Considering the LN Rebuild Program

Hello All, My last oil change came with some surprises. There was a little bit of gold flakes I found when draining the oil into used bottles. Just enough to see the sparkle in the sun, but no so much that I was aware of it when the catch can was full. I have never been a gambling man and I am not about to become one. Last Friday I was coming home from work and I took the scenic route so I could open up the engine a little. When I got to my first stop, I noticed a little bit of engine noise I had not previously heard. I got the car home (about 1km away) and the noise was gone, but I knew I had never heard it before. It as at that point that I decided driving the car would be foolish and I would take the car off the road and plan accordingly for a repair before a catastrophic failure occurred. Since I have a second car and my wife has one too, I figured I would take the winter plus a year to get finances in order and plan to rebuild the engine. No more cold start piston slap, no more chasing rough idles with little success, and no more worrying about failure! To be honest, the worrying ended in my third season driving the car.. I knew a rebuild would be in my future eventually. With that being said, I am looking for some recommendations in the meantime for storing the car for an extended period of time. I am getting the car fully detailed and waxed before I put it away covered in my garage. The car is also always connected to a battery tender and I imagine I may need to find a more serious protection plan for rodents. Perhaps my cat could hang out in there a little bit?? Here are my other concerns: Should I even worry about fuel stabilizer for this length of storage? The car will like be there at least 12 months, but perhaps as long as 18. Should I take off the wheels and replace them with a cheap pair of wheels on old worn out tires? I'd hate to take it out and learn the tires are ruined. Any other recommendations for prolonged storage? As the title suggests, I am going to contact LN and get a better idea how their elected engine rebuild program works. I have never seen another member on here go through this program yet and I am very impressed with the cost and parts replaced. It looks like you'd be getting an RND engine at a much better upfront cost. Since my engine still runs and pulls hard, I am sure the engine would qualify for this program, but I will need to speak with LN to be certain. If the forum has any other recommendations, my ears are open. I know the FSI well and have even chatted with Jake online and his knowledge and willingness to speak with me for quite a long duration showed his passion for his craft. Ideally, I would go to Jake, but at the moment it is not in the budget, although I feel inclined to reach out anyways and see what they have to offer. Their waiting list does not matter to me since I will be take some time off the road anyways. My only other option would be to sell the car as-is for cheap. The car is perfect interior wise and nearly perfect on the exterior and I am afraid I would not be able to replace it with a 996 as nice for a reasonable cost. I'd rather know I have a nice car with an engine I had built right. I do not believe I could part with the car unless the money was right. My goal is to get another 20 years from the rebuilt engine and share the experiences of the Porsche with my child (due in December of this year). Again, if anyone has any recommendations, let me know! In the meantime I will keep everyone in the loop. Time to make some phone calls!

I'm pretty sure there is a shop in Canada that's working with Hartech (from the UK) and overseeing their rebuild program ( https://www.hartech.org/engine-rebuilds ). I know Canada is a large landmass, so they may not be very close to you geographically, but they'd be "in country" nonetheless. Being a FSI build recipient, I can't recommend them highly enough (they work closely with LNE as well) - Good Luck

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You have taken delivery of your FSI car? Which build did you choose and how noticeable are the upgrades. Obviously, FSI puts a lot of thought into reliability and that is not something you 'feel in the pants', but I wondered if the power and torque increases were noticeable. Also, how long was the process for you? Thanks!

He feels it!

Ok, here's the Hartech shop in Canada. https://alpineautowerks.com/ ... Yes, I took delivery of my car fitted with a FSI Stage II Track performance rebuild (3.4>3.8 liter ) back in June and have been driving it since (about 2k - 2500 miles). The re-build process is generally 6 months. Mine took a bit longer due to some fueling issues caused by the venturi tubes used in the C4 fuel tank. Power and torque increases noticeable? The differences between the FSI build and the stock engine are stark in contrast! It's a completely different engine in overall sound, and feel/performance. Their focus is on reliability AND performance - not one or the other. The whole idea of their builds is that they're "total builds" designed and developed to address all the shortcomings of the M96 platform as released by Porsche.

I was able to find Alpine Autowerks. Thanks for confirming I had found the right place. I will give them a call, too. Your rebuild sounds very enticing! I will definitely be giving FSI a call. I know it is the leader of all top quality rebuilds. I also only want to pay for a rebuild once! Thank you for the input.

We tried all rodent eliminators and this is the only one that works: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tomcat-T...1005/300934102 Every residential property in Los Angeles County should have 3; two at edges of property and one under house, and you will have zero rats. They will ignore cheese and peanut butter on a spring trap, but gobble up these blocks with active ingredient bromethalin. 4lb refill buckets available but not sold in LA County we have to take a drive to get them.

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Never had any rodent issues in Manhattan Beach 1996-2007

Go ahead & get & install LN's fuel stabilizer. Jake may buy your 996 too.

I wanted to provide an update. After a long talk with Jake Raby, I have decided there are really only two answers that I can live with as a 996 owner. Either I sell the car and leave it all behind me or pull the funds together to make this car last me the next twenty years. Jake liked that answer because he wants to deal with people who intend on keeping the car forever. The buy in cost was actually lower than expected and I believe I could make it work. I do not have any urgency to get the car back on the road, so I can take my time and go through the process. Another option would be to purchase a car with an FSI engine, but we all know that these cars are rarely sold, although Jake told me there is one for sale at this moment. I have some time to think, so I will go over all my options, including those provided above, so I know I can be comfortable with the choice I have made. It is funny.. As a huge car enthusiast, I hate spending money on cars. That is why I actually see the value in what FSI has to offer. Spend the money on the car I love, because at the end of the day, I do not care one bit if my DD car is a 200,000 mile beige Camry if it means I have a perfect 996 in the garage.

Best of luck! I figure some day it's going to be my turn also. I'm not saving right now......but will have to figure out what to do when the time comes.

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I would argue that driving a 200,000 mile beige Camry as a DD is a financially wise thing to do, as long as it is reliable. I have been working out of Atlanta, and now Charlotte, over the past two plus years. I sold my old Mustang GT that was my DD for $1 to a friend who needed a car. I got my wife a new Mazda and I have been driving her old Mazda3 as my DD. It has gathered several dings and dents, including being hit by a deer, over the past couple of years. I don't see the wisdom in having a nice DD, unless you are in excellent financial condition and can have only one car.

I was agreeing that driving an old but serviceable economy car is smart. For instance, my daily is a 2008 Honda Civic with about 200,000 miles on it and MANY imperfections visually. But, it has also been the only car we own that has spent 0 time in a garage for repairs in the past 5 years. Oil, brakes, and tires. I love it! There is something so satisfying about getting every ounce of use out of a purchase. Funny thing is our Honda had a catastrophic engine failure in 2012. A chunk of the block came off and the engine lost coolant and overheated extremely quickly on the highway. At least I know the engine is 4 years newer than the car and it was replaced under warranty!

When the time comes make sure that beauty is fixed. That is a great spec you have there.

Jake loves what he does too and stands by his work. That too is part of the financial equation. Do it once do it right. My 996 will probably go to GA for elective work too. After taking the class and pricing the parts myself, Jake�s team really adds a lot of value for a small increase in cost. A lot of people quote rebuild prices here but Jake�s crew is going to remove and reinstall everything too. That�s worth quite a bit. No one ever factors broken electrical connectors into their rebuild cost..... and if you work on modern cars and say you�ve never broken one I have a bridge you can buy.

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Since I am in Canada, I have the option of taking the engine out myself and driving it down to GA to drop it off. It will save me a decent amount of coin and he recommended it since it would allow me to be part of the process. Hopefully those connections are holding together well.. haha

+1 on what Anthony is saying...especially about the electrical connectors. Every time I press, pry or push on a locking tab I cringe. About every 15th one breaks on me, unless it is a really expensive connector, then it breaks every time For the cost, you just don't get the level of service anywhere else that FSI gives you.

Seems a shame to me to invest so much and then keep her in the garage...

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It seems I have mixed up the use of daily versus winter beater haha. I drove my 996 every day this year between May and last Friday. I drove more sparingly in March and April while I set the car up for a long road trip. I have always put the car away in the winter due to fears of bore scoring and because the car has yet to see winter (she spent her years before me in Florida and Texas). An engine rebuild could make her winterable, though!

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Couldn't agree more. I had planned on doing the hands on with you in February and then (attempt to) tackle the rebuild this summer with as many of the same parts as possible. Crunched the numbers and the value I'll get from their expertise is far and above the increase over what my cost of the parts would be. A fall slot opened up and I grabbed it and now just waiting for Thanksgiving to GIVE THANKS for the work done when I get it back.

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Sounds like you moved out before the new improved California came about. Rats are on the pay to play program as well.

When I bought my ‘99 coupe it had come out of over-winter storage. I won’t go into the disgusting details, but definitely do yourself a favor and take rodent control seriously.

Just to update this thread, I have decided to move forward with the FSI program. FSI has some excellent customer service and I have never read of a complaint or documented failure online in regards to their engines. I had the chance to test drive a car with an FSI engine in my area that I was considering purchasing and the differences are rather huge. For proven reliability and noticeable power gains, you cannot go wrong with FSI. I look forward to surprising the later 996's and some 997's with the power my little '99 will put to the street. Now to survive close to a year without driving the old girl.. that may be difficult!

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F6I! Best decision I've ever made in regards to a car! The difference is astonishing. You will not be disappointed. The wait will be more than worth it.

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Congrats! Can I ask how the process works? Did you have to reserve your spot in line to get a build 12 months from now?

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You need to talk with Jake Raby and have them prepare you proposal for the engine you would like built. Depending which direction you go, the waiting time can be longer or shorter. Once the proposal is sent to you, you have a week submit the signed contract and make your first deposit. Your spot is reserved for that week time frame, but if it expires the spot opens up again. I called in early October and my spot was going to be August. I did not decide until last week to go through with FSI, and my spot fell to the end of the 2020. Luckily, another spot opened up and I now have a September 30th, 2020 completion date. If you are looking to into another 911, this is the way to go, in my opinion. You can get into a lighter more analog early 996 with an FSI upgrade for the same price as a 997, which has the same failure modes as the 996. The only thing I missed after driving the 997 was the power, but this makes it a non-issue. It is too bad you sold your car, it was a beauty and would have been one of the best ones around with an FSI in the back.

Thanks Twitchett. Since my car only had 80K miles and was in great shape, an FSI engine didn't make sense financially. I'm looking at a couple different 996s right now (got a bid on one on BaT). If I could find a roller in great cosmetic shape, I'd definitely go the FSI route.

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You're looking at that 3.8L, eh? That is one cabriolet that I would not kick out of my garage haha. It is a beauty.

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Sshhhh.... don't tell anyone

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We actually start the project the day that the purchaser executes the proposal, and we accept the job. There's no "reservation of spots". Currently my next available completion date for my Premier Service (using the most local to you of my Certified Installers to remove and replace the engine) is October 2020. To finish out 2020 we only have an October, and November completion date available. We collect these engines 3.5 months before the stated completion date, and process your engine, we do not, and will not "swap" engines with you. The "Exclusive Service" is where we receive the vehicle, and do all work here under our roof. The first available completion date for this service is now April 2021. We collect these vehicles 4.5 months before the stated completion date, and process your engine, we do not, and will not "swap" engines with you. This is a much more expensive service now, than it used to be, and typ[ically adds 6K to the cost of the project. Things move fast this time of year, we accepted 4 new engine builds last Friday alone, and have two more proposals pending now. We never slow down. It's both a blessing, and a curse. By the end of this week I expect all 2020 slots to be filled.

Thanks for the info Jake. I didn�t know you offered a local certified installer program. Sounds like a great option since I�m on the opposite side of the country. Currently looking for higher mileage car that I can hopefully drive on the weekends for a year. If I can find one in good cosmetic shape, I�ll be calling FSI.

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Jake: You are booked far into the future for a very very good reason...

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I placed a bid but as expected there was a flurry of last minute bids that moved the price up a bit. It didn�t meet the seller�s reserve. Even though it�s probably a great car, I wasn�t 100% comfortable with mid 20s. Would rather have my own 3.8L installed.

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Almost all of our purchasers are 1,000 miles away. We are used to working remotely, and honestly what is more complicated for us, is when someone is "close" to us. It's actually more difficult for us to deal with these jobs, than one from the opposite coast. I just started the "Premier" program earlier this year after Dporto's issues with transport got our entire program a bad overview. This is the very first time we've ever received a less than positive overview, and I did not take it lightly. It sucks to have to answer for the mistakes, and less than favorable practices of a shipper, and have a dark cloud cast over the entire experience only due to that. Everything on our end was done right, and was appreciated, but I had to step up and literally pay for the poor communication, and less than positive experience of the transporter. It pissed me off, and when things **** me off, things change. Shippers have gotten much harder to deal with, and costs have gone up radically with the implementation of ELD in the transport industry. It will not get better, and will only get worse if the economy starts any sort of downturn. I started this "Premier" program with all of our IMS Solution Certified Installers, and got them on board with the program. These people I have hand picked from my hands on classes to be further trained, and evaluated. I continually evaluate them, and they must conform to a Code Of Conduct. Basically, they have something to lose if they screw up a process, don't communicate well, or don't treat the purchaser the right way. I will only work with Certified Installers to carry out this work. No one else. Certified Installers know they only have one chance with me, and that I'll pull their Certification in a heartbeat with no argument. To make this process even more comprehensive I have moved my Aircooled engine dyno to the training facility, and have replaced it with a second M9x/ 9a1 specific new engine dyno. This will allow us to test two M9x/ 9a1 engines at one time, and do all the break in like we would if we have received the entire vehicle.We currently can only test one M9X engine, and one Aircooled engine at a time, here at the main facility, so the engine test cell has been reserved for developmental engines only, or internationally purchased engines at this point. The local Certified Installer pulls the engine, and puts it into one of our specially configured crates, then we arrange for pick up of the crate, where the engine is delivered to FSI, and undergoes the standard documented disassembly, and is processed as per my standard regimen. Following this, the engine is dyno tested in the test cell for at least 8 hours, then has a mechanical inspection, and first oil sample collected. Once the UOA results come back positive, and the mechanical results are as expected, the engine is shipped back to the Certified Installer to be re- fitted to the vehicle. The installer has a very strict guideline to follow, with practices to file in our system along the way. I am then live on the phone with the installer when the engine is started for the first time. Once the car has 100 miles on it, another service, and inspection is done, and we can then schedule the future services based on behavior, test results, and what I feel needs to be done on a case by case basis. With this series of practices we can provide an engine that has no question marks attached to it, and is proven in every way. Ultimately I intend to phase out the collection of vehicles for our work over the next couple of years. The first step in doing this, was to create the Premier program. If the Premier program has compromises that I do not like, then we will have to either get creative, or tag the line, and call it quits, leaving the industry on a positive note, and moving on. I have to keep my finger on the pulse of what is done, because if given a chance, a problem will occur. To do this we have to go overboard to make sure that installers do the same exact practices that we would. I have prepared more training materials for the Certified Installers, and they will be tasked with more classes in early 2020 to keep them up to speed on what we require, how to file documents and how to work with the customer in the manner that I require. A very specific letter of instruction is the first step in this, and it has the detail of a fine toothed comb. Anyway, for those who want a stock displacement engine that is built with high quality components, and processes, the RND program that is now owned and managed by LN is a solid option. I did not intend to hijack this thread. All the FSI mentions demanded some sort of explanation from this side, though.

And this is why I�d feel 100% confident having FSI build my engine. Attention to detail like no one else.

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YEP!

" I just started the "Premier" program earlier this year after Dporto's issues with transport got our entire program a bad overview." *Since my build has caused the changes to the FSI engine build program(s) I think it's appropriate that I respond here. While there were a few problems with my build - none of them were directly related to the quality of FSI's work or any of the parts they used. The problems were outlined extensively in this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-critique.html As I stated several times in the thread (as well as several others since then) I'm amazed at how the engine runs and performs. In addition, FSI has been fantastic regarding follow up questions/information/communication. These guys are first class all the way. Hopefully, the "premier" and "exclusive service" programs help to mitigate the shipping pitfalls that I ran into (and Jake wound up eating the cost of - at his own insistence, I didn't ask him to do so) and help everything run more smoothly and profitably.

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Thank you for the clarification. The experiences that you had ended up waking me up, and creating changes before we had someone that was less understanding to deal with, than yourself.

Jake- Love your attitude. I have one more bore scoring video to go, and I have to say they are just awesome videos. I give training to my customers (electric motors and repair) and I have to say, I'm very much like you in my methodology. I want to thank you for those videos! And to hear how you would do engine rebuilds and dyno them, do UOA, etc., sounds like a perfect way to do it....just like a race team would from a far or maybe Ferrari with their customer's engines! I would love to take one of your classes some day, I did take the online UOA class and loved it.

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Thank you! What I have explained here about how we build engines, is what I believe is the minimum that should be executed by an engine provider. Engines being shipped away without being ran, or inspected/ proven is pure insanity, and will kill a business. Allowing anyone, and everyone to remove and replace an engine will also kill a business. Not giving a damn, and doing things as quickly as possible, and cutting corners will also kill a business. If someone is more concerned with a clock, a calendar, or a bottom line price for their engine offering, this will also kill their business. It takes as long as it takes, and costs as much as it costs. No compromise. What is likely to be my last hands- on class will be held in January 2020. This is the M9X Engine Rebuild Class. Thank you for attending the UOA class!