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YOUR RESEARCHThanks god.. this is what could have happened
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Why would they change anything on the console from the ones that they're using on the 911 and the Cayman?
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Replace of wheels a vw touareg looks better than cayenne
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I think with a change of wheels a VW Touareg looks better than Cayenne
Run rings around the quattroporte, s8 and the flying spur
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I think aesthetics are debatable, but I'm sure they are building the Panamera to run rings around the Quattroporte, S8 and the Flying Spur.
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Many americans claim to be italian, irish, scottish, etc without having ever set foot in the country...
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Why would they change anything on the console from the ones that they're using on the 911 and the Cayman?
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Imagine a commercial release of this beauty... the P-car brand would have been crushed forever
seriously who came up with:
1) that idea
2) that design
3) actually assembling a prototype... was it a joke or somthg?
There was some bizarre rear-engined four door considered in the early 90s. Perhaps fortunately, Porsche AG didn't have the money to create a super-Skoda
fake...
You can see where it was cut and put back together. Look at the rocker panel (shadow from door is not right, that dark strip was added). Also shadow on pavement right below is suspicious. Also rear window is too sharp in focus versus rest of roofline. Any good creative director or art director would send it back for more work.
p.s. - I've been a Creative Director for over 22 years.
That's not a photoshop and not a fake, it's the Porsche 989 Concept car that many view as being the precursor to the Panamera.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_989
http://www.theautobahn.com/forum/sho...article_id=159
http://jalopnik.com/cars/retro/panam...und-122197.php
http://www.theautobahn.com/forum/sho...ar_model_id=42
I don't see why anyone would think that it is ugly - it's basically a stretched 911 with 4 doors... ahem, the same as the Panamera is going to be.
Not exactly, the Pana-scare-us is going to be front engined and not quite a 911 knockoff, I suspect it wont be that pleasing to the eye. Regardless I'm sure it will drive great!
Okay, let me rephrase.
Cosmetically it will resemble a stretched 4 door 911.
A Cayenne resembles a 911 that has been stretched upwards and outwards to make an SUV box.
Basically it will cosmetically share the 911 DNA in the same way that all of Porsches designs are similar.
I would have bought the 989 in a heartbeat and will probably own a Panamera at some point. You have to consider that the 989 looked like a 996 before the 996 was created. A lot of the styling cues in our cars come from this concept car.
I just love those who scream fake without knowing the history of their beloved brand... research baby, research! I thought everyone knew about the 989.
Ahem..ahh Porsche is not exactly my beloved brand..I like and love many things Porsche (and BMW) but both companies seem to really have trouble understanding the concept of cars we want in the US or North American market. I don't know much about Ferrari, but from what I've seen, I'd be leaning towards them as my beloved brand...but then again, I'm Italian...
Speak for yourself.
Porsche doesn't design cars for North America. They design good, robust, speed machines for race enthusiasts.
Any company that designs for one market is doomed to failure.
I'm sure you can define what the people of North America want, but I cannot and I'm sure the are many others like me.
PS, are you real Italian, or fake wannabe italian? Many americans claim to be italian, irish, scottish, etc without having ever set foot in the country... that always cracks me up.
Well Porsche
is my beloved brand
and I was aware of the 989 but I must admit that I do not find the Cayenne to be a particularly good looking vehicle and I fear the same will happen with the Panamera.
I have no issue with Porsche building a "super sedan" I would just like to see it done right. I have enjoyed the look of every 911 ever made but stretch that into a sedan and its not going to look great or puff it up and make an SUV, not so hot
I am all for brand recognition but some of the spy shots I have seen are not pretty! Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised because I would love to have a Porsche family hauler some day.
Just my .996 cents
I had dinner a few weeks ago with a factory driver. Of course he's sworn to secrecy but when we asked him about the Panamera he got a real big smile on his face. That's all I need to know.
yeah, I've gotta admit that they made one ugly car when they stretched the 911 styling into a Cayenne.
I take heart that the original artist renderings of the Panamera are really nice. The photos we've seen so far of it are mules that are dressed up in camouflage and not really indicators of what the final car will looks like.
You have to give Porsche the benefit of doubt in that they're fairly predictable in their designs and you can bet that all of the design elements of the Panamera are already existing in the current product range.
...think about how there has always been design synergies in all of the recent cars... Boxster to 996, Boxster to Cayman, 911 to Cayenne.
Porsche is about evolution, not revolution. They will not debut a new design on a new car, it will be a Frankencar created out of the existing designs.
I felt the same way about the Cayenne until I drove one. Say what you want about the styling, that's one fine SUV. If I didn't have to pull a car trailer I'd own one for sure.
For an SUV, what do you think looks good?
Loved my old 2000 Toyota 4 Runner. I love the Land Rover Defender. I loved the look of the Range Rover and I like the Cayenne. There isn't any other SUV that I can say I like the look of. Specially the large Escalades with spinners talk about fugly.
We have one thing in common. I too like Porsche and BMW! However, I'm European and just live in the US on time as Expat. Before I moved here, I got the impression that Porsche and BMW have trouble understanding the concept of cars we Europeans want but now I know why Porsche didn't built a sedan before an SUV and why BMW increases the hp of their entry level inline 6 with each generation: it's for the US market.
However again, during the past years another important market developed for these brands: China. Did you know that today BMW's 2nd largest market behind the US is China; not Germany anymore! So what most of us Europeans and Americans probably don't know is what concept of cars the growing Asian markets desire. It's very hard to capture the whole picture from the outside and I'm sure that Porsche and BMW know what they do as it seems they do their homework. It's too expensive not to!
True... IMHO the Range Rover design is boxy and still living in the '70's. The Discovery isn't bad, but a little too skinny - looks like it's a little too prone to tipping.
SUVs generally aren't pretty.
I think aesthetics are debatable, but I'm sure they are building the Panamera to run rings around the Quattroporte, S8 and the Flying Spur. I understand sizewise it's more S6/M5/E55.
Anyway the buzz in places like Dubai over this car is pretty high, and I think the same can be said for NY & LA. I'm sure it will sell well out the gate, after all, how many guys defer their 911 ownership until their families are grown?
yeah, but they're not really SUVs, as you said, they're more of an inflated station wagon.
Hey, nothing wrong with Bratfut, I did some years prowling there also - that's where I met my wife.
Exactly - I have a 3 year year old and a second one arriving within weeks... I look at the Panamera as my way to get seat time in a Porsche on days when the 911 isn't practical.
India, China, Russia, and the Middle East are collectively a huge market which is actually exhibiting insane luxury goods growth. Several years ago Mercedes set up a plant in Pune, India, which they claim is their highest initial quality plant, solely to service the huge demand in Asia, and the exotic dealers in these regions are so backlogged it's unbelievable. I think it's natural that product design eventually bend around growth markets!
I haven't been the biggest Cayenne fan either, but I must admit that the GTS tweeks just enough of the right style elements to make me intrested in owning one.
Totally agree with you here ! See what is happening to Ford, GM etc... they're all virtually bankrupt. The only P&L's still making money are their European brand.. Chevy and Ford are super profitable in WE and EE.
As far as your second comment, I love it... Being born in the US, makes you an american... not Italian - even if your grand parents were Italian
After we got done with it as a family hauler we put a lift in our RR and turned it into an off road toy. The boxy design looked pretty good by the time we were done.
Yup - agreed on both points, but I had to check.
I believe that there are more people in the US that claim they are Italian than actually live in Italy.
looks like a real car to me...maybe a pic touched up, but then again - I'm not the expert you are!
As a Creative Director, maybe you could brush up a bit on your shadow expertise in your sig?
(j/k)
EDIT
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i should've scrolled down before commenting...geez, I was pretty sure I'd seen pics of that car before
Hey, don't get me wrong, the Range Rover is and always has been the off-road king and yours must have been a blast to drive. The Jeep is a ***** in comparison to the RR. I just wish that it didn't have British electrical systems and that damned annoying steel-aluminum corrosion issue that plagues those cars.
I've driven S, GTS, and and ridden in turbo S. The Stock, S and GTS really didn't do a lot for me, but I can see how they appeal to people with a need for a hauler. At least you don't need to remember where to put your key.
Turbo S was godlike. G55 and Rover Sport Supercharged feel almost scary , suspensions aren't tune for road. Turbo S feels like a really hi-po sports sedan (from the passengers seat.)
Well, also remember that the image (regardless of whther it's an actual photo of the concept car, or an artist rendering) was created in a time before Photoshop and gregorycarl didn't take that into account... maybe he was just starting his career at the time that Porsche was deciding not to produce the 989.
Honestly comparing for example Defender to Wrangler, in full trim I think most offroad guys in the US would prefer the wrangler, it's very very capable outfitted correctly, an less expensive to own for the reasons you mention (and parts availability). Of course I'd rather the Defender for style, but we ain't got none round these parts no more.
True - The RR can effortlessly take you through the Amazon in style and comfort. The Jeep would be a kidney shaker and you'd probably get out at the other end wanting to be eaten by pigmies.
I love the style and interiors of the full boat Rovers, but If I'm going to the Amazon (or pretty much anywhere in the developing world) I'm going with the Land Cruiser. We have the LX470, which is the lux interior version o he Land Cruiser Amazon, at one of our projects overseas and it is just the best third world vehicle ever. Ultra reliable, quick cheap parts anywhere in the world, great in water and amazing in heat (where RRs have the most trouble). And the suspension tune is just unbelievable whether bruised up street or nasty trail.
We had a couple of RRs. The early one (1992) was great. The later one sucked! We would keep champagne in the car just to celebrate every time we actually got somewhere without breaking down.
I love it!
I've owned 1 SUV - sold a few years back, but when I was shopping I really wanted to buy a RR. The reliability was what stopped me from buying. No matter how hard they try it seems like they're always playing whack-a-mole one some issue or another.
I hadn't seen those images yet. It's still pretty heavily padded out with camouflage - if you look closely you'll see all the crap that they have taped onto the car to disguise the lines. Very little of what you're looking at is real... the door lines are hidden, as are the lines around the front and rear quarters. It's amazing that they can do that without throwing out the weight distribution and handling.
It's funny because you can see all the parts that they've cannibalized from earlier models to put on the car... my favorite is always the MK1 sport design wheels.
I can imagine. I'm perfectionist, so it would have driven me nuts to have to keep working to fix it.
Well, that makes you one lucky dog.
Why would they change anything on the console from the ones that they're using on the 911 and the Cayman? - that doesn't make a lot of sense.
It appears they are going for the Luxury sedan crowd / cockpit interior. There are way too many ***** and buttons. It doesn't seem to be directed at the sports car crowd although the tach is still predominant in the cluster.
Who knows the performance? I have just sat in them and played with all the stuff. There's a turbo which they are pitting against an AMG Mercedes so there's going to be something in it for a sportscar fan.
cayenne looks great in the turbo version and the GTS version...Porsche should just stop making cheaper versions of the different models...and stick to the top of the line versions!! But I understand they need to make money
On another note....if the stretched 4 door 911 was spottted in 1991..this means that the 996 was already 10 years old before going into production.....
No way! You graduated from Bratfut?!?! Which year?
She was there for a year on a study abroad program. I was there doing my undergrad degree. We met through Ramair... I was the Bratfut version of Alan Freeman.... not arf!
You know, you really are getting tedious.
I have no clue what's going on in your tiny mind and what has brought about your apparent mental breakdown, but I'd had enough of your prepubescent junk. Amazing to think that I did actually have a few shreds of respect for your opinion before this weekend. Pity you blew it.
Time for you to join your Australian friend on the ignore list.
Yup! Never ceases to amaze me. I now work with a guy that I used to have as a student in one of the classes I taught in grad. school. Imagine how freaky that was to find out on the first day at the company.
So your wife came all the way to Britain to reel you in? I must tell that to Hermina and her cousin, both of whom very lazily waited in the USA for British imports to arrive for them...
Yup - it's called the marriage abroad program... many students that take end up coming back engaged... see, inn my case she came to me, whereas in your case it was like the movie "Love Actually" where you went looking for her and lured her with that fine british accent of yours.
Some of the local ladies do seem to appreciate it...
I keep telling my gf it's part of the cunning plan to return America to the British Empire: we put lots of Brits on the western and eastern coasts for a pincer movement. She points out that none of us ever seem to make it more than ten miles inland, which dooms our strategy. Oh well...
Hey, it's a good strategy and don't let anyone tell you otherwise... let them get lulled into a false sense of security and then the next thing you know we'll have them all singing God Shave The Queen.
Like they would know, they stole the music and added their own words already.... cracks me up every time I hear it.
Say, I think that you got your strategy wrong... going to LA, where there are already tons of Brits meant more competition - shouldn't you have gone to Wisconsin?
BTW, are you going to be insane enough to drive up to NNJ for that drive on Aug 10th? I'm planning on being there. I figure it will be nice to attend a drive, rather than having to lead one.
That I can understand.
...it's quite a hike to get there, but I've gotta get my driving bug worked out of my system and there's no chance of my wife navigating for us again before the fall... we'll probaably do a fall foliage drive in late october.
I don't love the styling but it's ok. I do love the idea of Porsche building a fast sedan although the price is pretty painful. The factory driver we know that has driven it couldn't say much but got a big smile on his face when we asked about it.
How long before there is a 2-door AWD version… Looks like they may go back to the internal fight over the 928 v 911. Do you think we are seeing the pike of a rear-engine layout w/ the 997 GT2?
Yeah, the price has seemed a little inflated recently. Earlier reports put the price for the base Panamera and the S in the $50K to $100K range and now I'm seeing prices starting at $120K. That's a little much in my mind. I'm not sure I could justify paying that much. I'd probably go for a BMW instead.
127K for a 3.5L V6 (if that's even remotely accurate) doesn't sit well with me. S8, E63/S63, even the QP all have more appeal to this sedan buyer. And that Aston, well, that's a pretty car
Bingo! You nailed it. If $127K is the starting price for a car with a VW engine in it, then I'm sorry, I'm not buying that. for that price I'd be looking at a nice 5 or 7 series BMW and be very happy with it.
well the bentley continental, spur etc all have vw engines for more than that, as does the W12 A8, and I wouldn't kick any of those out of my garage
I'm very averse to the styling of modern BMWs, but they do move nicely!
Good point - I still think of them being a good British car - I blacked it out of my mind that they had been pimped out and dumbed down by VW.
As for the BMW, I actually prefer the new generation of 5 and 7 series to the previous ones.
Your bimmer preference will definitely save you money, they sell very inexpensively in the used market, a lot of car for the price!
The Bentleys are nice and all, but my favorite VW engined car has to be the old 550 Spyder ! (i'm ducking for cover!)
Exactly. You can pick them up for a real deal when they're 2 years old. I'd take a 2 year old 5 series over a 2 year old Panamera.
As you said, Bentleys are nice... nice for chavs, but a little much. The brand has been ruined by the owners.
Why did they originally kill the 928/924/968? And wasn’t there talk of a 4-door 928 at some point (back in the day)?
My armchair forum troll theory is that Porsche is paving the way for the 911 evolution to be ether a front or mid engine layout. How much more can they engineer out of the rear-engine layout?
Personally I would love to see the big hp GT go the way of the 989 and have the 911 (99X) be lightened and honed for visceral pleasure (GT3 but smaller). Or would a 3.8L direct injection Cayman with a (small) backseat be the answer?
End of BS.
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