IMS Increases?

Greetings all! I was on here several years back when I owned my first 996. Everyone was really helpful. Got a general question. About to purchase my second 996 (the first one I sold years ago) and considering doing the IMS replacement. The first car I owned had zero problems and never did the upgrade. This new one I'm considering doing the upgrade but I'm seeing kind of a hike in prices from what I previously remembered and what I've seen one here. Current lowest price I've seen around here was for $3200 for a basic clutch kit and ceramic bearing install. Seems like before these were around the $2k mark? Was just wondering if you guys had some feedback on that? Much appreciated!

That’s the going rate 3-3500 depending on area. 2k is not possible unless you buy the parts and do it yourself.

Welcome back! I don't think the prices have changed too much over the years. I have never known the price to be around $2K. If you've been out of the 996 scene for a while, spend some time reading up on the common issues with them. The IMSB is no longer the major cause of concern for them. Bore scoring is becoming more and more common with them, as well as all the other causes of failure, like broken cylinder liners, etc. Before you buy ANY 996, make sure you have the cylinders checked for bore scoring. More and more people are getting burned by it.

I thought the bearing was 2k installed (retrofit). Then the clutch always needs to be done which depending on the job is another 1-2k. This has been my experience. 4K boxster and 3k 996. Good luck.

Thanks all. I have heard a little bit on the bore scoring but will look into it some more. I'm pretty much on the fence. Part of me says I didn't have a problem before and this car seems to be in really good shape. The other part of me says screw it and get the Solution! lol...but don't really want to spend that. On the bore scoring note...do the 09 newer engines have that problem? I know they are clear of the ims but how about the bore scoring?

Go watch the bore scoring video series You Tube as opposed to listening to "opinions" here...

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That's not the series. That is just one of his earlier videos on the topic. OP, here is the link to the first bore scoring video in the series. Lot's to learn on the subject. You Tube

Labor rates may have increased over time? I've done a couple of them myself, and parts alone will run close to $2k if you do the clutch with flywheel - as I recall, the LN bearing is in the ballpark of $700, plus the clutch kit, flywheel, bolts, RMS, etc. You don't need to do the clutch, but if it is worn, then this is a good time to replace worn parts. The labor to get to the IMS Bearing is the same as for a clutch job, so you pay once for labor instead of twice. If I had a car that I was going to hold onto and it was compatible, I'd opt for the IMS solution. Yes, much more money, but a much better way to address the issue. Losing sleep over bore scoring is a waste of energy. If your car has it, replace the engine, or get it fixed. If it doesn't, then take reasonable precautions to minimize the likelihood of it occurring. Worrying doesn't solve anything, and takes away from your enjoyment of the car.

Please stop, I can't worry about any new issues. Just getting over worrying about the IMS.

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The safest thing you can do is stop reading this site. I know lots of people in real life that have Porsches and don't obsess over any of this stuff. The internet is a big echo chamber that amplifies worry. Go drive your car!

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Summary of main problems, mitigation, and best solutions for Porsche M96/7 engines in a report written by Hartech Automotive technical director Barry Hart. I would add dealers currently use 5w-50 oil so Porsche may have determined this is also a mitigation strategy. IMS BEARING catastrophic failure affects 2.5, 2.7, 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6 litre engines. Original bearing too small with marginal load rating, subject to dynamic lateral loads from chain whip, and tight fit in housing leads to distortion of thin outer race and rapid wear. Some original bearings survive because race and ***** have space for wear particles to migrate out and oil to seep in. Many failures in replacement bearing types using original shaft housing including rollers and those with ceramic ***** due to tight fit, distortion during installation and removal, and fretting in shaft housing. Mitigation � If original bearing has survived 80k miles can leave in place and may have greater time before failure than replacements that use original shaft housing. Solutions � Install plain bearing with oil feed (expensive). During engine tear down remanufacture IMS to fit later and larger Porsche bearing (remove seal) which has load capacity and shell strength to last indefinitely. CYLINDER CRACKING AND D-CHUNKING 3.4 engines. Displacement increase from 3.2 led to cylinders too thin, and only supported near middle and not at top or bottom, eventually cylinder becomes oval and cracks in a straight line or curve with a piece breaking off. Later larger displacement engines didn�t have this problem because cast with different and stronger formulation of Lokasil material. Many failures in replacement liners including ferrous iron due to rotation/slippage and seal failing at head gasket. Mitigation � Support rings can be installed at top of original cylinders to keep from going oval, but these cylinders eventually fail also. Solution � Machine out entire old cylinder and install Nikasil plated aluminum one. Replacement can be �open deck� where still held only in middle, �closed deck� additional support at top, or closed deck with ring added to bottom for support at top, middle, and bottom. CYLINDER SCORING 3.4, 3.6, and 3.8 engines. Material Porsche used to line cylinders (Lokasil) contains many particles of very hard silicone embedded in aluminum. Piston rings eventually dislodge pieces of silicone which wedges between piston and wall. Earlier pistons were coated with hard iron and silicone fleck harmlessly washes into oil and is filtered. Due to environmental regulations iron coating was no longer applied but instead pistons coated with plastic that silicone bits embed into and ride up and down cylinder scoring it. More particles are shed off walls and process accelerates over thousands of miles until oil consumption rises and noise is heard. Rod to stroke ratio and piston pin offset not factors in scoring. Mitigation � Install lower temperature thermostat, use thicker film oil, warm-up before driving hard, don�t lug engine, rev higher, drive vehicle regularly. If originally had good silicone particle distribution and follow recommendations engine can reach 200k miles before scoring, otherwise can score at 15k miles. Solution � Same as cylinder cracking machine out entire old cylinder and install Nikasil plated aluminum ones. Porsche provided no assistance in solving this problem and continued to sell the product. Summary by Daniel Lee. If summary misses or misstates a significant point in original report please inform Daniel and he will correct. Full report including evidentiary pictures available by contacting Hartech.org at [email removed] .

9A1 engine addition to Summary. CYLINDER SEIZING 9A1. Piston heats and expands faster than cylinder especially near bottom. As block ages some lower cylinders shrink and a very small number of engines upon starting piston contacts wall and heat generated micro-welds aluminum particles on piston face that then rub deep grooves into cylinder wall. Process rapidly increases resulting in piston jamming in bore or faces collapsing inwards. Mitigation - Allow engine to adequately warm up before applying large throttle openings, particularly in very cold weather. Solution - Low number of failures likely means no action needed.

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Bore scoring is mainly a very cold weather initial startup problem unless your cylinders are severely worn already.

51 modes of failure and counting. Dont worry about one or two of them. Please dont tell the 996 owner on RL with 350k or is if 400k now on his 996. Its supposed to be a secret.

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My personal opinion on the 996 is have the one you are interested in thoroughly inspected, but also plan ahead. I am not a fan of doing any fixes to them like replacing the IMS bearing. Get a AAA membership and save your money for a potential replacement engine as an insurance policy or a future proper engine rebuild that resolves all of the common issues. There isn't anything you can do to make them reliable short of a full rebuild. No reason to throw good money at it. If you don't truly love 996s, ownership can quickly become a nightmare.

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I think it is more related to longer periods of inactivity along with worn/defective fuel injectors in addition to improper warm up. Not to mention only changing the oil at 5k miles even when that takes years to accumulate. The injectors will allow the detergent (gasoline) to accumulate on the bottom of the cylinders, washing away the oil. Also, less of a problem on M96.01 blocks than later versions due to changes in the original piston skirt lining. Highly correlated to the piston offset on bank 2 as well. The oil should be changed every 5k OR 6 months, which ever comes first. However, ovalizing of the cylinders will affect 100% of M96/97 engines at some point (except those rebuilt with Nikasil liners).

Labor rates are going to vary wildly. It cost me 4k to get my bearing, rms, clutch, flywheels and aos replaced.

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Couldn�t agree more.

Thanks again for the feedback. I've watched have of those videos now. As strange as it is on one hand I feel good about this car and it's history. 1-owner 60k miles. Serviced at Porsche store most of it's early-mid life. Last few years not so much. I am in the car business as well so I do have resources and know my way around certain signs of a car's condition. However, been out of the 996 game for a while and had no idea bore scoring was that big of an issue. I can still pass on it and probably not purchase it but it's very reasonably priced and now tying to decide if it's worth investing a few thousand and have a nice affordable 996....or save my money for a later 997. I'm not exactly in a hurry and will ponder and maybe research if I can find a reasonable late 997. But those sure hold their value!!

997 has the same issues...

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Thanks Bill! So 2009-2012 does as well?

2009 + don't have an IMS, but apparently still suffer bore scoring issues.

All Porsche models have some issues. Dating back to the early air-cooled magnesium cases, the issues were very serious ones. Porsche pushes their cars to higher limits of design in the quest for higher performance, higher output, lesser weight, better unproven material, better manufacturing techniques. When you do that, your engines are going to have bleeding edge problems. We own the best cars, we have to accept the problems. Bore scoring can happen but it does not happen with all cars. If it does, fix it and continue driving and enjoying your car. You can always buy a Lexus.

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Unfortunately, unless you're looking at the Turbo or GT models, the 997.2 with it's newer 9A1 engine has Alusil which has shown to be afflicted by the bore scoring problem just like the 996 and 997.1 cars, but the cases are much more rare. But give it a few years and once the dust settles will see how these newer Porsche engines have held up over time.