78 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBlackstone vs Jake Raby oil changes
Reported or suspected cause
installing a 2qt deep sump kit
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
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Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
The silicone increase was due to my installing a 2qt deep sump kit.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
There's no bull**** with Lake, he grew up with a dad who was a NASCAR driver, and placed 2nd at the Daytona 500 with a car that had engine oil filling the dry sump tank that was bought at K Mart.
Leading evidence: 'installing a 2qt deep sump kit' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'installing a 2qt deep sump kit' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill dry sump tank' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
They picked up a trace of silicone when my X51 Oil Baffle was installed from oil sump being off/on.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
its been sealed but still may have changed chemically since it was exposed to the air while it cooled.
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
A somewhat related question: I changed the oil in my car a couple weeks ago.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The PO of my car resealed a valve cover right before I bought it.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Fill dry sump tank
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
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Suggestion
There's no bull**** with Lake, he grew up with a dad who was a NASCAR driver, and placed 2nd at the Daytona 500 with a car that had engine oil filling the dry sump tank that was bought at K Mart.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I had been changing my oil every 6 months(owned my 2002 for 6 years now) but the past few years I've only been driving 2-3k per year so I'm doing my changes annually.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
78 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T213932Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
So I got my Blackstone oil analysis back today. I normally change my oil every 6 months like Mr Raby says or 3000 miles which never happens with me.
Its been 7 months and 2600 miles and they told me to keep driving on this oil that it is just fine. Another 2000 miles at least.
So who do you got Blackstone on Raby? And why?
He also recommends not using Blackstone.
I'm in the same boat with my first UOA due back any day now from SPEEDiagnostix. I'll let you know what they say.
I also got my Blackstone UOA back today and also got chided for changing the oil with so few miles.
I agree that
SPEEDiagnostix is 'better' but I just can't justify $60.00 per oil change. BTW, I change my oil annually.
Maybe 9 months and 3k is a better interval? It's cheap insurance, I get it.. If your car is parked in the garage in nice weather and driven 1-2 times a week a minimum of 20 miles each time. Is it a bit overkill?
A somewhat related question: I changed the oil in my car a couple weeks ago. At the time I saved about a pint of oil for analysis (using my favorite car restoration storage, a Talenti gelato container). I still have not ordered a kit to send the oil in. So at this point I am unsure whether the oil analysis would still be accurate. Is it worth doing now or should I just wait to change fresh used oil at the next change?
its been sealed but still may have changed chemically since it was exposed to the air while it cooled.
Many thanks.
I have a 2001C4 coupe 6mt
It’s fine. As long as it’s not contaminated. I hear cat the industrial machinery company does analysis super cheap and better. Blackstone makes it super easy, they mail you a little bottle. They require 3.5 ounces of oil. It’s postage paid just put it back in the mail. Took me a week to get my results. I think the money is well spent to do it once a year. Especially on resale, it may provide some confidence from a buyer. Probably loose my shirt either way on the resale.
Really curious to see the results. Car is new to
me and has no symptoms or issues
An older picture with my dad in the background
but the UOA will tell me a lot more.
I DD and rack up 500 - 1,000 miles a month; so 3k or 3 months (which ever's first) is my usual program. But I'm only out the cost of the oil and filter as I DYI most stuff.
I seem to recall that the oil should be changed every 6 months irrespective of milage.
I stick to 5000 miles or 6 months for all my vehicles.
The 996 gets driven the most, so I change it after about 5 months and 5000 miles.
I use Blackstone because I’ve been using them for years.
They do a good job of analysis.
But I don’t rely on their diagnosis, I learned how to read the UOA myself.
Lots of reading and I took the Knowledge Gruppe UOA class.
Blackstones diagnosis has gotten better recently I believe.
Has anyone ever had a poor analysis done by black stone? I only see people post their results and everything is always positive. Do they provide analysis on problems also? If so, what�s an example of what it might say?
Yes, of course!
There is a UOA specific thread here on RL. I've not looked at it in a while though.
Early on they showed some issues but said all was good too. They've grown with time though...
I have.
It was on my BMW 135i.
They detected increased iron levels.
I was able to track it down to being a faulty Vanos Solenoid and clogged screen.
It was reducing the oil pressure to the camshafts.
Once this was fixed, the next several UOA looked much MUCH better.
They also correctly identified the cause for increased silicone during my next to last UOA.
The silicone increase was due to my installing a 2qt deep sump kit.
Check out E46 forums, usually, you can tell your rod bearings on bad by how much of certain metals are in it. Much more prevalent than I have seen on this board when it comes to oil analysis.
Jake Ruby sells oil, figure it out. And the Gibbs oil is just re-labeled Penn or (older stock) Brad Penn, which has been around forever among the Porsche crowd. I mean, these guys don’t own the refineries, but they can re-label bottles of oil.
First off, I don't sell oil.. You can't buy oil from me if you try. We buy oil in 55 gallon drums for our engines, if I need oil for one of my cars, I buy it just like the rest of you have to.
Further, go to my website and you'll not see anything listed for sale there except for engines. That's it. Not a single part.. if you call me trying to buy any part that we use, you will be turned away.. Not even referred, as a referral is just a pain in the next later when someone ends up wanting to complain about something. Hell, as I shoot my engine assembly video I have had to cover every brand name that we use, even the logos on my tools, and I don't even mention my own brand even one freakin time. It's super hard to shoot 12 hours of edited video, and not mention something that you created from scratch, even one time. I even covered the brand up on my own inventions, and covered right over the stampings of my own US Patent numbers. No one will ever be able to say that I've endorsed anything in these videos.
Regarding my relationship with Driven:
I have tested oils for no less than 6 different brands. They look this way for practical application results, and first hand experience. I go into any of these relationships telling them that I'll never endorse anything they have to offer, now matter what. My opinion isn't for sale, at any price.
That said, what we get from Driven is different... I am able to get oil that comes in a drum with absolute formulas, and virgin samples proving what the oil is before we even tap into it. We don't have to worry about an oil changing, and killing 13 engines in a 3 month period, like I had happen back in 2001 when an oil changed, and we didn't know it. Also, we are able to change a formula based on what we are seeing in our engines for break in, and as fuels change, this is a big deal. As an example, we use a different formula of BR in winter break ins, vbs summer, and that's not just a viscosity change.
Fact is, I don't give a damn about what oil is used, or when you change it. Listen to the guy sitting in a cubicle, who has never built an M9X engine before, telling you about your oil, based on some papers that he has read, and a test that he has taken (and probably barely passed). He will look at your wear metals, and tell you about all the Unicorns, and Rainbows, and tell you to keep following the yellow brick road.
Do what he says, and follow the owner's manual to the T, but always remember where to find me, when that doesn't work out so well for you. Then come get at the end of the line.
Or... you probably won't, because you think I'm a jerk, when really I'm just a little too 20th Century for you to appreciate.
A few years ago LN sold some Driven oil cases that included an oil test kit from ALS Tribology. I used this once or twice before that deal stopped, but I�ve continued with ALS since they have all of my old data and I haven�t had any issues. They always seem more than happy to chat over the phone if I request more info/insight. I�m not sure why the deal with them stopped, though.
FWIW, the Wix-branded oil test kits sold by O�Reilly Auto are actually for ALS. So I buy those for about $20 and mail it directly to ALS in Atlanta.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...nalysis-2.html
This thread has some copy and paste of the info from their reports. It looks like I didn�t update it with my results from last Fall, though.
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The PO of my car resealed a valve cover right before I bought it. When I sent my first oil sample to Blackstone for baselining purposes, they correctly speculated the cause of the high silicone reading.
My oil sample from earlier this month showed 50% less silicone than this 2018 test.
RTV sealant has been showing up as silicon in UOA forever.. Of course, the Wal- Mart of UOA will tell you to change the air filter when they see it in the sample.
Its laughable... But sad.
@Flat6 Innovations: anyone can see you sponsor the “knowledgegroup.com” and there is/was a posting for oil analysis and Gibbs. you never answered whether DT and Gibbs oils are just re-labeled oils available from other manufacturers, maybe your partners can help you remember. @808Bill: keep drinking that KoolAid!
There are only so many sources of base oil, GIbbs likely buys the base from one of them..
There's a handful of base compositions, depending on the crude source and the refinery that cracks it.
After the base, the most important part of a oil is the additive package that's mixed in, that's where the magic is..
Gibbs spec'd the oil blend, based on a lot of years of track time.. I doubt it beats a couple
of the other options out there. I've used the break-in oil in several different types of
engines and it does seem to work very well to get the right surface on a fresh cam.
Especially solid tappet setups.
YMMV..
FYI, I attended one of the Knowledge Gruppe's classes on UOA.
Jake also stated that one person attending could safely continue using an oil from brand X.
I've looked at the analysis of a virgin sample of Driven DT40 and it does not compare to any other brand's oil.
The additives are unique.
It's because of those additives, and the cost of an M96 rebuild, that I continue to use it.
You can call me a KoolAid drinker, but I assure you I'm a well informed KoolAid drinker.
I take no one's initial suggestions until I've verified them.
Once I'm certain they know what they're talking about, THEN I'll accept what they say with minimal questioning.
Now if Jake says it, I'm going to follow what he says unless I have direct knowledge that conflicts...and in that instance I'll throw some questions at Jake or Charles, or Tony, or Lake.
Want to see what Jake actually says? (and the others above)
Take a Knowledge Gruppe class from them.
Disagree with them afterwards, then yeah, lets hear about it.
+1
I'm always ready to listen to a true expert.
Until you can prove you know as much(or even close to as much) as Jake, Charles, Lake, and Tony...I'm going with the intelligent choice.
The entire video brought to you by the marketing department of Porsche. Who, btw, was struggling to survive in the late 90's. So they pulled out all the stops to make the 996 profitable and attractive to buyers. Hence the easy maintenance section.
I still love my 996 but a 15k oil change is a ridiculous suggestion that doesn't happen here.
What rock have you been hiding under? There is no mystery or some secret government experiments happening under the disguise of "the knowledge gruppe". Jake Raby invited Lake Speed to talk about bore scoring, LSPI, UOA, and the new GP-1 on his Rennvision YouTube channel. What am I missing here? This is no big secret. If you're so hell bent on knowing the company of Driven Racing Oil, why not contact them instead of trying to get information from Raby? I've emailed Lake Speed many times and usually get a reply the same day. The history of Joe Gibbs and Driven is well-known and as the company changed, so did the oils. No big mystery there! Listen, if you don't trust direct information that Raby offers, then I'll point you to this article from PCA that talks about Driven. That will give you the info you desire.
https://www.pca.org/story-behind-dri...CwH6YsPPy5uGzs
The ONLY product/ service that we offer at Flat 6 is our reconstructed engine. To benefit from our UOA, you must first have my engine fitted to the car, and then a lot of doors open.
No, there's no "re- labeling" of the Driven oils. I know where the base oil comes from for all of the various offerings, as well as the additive packages, and I know who does the blending. I receive 5 gallon pails of test oil routinely that have no name, just a formula number.We know how these oils small, how they look, how they feel on your fingers, and even how they taste... Yes, how they taste.
If you want to see who is copying who in the oil word, you have to be willing to sit aside your opinions, and taste the damn oil. You'll see who the copycats are.
While the other companies spend all their budgets on marketing, Lake is traveling to shops and engine factories all over the world to test his oil in various engines. That may mean 3 days spent trying different oils in a GM LS engine, while 5 different cams are ran, and then measured for wear, or it may mean spending a week with me doing the same thing in a Porsche. To date I don't know of any other oil company that bought an M9X powered Porsche, and drove that car across country to Porsche Parade to just get an oil sample from it. Hell, Lake even won the Autocross with a 2.5 Boxster with one of my "Stocker" 2.5L engines in it. The guy that had a brand new GT3 was so pissed off that he left, and never came back.
There's no bull**** with Lake, he grew up with a dad who was a NASCAR driver, and placed 2nd at the Daytona 500 with a car that had engine oil filling the dry sump tank that was bought at K Mart. Lake did test work for Melling oil pumps, and built engines before Coach Gibbs asked him to start the oil program, to give them a competitive edge, as every other team was losing engines due to oil. They are grassroots people that only believe in practical application testing, and real world results. PERIOD.
Any more damn questions?
It never ceases to amaze me how many people insist on being "keyboard commando experts" in a field when dealing with *actual* experts with field experience because they want to 'win' some internet issue.
I generally ignore them and stick to the advice of the experts that have earned the trust and respect.
They are vendor haters. They don�t want anyone to make any money from them, or their car. They want some miraculous event to occur where the dealer offers every product and service that they need, and make it basically free.
That said, without the individual efforts of companies like mine, think of where these cars would be today. Tell me one breakthrough for a problem these cars have, or one performance enhancement that has been offered for these cars that is innovative from the factory since the cars were new. Just one. You are challenged.
The poster also said that Flat 6 �Sponsors� The Knowledge Gruppe. What he didn�t mention, is that I own the damn company, and founded it.
People don�t know, what they don�t know. Keep on fighting that keyboard battle.
100%. That's why I go to vendors that are the experts, because...stay with me here..they are the EXPERTS.
I am not an expert in rebuilding these engines, but wanted the best for *my* needs and desired outcomes and planned accordingly.
After talking to, and more importantly listening to Jake, I’m certain if Charles, Tony, or Lake were not straight shooters, and didn’t know their $#!�, Jake wouldn’t let them in the door.
Jake seems to me like someone who hates BS.
This happened when the Zn and P levels of engine oil suddenly change, back in 1999-2000. I lost everything from 356/912 engines, to 914 engines. It wasn't just me, flathead Ford guys, and British car builders had the same demise with engines breaking in "the way they always had". We all thought it was a cam blank/ lifter issue, but a few months into things I figured out the oil changed.
It got so bad that I had to build a spintron to break cams and lifters in before using them in an engine.
That's what has created all the oil development around here... I haven't lost a cam, or lifter since 2004.
Not limited to Porsche,, Comp-Cams got bitten hard by this,, they included a warning with their cams but the cheap *** racers wouldn't buy break-in oil ..
They recommended 1/2 hour break in cycle for their cams.. We started running the engines with break-in oil and setting the rev limit to 6500
and just doing laps with any sprint car motor that got a new cam. Took about 30 track minutes to get the cam surface hardened..
I personally witnessed a couple dozen cams fail in < 1 session without the ZDP boosted oil..
We used a couple different brands eventually Gibbs came out with their break in oil and we used it..
I had been changing my oil every 6 months(owned my 2002 for 6 years now) but the past few years I've only been driving 2-3k per year so I'm doing my changes annually. I use Joe Gibbs DT40 oil which is like $150 for 12 quarts so I hate dumping it with so few miles Plus I always take trips that bring oil temp up to necessary range and even in winter months drive it weekly getting oil temp up as needed.
Yes, lots of us did. It took months to figure out what had happened.
Never again will I use a break in oil that doesn't come in a sealed 55 gallon drum accompanied by a formula analysis of the virgin oil.
I hear ya,, we started buying oil in drums and sending a sample out ,, Even from the big companies..
We ran redline in the sprints but dumped it every weekend due to the methanol.. It was a cost balance thing,
your dumping 3 to 4 gallons each time.. you wanted good oil, but hated the price !
We had 2 sprints, a Midget, a Turbo Nissan, 2 sentra's and a Mustang,, So buying drums was sorta sensible.
Plus we found a place that would buy the used redline to recycle and they paid pretty good because it was
relatively clean.
And those "big companies" still use additive packages from only 4 providers in the World.. That's right, only 4 sources provide all the additive packages for every bottle of oil that can be bought.
No, they watched my videos on bore scoring and UOA correlations. The week after that video was released magically the commentary they provided about higher aluminum and silicon levels that are elevated together changed. No longer did someone have a "dirty air filter", they suddenly might have bore scoring..
It really was amazing, and it pissed me off at the same time.
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