What's It Worth - Revived Salvage '01 C2

So I found a 2001 C2 with 79K by me. The backstory is it was bought at auction by a Porsche mechanic who replaced the left front fender, front bumper and did the body work on the other affected areas like rear fender, then repainted the whole car. While the paint was laid down OK, the prep work wasn't very good and there is a think line of paint on all the rubber trim due to not removing it. In all honesty, it's a 10-footer. If you are a purist and get up close, you cringe at the little painting mistakes. That being said, it's got a young engine with the IMSB addressed, a new clutch, aftermarket wheels, and is going for $15K. I see it as a way to get into a mechanically sound car with $5K of recent work performed, a fantastic service record, great interior. I don't care about the salvage title, it's being bough to drive and tweak on, not to show or as an investment. My question is, what do you think it's worth? Here's the good: - 79K - IMS Solution - new clutch - original owner had for 15 years and had all service performed by the dealer - very good interior (standard seats, leatherette rear seats, vinyl dash, Alcantara headliner, 3-spoke wheel - Techart wheels - tight suspension - clean PPI with all broken items fixed (leaking radiator, bad window regulator) The bad: - they didn't remove any of the rubber when repainting and there is a tiny bit of paint on just about all of the rubber trim on the car - body work where Bondo was used (one fender, bumper) was low quality and was not sanded smooth - there are a few drips in the paint - the gaps on the replaced fender are off (see photo) - there are little random "holidays", pits, chips or other areas where the prep wasn't done properly, or just a low quality job was done

Buy it and drive it like you stole it.

Pass. Plenty of clean titled cars available for not much more.

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Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If my '99 died abruptly, I'd consider this route - I know that I am going to drive the hell out of whatever 996 I own. If you're certain about the quality of the mechanical work, that's a lot of car for used Camry money. The question that would nag me: if this paint job was good enough, what other work was performed to that spec?

I hear you, but I think there are plenty of awesome mechanics out there that can't paint worth a damn... There are also plenty of great mechanics that have friends who work at auto body shops and can paint over the weekend for a few beers and the cost of the paint.

If everything is maintained it is worth 14k plus. I mean motor mounts, plugs, tranny mount, suspension etc it has the solution and good mid mileage. For 14k it had all the service records it would be a fun car to thrash around in. I think tons of these cars around 20k usually have a few to five years of deferred maintenance on rubber items or brakes. Realistic if it�s ready to drive and doesn�t need anything but oil changes for the next two years I would think it�s worth 14-15k. I wouldn�t buy it, but I think it would sell pretty easy.

If it has service records/you can verify the maintenance, I think it is a good deal. The service records alone make it worth it. Kind of a shame the body isn't the greatest, but at least you can enjoy it without needing to worry about it getting damaged. Enjoy the car and you can always fine another nicer chassis and swap the parts over to it.

I would run. If you hold out you can find a nicer one for the same or not much more

Not for any more than $10K...

15k? I don't think so, you are not far off from getting into a clean title c2 at that point. $13k or less depending on how bad everything looks in person with the body work. I would say $10k would make more sense given the info here.

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Thank you for a rational response and not an opinion.

Really, why? Used motors for these under $100K sell for $9K, plus it's got a new clutch, IMS solution which everyone on here holds in such high regard. Then you have a very good condition interior and aftermarket wheels. If a roller sells for $5-6K and an engine sells for even as low as $7K, seems like $10k might be for a $200K car in poor shape and a salvage title.

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My 02 roller for $4K and used motor with 50K miles for $6K...Clean title.

Bill, don't forget all of your "free" labor (ignoring opportunity cost). Add in what a shop would charge, and you're up in the same ballpark. I don't think $14-15K is unfair for a well sorted rebuild/restored car, especially if it is fully up to date on all maintenance.

The honest answer is that it's worth what the highest bidder will pay. Pricing is always subjective. I personally have no issue with salvage rebuilds assuming it was put back together correct. That's where the problem comes in. Not to side track this but i use to work for a BMW dealers body shop. Lets say a new car costing 100k was crashed and the repair was 40k to fix it. In most cases the car was repaired. The shop i worked at did amazing repairs and had a lot of quality control measures put in place. That being said, that same car crashed the same way 10 years later would be totaled because it now would exceed the value. Same repair would be need, just a value perspective change. Point being, any car can be repaired. The question becomes "who" repaired this one and did they do it correct. I now work as a mechanic instead of painting. We see cars come in all the time that are salvage rebuilds that need to be aligned. Some look great and when i get bored and look them over someone really really did a great shop putting it back together. Others, well, lets just say i can't believe someone at the DMV signed off on putting this thing back on the road. No matter how its repaired the value is always diminished. I would say my answer would be that if an identical car with a clean title was offered for 20k, I would offer 15% to 20% less for a properly repaired car. One thats a little rough around the edges but still has good bones maybe 25% to 30%. The other cars would make me run as fast as i can. While i know you were looking for a real answer i don't think you will find it here. My suggestions would be if the car looks like a good car offer 10k. I would expect him to say no if he did a good job fixing it. Then meet in the middle. If you offer 10k and he says yes, i would be concerned that he knows the car is crap and he is trying to unload it.

Not to mention Bill's situation is more often the exception and not the rule. Find the right person with a roller who is frustrated and doesn't know market values and crazy deals can always be had. Just not often and usually when you don't have the funds available.

I've always used the rule of thumb that salvage/rebuilt titles are valued at 50% of clean. And regular C2$ aren't exactly 30k cars. That being said I agree with the guy who said offer 10k. If you guys find a middle ground and you both walk away happy then there's nothing anyone here can say about it ​​​​​​Lots of insurance companies won't offer full coverage on such titled vehicles as well which is something to think of.

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Even still, he's at 10k before labor. What's a shop charge to R&R a motor? $1500-2000? Assuming it's just a straight R&R.

Oh, also, don't believe all the hype of "mechanic owned". My porsche gets taken care of. My daily driver Benz? not so much. Great car. But most mechanics (yupp, i'm one of them) don't have the time during the day to "maintain" their cars. Then when we get home we don't always want to work on our cars. My Benz runs and drives fantastic for 180,000 miles. Also shines like the new ones. But its needed valve covers gaskets for 40,000 miles and a wheel bearing the makes a little noise. I'll get around to it later..... I would still have an independent take a peek under the covers

Gaps could be off because the unibody is tweaked. It may be worthwhile to get it on an alignment rack to see if it is in spec. You'd hate to wear out tires prematurely, have handling problems, and find out it can't be fixed without getting the car on a frame machine. Joel

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He wanted $8k and it sat for 6 mos on CL...I offered him $5 sight unseen (if what he said was true, "never tried to restart it) and then I got it out of him when we met. Yes he tried to restart it, causing more internal damage, so I offered $4K and he took it. The bottom line is there aren't many people willing to take on a project like this or even buy a good salvage titled car...should you have to sell it down the road, what's it worth to the next guy? My point is, this is not a great deal at $15K.

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Mine was plug and play, did the work myself.

Who performed the IMS solution? That is a big factor. IMS is not the only mode of failure for the M96 motors. $15k is way too high. $6k is more like it. I wouldn't touch it for $6k either.

Well, yes and no. If you have the exact same year/model engine to go back in it is a plug and play. But it is over a day worth of plug and play at whatever your shop's labor rate is ($150/hr wouldn't be unreasonable for a Porsche indy). I think it takes me about 12 hours to R&R, but a professional might do it more quickly. Then add in the ancillary labor for all the "while you're in there" work, and the parts. The last time I swapped an engine I replaced AOS, hoses, belt, filters, plugs, plug tubes, etc. I'd expect the tab to run $3-5K.

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I understand that I am just saying even with paying a shop, a PnP engine swap isn't a huge expense to an already cheap investment.

I feel like I can offer some insight as the 996 I bought was somewhat similar to this situation, except for the salvage title. My advice is to test drive it a few times. If the engine pulls strong to redline, clutch engages well, and shifts smoothly then there�s no reason not to offer like $11k to see his response. The poor paint work gives you a good bargaining chip, in my opinion. You can tell him it�ll cost you a couple grand to redo the work. $15k seems like too much, but not far off from a good deal. As an anecdote, I ended up buying mine for like $12k (with 106k miles), and have probably put in at least $3k in parts getting it to DD status (AOS, oil, coolant flush, transmission fluid, front struts, front control arms, drive belt, idler pulleys, plugs, fuel filter, shifter cables, both regulators). Most of these items weren�t on my radar until after my first few weeks of ownership. Heck, only the suspension stuff and window regulators came up during the PPI.

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Good point. Thanks for the reminder.

To provide context. I'm located in CA where the average 911 for $15K through a private party has around $130K on it, and 4 previous owners. Service around here costs $140-$185/hr depending on if independent or dealer. To repaint a car with factory paint would be about a $7,500 job at a minimum. Here's how I see it... and think of it this way.... a 2 owner, dealer maintained 2001 C2 with very good interior, new clutch, IMS solution, Techart wheels, and original or new paint would go for $20K all day long. Take off 30% for salvage title (assuming it's good repair work) and you get a $14K value. As to finding $4K rollers and $6K engines, you were very fortunate.

Sounds like your decision is already made ........but shoot a lower offer to start

"Thats like hey guys a found a great deal that means you are paying too much." That sounds ridiculous to me. "Hey someones dad gave him his 996, why not do that?" every situation on a used car is different. Ims solution adds tremendous value because of the pre qualification checklist. The miles are good and the maintenance is the stickler on these cars. As a guy said a couple post ago. Spent x amount of dollars to get to Daily driver status. Most 996's are just weekend cars getting oil changes by 97% of their owners. Just because you can get whatever for 20k doesn't really matter. ALL 996's or older german cars cost a ton of money to get to what I would call daily driver status today. We are talking motor mounts, tranny mounts, brakes, brake lines, coolant, water pump, plugs, suspension. ALL rubber items are 20 years old now. Every used car is unique. If this car is salvage and asking 15k and has every maintenance item done and ready to go with mid mileage and ims solution its worth 15k to someone. Its not to me personally. I am just saying someone will buy it. Pretty much all 996's when bought in 2019 need several thousand dollars of little things done to them. They all cost 20k and end up to be 30k. Can you buy a 20k 996 and drive it 4 times a month? yeah sure...But to have something that has everything done is very valuable in the porsche world. Value is always going to be subjective. Several of us would not buy this car. But I can guarantee that its worth that much to someone. You could just do oil changes on it for several years with no major maintenance items and it would be a fun worry free car if everything checks out....That huge.

Let's pretend everything else is the same and it has "Damage" instead of salvage on the title. It would probably be an 18,800, to 19,500 car. So as a salvage with all of the money spent on it I would be looking at it 14,200-15k. Not all savage is junk, most of it is though. If it was all screwed up and unloved then would go down to the 50% value threshold. But some salvage are decent or even nice and there are people who will buy them. It gets your group of buyers down about 80% but there are still people who will see the value in it. I only would recommend salvage cars to people with a lot of automotive experience. But realistically, there is a stamp on the title and the guy saved thousands if it checks out. I would be trying to get it for mid 13's with a cash in your face offer. And move up depending on how much you like it.

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This is often overlooked. The number of us who bought our cars in the $2X,000 range and have, to date, only spent $2X,000 total on our cars is very very low.* *Those of us who have owned our cars for longer than a minute or two.

The red targa that I have decided to keep I bought last august. Some of the stuff is elective but it was all going bad numeric shifter (stock one was super sloppy) brake pads, rotors, stainless lines. Yes all were near the end and my original rubber lines had cracks tranny mount SHOT engine mounts SHOT tranny fluid OLD coilovers (suspension was old) Sway bar bushings and end links (junk) tires (date codes were getting old) spark plugs were 8 years old thermostat wasn’t replaced on last water pump i have done 3 oil changes in 14 months i do all my own work so it wasn’t bad. But these were little things that added up that were needed for me to drive it. Someone else probably wouldn’t care and just do the oil changes once a year. But I keep my stuff in top condition. This stuff would cost a fortune for someone who exclusively takes their car to shops. So that stuff being done changes the value equation to me.

Budget to repaint,, $2000 PER body panel.. 500 for each spot smaller than your hand thats not just a plain chip repair.. That's an average I use and so far its been pretty darn close on almost any car.. My 03 c4 cab with 115K on it I paid 18 for.. But it was a bit of an impulse..

Confirm it has the LN IMS Solution that was properly qualified and go for it. Will insurance be an issue with a "Salvage Title"?

Not everyone will insure a salvage car but its not hard to find someone who will. I had State Farm cover a car I rebuilt back in 2010ish but not sure if they still do. The last one I had was Progressive and if it wasn't Progressive it was Geico. One of those companies wouldn't I know that.

State Farm currently insures my flood salvaged 964 with full coverage. They have for 10 years now.

Salvage is also relative to the state where the title was originally stamped,, In Oregon salvage title doesn't mean squat,, here if your car gets over 2000 dollars damage,, the state will often stamp the title based on the accident report, When you consider 2K is a broken headlight and the 45 minutes to have the dealer replace it,, it could get a salvage title stamp here.. Almost any car that's stolen and recovered gets one. Sucks..

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Is Oregon the state where if you swap the engine you get a salvage title ? I thought it was some PNW state that did that

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Be careful, rational thought can get you in trouble 'round these parts. LOL. In all seriousness, though, you make a good point. I place huge value in it having the IMS Solution. The pre-qualification check list is essentially a giant PPI. I'm still going to do my own PPI and check alignment as another poster suggested. Cheers.

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Good rule of thumb. I need to find myself a professional painter that does side jobs or learn to paint!

In Illinois if the cost of a repair is more than 25% of the market value for the vehicle is gets a salvage title. Given that the market value of most 996's is probably between $15,000 and $25,000, with the upper end being really nice cars, assume any repair over about $5,000 mean a salvage title. On these cars even a fairly minor fender bender, with frame damage, etc. can easily be more than $5,000. Also in Illinois to repair a salvage title car you have to be a licensed re-builder, no home repairs allowed.

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So, you are stating that the pre-qualification check list was completed before the install of the solution? Was it done by Raby/LN? Do you have documentation to confirm that? If so, that certainly helps with the value.

J what's the verdict?

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What I�m saying is if the IMS Solution was installed properly, there is a thorough pre qualification checklist that must be followed that covers more than most PPI aspects of engine inspection. Check out the website or look at YouTube for one of Jake�s videos explaining it.

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Working on the deal still. Trust me, you guys will be the first to know if I get it. ;-)

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Good luck!

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That is only true if a FSI certified installer did the work. You or I can buy any of the IMS products from LN and install it ourselves without any pre-certification whatsoever. Many cars have had the IMS retrofit or IMS solution installed in engines that already have damage.

^THIS^ Confirm who did the work and that it was properly prequalified and you should have a great chance the motor is healthy.

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True. I'm basing my statements on what SHOULD be tested/qualified if installed properly. Yes, going to do do this next week when I have time off. Fingers crossed it was a certified shop.