996 Owners: Do you Rent or Own a house?

This might be an odd question to ask, but anyway ... Do 996 owners own or rent houses / apartments? In other words, do people invest in a house first and then get a p-car when they have the extra cash? Or is the car more important? I live in the SF Bay Area where you need to spend at least 800K for a decent house. That's why I chose to get the car -- buying a house can wait a few years. What's the general opinion? (Lets exclude people who have passed-down houses or trust funds)

I bought my house and rent others to other people. I did actually have my boxster in the UK before I bought an apartment

Buying a house should always be your first choice, barring you planning on only being in the area a few years. However, living in San Fransisco IS NOT a good choice IMHO.

Ahhhh, I see you are single! I too live in the SF Bay area. Married(happily) and there was no way on God's green earth that my wife was going to agree to my 911 purchase before I made sure I could afford other, more sensible big ticket items (house, retirement, insurance, kid's education, etc) were bought and/or saved for. I got (somewhat) lucky. I worked my a$$ off and was in the right place and the right time (and *recognized* it!). However, if there's one thing I've learned your P-car addiction can be much cheaper than the road I went (my road was mostly out of convenience). There are lots of reasonably cheap 911's around and even more people to help you work on them. IMHO, get your priorities right, you can't live in your car... Well, maybe you can. Try a more vintage P-car, work on it yourself, but save for a house - that's a real investment.

I bought in san francisco proper with my GF (we're serious, just marriage is not a big deal to us) and then we bought the 911 immediatly afterwards! Granted though, we had two cars (bmw & audi) before and now we have one. So the 911 was the cost effective thing to do! Thats probably not ideal for everyone, but neither of us drives to work and we live smack dab in the middle of the city so the car is just for fun and not commuting/going out on the town.

I don't think it's an odd question at all,... I always believed my first big purchase would be my Porsche, even through college I believed it. The week after graduation I got married,...she convinced me that we should get the house first. Then it was the new family car, the new SUV and then 5 yrs. from my graduation bought my dream car. Now I am really glad I did it that way,..but in Ohio homes are cheap. So the wiser me now thinks, it is a good idea to start investing and buying a home before purchasing a Porsche. But I have to say, no other purchase even remotely gives me the satisfaction of owning a Porsche.

house, actually moved up to second one before pcar

An expensive car NEVER comes before a house. EVER. But American psyche doesn't think that way. Guess that's why the average 30 yr old in the US has a net worth of 0. Unless you can justify it with some future stream of income, I would never place a depreciating asset in front of a home. I paid cash for my penthouse condo 3 years ago, then bought my first porsche. Not owing the bank any money ever will make you feel better in the long run. Pay off that house first.

I'm 37 and I live with my mom. I've got the basement fixed up sweet.

Lol Riad.

Bought first house, 2 years later bought the Porsche - this was after showing my wife that I had set aside enough money for money for a second house (that we recently bought) and had fully funded my company's retirement accounts and the kids' 529 plans. Before being able to get into the California housing market, I was driving autos that were much more humble.

Buy a house first. Girls are smart and will be more impressed that you own a home in SF than a P-car of any vintage. P-cars impress guys more than girls. My gf, now wife considered my 996 as a big toy that warrants a similar purchase of her own. That's why we're going to HK to buy jewelry. Although this was not mentioned, I think for some of us, a P-car purchase is a very visible and tangible symbol of our personal financial success/luck/hard work. As for me, I don't think a P or F car has any more soul, passion, and spirtuality than what we imbue upon it. It's just a talisman on 4 very sexy wheels.

Yes, buy house first -- always. Living in SF -- bad!!!!

I own 7 houses but am Porsche-less at the moment. What did I do wrong?

Identifying your wife as a previous "gf" in San Fransciso does not necessarily mean girl friend.

Buy house, renovate like crazy (to her liking), landscape (for her), furnish it (for her), pay it off completely... then and only then buy a porsche (with her approval and encouragement of course! )= perfect recipe for a happy marriage and p-car ownership experience. Let's face it gents, if it wasn't for the women in our lives we'd all be driving AND living in really nice cars!

I bought a small condo while I got my finances straightened out after a divorce, then sold it and bought a house (with new wife) and a new M3, then decided we wanted more room to entertain so we sold that house and bought a new one. 18 months and a nice new diamond later, I got my C2. Moral of the story? House always first, and sometimes woman second. P-car second or third. Oh, and for you guys who live in places like the Bay area - I live in the Atlanta suburbs for a reason. We've got almost 6000 sq. ft. here for the same cost as a 2500 sq. ft. loft downtown.

Can't add anything to the previous posts except that I agree

not meaning to be mean here but if this guy has to ask then maybe he isn't ready for a p_car and then again may he's seeing how many of us dilberts are going to answer this post as if none of us have priorities

yes, houses, i own a few. but the question being posed doesn't apply well across the nation. here in SF, a 1200 condo next to SBC park can be sold at over $1M (guess how i know). even though it's prudent to buy real estate before toys, it's very hard to do in the bay area. i bought toys first. but luckily i was able to come to my sense and started investing right after that so now is much better.

I rent!....I don't know where we want to live...moved from NYC to LA...so does this mean I can't have a nice car? I need to transport myself from A to B..better do this in style.

Whats A house me and my old lady are on section eight houseing,buying A house is for suckers,live rich die poor. I also live in S.F. OJ.

If your buying a P-car you should own at least one home and probably more..... if not you should have some other investments...

Yup, you got that right!

I guess I'm in the minority. I have a P-car and no house. Actually, I still live at home with the parents* (for another month or two) Hey, I still have an undergrad degree to finish! Which is another reason I haven't bought a house. I mean, I can afford $35k for a car, but $500k+ for a house when I still need an undergrad degree? And I may be 23 with a Porsche, but I still have a very very positive net worth. Saving (and investing) goes a long, long way. Justin * - Yes, I pay rent. Substantial.

These threads kill me. We'll need a "suicide" emoticon if I have to read about who owns what. This is a forum about Porsche sports cars. If you don't know whether or not to buy a house, call Dr. Laura. And if I have to read about another twenty-something with "very very positive net worth", I'll puke.

Rick: What's the problem? Some of the discussion seemed to involve the net worth of P-car buyers, and how the "American" way is to spend money on depreciating assets. It was my way of saying "I do not own a house, but I did not break the bank, either". I can't stand Dr. Laura I'm happy. I have my P-car. Before long I'll have my college degree, and probably not too long after that, I'll have a house. Yes, things go wrong. For all I know, I could lose my job tomorrow. The stock market could tank. But I'm happy now, and none of those things are going to stop that. Have a good night! Justin

I own my place in mahattan.... Wouldn't have it any other way... If I had to rent, I wouldn't be owning my p-car. House comes first then the toys

That's why she says to be quiet.

I bought my car and all I could afford was this. It fell over last week and smashed my car....................

Bought all of my toys first and building my home now. It wasn't due to a financial reason, just choice. There's a lot of smart financial decisions out there, but at the end of the day, you have to do what makes you happy. Any way you cut and dice it, the car is the worst investment possible, so I agree that having other investments first is a good idea. Kudos Justin for owning a P car at 23. At the same time, I understand w/ what Rick is saying... the thread is a little on the obtuse side. I still like chiming in though... does that make me obtuse? Hmm..

Without a doubt. Own some property first. I bought a house. Sold it. Bought a bigger house (family). Bought an X5 (wife) , bought a Montero (trips to home depot), bought a summer house (family again), then, but most importantly bought the pcar.....clearly saving the best for last. Hell had I bout the porsche first, I would likely felt no need for everything else! The houses' main functioning seem to be a resting place for the pcar.

First house then Porsche, then 2nd Porsche, then 2nd house. 2houses, 2porsches

Although SF prices are high, NYC and few other places can be much higher. You can get a condo for 500-600k in SF bay area, maybe even a townhouse. However, the market is not appreciating much and rent is still dirt cheap. You may be better off renting for another year or two. For those that live in 5000 sq ft house -- why do you need such a big house anyways? 2000-3000 sq ft is plenty for a family of 3. beyond 4000, i think it's just excess.

I own a house and rent out apartments. I think owing a home or at least a condo is more important than a p-car. If you wait to own a home you could be paying $1m for that same $800K house and miss out on the $200k of apprieciation.

Nothing..... your a rennllist member. You vacariously have thousands of pcars.

Screw cars and houses..... BUY ART!!!!!!

Usually, the larger the home, the higher the value of the home. In a market of resonable appreciation, the higher the value of the home the higher the return on the appreciation! One good reason to own a larger/more $$ home. IMHO.

Property tax can eat away at alot of your appreciation depending on where you live. In DC and surrounding states, the tax rate is virtually non existent compared to the Chicago area. A $1,000,000 homes in NC will cost you about $10,000/year where as the same home out here will cost in excess of $25,000 a year.

A decent 964 can be had for less than a new Camry, and is 80% as much fun as any Pcar on the road. Pay cash for an old 911 while you rent, then step up to financing a late model after you close on your first real estate deal. Good luck with the taxes though, per message above.

Buy the house first. It you still want a porsche I'm sure you can find an older one in a lower price range. House usually appreciate, that 800k house will cost 1 million if you wait another year or two. I should talk, I had four cars including two corvettes (that's one of the reasons I bought my first house, needed a big driveway) whenI bought my first house. But that house doubled in value and that allowed me to move up to my second house which I had built, then that house doubled in value. Cars only depreciate. Buy the house now and next year get your dream car.

My wife's parents are getting older and aren't very mobile. Couple that with the fact that her mom has had open-heart surgery 3 times and is on kidney dialysis and we planned that at some point they would probably have to come live with us. So we got something big enough for us to have a full family and entertain on the upper two floors, and still have a full basement with bedroom, bathroom, living room, and kitchen for her parents. Plus is was a great deal. The subdivisions on either side are about 1000-1500 sq.ft. smaller and $100-200k higher.

When I first moved here I shared my wife's POS 95 jeep cherokee with 250k miles for 14 months until i had got the ring and house purchse out the way thats why when she heard the new exhaust, instead of bitching about mods she just looked at the chunk of carbon on her hand

I own 13 houses. 1 primary, 1 vacation and the rest are investment. I am a firm believer in using OPM to finance my P-car habit. The down side is being a landlord and having a full time job can be a PITA.

13!

this is a good site to measure your network against other people in your area www.networthiq.com

House first, rent is like pouring money down the toilet. If for no other reason than taxes, house first. Porsche, when you (not your parents) can afford it. Took me years to get my first one, I'm with Rick about the twenty-something kids with all 'their' net worth, get out the compazine.

Life is short.

Right! We need to talk.. I've been looking for some ATL property.

whats a compazine? i'm a twenty-something kid who moved out 10 years ago with no financial backing not everyone has an aversion to living independantly

Buy a house, get an equity loan and then buy the pcar using the equity of your home. Any interest you pay on the equity loan is tax deductable (it's like a 2nd mortage). Payments are also cheaper.

Only up to $100,000 is deductable. IMO, autos should be bought with cash only. If you don't have the cash, don't buy the car.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement like that. If you could get more ROI than the interest on the loan, or you own a business and lease the car through the corporation you'd be better off not paying for the car in cash.

I surprised at some of the responses in this tread. I thought P Car owners were more savy with thier $$$$$$$.......

Yup, although I don't know about the benefits of leasing so much, if I can get a return of 30% cash on cash from property investments or save 5.5% a year on a car note, i know which i would rather do

Here here. Leverage (debt) is what allows the economy to grow. Apply Dead's logic, most people would have to rent for 30 years before buying a house.

what a ***** you are. desperate for a woman to like you much?

You do not get off that easy, what is Savy to you.

I agree with Riad. If you can lease the P-car for business purposes there are tax advantages to doing so that usually make that a better option than paying cash. In my case I waited a long time for my first P-car and didn't get one until i was in my mid 50's! It has been a great father-son joy as we do track events together etc. My son helped me pick out the car and he helps me take care of it. The experience is priceless. Having this car is no financial burden at this point in my life and if the P-car expense would impact family budget, house, vacations or ______________(fill in the blank) I wouldn't do it. So for me it's house first. But to be completely honest, if I worked my whole life, invested as best I could and woke up one day being mid 50's and I still couldn't afford the P car I'd probably buy one anyway.

Does any one around here own, or lease, fur coats? And if the answer is positive, could we have a sort of statistic if same were purchased, or leased, before or after p-cars? what would be the pros and cons of before or after p-car?

Juts joking, ,of course. Have a fantastic weekend, all of you!

Remember people, it does not take much money to become wealthy. Take a penny and double it for 30 days and you'll have $11,000,000. Take $10,000 and only double it 10 times and you'll have the same amount. If you find it easy to double a few thousand dollars, it is no more difficult to double $1,000,000. It just takes more guts. Assets are meaningless as far as wealth measurement is concerned. You can have $20,000,000 in assets and if it's all leveraged, you're worth nothing. Obviosuly, borrowing against an appreciating asset, if the interest rate is less than the amount the asset is appreciating is a good stratagy, but borrowing on a car or other depreciating asset is foolish, whether or not it is a lease or is or is not written off through a business. It may allow you to live at a level higher than you would normally, but it is in fact, a losing investment no matter how you spin it.

It's also a losing investment if you pay cash for it so where is the logic in this...as are most mods put on a car? Any car no matter how you pay for it is a losing investment unless it is something very special....so you lose a few grand financing...but you don't have to deplete your bank account to buy the car you want. I guess it all depends on the amount of risk you are willing to take.

As my dad used to say "If you can't afford to pay cash you can't afford it".

Most people here can afford to pay cash...some still finance for 2 - 3 years like I did.

You are correct that you lose money no matter how you pay for it, so why would you unecessarily volunteer to lose more money by paying to borrow money on it? This is not to say that buying a car by borrowing is always wrong, but from a strict investment standpoint it will always cost you more money.

I guess I just don't like seeing my bank account take that big of a hit at one time for any vehicle...different strokes for different folks I guess.

I think you would be quite surprised how many people "appear" to be wealthy by their display of cars, home address, etc, that are in fact, barely making their monthly payments. I have been in the money business too many years and know better. Like I said before, what assets you have, mean nothing if you don't own them. You can even go look at the public records at the county records office and see the amount your neighbors are leveraged with their homes. It is quite an eye openner. Kinda like wearing a pushup bra...it's all show.

House first --> then P-Car. In fact, house should come before any other luxury...appreciable asset/security, compared to toys... Of course, if you can have both...ENJOY!

Sucks for them...I took my push up bra off when I was 24 and still finance vehicles for 2-3 years....my logic doesn't agree with yours...and yours doesn't agree with mine...but at least we are both driving P-cars.

Just a risk perspective. Many years ago when I went to purchase my first condo from a finance company/bank I did not have any credit cards but I had all the money to cover the costs etc. The finance company said the bank would not grant me the loan and wanted an explantion of why I did not have them and I explained cash only point of view and I told them to tell the bank that. Later that day they gave me the loan because it showed the bank responsiblity.

IMHO, P-cars are luxury durable goods and are not assets. So leveraging an appreciating asset (like a home) to buy a steeply depreciating car is not the best use of that asset. If anyone wants a P-car that badly, then rent one for a day to get your fix. At least you'll lose just hundreds of dollars instead of the thousands in depreciation, mods, maintenance, insurance, etc... I don't think cars really impress too many smart and wise people these days. Generally cars are all show. I couldn't stomach the 997's steep depreciation curve so I got a 996 instead. As I see it, I got 80% of what I want for 40% of the cost.

Guys, what is the point of all this? For some, owning a Pcar IS the joy of life. If you have to finance your future to own it now, then it's your priority. I don't tell people how to spend their lives and I trust they won't do the same to me. And by the way, I take it none of you ever use credit cards, mortgages, business loans, or lines of credit. Frankly, while paying cash is a good strategy, spending on credit is not necessarily the opposite unless one is irresponsible. Then again, one can be just as irresponsible spending cash as well. Frankly, why buy a depreciating asset at all? For those of you who think house prices can't go down, you need only revisit the United States in the 1920s. There is no sure thing in life, cash, credit, or otherwise....save death and taxes (hey, I always wanted to use that line.)

Ray, you got closer to 99.6% of what you want. Good on you.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you give up your dreams, whether you have the cash or have to borrow. This thread kinda got sidetracked into what was best financialy, and strictly from that stand point, your answer might be different. As far as credit card usage, I charge a few hundred throusand dollars a year on cards, using them for everything from buying cars to groceries. Using credit cards is a great way to increase your investment returns as long as you pay them off when the bill arrives. You also get a nice cash rebate at the end of the year.

I agree. If you have the cash to pay for a car, why not get a car loan and invest that cash in something that will both offset the finance charges and potentially make you more money in the long run�like rental property?

Exactly.

Thanks, NY. I'm piqued by this thread because I know a lot guys who spend every penny of their hard-earned dollar on their cars. While it's their money and their perrogative, I still ache a little for what I see in their future: a nagging wife and a couple of screaming kids that will force the trade of his precious ride for a minivan. Dudes, don't let any woman, child, parent, or boss do that to you. If you could buy your car out-right, and have your other priorties taken car of (house, retirement, college fund) to the satisfaction of yourself and those you love, then you'll get GUILT FREE enjoyment of your p-car (other than the opportunity cost of course). So as much as you can enjoy your leased p-car now, you can be completely in love your p-car once it's yours free and clear. Now that's satisfaction.

Because borrowing money against your car rather than borrowing against the rental property is not the best financial strategy. Borrowing against your car does not have tax benefit and will cost you more. I would have thought that this would be Finance 101 in all schools?

What did your dad drive?

"You are not your freakin' kakis......"

Sorry to keep on with this but....I had a 5.25% interest rate for 2 years on my car and it was paid off in 1 year 9 months...I put more than the cost of the car in Roth IRA accounts over that time and made a 8% return on the cash I would have otherwise spent buying the car outright....hmmm....I would say I passed Finance 101. Like I said, either way you are losing money when you buy a car...just matters where you want to put your money... I don't think there is a right or wrong in either of our points of view...the point is you should not overextend yourself at any time

Athought this is somewhat off-topic, I have to say as someone who buys and sells real estate in the l.a. area, that the market has not only peaked but on the decline. I write offers and get offers that are at least 5-10% off list prices. I'm even seeing owners carry for the first time in 5 years for mid/large size apt buildings. So if you see a good deal, wait cuz chances are it's gonna get better. Better yet, buy commodities like silver or scrap metal.

If I have $100,000 in cash, use it to buy a rental, then take the rental income to pay off the car loan, in a few years you will have a paid for car, a paid for house and continue to have income from the property. However I do agree with you that there are tax advantages with having a mortgage on a house. I did re-finance my properties with low interest loans a few years ago,(my wife is a mortgage broker) and put the cash in other investments.

Curious what you look like in a "Push up Bra".

I use the ones from Walmart.

Cadillac's all the way, I still to do miss driving his front wheel drive Eldorado 1970 something. I had him once buy my 1957 MK11 jag as a project car but was never finished the interior was all beryl wood. The good old days.

You'll never know.

Wow, since you are limited to $4,000 a year in Roth IRA contributions, congrats on buying a P Car for less than $8,000. A liitle eggageration there, maybe?

"House first, rent is like pouring money down the toilet. If for no other reason than taxes, house first. Porsche, when you (not your parents) can afford it. Took me years to get my first one, I'm with Rick about the twenty-something kids with all 'their' net worth, get out the compazine." Sorry, I'm a bit lost. Is this to imply I had any sort of help from my parents? I assure you, it's not the case. It's almost a little insulting.

Big hat no cattle.In texas that means you got the car and thats all you got .houses first then investments. then the cars.My 2 cents. Each to his own.

I though you would never ask.....

And you know financing.

Sorry, I should have put "if" I put.....I guess I failed 1999's Finance 101 and typing 101.... I did pass English 101....it's spelled "exaggeration".

By the way guys, calm down....I'm married.

1999, that is too great. You got us hook, line, and sinker. Been dying to post that pic, eh?

For chrissakes, I have been pretending this is a serious forum, ,all technical and all. Two minutes ago I come in, my daughter with me, and I open the forum with that big bloke all dressed up. People are still looking at me with weird faces here at the house...my daughter is telling me that there is no problem in admiting...that everybody is entitled to choose.....

Ever wish you could unsee something?

the problem is ..that she was really a stunner..

Yes, how about a delete button. That's disturbing.

Thats one ugly bitch or A man? This board is somposed to be about porsches.Houses cars wtf/pimpson.How much for your wife?

Yup, not enough beer in the world to drink "her" up to a 10 .

Huh?

Weird post here. Anyway, to add, I got the car first. Enjoying it young (25). Of course, I just coming out of college and trying to 'make it' on my own, I settled for a used 996 on a loan to keep liquidity. About the house ... well the problem is that in San Diego, the real estate market is in the process/getting ready to fall. Its that rare moment in time when the houses will actually depreciate for the next 1-2(3?) years. Best time to buy is when the markets are down. I calculated I'd still come on top if I rent for 2 years and THEN buy the house with my girlfriend/wife-to-be. Till then most of my savings will go into direct stocks, mutual fund and retirement funds (50-20-30). The left over will go into entertainment (clubs/restaurants/utilities etc) and the remaining into the porsche. Of course, I wish I had the millions some of you guys hint at ! That will come ... sooner than later I hope ! Not everyone who buy the porsche before the house is "lost" !

I think a little part of me just died seeing that picture.

Who posted A pic of there mother.she could get it.AKA as takeing her to the killing floor.AKA the bedroom.

WOW - That pic is so ugly... it cracked my plasma monitor!

I not married and don't feel the need to buy something now so the p-car would come first.... Most people get married first than buy a house even though the right thing to do is buy a house first then get the car even if you are not married. I'm still young so....In the future I shouldn't have a problem being in the mortgage business but a house w/ 200k down payment or more is for me something that is not an option now but to put 30k down when my lease is up or a little more to get out of my car early is something that i'm not worried about. A nice house in nyc area IMHO starts at 1.5 or more...