996 - The Unloved?

I have been looking at used Porsches, and the feedback that I am getting is to get a 993 or a 997. Is there a deep dark secret here that I am missing?

Please, Be more specific who is giving you the feedback? The 993's are the only porsche ever made crowd? I have news for you the 996 is a much better car IMHO. The 993 is dated and the 997 is going to cost you some coin. With the 996 you are going to get a lot of car for the money. With the release of the 997 and the number of cars built you're going to find some great deals. It does not have that many flaws IMHO. Don't get me wrong the 993 is a great car. You have to figure out which car you like the best, what can you afford and what are you going to use it for. If this is a daily driver there is no way I would buy a 993 over the 996. Look out for the 02's I have been reading that some people are getting incredible deals. The 02 was the first facelift year and 3.6L engine.

Feedback from who? That might answer your question

Unless shopping for a brand new car, I'd pick a 996 over a 997 anyday. JMHO of course...

Oh Lord.....here we go again

Hard to say who was giving the feedback, as it was on a non-porsche car site. I am leaning toward a 996, as it feel it is a more modern car than the 993, and I am not looking for a hard edged sports car. ( I have one of those) I am looking for a reliable, sporty daily driver, and while attracted to the Cayman, would prefer somthing that is further along its depreciation curve. I am also under the assumption the the 996 is more refined than the Cayman, in terms of having a quieter interior.

Just sold the 993 track car and picked up an 02 996 for the street. Seems to be a very nice car.

Well earlier today in this forum we learned that Bill Gates' daily driver is a '99 Cab 996 (link) and his toy is the exotic 959. Uber P-car collector Jerry Seinfeld has pretty much a sample of every Porsche ever made, and from what I understand his favorite is still a beat-up all original 356 from the 50's. So probably the only thing you're "missing" is seat time behind the wheels of all the P-cars you're considering. You are the only one who can decide which one is best for you. Just like Bill and Jerry have.

I think the 996 is a great car. I think the 993 was a great car. Seems that people treat the 996 with some degree of cynicism because the 1999-2000 looked so much like the boxster. People were not happy about that. I think the 2001 onward cars seperated themselves a bit. Who is to say really? Dirve them and buy the one you like best. Simple as that. No one can tell which you should like best.

I am happy I went with the 996 over the 993, soo many reasons why. Its a better car in everyway..HANDS DOWN. Its faster, its way more comfortable, its lighter , its modern, and I love the way the 996 looks. With that being said the 993 is a great car, But may I suggest if you buy one stay away from most other 993 owners as they will turn you into hater too.I have said this in the past I like the 993 , just most of the owners are dick heads.

I see your banghead and raise you a

Don't you love the internet ? You can get an opinion form someone who may have no clue what they are talking about. How many times have any of us heard someone tell you about Porsches, and yet that person has never owned or driven one. ( Then when you tell them you own one they kinda change the subject.) I am new here at Rennlist. What I like about this place is the positive attitude of most here and the constructive suggestions, and of course the sharing of experiences and knowledge regarding Porsches. 993 vs 996. Here is my opinion. The 993 has less plastic than the 996. The engine is more durable. Internal engine / transmission parts are more available. Of course you don't have to worry about any coolant issues. What I don't like about the 993 are oil leaks. This can cost a few bucks to repair. 993 has issues with secondary air codes, which is a subject by itself. The cabs have issues with the cables from the motor to the cab top transmissions shrinking, thus becoming shorter. Sometimes the points where the cab top transmissions bolt on to, will break away. I love the look of the 993. 996. Easier car to drive. More user friendly. The air condition really works ! The price of a replacement engine is actually quite reasonable. In terms of cost, the cost of a Porsche factory 996 rebuilt engine is less than the cost of rebuilding a 993 engine. A concern I have with the 996 deals with the cooling system. I have seen various issues, such as intermix with coolant and oil. Recently saw a TIP trans cooler allow coolant into the trans. I have noticed deposits building up in radiators, which may lead me to believe that it may not be a bad idea to change the antifreeze every couple of years. I personally like the 996 a little more. But then again if you cant decide, maybe you will have to buy both.

4sound: Well said and Ditto on everything except I just like the 993 a little more but in general I love all 911s no matter what series they are Dick AKA "Scott"

if you do a search, you'll find tons of biased feedbacks. Drive them and go with what you like, not what other people like. As for me, I like the rear end of the 993 2s/4s/turbo. As for everyday driver, the 996 is my choice.

Porsches suck...ALL OF THEM.... they: can't be driven "out of the box", you need to mod, mod, mod, they make your wife jealous, because of all the attention you will give the 996 they make you want to move far away from your job...so you have an extra long commute (which makes your wife even more angry...divorse is imminent) they are timeless...so even when you buy one 10 years from now it will still look great, they give you problems every other car can give you...flat tires, oil leaks, strange sounds etc, you can't leave them in the garage, because it's will haunt you in your dreams!! it hates to be dirty, so you have to clean it every day...... 993,996,997 they all have the above problems and more....so if I was hesitating, don't buy a Porsche because you are going to be in trouble one way or they other!! Buy a Toyota Camry consumers report best buy for the last 5 years!

i love all 911s, but I have to agree with Paul... Most 993 owners are the the biggest HATERs in the world. It's like God hand delivered their beloved 993s and shat out the 996

I don't find that to be the case at all. Personally . . . it's not my view . . . I've seen very nice examples of both models . . . and it just really depends on the person as to which one "fits" better. BTW Jon (evo_333) -- if that's your car in your avatar . . . well . . . Scott

the 2002-2004 996 is the most beautiful (inside and out) 911 ever made. just my two cents growing up I was never a fan of the 911 I much preferred the the 928 and 944 they were very 'ahead of its time' look for sports car coupes. The 911 always looked like a glorified VW to me. Until the 996. THat was the first time I thought this is a step forward in design, one that others will follow. The 997 from the front, looks like a rehash of the 959. Not a step forward in the all importatn styling department at a time many are openly questioning the performance of the 911 for the price. Porsche will not be happy with the latest issue of Motor Trend, absolutely spanked by the Z06 and virtually matched by the obviously held back (engineering sacrileage?) CaymanS. Tall gears just to slow it's launch? again, just my two cents. the other night on BBC I saw a late 70's 911 in silver with polished fuchs and tartan seats (that was the 2nd most beautifu). Funny how vintage 911's sart to grow on you.

Wait, I keep telling you the Dodge Dart is CU's all time pick, !!cnm

I love the outside of the 993 (better than the 996), but the inside is to bear bones for me..it looks to dated and cheap and I have to sit in the car more than look at the outside. The 996 has a very nice interior...I almost like it better than the 997 interior...but I am a sucker for new stuff.... If I had the money I would have a 993 turbo with a 996 interior!

I for one prefer the original 996 to the 2002 to 2004 models as well as to the 997. I don't like the look of the 993 at all. I especially don't like the new Turbo OR GT3. I'm speaking of aesthetics only. Performance wise, I'm sure the 997 is far superior to my car, but I swear my car gets better with time. I don't know if I'll ever buy a Porsche again after this one, but I'll wait for the 998 to decide. I have a sneaky suspicion that the next Acura NSX may be a car to covet.

I looked at 993s for 6 months and wound up buying a 996 the first time I drove one. I love the 997, but I'll wait to buy a low mile used one in a few years.

What forum are you in??? WOW.

Yea we are real haters, and not only that: According to a thread at the Boxster forum we do not wave at other porsche owners either! Too bad that the Devil chose the 993 owners to represent him physically on earth.

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I'm currently working toward a 993tt. If I own a 996 C4S Cab and a 993 will I disrupt the space time continuum and go back in time?

Ask anyone who is not a member of this forum about the difference between a 993, 996, 987, 997, etc., etc., etc., and they will report you for a discussion with the trick cyclist. Actually my car is Yellow and I think that it is the colour they hate - not the model - the 90% with silver or black cars never wave to me.......red cars sometimes, they understand me. However, nobody waves to white cars, they obviously are wannabe racers and should be considered differently.

You have presented a very rational view. The love affair that many have for the 911 is however primarily emotional, so which model is objectively superior doesn't mean much to this group of enthusiasts, and of course the pure 911 enthusiast will prefer air cooled over water cooled engines. If you look at what older models are selling for at Barret-Jackson auctions, it's apparent that the love affair that car enthusiasts have for classics isn't restricted to only Porsches.

Given that you already have a "hard edged sports car", I would buy the 996 because it fits your criteria to the letter. Well, maybe you are just have yourself 99% convinced and are looking for that 1% from the rest of us. You are lucky to have the ability to own both types of cars. My observations between the two cars are this. I test drove many of both and settled for the 993, but that was because I could only afford one car. I would gladly have bought both so I could have a daily driver! The 996 is a better performer and is ore civilized. I call it Porsche's version of Levi's Relaxed Jeans. The seats are wider, the cabin more spacious and there are far more creature comforts (including dreaded cup holders ) for day to day driving. The 996 is a transition car between the 993 and what is now the 997 in a similar way that the 964 series was a transition between the Carrera and the 993. Because of that the prices are a little bit softer, so you get a lot of car for the money. Yes, the 996 has a lot of critics and many points are valid ones, but they really are not issues that would affect your wish list if I read what you want correctly. Personally, I would not listen to anybody's advice (mine included). Do your own evaluation and buy what your heart says is right for you. Good luck with your search!

As I said most are, You have to be honest if you go over to the 993 forum , it seems they love taking shots at the 996 and boxsters.I love the 993 and always will, and in fact my best, longest friend in the world has one of the best 993s i have seen(C4S).He knows and realizes that all 911 are "True sports cars". I think the devil wouldn't even drive a Porsche something tells me he would drive a Lambo Diablo.Getting back to the thread drive both and go with what you like best, as long as its a Porsche you cant go wrong.

I have been reading this thread and you guys are too funny...I guess I am a hater wannabe racer since I own a white 993. Just get the car you like..who cares what others think. If you only going to have one car, and can't afford a 997, then buy the 996. Great daily drivers....but If you already have a daily driver and want a fun car for weekends, etc, then get a 993.. they are just Great!

You're also a poser because it's a cab. So let's recap, you have a white 993 cab... dude just get a pink Geo Metro.

I had a chance to park my butt in one, (2001 996) and tool around in it for a while. It is all that I wanted, and then some. Now to find the perfect one for me........

What do you mean? I already do...how did you know? Do you work for the goverment or something?

I thought it was "Poseur"....

Hey watchout...you can call me anything you like...but I'm not French!

What's wrong with being French?

Nothing...I just don't understand when I'm insulted in french

I'll never understand asking folks which car to get? The 996 guys love their cars as do the 993 folks, as do the Carerra guys, etc. Ultimately, you are the only one who can pick your own car. Hang out on Rennlist, research the archives, listen, but most importantly drive any car you are considering and make your own decision. The looks, the driveability, etc. They're all great...they are Porsche 911's for Chistsakes!

I drive both types all the time. The only problems I have with the 996 is that the interior is kinda cheap looking and the motor blew up at 17K miles and I had to fight with PNA to get a replacement at N/C. The Stealer also told me that the car has to be driven a minimum iof 6K a year or the waranty is voided? Ahh 996 quality. I hate the 993 air conditioning and the Drive Block key thing. I do think the 996 is easier to drive very fast and the wife thinks it is an easier car to drive and the 996 is kinda cute. But we like the 993 because it reminds us of the 70's vintage Porsches like the 73 911T. And it takes some skill to drive fast. But since we own a 993 we must be Haters. But we are NOT *********. WE ARE GIANT FIRE PISSING *********.

What's a 996?

LOLZ... that's funny

I thing you have summed up very well..... You seem to be permanently caught in the transition between 993 and 996..... and while CABRIO993 has expressed his problems about being Frenchphobic in a white 993 cab you are crying because you miss just such a car, yet you appreciate the 996. You realise it is now very hard to generalise about you (without getting too personal or rude)

Irish, It is no transition problem. They are two different cars just like Harp and Guinness are two different beers. You guys started this war, and we are big enough ********* to continue the battle inorder to make you guys feel justified with your negative comments. As for the French, I feel that they make great cookware, great recipes, great wine and cute woman's clothing. So they throw a hissy fit once and awhile. Also for the record I totally dig yellow Porsches. The local dealer had a Yellow CGT that was out of this world.

Dude...I think the one with the problem is someone else. Who said I was frenchphobic? Does your comment makes you a "whitephobic"? If you knew where I am from, you wouldn't be making such idotic remarks. I was making a comment about the spelling of the word "poser" or "poseur" as someone was insulting me in both languages. Irish...I would sugest that in the future, if you are going to make such a personal attack on me, please PM me first so you can get the facts before you put your foot in your mouth.

Golly Geepers...Can't we all just get along? Now can we get past all this crap and will somebody post some good stuff about new mods or how to fix something? These kinds of threads are worse than day-time soaps! (and I can say that...my Aunt used to be executive producer of one) Not sure whats more entertaining...this thread or the re-run of Curb Your Enthusiasm on HBO right now.

The 993 and the 996 are both great 911's as are their brethren both before and after. Unfortunately, some just don't see it that way. IMHO, they cannot see past their personal preferences to acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of each generation of the 911. Furthermore, there are clearly a few 993 owners on this board (that's a select few, not most, or all) that have an inferiority complex over the performance gap between the 993 and the newer Porsche models. If it's new it's bad case closed. You gotta feel a little sorry for them.....

I love all 911's, from 1964 - 2006 The 993's are classic and the 993tt maybe the most beautiful car every created. The 996 is a bit more modern which I need because it's a daily driver. The 997 is more improved, and it looks like the 997tt is going to be a killer Porsche. There are people in this world who have serious problems, health, poverty, you get the idea. Arguing over our Porsche's makes me feel like a complete ***. Sorry for the rant. Rob

...Sorry Cabrio993... I was just ribbing people because I can't take this Porsche Versus Porsche waffle seriously. My decision to Move from a Porsche 964 to a Boxster was very influenced by the class structure in the Porsche slalom championship. I also have a 356 and a couple of 914/6's. I'm even bidding on a 924 Carrera GT right now !! My dream is to find a clean Porshce tracktor - 3 cylinder Super from 1959 please. The Basic boxster is simply the best car for class 1 in the slaloms. In the mean time my wife loves the car topless in the summer (the car, not the wife) and I like its small size and how you can throw it around. It really is a magic slalom car. I am considering a 996 now (best car for class 3). But the boring millions have flooded the market here with second hand black and silve ones. Where are the other colours? Even white is better than silver (ok Silver car owners, flame away). The point is: Drive what you like and like what you drive. What else matters?

Porsche do not make bad cars and each model is - generally speaking better than the last one. But you gotta love them all. I still remember my 944 turbo with great fondness and I just dont try to compare it with my 996. Buy the one you like, it will be going better than you 30 yrs from now.

Rob, in this topic, as in many others, we agree completely. I really think this type of debate is a total waste of time, and when someone starts in with me about how their car is superior, it makes me think they need to get laid a little more often. TD

Ok, Ok, Ok...enough is enough. The 996s, 993s, 964s and 911s are all great cars. What we need is something to bring all 911 owners together. We need something we can all hate. Let's pick on the 914s!!! They really suck!!! Kidding of course mark This is an entertaning thread.

Scott

That was taken out of content, it was directed at a few members, not all. There is a reason why I said that, and they know who they are, I can�t believe you guys have 4 pages of this. I said it I am not sorry I said it! Again it was not directed at all of you, I never insulted your cars, I insulted some of the owners. I mean my car does look" like a Boxster" and it isn�t a� real Porsche� so what do I know? I have had a few PM's of this and most of them agreed with my statement, and they were from other 993 guys! I think most of you have seen the humor. Thanks Jim B...That was my point. I think some should read the post. I did not insult the car, just some owners. Can you really deny what I said in the post is not true. Maybe it wasn�t really fair, and I would explain why I said that but in the end it wouldn�t matter. If you took it personal you shouldn�t have it wasn�t directed and you...They know who they are. I Posted this in the 993 forum first, I think I pissed a few of them off with my previous post. Oh well maybe some of them get it.

I have a 993 and a 996 and eventually will buy a 997....... I love them all regardless. Actually I am a little frustrated at how difficult it is to work on a 993 compare to the 996. Took me 3 hours to changed out all 12 spark plugs on my 993, 4 hours last weekend to change out the P/S belt, 4 hours to change the dual distributor belt the week before.......etc...etc... Changing out the SAI valve....this weekend and debating if I should take the varioram out to change out the oil pressure sending unit..... Bruce Anderson said "Buy the newest Porsche you can afford" My 993 in a middle of a major service.....

Robin, I found the same thing back when I was a Stupid ********. Every 993 project seemed to take twice as long and require three times as many tools as the same one on a 996. I always assumed that was the result of the Japanese consulting. Having said that, I do miss looking at the 993. Jim

Yes, we all need to get laid more often. Well maybe Ron Jermey doesn't

Jim, That's funny I actually was going to post something about that, but decided not to in the original post. I have spent countless hours on older 911s, so I am some what familiar with the typical Porsche 911 construction components and their choice of components. I was a little surprised when I started to wrench on my 996 recently to find that construction components of the 996 is a departure from what a Porsche 911 was. That's not to say there is anything wrong with it, it is actually quit refreshing and exciting to find the clutch slave cylinder bleeder nipple relocated to an easier access, to find a "real" belt tensioner, Japanese car like door hinge and door check strap, oil filter cartridge, snap together interior pieces, different clips for the underpanels...etc.... The whole time I was just wondering if Porsceh's engineers have finally swallowed their pride and accepted other designer's work, or did they just hired all new designers... Obviously foreign consulting is not out of the question also. FWIW, I think it is wonderful how the 911 have progressed and moved on. On the flip side, now my $15k worth of tools gets little use.

So far, we have 60% of 993 owners that admit being *********.

I guess I'm a wannabe "********"! Actually I love all the 911 series and would be really happy to get into a nice 996. In fact I may do so in the not-too-distant future, there are some amazing deals out there. Bottom line, they are both good Porsches and if you shop carefully you will get a great car.

No problem! .... and exactly!

It's ok Allan you are in!

here here.... from a future ********

trust me . . . you are already there

Wow, I realize the 993's are slower but you're almost a month late.......try and keep up.....

Fred2, why don't you buy one of each? and since you're at it, get a 964, truly, the last classic 911 Cheers to you all!

If 993 people are *********, 996 people with white cars are posers , then what are 928 owners? Evangelical and ignorant? Maybe.

Oh, I don't know, let's say fat and lazy? just joking, just joking, I couldn't resist with that opening but I know how sensitive you big girls are

What is considered a good deal? Every where I look low-mileage cars seem to over $50K. From a depreciation stand point that doesn't seem to be all that great. 2005 997 cars can be bought for in the $60's.

This is the dilema that I am finding in my research. It is alawys that for just $5000 more, you could have a newer one. I seem to be working my way up from an 99 to a new one in $5000 increments.

Oh man, that article will NOT die.

Having owned 7 different Porsches, from a 356 up to a 996 with a Boxster thrown in for good measure, all I can say is I can't wait to pick up a good used 997 when the prices are reasonable. Does that mean I don't like my 996 - no. It just means I used the damn thing up and it is time to move on. As always the best advice is to buy the newest Porsche you can afford and then drive it. I have never had a bad one. They are all different in their own ways. Yes, I think the 993 body looks nicer than the 996, but then the 996 cabin is nicer and it is better daily driver. But I would have no problems with either. But someday there will be 997 parked in the garage. And I will thank the first owner for eating the depreciation for me.

From a design standpoint, I like them both, though they are very very different. Does anybody know who the head designer to the 996 is? I always like that picture Porsche has always had (as long as I can remember) with all of the 911 models leading up to the current one. All of them look so...so German, until you hit the 996 and that looks like it was designed by an Italian. Both are nice designs, but obviously very different. As far as deals on '02s, my dad got his from a dealer with 2 months left on the factory warranty and a 3 year bumper to bumper extension (from the dealer, no exclusions that weren't in the factory warranty...yes that's in writing) for $45k (it has around 45k miles on it). If I were going to spend $60k, I rather have a new Cayman S than a used 997 (though if 60k got a new 997 I rather have a new 997 than a new Cayman S).

Pinky Lai did the 996 but he and Grant Larson (who did the Boxster) worked alongside to make sure that many design elements could be shared (cost management was a major issue for PAG back then). FYI trivia: Grant Larson is responsible for the 997; i've met him several times since he and my brother studied auto design at Art center in Pasedena many moons ago...good guy, car nut too.

I just wanted to add this: DRIVE your P till it fall apart and when it gets to expensive to fix it, get a newer one! I love the 993 body, but the interior looks a little to kit car for me......the 996 interior is better looking, but the outside (especially in the 99-01 series) is not that great--> never got used to those headlights!......the 02-04 headlights are nicer....and then came the 997 (WOW about the outside!) looks like a cross between the 993 and the 996) but the interior?!?? I don't know...looks a little to retro to me...BUT in a year or so..I will make the switch...because I love the way P's have evolved....and they are getting better and better!!

The responsible designer for the 996 is Harm Lagaay. Never heard anything different. see here

Harm Lagaay was the head of design for PAG at the time, but it was Pinky Lai who was the lead designer of the 996, Just like he was head of BMW Technic studio during the development of the Z1 and oversaw the designers (including my brother) who actually penned the design. Read "Perfection by Design": great book and it outlines the development of p-cars very accurately.