Good pricing guide for 996

Aside from KBB and NADA are there any good market price guides for a 996? These two sites are way apart. For older cars I always used Hagerty. Also what is a rule of thumb for factoring in IMS retrofit, mods etc. Thanks

Your best bet is to plug the year, model and trim into autotrader, set the distance for any, and see what you can get one for. The prices tend to vary quite a bit. A lot of times they don't sell real quick so the sellers wanting to move theirs will get pretty aggressive with the pricing. Maintenance history is important for risk avoidance so generally you will be dealing with private sellers. The biggest lemons we've seen came from used car dealers not knowing or caring about the condition of the car. A good pre purchase inspection (PPI) by a reputable independent Porsche repair shop (Indie) is critical. If you are serious about buying one, a lot of times you can get a Rennfax where someone on the forum that lives near the vehicle will go test drive it for you before you spend the money on a PPI. If the vehicle has had none of the preventive maintenance done, I will do Air to Oil Separator (AOS) and water pump when I get it, and Clutch/RMS/IMS in the near future. If you are paying a shop to do the work that factors to about 4K of expense, give or take. As for mods, there are two trains of thought. An unmolested car allows you to mod it how you want and make sure it's done right. But a tastefully modded car, with upgrades you already want, allows you to save money. When valuing mods, if it is setup like I want, I allocate half of the new price of the part only, no labor. Depending on what you are wanting to do with the car, the newer models aren't always the better models. Right now, the best deal is on the '99. It's the quickest, most nimble of the NA 996s and still has the same mechanical feel as the air cooled models, just with more horsepower. Yet the market still has them priced as the cheapest. Happy hunting and take your time. Look for a good car first, and a good deal second. Feel free post a link for feedback if you find one you like.

Prices for Porsche 911 in general have never lined up with KBB, NADA, Edmunds, etc. The best indicator of market prices is completed sales. What someone is asking means nothing, never has. The sold price is the market. Porsche 996 can range from $15k - $30k. (not including turbo, GT). Vehicles outside this range are rare and are either in need of a lot or low mileage 2004 C4s. The 996 is so insanely cheap (in comparison to the entire 911 model range), even if you have to put in $10,000 on day one you have a deal. Assuming that $10k brings the car completely up to date in all areas. These vehicles are 14-20 years old. Each one is unique. Anytime you're dealing with a complex mechanical device that has been out there over 14 years you have to take some time and put in some effort to understand the true condition. It's been my experience the vast majority of the time YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Find a cheap 996 for $14,000? Probably is high mileage and needs a bunch of maintenance. Suspension? Plan on spending $5,000 easy. Coolant flush, oil change, that's $700. Exhaust? $4,000 easy. Still... these days that seems like a bargain compared to paying $29,500 for a 1977 Targa with 208,000 miles a non-matching tired motor.

yeah, prices are all over the place. I'm looking for a 996 and compared to 3 years ago there is a much wider variation of prices, though the c4s's seem to be down. When I looked before for a mark 1 the cheapest were 17K and the most expensive were 25K. Now I see some at 14K and others at 30K. The car I want is clsoe to me 80K miles and he wants 24K. A similar car with more options about 300 miles from me has 60K miles and only 20K. I have not got up the nerve to offer him 18K becasue I don't want to offend him. My question is, is there anyone really paying close to $30K for a mark 1?

Quotes source post: 13422986

It's not your concern whether or not someone decides to be offended. Doesn't take much effort for the seller to simply reply, "no, but thanks for the offer." Close to $30k for a MK1? No I have not seen that at all, have you?

Thanks for the advice. I have always preferred private sales vs a dealer (especially used car dealers) but what I have found is many of the 996s around me are owned by younger owners (often owner #3+) that have owned for a short time versus a long time owner. I suppose as long as there are maintenance records I feel better but I immediately get concerned with a short time younger owner!

When you get serious about making a purchase, pay for a pre-purchase inspection. Take it to a Porsche enthusiast, preferably someone who only works on Porsche or only Porsche & BMW. Generally costs around $200 - $300 and worth every single penny assuming the tech is an enthusiast with at least 8 years of Porsche exclusive experience. They can run the diagnostic tools and provide operation information you can't see with your eyes. It's also not unusual for people (especially younger people) to quickly get into and then out of a Porsche. They buy it and then realize "HOLY FOOKING SHEET BATMAN" this car is expensive to maintain. Maybe they experience a $200 oil change or a $4,000 exhaust system. There is nothing inexpensive about 911 ownership, ever.

I'm not a subscriber, so I haven't seen the latest version, but Excellence Magazine also puts out a price guide for all Porsche models.

Quotes source post: 13423014

go to auto trader and look for a 99-01 porsche 911, 5 pages of results and the first page all the asking prices are $30K. Now is anyone really getting that? I know, but guy gave me a sob story on why he needs to sell the car and I feel bad low balling him. Actually I don't think its low balling. I think $18 is a fair price for the car.

Quotes source post: 13422986

No. Find the right '99 for around 18k and enjoy. On the 24k, just tell him you don't want to offend but you would give 18k for it. When he says no, tell him you are not in a hurry, to take his time, and if he changes his mind to just let you know.

Sold my 2002 996 C2 6-speed with 19k miles in March for $29,500. I was 3rd owner, all original, no paintwork, IMS replaced, 2 sets of wheels, and had all service records.

Quotes source post: 13423548

This would represent a perfect example of the top of the market. Extremely low miles, all original, extra wheels, all records, and a perfectly good (i imagine) IMS replaced, doesn't get much better than that. This is your $30k 996 example to compare all others against.

This is about a year old but includes all of the prices I could find nationally Spreadsheet of most 996/997s for sale nationally

Check out ebay advanced search for completed or sold listings. Very much location and mileage dependant, you will see maybe 1 in 10 cars go for over $20k Good negotiation tactic if your local dealer has one listed for "X" with no bidders for many months. http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks/...he+911&_sop=13

^^ that's cool! Can't believe I've never seen that.

There is no reason anyone has to pay $200-300 for an oil change. Mobil 1 0W-40 (no I don't want to start an oil discussion) is $23.88 for a 5quart jug at WalMart. You need two of those. Oil flter is around (usually under) $10 for a Mann, Hengst or Mahle, all of which are OEM German made. So that's $56 for an oil change. If you have zero tools you can get what you need for this one thing for under $30 and they will last you a lifetime. You don't even need a jack. You can do this in any condo parking lot. The AOS does not need to be replaced (unless it actually does) and if so the time to do it is along with clutch, RMS or IMS or whatever else is needed in which case labor for the AOS is practically free. Changing it by itself as a preventative maintenance item when it has no apparent issues makes zero sense. Suspension is NOT $5000 (well I guess it could be at the dealer) but it doesn't have to be anywhere near that, I can't see spending anywhere near half that for plenty of options that are as good as or better than stock. These cars are not cheap to maintain but they aren't that bad either, it's disingenuous for us to suggest otherwise. Anyone looking to spend $14-$30k on one of these cars and already intelligent enough to look for and find forums such as this one is by default unlikely to automatically run to the dealer for every repair. Most things can be fixed or replaced for a fraction of the "official" costs, even with quality OEM parts as long as you look around and take advice. But still, don't spend the entire budget on the car, keep some in reserve.

^^ What's the basis for your opinion? How many M96 engines have you worked with? You seem very sure of yourself so I'm assuming you have some data to back up your statements? It would be great if you shared it with us.

Quotes source post: 13423757

I can believe this, there's no way i'd pay over $20k for even an 02' with say 50-60k miles & it would definitely have had to have all the records & all the necessary ims, rms, issues taken care of. For a 99'-01', i wouldn't pay over 15k. jmo

Quotes source post: 13423945

I have Mobil 1 0W-40 in the frunk along with a formidable detailing operation, just added a small amount tonight. With a few shop oil changes in the first few thousand miles of ownership I didn't get a feel for how the engine likes to sip at the oil level. Now I check the computer & dipstick either before, after or both for longer drives. So far 1qt/1,000mi seems about right, it's my understanding this is pretty normal. Anyhow that's where I'm at. Car is running very well, delivering smiles. Fwiw I recently paid 22k for an 03 C2 6spd with 71k miles. $68k msrp so a very basic C2. I overpaid a little but this was a Southern California car owned by a couple with Porsche Dealership records back to 2005 and documentation on two aftermarket warranties. Zero type 2 ignitions and very low (6,500) type 1s. Nice interior even on most of the easily worn parts (all of which now replaced ).

Quotes source post: 13423757

The thing to remember about eBay is that vehicle sales are one of the few eBay categories where bids are non binding: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...nding-bid.html That makes it a little more difficult to interpret eBay "sales" as actual sales ... all you can really infer is how much the high bidder was willing to pay for the car. The bidder may have backed out or the seller may have decided not to sell the car at that price. So it's useful data, but maybe not as concrete as it might appear. Personally, I've always believed the whole eBay Motors thing is a bit silly, at least from a seller perspective. I think Bring A Trailer, where bids are binding, may be a more useful barometer of the marketplace.

My question is, is there anyone really paying close to $30K for a mark 1?[/QUOTE] I can't imagine paying close to $30k for a Mk1 unless maybe if it was an Aero package with extremely low mile exceptional one owner car with full service history from day one.

Quotes source post: 13424140

In what regard, the AOS? I was surprised to see someone advocating changing it just because it's never been changed. It's easy enough to note if it appears to be working correctly (leaks, pressure at the cap). Why pay for a $1000 repair (or what is widely acknowledged as one of the more difficult DIY's on these) if there are zero symptoms of failure? Even if and when it does go it does not mean that the engine will self-destruct. And lastly, they are made out of plastic. Some replacements have been found to be defective out of the box, there is no rhyme or reason. When it goes it goes. There is no guarantee that if replaced it will then give X time of good service until it it time to replace it again. It's not a component with moving parts like some others. I took your comment to mean than if you buy a 996 without an AOS replacement receipt then it should be changed at that time. It didn't say anything about age or mileage. It's not like they are a known weak part from the factory and that the factory installed part should be replaced with a better one (but yes, the design could be better, I mean the replacement is not better than the original). The comment actually read almost exactly like the one that is usual in regard to the IMSB - If you buy a 996 and there is no indication that the IMSB has been changed you should get that done. You are the first person I have EVER seen on here advocating for changing the AOS after purchase of the car just because it has never been changed before. I've worked on precisely one M96 engine, mine. I'm no M96 guru. But I'm also not into replacing parts that have no required change interval and that show no signs of failure. I also take some mechanics recommendations with a grain of salt unless I have no reason to doubt them or have known and trusted them for a loooong time. There have been a number of AOS failures on this board without any apparent time or mileage correlation. I am not directly aware of any of those failures causing any other major issue with the car/engine assuming it was then changed. If you know otherwise please do inform me. Maybe start a new post asking the question of who has replaced the AOS after purchase and who has not. If one does in fact change it on the first day of ownership when do you advocate changing it again and why? 3yrs or 30k miles? 6yrs or 60k miles? 10yrs or 100k miles? I'd be interested in seeing that reasoning. Look, I'm not saying I am necessarily correct but I'm not seeing your reasoning either. Unless you are Jake Raby's apprentice you aren't any more credible than anyone else here either, you certainly didn't post any "evidence" either. And if it's your Indy telling you this, who is that and what are his credentials? So at this point, my opinion is that an AOS is fine to leave alone unless shown to be bad. But you know what they say about opinions... :-) Or were you asking about the other parts of my post?

Actually it was FSI that recommended to me to replace the AOS every 3 years or 50k miles, water pump also. Every 2 years if tracking it. There are a number of intermix threads that caused blown engines and Ltusler's story of losing his FSI to a 4 year old AOS definitely caught my attention. As I just stated in another thread, one of my best friends just had to replace the engine in his '99 after an AOS failed and he pulled over and had it towed to the dealership. I haven't heard of any water pump failures taking out an engine but I've replaced both of mine just because it was recommended to me by FSI and it's easy to do. But then I figure they know these engines better than anyone else so I also have the spin on filter, mag drain plug, and use DT40 for road and XP9 for track. It would be interesting to be able to calculate a true ROI on the difference maintenance items vs allowing them to fail and even having to replace the engine. But truthfully I just really like my 996s and want to do everything I can to keep them in the best mechanical shape that is reasonably possible. And hopefully, if I sell them one day, the next owner will appreciate that as well.

Slakker, interesting info, thanks. I dug around some more and found this semi-recent post that includes several comments by Jake: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...plained-2.html What I get out of it is that he will change the AOS when the engine is out of the car, which I totally understand, it's a no-brainer along with bunch of other stuff (all coolant hoses?) at that point. I haven't seem him say anywhere that anyone should replace their AOS as standard maintenance just because but I freely admit I have not specifically discussed this with him on the phone or anywhere else including here. If he happens to come on here and say that yes, the AOS should be replaced every X miles or X years, then I won't be arguing it at all, he knows more about it than I do. But look at comments 17 and 19 specifically - He explains that the AOS can be tested while installed and then also says that you can have it tested as good or presumably replaced with a tested good new one and it can go bad less than 1000 miles later. So why not just have it tested as part of the PPI and if good, then you're done, and if bad and replaced it could fail again in 1000 miles...Seems like a waste to replace it unless it's bad or you're in there already for clutch, IMS, RMS or whatever. Yeah, of course $1k is cheap if it will remove the risk of ruining your $20k+ engine, but the average payoff doesn't seem worth it. At the end of the day it seems like you're probably more likely to damage the engine by tracking it to begin with without an Accusump or similar system installed.

Interesting read. Thanks for the link. If you read the pre-failure directives page on the FSI website, they detail their recommendations. When I emailed them directly is when they specifically recommended WP and AOS every 3yrs/50k miles and IMS Retrofit every 5yrs/75k miles. I know the AOS can fail after 1000 miles and I'm relatively certain that the two I replaced were 10 and 17 years old and still functioning fine. The 10 year old one after 8k miles of track time. One other recommendation I got was to aim for the dead center mark on the oil stick. That issues can result from being at the top or the bottom of the range.

Thanks for that, that's interesting too. When I looked at their website the information appears to be inconsistent there as well. To wit: "With the IMS Retrofit being rated at 6 years/75,000 miles of service for the Classic Dual Row and Single Row Pro IMS bearings and requiring proactive replacement at that mileage point, people who want to keep their cars forever have been looking for an absolute solution to the IMS Bearing failure issues. If you want to keep the car forever then the IMS Solution provides a lifetime of service, because the wear components are removed. Using the Classic Single Row IMS & RND Roller bearing kits will give you a 4 yr/50,000 mile service interval.". So neither version is 5yr/75k miles as they emailed you. Anyway, not to be pedantic, I agree that it's better to be safe than sorry with the IMSB, kind of like a timing belt in many regular cars... Reading the pre-failure directives that is the first time I've been aware of recommending changing the IMS pre-failure for normal plebes. Thanks for the pointer. I wonder (and again don't mean to be pedantic) if the recommendations differ (or should differ) a bit depending on intended usage. In another recent (still live) thread someone brought that exact point up. The car that gets tracked extensively probably should have different recommendations than the car that is much more of a daily driver. (and vs the car that sits except for a few weekends a year). At least that'd be the reality anyway in regard to normal stuff like brake fluid flushes. I'm guessing since you track your car a lot that you probably change it more than the 2year factory recommendation and much more than most people probably realistically do it (5years?). If one is using the car very hard very often (i.e. every available track wekend) I'd expect that to be harder on the car and its components than the average Josef. The whole beauty of Porsche's in general is that they CAN be used every day for everyday tasks without abnormal worry or concern (or expense). Sure, the expenses that do arise are higher than in a Miata for example but not really higher than anything else (not necessarily a sports car) that had a similar sticker when new. The big conundrum and gotcha these days is the fact that when the engine does go it's usually a bigger cost than the whole car itself. You have to really love your 996 to pay that price for a new engine. I like my car a lot but deep down it's probably the engine itself that I like the most, i.e. I'd probably be more likely to transplant my engine into a different chassis if something happened to my chassis than I would be to put a different engine into my car if the engine let go if that makes sense. Anyway, interesting conversation, thanks! EDIT: I now see in your post above that they did in fact recommend every two years if you track the car, so that kind of moots a couple of things I was talking about above...

Thanks all for the replies. I am honing in on a couple of 1999 C2s. First 70k miles Silver/Gray Fairly light options: Sports option package and radio Minor mods with wheels and exhaust IMS and RMS done about 10k miles ago Carfax shows 6 owners! Asking $22k which seems high Second 82k miles Black/Gray Light options Heavy mods (aftermarket aero kit, wheels, short shifter, led lights, air filter, etc) IMS replaced 20k miles ago (need to confirm records) Carfax shows 4 owners Asking $22k which seems to reflect cost of mods Thoughts? Both seem priced high to me as I have seen some listed in the mid to upper teens. My primary focus is DE and over time to add more performance items. I will do a PPI. Thanks!

The first one seems inflated but depending on the aero kit the second one might not be too far off. The aero would need to be factory or reputable brand. Cheap eBay crap would put it around 18k.

Quotes source post: 13429274

The Aero kit is from Precision Porsche. Not sure how the quality is compared to OEM.

Quotes source post: 13429620

Looks pretty nice but it's tough to tell much from the website. Got any pics?

cargurus.com has a pretty cool pricing tool. You pick a specific year, and it plots vs mileage. You have to go to the "car values" tab on the website. The only cars it doesnt track well are really low production or ones that are a very special trim line, like our 2006 Volvo V70R. There were only about 600 in the US from that year, and it didnt differentiate on the R package

Quotes source post: 13429768

Here are some pics. GT2 style front... rear not specified. Looks nice but hard to tell quality via pics!

Looks pretty good. Since it's not factory aero it will be more personal preference on resale so I'd only add $1000-1500 to your valuation over a non-aero car.

Ask Vtusler here on RL what happened when his AOS failed. Self destruct has a new definition in his case! Also, the AOS makes many impacts on the engine as it is failing. The AOS sets the crankcase pressure within the engine. When it starts to fail the crankcase pressure is elevated for a long while before any symptoms exist. What does this do? It elevates fuel trim and silently makes the engine run rich. A rich running engine can easily experience failed cylinders due to excess fuel washing the oil from the cylinders. If this happens you won't receive any CEL or symptom until it has reached out of the range of long term fuel trim. That said, preventive service of the AOS is a wise decision. The only people who wait for things that are failure prone, to fail, are those who don;t understand the full effects of what the failure can bring.

hello: I stick to my budget and willing to drive 500 miles to pick one up...after 3 months of searching and reading up on the histories of the 996, Carguru, Autotrader, Car.com, ebay, Craigslist, Carfax, KBB, I was able to find one locally. 01, Carrera with hard top, tip, 68Kmiles, 2nd owner, asking $19.5K. I subtracted the $2.5K for the IMS/RMS that need to be replaced, and offered at $17K. after two weeks of discussion, we agreed on $17K have the IMS/RMS replaced (4 year warranty at $2.4K, the IMS shaft started to wobble, dodged a bullet here!!!)... good luck duc

Quotes source post: 13432094

Interesting info, thank you, I suppose I was mistaken in my original post. It's happened once before. :-) So is it a good idea and well worth it from a cost/chance of failure ratio to change it by itself every 3 years or is one realistically better off getting it tested first every 3 years (presumably less expensive) and going from there and only replacing a tested good one IF one is in there already for something else (clutch, RMS, IMS etc)? Obviously replace it if it tests bad no matter what. If (since) these can fail within 1000 miles of install one should be able to come up with a reasonable protocol that would cover most realistic scenarios. Or does the failure rate curve appear to swing drastically upward around 3 yrs of age and that's why it's the recommendation?

Hey all, hoping to get a price check on a 996.2. Its a 2002 C4S with ~35k miles. The car is in essentially showroom condition and sold by a Porsche specialty dealer. Silver with black interior. It just had an $11k service with RMS, IMS, new clutch, new tires, new AC compressor, ceramic coating, oil change, etc. No accident history and car looks and runs perfectly. Firm asking price $37k. I realize its at the high end, but based on the recent service I feel like it's pretty close to the market right now, but wanted to hear some input. Thanks!

So just a super sloppy analysis,, "If I was buying" sorta.. Who did the work matters.. Silver with black interior. - Net $0 value common. does the car have complete records, 0 records take 5 to 7 k off the price. It just had an $11k service with (11 K is a lot of service.. I DIY most of this list.. so.... ) RMS, - Maintenance item and there is little accuracy on how long they last - worth 200 bucks to me tops. IMS, - Maintenance item, but,, you need all the info about the swap, not just "its been done" value is 0 - 3500 new clutch - ~80K service item,, about 2K. new tires - Look up the tires on tire rack that's what they are worth new. ~1200 depending on the tire chose (Assuming recent date codes) new AC compressor - another Maintenance item, I'd toss a value of 800 bucks at it. ceramic coating - Who did it, ceramic coatings are another item that can be good or real good or real bad. Unless I have the applicators info and the warranty.. 0 value to me. if it looked really really well done,, maybe a couple hundred bucks. oil change - basic maintenance records are worth more than anything,, 1 oil change is not that.. 0 value. Add a PPI.. And for the PPI for a car at the top end of the range I expect the dealer to eat the cost of the ppi before the sale at my shop if it fails.. So to me that 11K service in a buyer review has a rough value of about 4000 tops on the price of the car,, I'm still going to drive it to my shop and do a 100% fluid change on the gear boxes, have the coolant sent out for testing, assuming a few minor "while your there" things, like magnetic drain plugs, new coolant and oil cap, possible AOS, starter, alternator...

Quotes source post: 16277521

Thank you for the thoughts. The shop is a high end independent porsche shop/dealer and all the work and ceramic coating was done by them and looks excellent. The IMS bearing is an LN engineering and was done as preventative maintenance. The tires are 1300 on tirerack. The oil change comment was more to say that the major service was done as well. I dont have concerns about the car or quality of work. My biggest question/concern is trying to figure out the value of these cars. Recent auctions on BaT show recent auctions around ~30-33 for similar cars, but often they have not had the needed maintenance (RMS/IMS etc), which would need to be factored in, right?

It is just my personal opinion but I think that is a very high price for a 996, even a good 996. Mid 3xK$ is in the 997 territory with its well known benefits.

Quotes source post: 16277032

At that price, you're getting dangerously close to 996 Turbo prices with mileage differences between them not big enough to make a difference IMO. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-911-turbo-52/ https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/WP0AB29994S685220 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-911-turbo-46/ If it truly is a gem of a car, $37k might be fair, and I'm sure you would love it, but I wouldn't consider it a "deal".

is the 02 4s a coupe or a cab? MT or tiptronic?

Quotes source post: 16281847

Thank you, that�s exactly what I�m thinking too. Very close to a turbo or a 997.

Quotes source post: 16281858

Manual coupe.

I just spent $22k on my 2002 C4S. Replaced engine due to serious piston slap. Replaced about $4k in parts as related maintenance, clutch, flywheel turning, fuel injectors, AOS various hoses and new cats and mufflers. Paid a local shop the labor to drop engine and install long block and everything else. I figure as a roller my car was worth $5-$8k. Not selling my car, but would never sell it for less than high 20s if I had to sell it. Luckily I just want to drive it for another 5-8 years.

Quotes source post: 16281945

if its truly in showroom condition and had all of that recent work done i dont think its a crazy price for a manual coupe with 35k miles. Recent sales on BaT of lower mileage c4s, some without as much documented repairs, have hit low 30s not including buyers premium and shipping. I recently bought an 03 c4s with 21k miles. They are a fantastic car. Dont let a few $ make u pass on it

When considering the purchase of an older car, there is no substitute for having an experienced tech conduct a PPI to include eyeballing the maintenance paperwork to establish a reasonable purchase price. relinuca