Is there a market for a Singer style early 996?

I was wondering if you think there is a market for a singer inspired restored early 996 at an affordable price. The concept Im thinking would have: 1. Upgraded engine, 3.6 or 3.8 with oil system upgrades like deep sump and baffle. 2. Restored interior and exterior with the buyers preference in materials (alcantara etc.) in certain limited areas. 3. Restored and updated suspension. Polybushes and Ohlins DFV coilovers. 4. Updated lighting, Litronics with high end bulbs. 5. Paint in the desired color 6. a choice of 2 wheel designs. 7. Porsche classic radio with upgraded speakers. 8. Limited slip diff 9. Exhaust system 10. Michelin PS4S tires or Sport Cup 2 The car would have a thorough inspection and all the areas would be addressed and restored so you could have a reliable restored 996 911. Numbered plaque All for $30,000. Yes I know people are thinking this price is not possible. But just assume it is please. This is just a general idea. More would be adedd to the list. I think the 911 driving experience is wonderful and the 996 is a great platform to enjoy it in. Its clear many people cant tell a difference between an nice early 996 and a new 991 so it could be a great way to enjoy the 911 experience at an affordable price. What do you think? Would you buy something like this and choose your colors and options? ...

Good luck accomplishing all that for $30k and having any profit left. I'm not sure that the market will ever be ready for a Singer 996 or an RWB 996. Maybe an Electric 996, now there's a plan.

The engine alone is $30K. That being said, is there a market for something like this? I'm sure there would be. Albeit, probably a small market.

I was expecting people to say the engine alone is 30k. But assuming it can be done like I mentioned. All for 30k or less. Do you think theres a market for 12 a year?

If you can build a Singer-esque semi-custom 996 for $30K all-in, please sign me up as your first customer. Like others, I don't think it is possible to do it in a profitable way. I'd sure love to be the owner of one if you can do it.

I think you would have to go farther than what you have here. Singer sells cars because they are truly special, not because they are very good 964 backdates. You need to go all the way, and charge an appropriate amount for it. Then again, the RPM Technik CSR is almost exactly what you are proposing: https://www.total911.com/sales-spotl...996-csr-retro/ Ask them how many they sell per year.

Quotes source post: 14531733

Yes Im aware of the RPM CSR program. I like the concept very much. The thing is that its more than 30k for one of those and also they dont offer an engine upgrade. The idea is to achieve a semi custom reliable, enjoyable 911 experience.

Quotes source post: 14531733

+996 The real question is if there is any market for a $400k+ 996 that is completely customized. I think the answer is, not remotely. The answer to the asked question (solid and super clean 996 for $30k) is obviously yes. It's obviously yes because we know there is already a market for the described motor (see Jake's year long back log). It is also obviously a yes because we all know that you couldn't accomplish all that for $30k. Even at $40k (which is a more likely number) you still wouldn't be able to pull enough profit out of it to make it worthwhile and at $40k you are in 997 and 996TT territory which greatly reduces the potential market.

Jake's 3.8 Suspension tuning Interior customization with options for customer Exterior design and replaced panel with carbon fiber or other material to create a brand signature piece. Priced accordingly probably looking at 6 figures to separate from the rest of the 996's

UK based, starting at 27K British pounds - $35,000 USD. Guessing the base model doesn't include a larger engine like the OP posted, and is likely a la carte pricing starting there. Again, I don't think there is a way to do it for $30K as specced above, except maybe if it was DIY, even then, I think it would be hard to do. But it would be cool if you could. Edit - I completely agree with Gnat.

Well, like I said assuming there is a way, there would be a market. Thats what I wanted to know.

Yes. There would be a market without a doubt. Heck, I'm already have the 99 with the aero package and I would think it would cost at least $30K for a respay in the same color and a rebuilt motor.

One of my favorite quotes from a business guy berating a guy for losing money: "you can sell $10 notes all day long for $9" Yes there is a market for that car for $30k

Quotes source post: 14531619

While ^this^ is all well and good, there's nothing "Singer like" at all in there. Profits aside, there's good reason why Singer's cost $500k plus... Not to be snarky/derogatory, but the fact that you can even suggest that you can do anything even remotely similar for $30k demonstrates that you really don't understand the Singer concept or build quality

Yeah I'm having a hard time with the "Singer style" and "affordable cost" thing as well. To come close to being a Singer clone you're going to have to completely reupholster the interior with fine hand work which alone would cost more than double the cost of the donor car... If you're saying "could I modify 996's with suspension & tuning and then turn them around for $30k?" I'd say no... because that's essentially what we're all doing on our own dime. Add a new motor and it's a far cry from 30.

Not really 'singer-like' in any way... But sure, $30K for a performance oriented, bullet-proof, fully tweaked, and cosmetically perfect 996 C2 Coupe is a steal. I own a 996 Turbo, but sign me up if you could really deliver me a perfectly sorted C2 for that price... But even with some really low-end estimates for part and service costs, your pretty close to $30K cost with no roller! And no labor factored in on items like suspension, exhaust, audio upgrades, etc.

I see from the OP's location he may have access to less expensive Mexican labor. That may reduce the labor cost; however, the parts cost will remain the same either side of the border. That said, I am intrigued by what you are proposing. I have a good running 99 with 127K miles with option codes 220,222, and 224. I've been debating about what to do with it. I think it will need a clutch soon and I've been thinking about changing out the IMSB at the same time. This might be an interesting option.

I would pay 30K all day for a mostly bone stock C2 that has all modes of failure and wear items addressed that I could reliably track. Even with just parts, I'm don't think there's any money in it at $30K. I'm talking at least and probably more than IMS/RMS, AOS, nickies, timing system, cooling system, oil system, suspension, emissions/exhaust, transmission, tires, brakes, etc. I'd take it for $30K even if the cosmetics were 7/10 as long as there were no accidents.

I think the 30 k is abit tight . my car is similar and I did a lot of it myself and it's well past 30 k spent ( no rebuilt motor) but if you can build them for that let us know , they will sell

Maybe if you give your 996 and 30K it can be done, however keep in mind that the motor mods will be minor (tuning, intake, exhaust etc.) body kit, wheels/tires, brake refinishing, full services, suspension etc. Pretty much a fully redone car, but keep in mind options such as full interior refinish and brands for wheels/tires/brakes/exhaust & tuning products would definitely place a factory in keeping that thing under 30K. -Good body kit installed 7.5-15K with paint works (depends on kit) -Wheels/Tires installed $2.5-7.5K (depends on wheels/tires) -Suspension $900-5,000 installed (depends on options) As you can see we have made it very close to the marker, no anything else and of course that just keeps on going... I think if you tastefully modify a 996 you can keep it under 30K and having looking like a GT3 in the end with the whole thing fully tuned, new brakes and suspension, wheels/tires and a few other items for under 30K but don't expect FULL FORGED WHEELS, TECHART BODY KIT, CAR GRAPHICS exhaust etc.

Quotes source post: 14532282

The 3.8 bit alone is at least $20k and then all the other repairs to make it reliable without any of the pretty stuff.

I think you'd be more likely to profit if you based the cars around LSX swaps and bought cars with blown engines to start with.

Great comments all of you. I used the Singer example as simply an inspiration, never said it would be to the level of a Singer. but like a previous post mentioned what im thinking is a relaible fun semi custom well sorted out and upgraded restored early 996 Carrera 2 or 4.

It's a good platform to play with. More stable & stiff than 993/964/etc. Worth making your own build imo, but impossible to make money in the current market.

Quotes source post: 14531733

What rims are these?

A new engine, a new paint job, a restored custom interior, for $30,000? YES there is a market for such a vehicle. In fact people will be lined up for blocks to buy one. Sign me up. I'll take a $75,000 car for $30,000 every day of the week! 1. Upgraded engine, 3.6 or 3.8 with oil system upgrades like deep sump and baffle. (Engine upgrades must include IMSB upgrade as well of course) $15,000 minimum 2. Restored interior and exterior. $5,000 (seats alone) 3. Restored and updated suspension. Polybushes and Ohlins DFV coilovers. $5,000 minimum 4. Updated lighting, Litronics with high end bulbs. $1K 5. Paint in the desired color $7,000 minimum 6. a choice of 2 wheel designs. $2K minimum 7. Porsche classic radio with upgraded speakers $1.5K 8. Limited slip diff $3K 9. Exhaust system $4,000 minimum 10. Michelin PS4S tires or Sport Cup 2 $1.2K so we're at $40,000 in upgrades plus the base car. ...... there's a reason no one has seen this $30k unicorn.

Agreed with the above statement. Considering what I spent on mine, and there was a Singer 996 on the market with everything I wanted...., definitely would not be driving what I currently am. With that said, when can we start placing pre-orders? $30k OTD sounds fair.

Is there a market for a well sorted 996... I'd say yes. Most people seem to spend about that much after IMS, clutch, AOS and so on after they buy it these days. Would I have paid 30k for a well documented 996 where all of the preventative care are done? Oh you bet. If someone is selling these 996 with IMS addresed, clutch, AOS and put a 2 year warranty on the car, even at 35k I could see a market. Is there profit in it? That's the tough question and based on the price of parts, it seems very marginal. You kind of have to keep the price in that range because over 35k, you are also competing with 997.1 and at 50k its 997.2 and after 40k we are looking at the 996 Turbo money. Unless your build is significantly different whether in style or performance and market it in that way but at over 60k, it has to be unique enough to compete with even the new cars.

So I am one of those guys...I have a 996 that is speced almost exactly as the OP outlines. Getting a 997 3.8L put in as we speak. Its a special car for me for many reasons and I can tell you that It cost A LOT MORE than 30K to get it where it is (or will be). When finished we are anticipating it will have about 420HP. Virtually everypart of the car has been upgraded. Engine is either going in today or next week. Requires rewiring, ECU and new instrument cluster as well.

It can be done. Weve created a plan to do it. Whats important for us is to maintain the highest quality posible. There are still some things we have to work out, but like I said. It is posible.

Quotes source post: 14533448

Fuchs 18" http://www.fuchsfelgeusa.com/wheels/fuchsfelge-18

You are all going to hate me (well, hate me more than you already did), but I think the future of the 996 is actually how simple it would be to replace the entire drive train with an electric system. You could even put the batteries in the frunk (leaving the engine compartment for silly things like luggage) and get a 50/50 weight balance. Sadly, you could probably put an electric system that would get 150-200 miles of range and blow the doors off a turbo for less than a Raby 3.8 engine. Put an "engine noise simulator" into the cabin like many sports cars have now and everyone would be happy.

Without any snark, I would love to hear if such a program becomes available.

I dont hate that idea. Electric car is coming whether we like it or not. If I were to keep my car and at some point, gasoline become out of reach expensive and the car is impossible to upkeep... I would be open for an electric motor conversion... I hope that day don't come for my 996 but I don't think it is as horrific of an idea. At least it will be unique and probably have a market for it.

Quotes source post: 14533979

Does the plan involve boosting (and I don't mean turbocharging) the car and all of the components? If not, I can't believe this type of venture could make a profit. There certainly would be a market for this type of car at the $30K price point. However, to say this car would be a "Singer style early 996" (as you stated in this thread's title) would be false advertising to say the least.

It means boosting the cars performance with an upgraded suspension and upgraded engine. Also the electric conversion is also something Ive thought about but its more difficult to do currently and requires more development. I think some day there will be an electric sports car thats affordable and beats a turbo and many other current super cars.

Quotes source post: 14534531

HAHA By "boosting" I meant stealing...otherwise I can't believe the plan you have in mind is economically viable as a business. Unless it is a true labor of love, I think you will make MoeMonney elsewhere. Subscribed...

I don't quite understand the point of "assuming it's possible" when it's not possible. If you think it is, I think your number-crunching is off.

If you just offered a Bullet proof engine with a warranty, that alone would be attractive...

Quotes source post: 14534654

It is possible, Maybe not to you in your situation. But it is to me in my situation. Thanks for your opinion though. For now we will be making a first car to prove the concept. Should be a nice car and we are excited to see this come to life. Website soon to come with more details. Ill let people know here.

Porsche 996 by Harbor Freight. "Quality 996s at Ridiclously Low Prices" I can visualize this already.

Quotes source post: 14534531

It can't be done for 30k and even if it could there'd be no profit... No profit? Your out of business before you even start... Sorry, it's just not feasible... 😉

Quotes source post: 14531715

I'm in also.

Quotes source post: 14534704

Subscribed.

Quotes source post: 14534704

Allrighty then! I wish you luck

"However, to say this car would be a "Singer style early 996" (as you stated in this thread's title) would be false advertising to say the least." ^^My point exactly^^ (said more succinctly)

All those upgrades and quality? Sorry, it's not possible. If it is, I will be the first in line ready to eat my words and hand over the cash. The paint job alone can't be done for less than $7,000, not properly anyway. The car has to be disassembled, sanded, painted, assembled again. It's SO MUCH WORK. Good luck.

My question is, are you doing this for love or money. because if it's for money, why would you go through all this trouble for just 12 cars and $360,000 a year. There has to be better and easier and less risky ways to make that kind of money than putting together a car customization business.

Quotes source post: 14535047

Im doing it because I love the car and what it offers. �lso because I can and have the means to do it. At this point first, like in any endeavor, we will be creating the first build to prove our concept. If it works out then we will proceed with building more. If it doesnt then its no big deal. Thanks to all of those that are optimistic and enthusiastic. There are ways to get things done that people sometimes dont expect because most are acustomed to thinking by analogy instead of by first principles.

First, let me say that I truly appreciate your enthusiasm and optimism. Second, let me say that if you can pull this off, there will be tons of interest in such a car... I'll leave it at that, as I've already voiced my opinion in previous posts.

The concept is terrific and very marketable . The 996 is and remains an excellent platform .I hope your proof of concept works and if you can't hit the $30,000 goal I hope you get close .

Quotes source post: 14535329

I obviously agree by my actions, however, I don't think it can be done for 30K. Just the 3.8 engine will be half the cost and that is not including installation.

Quotes source post: 14535224

Will it be $30k plus a donor car? I think doing it for love of the marque is a great cause. And why early 996s as the target? I'm curious.

MoeMonney, is the total out the door price going to be about $30,000 (price includes the donor car which you presumably supply) or is the price $30,000 plus the donor car? If it's the latter, can the customer supply a roller (i.e., a car with a blown engine in which the engine probably cannot be used as a core) as the donor car? I wish you luck...I love to see new options for these cars that compete against the fearmongering 996 shops.

Quotes source post: 14535617

The customer can supply the donor car. The goal is to have an out the door price of 30K including the donor car. Donor cars are a key element in this equation so if the customer provides the donor car then it makes it much easier.

Are you just changing the crank in the engine. I am still struggling with how you would do it with an Engine Upgrade. But for what it is worth, I do think it is a great idea. I love the 996 which is why I have put so much money into mine.

Quotes source post: 14531619

This is an interesting concept. My opinion is it would have to be at the $30K price point otherwise you get into TT or 997 pricing as others have said. Here's a variation you might want to think about : I have a pretty nice '99 with 66K miles on it. It already has FabSpeed exhaust, shifter, Brembo brakes, Radius wheels and new tires. The engine is all stock including the original double row IMS bearing. I would be interested in pricing to just do some mods to my car rather than buying a whole new car. 1. Modify the engine displacement and oiling upgrades, increased reliability 2. Some interior mods, maybe sport seats, some alcantera, and a nice nav/sound system with bluetooth. 3. Not sure how much suspension work I'd want with only 66K miles, maybe coilovers and replace any worn bushings/components. 4. Definitely would want headlight upgrades. 5. Paint? My car is silver which I'm not a huge fan of. I would like something different but not sure I want to spend the $ to change it. A wrap maybe? 6. I'd keep my wheels but would paint/powdercoat them black. 7. See #2, 8. LDS: yes! 9. Exhaust: Already done. 10. Tires: Has new tires. I think you'd have a bigger market in guys that already have a car but would like them "tuned up". I think the profit margin would be higher this way as well. This would be more of a Hennessy or Lingenfelter type business model rather than Singer.

Subscribed. Would definitely be interested.

Quotes source post: 14535716

Like others, I'm skeptical you can do this for your target pice. I base this on what I paid for my 996 with needs, and what I've put in to it to make it fresh and reliable. I've got considerably more than $30K in it and I didn't have to do any paint work. However, I'm confused even more now (tell me where I'm going wrong)........ If I supply the donor car you can do all you propose for something less than $30K? I supply you with a donor car I paid $15K for and you give me back the restored/upgraded car for another $15K ? Rebuilt motor, quality repaint, suspension freshening, interior restore, etc.? Doubtful. But good luck. If you can actually do it, you'll have a long waiting list.

Working on these details. Seams to be developing pretty well. Ill have an update in a couple of days.

I want to help you market this so I can quit my day job if something works out! 25 years sales experience in a technical field. What else do you need?

subscribe to this. Would love to see if this is successful. It will definitely help the 996's community and lead to happy ownerships. It sucks to read another intermix, something blows up with these cars on forum week in and week out.

Quotes source post: 14534998

Agreed. I rebuild the M96 myself, so I got a good idea of how unrealistic this is. But yeah, I'll happilly eat my words.

Like the others have said, this would not be possible for $30k total and would be a stretch even if the $30k did not include the donor car. Also, although I love 996s this concept would work better with a 997 given that it has a wider fanbase and the base car already has the classic Porsche headlight look and hips. In fact, take a look at Dutchmann as they are already doing this. Let's be honest, most of us got into the 996 because it was a cheaper alternative to the 997 due to the unloved headlight design and interior issues. At ~$45k (donor car + upgrades), you are squarely in nice 997s territory and the majority of people are going to pick the 997 everytime over a gussied up 996. That said, I love my 996 and would love to see this work out

Well, we have some progress. This is what we could posibly start offering. Engine and drivetrain: Rebuilt motor with all the important standard rebuild internals including new lifters and chain tensioner pads and rebuilt heads with following upgrades: Stock Displacement Nikasil Liners. Deep Sump Kit. Spin on oil adapter, upgraded oil pump piston and spring (997 part). Upgraded oil pump drive shaft. Underdrive pulley. magnetic drain plug, ARP Rod bolts, low temp thermostat, IMS Solution, New Clutch Stock Modified mufflers with gundo hack. New stock motor mounts. New stock transmision mount. Mfactory LSD (Torque Bias Diff) Suspension: Full set of Powerflex polyurethane bushings, Ohlins DFV coilovers Eibach Swaybars Adjustable drop links Full adjustment and corner balancing Brakes: Stock Brakes with upgraded pads and stainless steel brake lines plus Motul Racing fluid. Interior: Reupholstered seats. Customers choice of colors and designs and materials. Reupholstered Shifter reupholstered steering wheel. Short shifter Interior would be partially striped and detailed and refreshed. Exterior: Option of two styles of LED tail lights plus LED Wing light and LED 3rd tail light. LED Side marker lights Litronic healights with upgraded bulbs (Phillips Extreme Vision Gen2 etc.) and xenon high beam functionality. Car would be completely paint corrected and ceramic coated, Set of refinished turbo twist wheels with Michelin Pilot super sport tires or Pilot sport cup 2 tires. Theres allot more details to the process like replacing worn parts like underbody panels and switches that dont work etc. We would be doing most of the complex work outside the US and sending over the car to Los Angeles. Process would be completely documented with live video feed access to customers. Customers would receive a picture catalog of the vehicle with description of work done and parts used. Dyno would be done in LA after the car is assembled. I know the engine mods dont make the engine completely "Bulletproof" but it sure makes it much stronger. Like I mentioned before, the goal would be to offer a nice all around 911 package for less than 30K. With what I mentioned we can achieve the price point. We are thinking about offering the package to people who already have cars (MK1 996 and possibly in the future MK2 996 and 997), and also selling our own builds. So what do you guys think? Any suggestions to make this better?

I think the 996 makes for a better addition to a "track stable" than it does a "collector stable." That being said, I think for 30k, you could sell a much better product if it was a turn key club racing ready track car than an attempt at a (semi) custom restoration.

Quotes source post: 14544964

That is an interesting Idea. Probably could be done for around the same price depending on what components are put in the car. Could be an alternate option.

Talk about a bait and switch.... Contrast the first post with what's actually available above. It's not even in the same country let alone the same page.

Quotes source post: 14544981

Yes, the thread evolved, its the purpose of creating a discussion in a discussion forum. Went from asking the forum about the idea, listening to feedback and then coming up with a first option. Actually feedback is still welcome.

You need new connecting rods as the cracked OEM units can't be rebuilt (as far as I know). Nice work though - I may just borrow some of the project's ideas I see 20-30k in materials & labor even with an aggressive hourly rate.

Quotes source post: 14545023

New connecting rods? Why would the connecting rods be cracked?

The m96 uses a cracked rod design. They're good enough for reliable performance at OEM power levels but a downside of the design is the need to buy new ones when rebuilding.

Quotes source post: 14545040

You,re right about the design. Although Im pretty sure that using the original connecting rods and changing the rod bolts to ARP rod bolts is also a viable solution if the connecting rods are in good shape. But if its a concern we can look into upgraded connecting rods anyways. Thanks for the suggestion.

If you're going to do all that, you might want to think about how you deal with the soft-touch materials. It doesn't age well, and it's all over the place in these early cars. If you do all that other work and leave the crappy degrading interior trim in that condition, it'll be an aesthetic bummer. Speaking of interiors, the GT3 Console delete and non smoker package clean up the interior nicely too, and don't cost a ton. Seems like a a-la-carte menu would be a good way to go, that way the user can have a semi-custom build and have both some creative control and the ability to manage the overall cost.

Quotes source post: 14545040

Huh?

Very interesting. How much would you ball park just the engine rebuild if one has a donor car? Or the suspension mods?

Quotes source post: 14545885

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti..._Tear_Down.htm

there must me some confusion. Im sure many have used their stock connecting rods for their rebuilds and just replaced some if they were damaged.

I may be the minority but replacing internal bolts on a rebuild is a minor dollar figure in the grand scheme of things. Depending on stress levels, I'd probably swap them out. The bolts holding the plastic intake manifold to the head on the 128...., not so much. Not saying either which is appropriate, but if I'm in there, it makes sense to me to just toss a fresh set in.

Quotes source post: 14546779

Youre right, Bolts are replaced in a rebuild.

Reviving an old thread. Were you able to accomplish your goal>

This is being pursued by at least two different groups that I know of. They both contacted me wanting engines, but I wanted no part of either initiative.

Quotes source post: 15658547

You didn't like the groups or you don't like the idea?

The original poster bought a 997 turbo and is on that forum now. I think some of what may be missing from some of these ideas is what makes Singer special (in my opinion). They aren�t just a run of the mill restomod company, anyone can do that. It�s their philosophy and execution, where everything is important. You can�t do that cheaply. If you do, you�re back in run of the mill restomod territory.

I think the fact that this thread fizzled out with a whimper in 2017 answers the �can it be done for $30k� question.

Quotes source post: 15658580

I never work with companies, or initiatives like this. Its always nothing but a bunch of open ended dreams. I like working with end user individuals, and nothing else.

This already exists. Its not $30k but not terrible. https://csrporsche.co.uk

Quotes source post: 15674821

Holy overpriced batman

Quotes source post: 14546051

Ed Pink Racing engines will replicate a singer engine for $120k which does not include the donor engine. It�s a crazy price for crazy rich people.

Quotes source posts: 15674821, 15675899

Interesting. Perhaps even more interesting is that you waited for over 8 years to make this your first post. HAHA For those interested, here is a short article and video about Ed Pink Racing Engines and their Singer engine builds. The short video is well worth a watch to see some Singer engine ****... http://www.thedrive.com/flat-six-soc...nes-for-singer

Was just at Das Renn Treffen porsche car show and Singer had their new version 2.0 generation spec. car. Talked with a Singer employee and the new engine in collaboration with Williams is psycho crazy. I'm sure it's on the web by now. Complete carbon fiber body panels. It was built to promote the new generation, meaning it was not commissioned like all Singers are, but did say it was for sale. How much you ask? 2 million would start negotiations. I'm saving up! https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...eyond-amazing/

to anyone trying expand the market with stuff for our cars. I bought my car for $16k and I'm right around $30k all in with my Porsche in the last 2 years. I'm quite a newbie to the Porsche community... ("singer"... who) but I'm quite happy with all the stuff I've done to restoring my tired car.

If you are interested: You Tube Lots of other great stuff out there about Rob Dickenson and Singer. The key thing to me is the idea that �Everything is important �. They aren�t just fixed up cars, there is so much more to the level of precision and detail. Taking it to a whole different level - Dynamics and Lightweight Study: https: //youtu.be/HU4iyYeVIc4 https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ighting-study/

Quotes source post: 15678993

I like what you've done to your car (though not my taste, it's your car - as long as you like it that's all that matters), but it's all cosmetics. The fact that you've got $14k in it, you did all the work yourself, and you haven't touched the engine means that once you get the engine work done you'll be in the $50k range... Way beyond the scope of the original question posed in this post (actually not way beyond as the CSR is around $30k plus donor car - that actually gets to around$50k). All this being said - nothing discussed in this thread even approaches Singer territory. Regardless of whether you're dealing with water-cooled or air-cooled engines, when you do it the way Singer does, the price will skyrocket. There is just no way to do it at a lower cost...

Quotes source post: 15679175

I did redo all the suspension and bushings along with some mods but I know what you mean. Nothing compared to what this thread is talking about. The motor is my biggest fear about this car which is why I have the swap set up on stand by. I was unaware of "singer" till I seen this thread this morning... wow. but I do still give thumbs up to anyone throwing up new options out there for these cars. With as much as Porsche owners love there cars (like me) I wish there was just more options out there as the prices are really discouraging for our cars. oh and dporto... my car is not exactly my taste either but when I redo my cars... I have fun and this one just slid in that direction lol had a blast with it and my son LOVES THAT CAR!!! lolol

Quotes source post: 15679257

I have boys (2) as well! They went through a "Fast & Furious" phase, so I get it I'm a DIY guy too, so I totally understand your POV

This is what you've been waiting for: https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...3OHtJCS3BzFYJQ Wonder how much this project cost...

Quotes source post: 16242651

yep, that's interesting with a finite number of 964 chassis left and not enough 993's to transform, was wondering if someone would take the 'Singer' approach to 996's and start backdating them JR said he wouldn't build motors, but someone could

I will never, ever get the singer prices. Yeah they are great and all but I am thinking for a 1/3 you could have a pretty dam nice car without all the bling. I have to imagine someone on this board with skill could make a more fun car for 133k. Not saying as custom on the inside. I saw one in Colorado Springs at the Porsche Dealership. I looked at it for a couple minutes (if that) but then moved on to the really cool stuff. I was disappointed. I didn't get to drive but there is no way the speed would justify that cost either.

Nope.. Every contact I have like this starts off wonderful.. Then the guys that are behind it run out of money, and start cutting corners..Then they want me to cut corners, I get pissed off, and refuse- NOPE! They'd have to pre- pay for 10 engines, all the same for me to even consider it. IF they lasted long enough to use all 10, we'd talk about more. My R44 would be a great fit for this, but I don't ever see it being viable.

I love the 996 just as it is (other then wanting a JR built motor) and don't understand the "backdate" fascination.

Agree with Bill. This retro 996 project that was posted by Jules above is super cool as an exercise, so big thumbs up to the dudes that pulled it off, but the proportions just cannot be achieved correctly on the 996 platform, IMO. The rear end particularly is jutting out awkwardly... I think the future holds some interesting developments for the classic 996, and perhaps a new life of sorts, but a "$500,000 restomod life" I have a hard time seeing in the cards.

Quotes source post: 14534728

P.S. must present coupon at checkout register.

Quotes source post: 14546779

$5.00 a bolt adds up fast.

Quotes source post: 16242969

Reminds me of my days working for Shelby & Saleen, credit hold central. Possibly the most sucesssful men ever to do this.

Quotes source post: 14531832

Absolutely at that price point. No doubt.

Quotes source post: 16242651

" But one thing's for sure: it's a big improvement over a standard 996. And a whole lot more interesting." I just don't get the hate.

Quotes source post: 16244246

What usually kills these efforts are bank loans, and investors. Bank rolling something yourself is the only way to fly, and you can't do it on a shoestring. I see all these builders of cars that have jumped in behind Singer pretty much spending all their money on marketing.. The big booths at the shows, fancy videos, and all the normal hoopla. I'm too 20th Century to believe in that crap. If you build it, and build it right, then do business properly- they will come.

Quotes source post: 16244839

It wasn't always like this...when the 996 was first introduced it was widely praised by the automotive press as an overall improvement over the 993 and every other 911 that preceded the new water-cooled machine. Since then, the many self-serving smear campaigns by aftermarket vendors and air-cooled purists (along with some rare but real mechanical gremlins) have really, unfortunately, tarnished the 996's reputation. Hopefully someday the 996 gets the accolades it deserves and we see a true Singer style 996 (or 997) hit the market.

Quotes source post: 16245149

Amen.

Quotes source post: 16245350

Seeing things from the inside, I can say that lots of reports are fake.. I know writers that ended up with their own car for writing a positive review of something.. Not that it happens every time, or not that its against the rules to do this, but I know it has happened. I basically put zero stock in anything that I read, I also never believe a decal on a race car. The 996 is a great car.. Outside of the engine, they have no major issues, and have held up extremely well for 20 years in lots of cases. This is why I believe we stay so busy, is because the car is great, and very worthy of a Powerplant that equals how good the car is, and makes it even better.

Quotes source post: 16244839

I'd have to disagree. The 996's proportions are damn good. The beauty of the design is that they captured the essence of the classic 911 shape while updating/modernizing the design, lengthening the wheelbase, and improving the aerodynamics. Trying to backdate it with "bug eyes" misses the point - This being said, I think the front end/long hood looks ok but the back end is terrible - it's just way too long (looks like it belongs on a Buick or something)... " But one thing's for sure: it's a big improvement over a standard 996. And a whole lot more interesting."... - Hardly...

Quotes source post: 16246111

^^This^^ is exactly why I ponied up the cash to do it right. I knew the car was worth it, and I'm in for the long haul (I'm not going to sell it and try to re-coup my cost).

Quotes source post: 16246192

Same.

Quotes source post: 16246111

Amen! The sticker from the best product on the market doesn't end up on the car, the one that pays the best contingency or flat out cash gets it. It happens in amateur racing and in professional racing. Just because the sticker is on the car doesn't mean the product is on the car. I never allowed stickers on my race cars for products I didn't use and believe in. But since oil is oil (or seemed to be back in the 80s) I would run the oil that paid for the sponsorship. I ran Bridgestone and Yokohama tires just because of their sponsorship. (Yokohama was my favorite tire overall back then) I always ran what the stickers said, but not everybody did that.(or stickered for what was being ran) I sometimes removed stickers when sponsorship ended, but not always.

I'll run stickers if I'm using a product sometimes,, I'll run stickers if the vendor has contingency money.. (A car I was herding once ended up in the background of a prototype at a ALMS race and I got a sweet check out of it.. ) Otherwise I run clean because I care little.. the only side thats important is the back of the car in front of another one.. LOL

I've dumped Driven oil products into the engine, and gearbox of a car sponsored by Mobil 1, with a huge decal on the side. That's just one example of why you never believe a sticker on a race car

Quotes source post: 16247189

I only raced for a couple of years and had a similar experience. I had a stickers for contingency money; stickers for whoever paid me some money to sponsor me; gave me discounts, services or parts. And some because I ran and wanted to support the products (like Bilstein, who never gave me anything, but I love their suspension products).

We don't have decals... The definition of success to me is people knowing what's inside by how it performs, not what's plastered on the outside.

Quotes source post: 16248664

Only sticker I have on mine, I rather like it.😎 not mine, but looks exactly same except # and its in better shape on original windscreen. I will save it when I replace glass. Part of history.