Test drove this car a few days ago...

Hi Everyone, I just recently started searching for a used Porsche. I'm looking for a 2002 Carrera Cab MT. I just happened to see this car during lunch the other day and ended up test driving it. http://prestige-infiniti.ebizautos.c...Carrera-Coupe/ I was wondering what you guys think about the price. I know it's not exactly what I'm looking for but it seemed pretty good for the options; but since I'm new to Porsche I wanted some professional opinions from you guys. I noticed it turned over a little slow like it had a dead battery and it had a ticking noise (almost like valve ticking) when it first started. After it warmed up it was pretty quiet. Let me know what you think... Thanks, Wade

Wade....that is actually a GREAT deal! I just moved here from Vegas. So....if you really like it (or any other P-Car) make sure to take it to get a FULL PPI. Suggestions? Carl's Place over on Meade Ave just off of Valley View (b/t Sahara and D.I.). The owner (Tony) is an awesome guy and I spent many a days over there shooting the **** with him. He is very active in the local PCA chapter and used to be the past prez. Really knows the cars inside and out. Great place to get non-warranty work done as well. Feel free to tell him I sent you over there, he will take great care of you! Tell him I said hi

Price is good if the car checks out. Make sure no body work, title is clean, check warranty and service history w Porsche dealer w VIN. One of the lowest priced 02 I've seen. Tranny failure, RMS, MAF are common failures. Also, 50k is quite a lot of miles so brakes, fluids, plugs and belts are probly due if not done already.

Dell - Thanks for the heads up on the PPI! I'll make sure to let him know you said hi if/when I see him. I'm really trying to figure out if I want to go forward with this one...like I said I was really in the market for a Cab. I test drove this one as well and it was pretty much exactly what I wanted but a little pricey... http://gaudin-jaguar-porsche-aston-m...px?iid=1064343 I don't know if the sales guy at Prestige Infiniti was BSing me but he said it was owned by a guy who owned his own maintenance shop. That would be quite a coincidence if it turned out to be Tony. Wade

That market price they listed is totally inflated... But the price they're selling it for isn't bad.. Non S cars don't really fetch the premium that S cars do, but you'll always pay more from a dealer than private party... I have 50k miles on my car and its 10 yrs old so someone drove the hell out of this thing... Happy shopping...

That was not Tony's car. But, if you do go with Gaudin make sure and talk to Mike Shiffman. I have bought 2 cars from him in the last 4 years and he is awesome. No B.S. and just a great guy. Tell him what you are looking to spend on that car, make the offer, and see if he can do it. If not, just leave. Trust me, he will make sure yo sell you the car at YOUR price. That's the way I have done business with him. I tell him what I am going to pay and if he can't do it a that price, no biggie, and then I go. Never needed either of the cars I bought from him but at the price I offered and he agreed I couldn't refuse it. He'll really take care of you. I acutally got a letter form him a couple days ago. Let me know if you need any help

You guys are fast responders! That's good because I don't really have anyone to vent this frustration out to. My wife said she can see that I have "Porsche on the Brain Syndrome" but at least she is supporting me through it. I just got pre-approved through my bank for a 55K loan. I plan on putting down about 7K. The apr is 7.99% @ 72 months. That will be the highest payment I've ever made on a car so I've been trying to find exactly what I want. Thanks for the feedback!

OUCH!!!! 8%? Right now there is a thread over on the 997 board about a credit union called "penfed" I think that is about 6%.......I can't think of the thread but give me asec and I will find it. I just checked with my bank and the rate is 5.99% for 36-72months on new and used over $15k (USAA). Definintely shop around for your loan rate. That is way high!

Here's the thread with all the PENFED info. Read the entire thread b/cit gets much more clear as the thread gets sorted out https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=penfed

also patelco in cali have rates at 6% all you need is an experian fico of 680....

OUCH!!!! 8%? Right now there is a thread over on the 997 board about a credit union called "penfed" I think that is about 6%....... Yesterday I received a brochure from the Point Breeze Creedit Union in MD offering an eleven month CD at 5.6% APY. I believe their loan rate for used cars is in the 7s. So obviously it pays to shop around. Tell him what you are looking to spend on that car, make the offer, and see if he can do it. If not, just leave. That's the way I've been shopping for cars for the last 15 years and it works. Car salesmen count on their customers falling in love with the car, thereby paying thousands more than they have to. On several occassions I've been told that my offer was ridiculous, only to be called a day later and be told that they are willing to sell at the price I suggested. Even with low production cars like the 996, there are lots more cars than buyers. So we as buyers have the advantage, as long as we are willing to walk away.

fast1...you couldn't have said it any better!

Check out http://www.calstate9.com (My local Credit Union) 4.49%

1st one good price, nice car...the 2nd one...grey interior YAK!!!....and expensive for only 10K miles less

Got 4.49 on a 3 yr and 5.49 on a 5 yr... Credit unions are the dogs business.

Thanks for the great feedback - I'll check those places out for a better rate. Unfortunately I don't have the greatest credit score but it's worth a shot. For some reason my wife has embraced the thought of owning a Porsche I'm actually kind of suspicious. Anyway it gives me time to really think about what I want out of this car. I'm not really interested in performance modification so I'm not looking for anything more than a standard Carrera. When I was in my teens/early twenties I had Camaro's and Mustang's that I modified but that took a lot of time and money. By late twenties/early thirties I was done turning wrenches and just wanted good stock performance/reliability/warranty - I had an Audi A4 1.8T and BMW M3 convertible. Now I'm 35 and I really want a car that has great stock performance but I also want to use it for short road trips - so stuff like cruise control, navigation, trip computer, good sound system would be nice. I do miss driving with the top down in my M3 so a Cabriolet is on the list of requirements. One thing I don't miss about having a nice care is the anxiety of taking it out on the town...things like not being able to eat without peaking out the window, wondering if you'll find a door ding when you get back to it, or wondering if someone will vandalize the top or key the paint...ugh - it's all coming back to me. Well we'll see if I can find the right car first then I'll start worrying... Thanks, Wade

If you want a cab, you should get one instead of coupe. 02+ 996 Cabs have excellent soft top w glass window and it's very well lined and insolated. Don't get a coupe because of price alone. Also, the second car has CPO warranty which is worth over $2k itself. Still get a PPI since the CPO inspection is a joke. Nothing wrong w gray interior, much better than blue IMO. Of the 2, I'd go w second bc it's really what you want.

Is the 4.49 still available? I'd like to borrow at least a million from them and deposit it at the Point Breeze Credit Union where they are paying 5.6% on a 11 month CD.

I'm 35 as well and grew up on Camaro's and Mustangs and most recently Corvettes and M3's. I also considered a cab (never owned a convertible before) but I bought a 02 C4S coupe about 3 weeks ago and love it. When I was looking, the asking price for cabs was a lot higher than coupe. Obviously because it's August. Good Luck in your search!!! I'm sure you'll find exactly what you want

new pilot i have to echo this big time! if you have cab on the brain you need to get a cab. There is nothing like cruising top down (8-10 months a year in our region). i once went 3 months only putting my top up to make sure it still went up! one thing you could consider is to have a dealer find you what you want at auction. also: I just did a lease option for you on the porsche site and on a brand new Carrera Cab with 10k down you can get your payment to $996 per month on a 60 month lease. If the car is worth more than the payoff at the end of the lease you could sell it outright and pocket the difference. With a lower fico, figure to add maybe 100 bucks or so to your monthy...also i have found my local p-car dealer willing to start pricing me out cars at 3k-5k under sticker! A lease may be a good option for you sincce you are not a big mod guy! My lease has worked well for me!

Holy crap Jason! 10K down and 5 years of "ownership". That's worse that a cell phone contract

That is a smoking deal and the car appears to be pretty well "optioned". Good luck!!

possibly! but if you were only planning to keep it for 5 years it may work for him. he will be out 70k total in 5 years. residuals are relatively strong now so at the end he might just have a little equity in the car. If he wants no hastle then he could return it. If he wants to try to make a little cash he could try to sell it. the bottom line is this deal gets him in with a relatively low payment on a NEW and warrantied vehichle. i'll give you an example dell: 1)I went 9k upside down on a 530i when i vbought my p-car (stupid and emotional) i put down 5k and now at 3.5 years i am almost even on the outright market) 2)my buddy purchased a new m3 at the same time, non upsidedown crap for him and 2k down. he pays 100 less per month than me and at 3.5 years he is just breaking even now too. different cars i know but leases are all about the strength of thet residual. if its strong you can get out unhurt and for similar ir better money than a purchase

70k is a lot of $$$ to waste. If he buys a used 02 for let's say $50k. He can probably sell it for $25k after 5 years. That's only losing $25 in 5yrs ($5k per year). Assuming he buys it cash. If he finances it, assume he's lose an additional $5k in interest, costing him 30k over 5 yrs ($6k per year). 30k is a lot better than losing 70k.

That is what I would do too. Get what you want, or you'll never be totally happy with the other car. I looked for aout 6 months before finding my car, and it turned out to be well worth the wait.

Sounds just like my progression: 97 Z-28 -> 99 M3 Cab -> 03 911 Cab Could not live without the cab either. I will always have one in the stable.

your numbers don't lie however, lease new and he is rocking a new 911 with a warranty buy used and you are driving a great car but you are flying free (rms, intermediate bearing, etc etc) plus he is looking at 72 month financing so he will be paying closer to 50k i don't think it unreasonable to hope for 5-10k in equity at the end of a 5 year lease. i am at break even at 3.5 years either way i just want to give him options so he can live the dream!

I appreciate all the info - you guys definitely bring up some things to consider that I haven't thought about before. I am a little nervous about reliability issues but I'm hoping that since it's used any problems would have been already hashed out - that along with CPO or some other extended warranty would make me feel more comfortable. Wade

I think that is a good point about a lease. Seriously if you are somewhat payment shopping and you are concerned about repair bills on a used car then if monthly expense is the same I would do a 3 year lease on say a 2005 997. You could probably find one for the same payment as buying a used 996, but you'd still have factory warranty throughout the life of the lease. If the cash outlay is the same I think I would go that route. If I had 50k cash and was not conerned about repair bills then I would probably go with car #2 since that is what you really want. Either way, make sure you work out all budgetary constraints before you buy. Happy hunting. There is a car out there that will work for your needs, and budget.

One a three year lease, I would probably agree. I was referring to a five year lease. If you leased a new car for 5 yrs and put 10k miles a year, you would have 50k miles on the car after five years and would surely have to spend money on tires, brakes, repairs, etc just like you would buying a used 02. I personally chose a used 02 over a new one because I bought it cash. If I was financing or leasing, it could make sense to buy new.

i did not even do the 3 year calculation till now 1087/ month! with 10k down on a three year deal...that may well be worth it!

Just an update on the coupe I test drove - The salesman called me back and read me the car fax. The car was originally leased out of Beverly Hills in 2001 then in Feb 06 it was bought by the guy who traded it in at Infiniti supposedly because he couldn't afford the payments. Everything else showed up clean, no damage, no recalls, etc... He also got approval for me to take it out for a PPI - they said I could take it out for a couple of hours. I'm on the wall at this point - seems like such a good deal. I have to think hard about this one. Wade

About what? Price? If it is exactly what you wanted? Too good to be true? What?

Well that just got interesting. Seems like a good price on the coupe. I still say when buying one of these it is better to go with the one for which you have the most passion over the one that seems the best deal, but I tend to make nonsensical passionate decisions about my cars. Sometimes rationality is a good trait.

LVDell - The dilemma is that I really wanted a Cab but they are at the top end of my budget. This one is very doable as far as monthly payment. This is also one of the best deals I've seen on an 02 and it has all the options and colors that I'm looking for but it's not a Cab. So I'm trying to figure out if I should just purchase it, hope for a trade up later into a Cab, and just be happy with a reasonable payment for the time being... But this is also out of warranty so - just another thing to ponder. Wade

2 windows down and a sunroof open could work? But if it is a CAb you are really after, then be patient or you are going to ALWAYS wonder why you didn't.

I just spoke to Carl's Place they said they could do a PPI for $95/hour. They said it should take one hour and they'll let me know if there is any reason it will go longer (ie they see anything suspicious). They are faxing over a four page list of things they check and they said I could get it in tomorrow morning. I don't know maybe I'll check it out...doing some soul searching now. Wade

as is?

Yes I'll be looking at an extended warranty.

Keep us posted! Tell Tony and "the Guys" I said hello.

If you have your heart set on a cab, I'd wait for the right cab to show up...

There are a number of low mileage 2002 cabs some with CPO found on a search via www.porsche.com . I used the criteria of 50-60k cab 2002. SOme good looking ones out there. I think if you really have your heart set on a cab, then you should find the right one. They are always out there.

Dell - I just came back from dropping the car off at Carl's place. I spoke to Tony (great guy - gave me lots of good advice and info) and told him you said hi. He said that you moved to North Carolina around June and that you were a good guy. Dell, blk on blk and s14roller - You guys are right - I had a chance to drive this coupe over to the shop this morning and and I didn't get the same feeling as I got driving the Cab. One of the things I liked about the Cab was listening to the exhaust as I was going through the gears. The coupe was more of a rumble from the engine compartment - which was nice but not as nice as listening to the exhause note on the Cab. Well I was able to copy down the options from the trunk lid and I'm going to go through those now. Tony said it was a beautiful car and a pretty good deal (as long as the PPI comes back ok). If I don't end up getting it I'm out the $100 for the PPI but I'll just chock it up to getting familiar with the buying process. I'll keep you guys updated... Wade

Tony is a great guy and will take good care of you. $100 is nothing in the grand scheme of things when you are trying to find the perfect car for you. As most will agree, hold out for "your" cab or you will not be happy. Keep us posted!

I decoded the options in case anybody is interested... C02 Catalytic Converter 438 Electric Right Seat 586 Left Seat Back Support 936 Rear Leather Seats 226 ?? (18" Wheels Possibly) 448 Colored Crests 601 Litronic Headlights 981 All Leather Lining 288 Headlamp Washer 476 Brake Pad w/ Abrasive Pad 662 PCM Navigation 983 Leather Seats Front and Rear 411 License Bracket Front 513 Driver�s Seat Lumbar 680 Hi Fi Sound system w/ booster 437 Comfort Seat Electric Left 537 Seating Position Control Left 692 CD Changer 00501 ??

I see 501 as "Turbo Insignia" from the list I have?????

The Cab's suspension heigh looks "slammed". And too much to even be ROW sport susp. But maybe its the angle of the photos.

Well I ended up passing on the coupe. The PPI showed some stuff that I'm not comfortable with including rough idle that they tried to play around with and got no results. If anything it made me re-evaluate some of my requirements. I tried using the navigation to get to the service place and after a couple of turns I thought that it was showing it's age. The ones I've used had a lot more resolution, scrolling maps, mutli view, etc... This one worked but it is something I can do without. So I ended up looking at the Cab offered by Gaudin and took down the option codes. They are as follows: 288 Headlamp Washer 438 Comfort Right Seat 340 Seat Heating System Right 476 Traction Control 411 License Bracket Front 513 Right Seat Lumbar 139 Seat Heating System Left 424 Automatic Heating Control 537 Left Seat Positrol Lumbar 226 18� Wheels 437 Comfort Seat Electric Left 551 Air Deflector Cabriolet XSC Crest on Headrest X76 Flared Rocker Panels 00501 18� Wheels ? 09991 Manufacture from the exclusive-programme? And I ran a carfax as follows (sorry about the formatting): Year purchased 2002 Type of owner Private lease Estimated length of ownership 3 yrs. 9 mo. Owned in the following states/provinces Florida Estimated miles driven per year 10,220/yr Last reported odometer reading 40,533 07/24/2002 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Oshkosh, WI Registered as private lease vehicle 07/24/2002 498 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Oshkosh, WI Title #0086095284 Odometer reading reported for title or registration 08/01/2002 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Oshkosh, WI Title #0086095284 Title issued or updated First owner reported Registered as commercial vehicle Registered as lease vehicle 10/12/2002 3,916 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 11/15/2002 4,736 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 02/16/2003 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Oshkosh, WI Title #0086095284 Registration issued or renewed Registered as commercial vehicle Registered as lease vehicle Vehicle color noted as Blue 09/19/2003 13,511 Service Facility Vehicle serviced 02/07/2004 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Fort Myers, FL Title #0086095284 Registration issued or renewed Registered as commercial vehicle Registered as lease vehicle Vehicle color noted as Blue 03/01/2005 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Fort Myers, FL Title #0086095284 Registration issued or renewed Registered as commercial vehicle Registered as lease vehicle Vehicle color noted as Blue 03/18/2005 Florida Motor Vehicle Dept. Fort Myers, FL Title #0086095284 Registration issued or renewed Registered as commercial vehicle Registered as lease vehicle Vehicle color noted as Blue 05/16/2006 40,373 Auto Auction Sold at auction in Florida Listed as a fleet vehicle 06/07/2006 40,533 Auto Auction Sold at auction in Florida Listed as a dealer vehicle 07/20/2006 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale 08/10/2006 Porsche Cars North America No recalls open for repair Not Reported Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale I was wondering what you guys think about the time from 3/18/05 to 05/16/06. It looks like it was turned in from the lease but what happened to it in that time frame? They gave me some numbers as well - basically it woud be 8K down and 840/month. Does that seem like a good deal to you guys? It's pretty close to my budget but I don't want to jump the gun. One last thing - the Carrera badge is missing off the rear...the dealer said they are ordered that way sometimes but I think someone debadged it. Is this a big deal to put back on? Thanks for your input! Wade

Looks to me like a dealer drove it for a couple of hundred miles, then flipped it. As for the badge, not a big deal to get another and put it on.

If it wasn't an "option" listed then I would investigate the rear! Could be that it was "just" removed but it could mean that it was worked on. Also, the price they are asking on that car is WAY TOO HIGH! One more thing, that has some aftermarket suspension work done. there is NO WAY that is OEM.

I got the price down to 51K. As far as the suspension - what happens if I do have problems with the suspension and it turns out to be an aftermarket. If I bought it that way is it covered? Should I have Carl's Place do a PPI on this before I buy it? I thought a Porsche CPO would guarantee it's within manufactured specs. Thanks, Wade

DEFINITELY! $100 well spent. Not even close!

You guys have a very good eye! I went back this evening to look at the wheel well clearances and it was plain to see that there was something going on. I talked to the salesman and he also said it's obvious. He is going to talk to the used car manager tomorrow morning. I'm glad I have you guys watching my back! Wade

might be a good thing...could be pss9!

If it isn't listed on the option codes then it's most likely aftermarket. Does that mean no Porsche CPO warranty? I'm waiting to hear back from them this morning. Wade

They can still CPO the car just anything that is not OEM will be not a "warrantable" item should it fail.

Well I guess this one wasn't meant to be. I took the car over to Carl's Place and had Tony and a mechanic just put their eyes on it for a second. He didn't charge me anything - he just said swing by on the test drive and they'll look at it (thanks again to Dell for the referral!) They said it had H & R Springs on it and everything else looked good. So I went to the dealership but they wouldn't come down on the price. In the end I walked a way with a couple of payment options but it was just too high: 1) 10,200 down and 800/month for 72 months 7.99% through Bank of the West 2) 7,000 down and 1005/month for 60 months 8.9% through Porsche selling price $51,000.00 I also checked an extedended warranty and they gave me a price of 5,700 for 100,000 miles/5 years...ouch (IMO). Well I'm going to get rid of this headache and relax for a while. It's a nice car but it's not the only car. Thanks to everyone for the great advice and help with this process! The search continues... Wade

Hang in there wade and don't be surprised if they contact you again on this one!