive than a 320i, so the spend threshold for repairs is much higher. What the >60% statistic didn't say is how much the average 911 swamped in repairs. If you buy a 911 (new or used), you buy a legend and the Widekind area was able to keep the pricing of the myth and combine it with good but mass production sportscars and mass production has it's price in terms of reliability. Economically that's a success story but it also sets Porsche back to be "just a Porsche" like " BMWs are just BMWs" ...

Blah blah blah, I don't buy it. Don't run down the marque just because you want a different driving experience. I don't buy the argument at all that Porsche has gone soft. The performance out of the 996, and specifically my C4S, is staggering. The speed, the quickness of the steering and the throttle response are out of this world. The BMW is a completely different car. Of course it has its own merit, but you can't compare. Off you go....

The Z4 M Coupe is a heck of a car.....but I wouldn't take it over a Cayman S. However, different strokes for different folks. Good luck with your Bimmer.

Not only do I agree with much of the original poster's sentiment, but a buddy and I were having this EXACT conversation the other day. It used to be that when you bought a Porsche you were buying a lot more than the performance. They carried a mystique about them that I don't think they still carry. They have been "dumbed down" quite a bit IMO to make them more marketable to the masses. Several years ago I had an 89 turbo. That thing was like a race car, and my wife could barely depress the clutch. I could get it into a beautiful 4 wheel drift, but anyone who did not own it was scared of the power and the handling. You had to know how to drive it. These days the Infinity FX45 has as much horsepower, the Lexus IS is only a bit behind, and for 1/2 the money you can buy an American car with twice the horsepower. I think it is sad. Plus throw into the mix that 996 motors are having catastrophic failure and the manufacturer (who is making record profits in the industry) is not standing behind their product. Would I buy another 996? I doubt it. I would buy a TT or GT if I could afford it, but it used to be you could get a used turbo for less than $100K. I miss that too. Rant over. Commence beating.

Porsche NEVER was about HP...they were ALWAYS underpowered compared to the competition (Except for the 917)....They were about handling, braking, etc....BMW's are setup for numbers....Porsche's are for the feel....the well balanced package....I dont care if a Vette has more HP....or if a FX45 does....in a canyon, I'll leave you FAST....Anyone can make a car fast in a straight line...thats not why I got my Porsche....Do you recall BMW M3 motors grenading...its well documented...most high end sports cars have engine failures documented....Aston Martins new AMV8 has had some issues as well.....Personally I wouldnt want a car that had a stiff clutch and was so rough around the edges it was nearly unsafe.....Porsche has made the cars more comfortable, reliable and FASTER in every way....You want a rawer feeling? Get the suspension done and a SSK and you are there...

This is a very interesting thread. I was once a BMW devotee and am even a current CCA Chapter President, for the second time. I thought about buying a Porsche for several years and finally bought one in September. That car was a RoW 3.2 Carrera Cab and it was and still is an incredible car. the driving feel and the connection to the road are unmatched by any BMW product I have driven. I have not driven the new M Coupe, but have had the epitome of M3s, the E30 M3. I even had the last of the handbuilt M5s, the E34 M5. They were great cars, but their performance and road feel could not match the 3.2 Carrera. In December, I purchased a '99 996 and it is a great driver. Lots of amenities and much easier to use as a daily driver. As I ran out of parking space, I gave away my 525iT to my sister and a 635csi track car to a friend. I kept the 3.2 Carrera and the 996 along with my Dinan 540i. There are different strokes for different folks, but now I prefer Porsches to BMWs. I even tried stepping down as CCA Chapter President, but my local members wouldn't have it. They do allow me to attend our meetings with my 911s. lol

I think a lot of you are missing the point. He didn't say straight up, but rather for the price. For $30K less, you don't get $30K less in performance or the "wow" factor. To each his own. I'm inclined to believe that other purists on this forum would take a their 996 porsche over say a ferrari 430 straight up. You can't argue with that sentiment - it's just what each person fancies. I've often thought that I could sell my porsche and get another car for less $$ with similar performance. Will it be the same?? Probably not, but I'd have more $ in my pocket too. As you can guess, I still have my pcar so that side of my brain hasn't won the argument thus far. gl man.

bull****......I would take a Ferrari over a Porsche!! And I like BMW's AND I have driven a Z3 and a Z4...and it is nice.....as nice as driving a well put together car...nice handling...solid build.....but it drives more like any other well build car....not like a Porsche! BUT in the end who cares......drive what you like.....

I'd say go buy a Honda, or Toyota, or Ford and drive just that car for awhile. Then, when you jump back into your BMW or Porsche, doesn't matter what, the grin will once again be ear to ear.

You can have a great time with most sports cars, even a miata. The Bmw Coupe is a quirky little car. It also has huge hp and it priced great. Unfortunatly the Cayman doesn't have the same hp but the handling is like driving a surgical knife, so precise and mid engined so these things make up for the lack of hp. The Cayman is much easier to drive around the track without any skill but the BMW needs to be mastered and I don't think many people are going to risk it, to drive at the edge just to keep up to the Cayman. I know I wouldn't. New Porsches are so much easier to drive, so I guess that can make you feel disconnected, so maybe the BMW is the better choice for you.

if you like the way it looks go for it. there is no way i would like to have that look. <img src="http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/2006/02/10/McoupeRear_l.jpg">

if you like the way it looks go for it. there is no way i would like to have that look.

if you like the way it looks go for it. there is no way i would like to have that look.

I did buy a Honda for my Daughter. Accord Coupe V6 GREAT car! Feels just like a 996 but less rattles but the engine is in backwards. If this car was a rear wheel drive I would own one for a daily driver. On the MCoupe I love the styling but have not driven one. I went to the M5 driving school in SC with a friend and drove the snot out of Z4's and M5's for two days and can say that neither did much for me. The M5 is too big and the Z4 just didn't have any pizzaz. Get the Cayman as a loaner and don't care for it either...maybe I should go drive an MCoupe.... Looks like a good choice to me

One thing is for sure, the people on this forum have class. Posting a message like my original one on this post would be a recipe for a full frontal flame assault on many other boards but here it has gotten many thoughtful and interesting comments. I will let you know how life with the Z4M coupe goes and as my feelings and opinions evolve in this Porsche-less future I will share my thoughts. Thanks for all the good wishes...see you down the road.

+1 My thoughts exactly.

[QUOTE=dadc4s]One thing is for sure, the people on this forum have class. Posting a message like my original one on this post would be a recipe for a full frontal flame assault on many other boards but here it has gotten many thoughtful and interesting comments. Try posting on the 993 board that you are selling your 993 to buy a 996 because the 993 just doesn't do it for you anymore. My guess is that the flamming would char-broil you within an hour. or Try posting on the 997TT board that you are trading in your TT for a C6 Z06 and see what kind of response you get. Rennlist is the best auto enthusiasts site online IMHO but I am not sure that kinder and gentler are appropriate adjectives.

Hmmm...interesting. I was coming back from a client this morning and a black Z4 Mcoupe pulls out to catch up to me in traffic. At the light I notice it's got a dealer plate and two guys (looked like salesmen) in the car and they're grinning and pointing at my car (covered in slush and salt). He's in the lane to my left at the light 4-5 feet ahead of me; while I'm stuck behind a minivan. Light turns green and he squirts in front of the minivan and onto the right hand hwy ramp; luckily the van goes straight and I start reeeling him in. On the ramp he's pushing pretty hard and just to try to keep me from "pushing" him up the ramp! Road is wet and the Snowsport 240's and AWD are just unbeatable. Once we get on the highway, I easily pull ahead and with every shift he falls a little further back (the look on the driver's face when he heard the PSE open up was priceless....what a grin!. At 180 Kph, I back off and he just exits at the next ramp. Conclusion: Mcoupe is pretty quick, but doesn't have anywhere near the grip, cornering or auditory and visual impact. However, enjoy your new ride and see you again soon in the Porsche brotherhood!

I have said this many times. It is baffling to me that an 80k car can come with partial leather seats. It is baffling that a 30k Mustang has a short shifter as standard equipment, but Porsche wants me to pay an extra 500 for it. An 80K car cannot come with freaking floor mats, and I apparently cannot expect it not to rattle like a childs toy. I am on my first 911 after owning 5 BMW's of various series 3 3 series, 540 and the current wife car is an X5. All of them had better reliability and quality construction than my 911. Now my 911 is more fun to drive than any of them, and there is no denying that. It is more that there is a lot more trouble to get it at a much higher cost for lesser amenities. Needless to say thus far my Porsche experience compared to my BMW experience leaves a whole lot to be desired. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but really when you're buying a Porsche should you not expect the best?

its really a shame or maybe a sham...i love porsches but not new ones..they drive great but like blk on blk said "80k and you have to buy floor mats"..get real..

YES - I do remember. My buddy had an M-Coupe and not only had his engine replaced out of warranty, he had his warranty extended to 100K. I think that is the right thing for Porsche to do with the 996 motors that go south too. However, it only seems to be us guys who have had to pony up the $10-14K who feel that way. This is another reason I have soured on Porsche.

I spend most of my Porsche time on the street, rather than the track (although I autocrossed for 10 years), so street performance matters more to me these days than track performance. I've owned 4 Porsches and 8 BMWs. My current Porsche is a '99 996. I've never owned an M3, but I've test driven two of the E46 variety (it's pretty impressive, by the way). In daily driving (where we're driving at less than 10/10's) the M3 is very competitive with a 996 or 997. Its 0-60 time of 5 seconds, 333hp/262foot pounds of torque, and stopping distance of 112' from 60mph (source: Edmunds.com) suggest why it performs on a level comparable to the Porsches on the street. Which car would be faster on the track is not the point of this posting. Rather, I merely want to say that in every day life, the M3 will do all that its driver will ask of it. Like the Porsches, it has more abilities than can safely be exploited on the street. What makes the M3 also attractive to me is the added benefit of being a practical daily driver (rear seating, adequate trunk space, good visibility, plenty of room for my burly 6'1" frame, etc.). It doesn't matter which is the better car from a theoretical point of view - the Porsches and the BMW provide thrills and similar street performance...but the BMW does it for alot less money. For many people, this makes the BMW a better value for the money.

I can buy a watch made in Japan for $50.00 that keeps time as good or better than my Submariner. Do I want the Rolex or the one that keeps good time? The maintenance on my Rolex costs more than 5 of those watches. I will still take the Rolex anyday. It is not about value........

Every time I think I'm getting tired of my C4S (happened with my 01 C4 too) I drive something else looking for that feel that will make my pants fit funny, and it's never there. I did drive a few Ferrari's and boy the 360 is sex on wheels but I'd be damned if I could drive it all year in the Northeast like my C4S. BMW, Mercedes - some very beautiful and fun cars in their respected lineup, but I couldn't get myself to give up the 911 for one of them. Eh, the 911 isn't for everyone and I'm okay with that. I like that fact that we choose to drive these cars when certainly there is a large selection of cars on the market we could choose from.

This should stir things up: The engine is in the wrong spot and it looks like a clown shoe - Bangled.

Rob, I just became a member and it is humor like this that will keep me here! Too good.

Exactly the conclusion I came to when I selected my 996.

I can understand this argument, but for me it was the reason I bought a 996 instead of a 997.

What's it about then? I'm dying to hear if you'll have the chutzpah to say that it's about anything other than show. I mean, I know Rolex makes good watches, but clearly, some watches have more to do with who sees you wearing them than telling the actual time. And yes, I know I am stirring up the hornets' nest on this one, particularly since I love nice watches.

Well my engine went south...but I did my research, bought a CPO car and it was fully covered under warranty.....In fact they did warranty repairs on my car AFTER my 100k warranty was up....oh and guess what BMW has a CPO deductable....Porsche does not. I guarantee you buy a used M3, and the engine goes out of warranty, you will have problems with BMW replacing the engine for free. As for an 80k car not coming with mats...YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR MATS!!! You are paying for Porsch engineering...thats not cheap....you get a car that is as fast as just about any car on the market...hell the 996 has near supercar performance, and yet its still reliable and driveable DAILY...I bought a 80k Range Rover and guess what...NO MATS INCLUDED....There is a reason the car costs so much....

Besides my Carrera 4S mats from Llyods are much better anyway!

Welcome to BMW M cars (big hug!). Great choice with the Z4 M Coupe. It's BMW's sportiest model until the arrival of the E90 M3 (with 400-hp V8). The new M3 will have to be a very a good car to justify its guaranteed price premium over your Z4MC.

Autoweek is reporting that the new M3 is larger in most every dimension, heavier, and has a longer wheelbase than the previous model. How are your fellow M fanatics feeling about this? Autoweek is guessing at 0-60 in 5.0s....... How heavy is this thing gonna be? Seems like the M3 is moving further and further away from the original and early cars, and closer to the M5. Actually, I'd be curious as to a comparison between this new E90 M3 and the original M5. Sounds like very similar cars.

We're not feeling good about the way the new M3s are heading (more weight and complexity, etc.). Most E30 M3 owners think they have the best M3. As an E36 M3 owner, I think we have the best M3, although the E46 M3 is quite the looker. I'm not keen on the looks of the new E90 M3. It looks like a Pontiac GTO LOL The performance of the new E90 will have to be quite stunning. If it's not, current E46 M3 owners will either hold on to their M3s, or buy new Z4 M Coupes (lighter, faster, and more fun to drive).

Interestingly, my wife and I used to own a BMW 525i. Loved it. However, she was really hankering after a true sports car. So, we decided to test drive the Z4M. She really loved the power, but she wasn't happy with what she considered to be a heavy clutch and she felt somewhat claustrophobic in it. She said she felt like she was sitting way back behind a long hood and a low roof. She wasn't super impressed with it, other than the obvious power advantage (and this from a BMW owner). She then test drove the Cayman, and while she wished the car had more power, she absolutely loved the Cayman from the get-go. She said she felt much more connected with it. It felt like a more natural car to her. It just felt "right". Take nothing away from the Z4M. She just liked the Cayman better (even with the HP deficit) Just another perspective.

Most of the mag articles I've read gave the Cayman S the advantage over the Z4 M Coupe. British car mags love the new Z4M Coupe. They think the Z4MC has "personality", while the Cayman S gets the job done through the turns with very little drama...

Every brand, every model, when improved and rolled out is "bigger and heavier" than its predecessor. From VW Golfs to S class Benzes. The only way to get "lighter" or "more responsive" seems to be to buy older versions. Which is a bit ironic since it is those very versions people complain are too heavy or too unresponsive to begin with, untill the "next" generation comes out, then they become the "great old cars" Longhoods, Mid-year cars, SC/Carerras/ 964/993/996. Each version got progressively worse (ie heavier, less responsive) yet faster and quantifiably (sp?) better at the same time

Are you saying you bought a Porsche becuase of value? Do you like nice watches because they tell better time? or do you appreciate the engineering that goes into a perpetual watch that does not need batteries. There is much more to it than who sees you wearing it if you understand and appreciate the engineering that goes into making it. The same goes for cars. Some buy them to be seen inside and some buy them for the engineering and heritage wheather it is for racing or just an appreciation of the engineering. You are missing the point of my original statement.

Some good points on this thread both pro and con. It seems Porsche has figured out a way to get by on doing just enough to make us all happy, or at least content enough to buy their cars in record numbers. I think at this stage it is a pretty poor value from a performance per dollar spent perspective. I also think the interior quality and interior contrstuction is borderline abomination for a car in any price range let alone one in the 80k-130k range. Still there is something special about it nonetheless. It is respected and awed by just about everyone, and holds a dear place in the hearts of automotive fans worldwide. Myself included in that group. I love the car, but find so many things disappointing with it, yet at the same time there is nothing I would rather drive on a daily basis so you see where Porsche really has us in a unique spot. We know for a fact that they can do better. It seems the 993 was truly a quality car all the way around. The 996 was a revolution of sorts and almost was like starting over for them. They worked out some kinks with it in 2004 and made it more aethetically appealing. They improved on that with a gorgeous 997, and have made some strides in interior quality. Seems they are finding their way with the water cooled and bigger 911. I would expect the 998 to be the culmination of things with the water cooled engine and should be back to 993 type solid build quality both inside and outside the car. It is what should be expected, and should be the bench mark. I think many of us give Porsche a total pass because well it is Porsche. Just like people give Rolex a pass when their watch loses time each year over a Timex. You accept quirks of a Rolex automatic because it is Rolex even though you should expect perfection from a watch that is a minimum 3k to get. If it was a Timex you woudl throw it away, bitch and moan and buy something else. Porsche gets the same pass.

Yes, I bought a used Porsche with 5200 miles at a just slightly greater than 50% discount to sticker. Good value! I hear you here. But again, there are plenty of watches that have wonderful mechanisms that sell at a discount to Rolex. Zenith (don't own one) and Ulysse Nardin (don't own one) are good examples. I get the drift. Just splitting hairs with you.

I get the drift. Just splitting hairs with you. [/QUOTE] My rolex says it is time to drift!

The original 996 is lighter than the 993 it replaced, and handles better too. You are correct that it is faster.

Actually the 996 is lighter than the 993..... 993 3064 pounds 996 2920 pounds

Hmmm....no I dont give porsche a pass....but you fail to realize that the 993 was an EXPENSIVE car to maintain....the 996 is CHEAP in comparison. DIRT CHEAP. It seems like the mystique is that a 993 will run for a million miles or something without a tuneup. There are MAJOR things that can happen to the 993 that are expensive to repair. Just doinf a quick search...various oil leaks, premature valve wear and carbon buildup requiring expensive top end rebuilds...which can be as much as a COMPLETE 996 engine...Just about everything on a 993 is MORE EXPENSIVE....and what do you get for it? Less performance....I dont buy the whole 993 is built better. My 996 is SOLID, maybe one of the best built cars I have ever owned. Just because other manufacturers wanna beef up their cars to compete, doesnt mean Porsche has to....All their current cars are over 300 HP...how much do you want? 0-60 times have been below 5 seconds and they are NOT fast from the line cars....I had a few E46 M3's pulling up next to me and revving....I got sick of it, downshifted and punched it....well they NEVER caught me until I let up because it was my exit...before I knew it, I was at 135...their lights wer getting smaller and smaller in my mirror. My Car is a STOCK engine in a 99 C4 Cab with 123k miles on it....i am not sure how much performance one needs in todays world...If HP is your goal..get a Viper with 600hp...but is that a better driving experience than a 911? NO.....Not giving Porsche a pass, but when you look at it for what it is, there is a reason that Porsche's have the mystique they do...they are amazing cars.

+1

The only reason Porsche could stay in business was to STOP doing things the OLD WAY (ie 964/993). Those cars, as mentioned above, were VERY expensive to build. A 996 was designed to be easier and less expensive to build. That's not to say they sold them for less $$ than a 993, but in the early to mid 1990s, Porsche was nearly out of business. The success of the 993 allowed them to stay around to fully develop the 996 - which was cheaper to make than its predecessor and when combined with the Boxster allowed Porsche to rebuild itself as a company and be around today and heck, even begin to take control over their neighbor (VW). Sorry about calling the 996's "heavier" than the 993. But given all the options put on a 996, does anyone have one thay actually weighs 2920?? They are longer than the 993 though AND they have the advantage of looking like a Boxster

+2

Just have to point out. It was not the 993 that kept Porsche from going under. It was the Boxster.

Lets not split hairs.. the popularity of the 993 allowed Porsche additional time to develop the 996.. which would have come out in 1997, the same year as the Boxster, but was pushed back. But yes, the Boxster gave porsche sufficient volume (at a lower profit margin) to fuel their comeback.

The 993 was NOT that popular..if I recall it sold in less numbers than the 964 and that was a problem for Porsche....cars were not flying out of the showrooms....the Boxster was an instant hit and turned Porsche around.....the 993 was not a huge financial success for Porsche.

The only counter I have is my recollection from reading "excellence was expected" which indicated that the 993 proved more popular for Porsche than anticipated. The 993 was another stopgap measure, since the Porsche board didn't authorize the money to completely change the car from the 964. The 993 was another "80% different than the 964, itself some 80% different than the 3.2l 911s. The 996 was well underdevelopment when the 993 came out. Porsche was developing BOTH the 986 and 996 together as a money saving method. Hence, the commonality between the two models. Porsche originally was to debut the 996 and 986 in the same year. Sucess (relative) of the 993 allowed them to push back the 996 intro till 1999(us) - 2 years after the Boxster.

As a person qualified to speak on this subject, I own one old school and one new school, my 964 is a better built car. The differences are everywhere: All painted surfaces buffed to a shine, that means under the hood and engine compartment. 17 year old car...no rattles. Original window regulators. Better carpet. Beefy suspension components. Better quality fastners, no paint to dull or rust. Details of a hand built car all over it. I can show people in person detail after detail. Sure the 964 has faults also but the pure quality of the components is not comparable. Now with that said I agree that Porsche had no choice about going the direction they did and the 996 handles better and is faster out of the box. But the cars do not compare. My .02

US customers were taking delivery of 996 models in early-mid 98. These were the "early" '99 models for NA. The 996 debuted in Europe as 98 model. In fiscal 96/97 Porsche sold 16,507 911's, outselling Boxster. In fiscal 97/98 Porsche sold 17,869 911's, 948 less than Boxster. The Boxster's best years, 99/00 and 00/01, the Boxster outsold the 996 by 2697 units and 1144 units respectively. From fiscal 01/02 through fiscal 04/05, the 996 outsold the Boxster by 40,351 units, 111,656 996's to 71,305 Boxsters. These sales numbers should also indicate why 996 depreciation is greater than 993. Porsche sold ~49,216 993's, ~ 184,517 996's. This is significant. As a former Boxster owner, I am aware that many have praised the Boxster as having saved Porsche. However, the actual numbers indicate the 996 provided significantly greater revenues for the company. What the Boxster DID was introduce many, many, new customers to Porsche, many of whom (such as myself), moved up to 911's, a more profitable model for PAG. And the Boxster DID effectively double unit sales for the first five years of Boxster production which was substantial in Porsche's recovery. So, yes, the Boxster played a very, very, important role in Porsche's rebound, but the 996 did the heavy lifting .

As a 996 turbo owner my comments on the better built 993 etc. are as follows, it must be because; 1) Global warming was'nt as great. 2) We were still using good old " freon" 3) Infancy of political correctness. 4) Organic foods not as prevalent as today. 5) Alternative lifestyles not as acceptable 6) No digital cable tv's and plasma screens for the masses. 7) Of course no High Speed Internet. these are the reasons the 993 is the greatest

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Its interesting to see how many more 996's were sold than 993's....This goes to show that the 993 was milking Porsche...not much profit in each car, and not alot of sales. If I recall the price was very similar....so suddenly lots of people wanted the 996 when previously they didnt want the 993.....

Congrats!