996 ticking while cold...

I have 02 996 that recently had the engine remanufactured 5k ago. I get this ticking noise at start up that will last until the car is drive. And fully warm. It�s very faint after a good drive. Just did oil change with JG Dt 40. Oil level is just above middle of dipstick and 1bar below full on electronic gauge. Is this normal? I have a 3 year warranty on the engine soooo if this is not normal I�ll bring it back. You Tube

That is NOT a normal sound. I would take it back to the engine rebuild place post haste.

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IMHO, this is classic cylinder bore scoring on bank 2 of the engine. As the engine warms (metal expansion) and oil is circulated, the ticking sound is suppressed and that is the case heard in this video. Watch Jake Raby's videos on bore scoring on YouTube. Then, bore scope bank 2 (especially cylinder #6) and I guarantee you'll find scoring. If you really love this car and what it repaired, then you need to contact Flat 6 Innovations.

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With the engine already in service for 5,000 miles as the OP noted, I don't think there is any recourse with the shop that installed this engine unless the warranty company would cover something like bore scoring that occurred out of the control of the shop. Maybe so.

Hmmmm... #1 - that's not a "ticking" sound... #2 - that looks/sounds like it's on the bank 2 side of the car (passenger). Neither of theses are good signs and point toward bore scoring. Bummer! Pull the sump plate and scope the bores from below (as this is usually where the scoring starts/is worst). The upshot is that you have a 3 year Warranty! Good luck, and keep us posted on the outcome!

Define "rebuilt" please. Is this your first oil change, do you still have the old oil? Was there a "break in" procedure done?

This is not the first oil change. I wanted to do one before putting the car away for winter. I�ll be reaching out the the shop that did the rebuild. This should not have happened so soon after a rebuild.

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Basically, you get what you paid for. The shop "rebuilt" the engine back together without addressing the cylinders. If you send them this video, what you wanna bet they'll say it's a noisey lifter?

" Define "rebuilt" please." ^^^This...

Just sent the shop the video and called. They are going to diagnose and fix under warranty. They�ve been great so I�m not too worried. Just going to take awhile for them to get to but I was going to put it up for the winter. thanks for all the responses. I will repost findings once the shop gets to it.

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As Prof said above that is NOT a lifter. Yes, please keep us advised. One question do you know what specifically was done during the rebuild?

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I have the receipt for the reman engine at home. I�ll post everything that was done. It was done by the previous owner. From what I recall the engine was disassembled and repaired to factory specs and reassembled with new seals and ln engineering ims. The engine rebuild was not due to failed ims. I was told it was from a bad rod. When speaking with the owner he said it will be fixed correctly under warranty. The warranty gave me piece of mind when purchasing. on a side note My oil level seems to be staying steady. So at this point it doesn�t seem to be using/biting up oil. No smoke from pipes when starting.

That�s classic rod knock.You gotta cylinder that�s gonna let go. I once had a 1965 Ford truck with a 352 and bad rod knock. Last I heard it was still knocking and driving.... I don�t expect that in any case though.

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Don't want to disagree, but sounds suspiciously like my bore scoring issue at a certain point prior to checking with a boroscope. I'm only guessing as no expert. Only know what I went through with my car.

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It could be piston rock due to excess scoring.... either way a cylinder is about to go in a big way.

Sounds very similar to me...

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Yep... that�s sound and it gets very faint once driven.no oil loss yet. It�s going back to the shop to be fixed under warranty.

In the mean time its shredding debris that's killing the rest of the internals. Cease operation. This my friends is why you don't "rebuild an engine to stock specifications".

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Root cause for me...

May be a dumb question but what about the scoring causes the ticking or tapping noise?

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The only miles from here on out will be to the shop that did the reman.

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Jake explains this in his video on bore scoring, I suggest you watch them all!

Assuming the worst,, If they have to tear it all the way down, I know its some bucks but maybe pick up some Nickies for the re-assembly? I cant imagine a rod problem that didn't do some cylinder damage on one of these.. the bores may have been clean and purty but ovaled.... Good LUCK!

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Or continue and things may get super exciting. I�ve seen rods knock the sides out of engine blocks from similar sounds.

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Yeah, that and I've seen pistons yanked completely off the rod, but I don't want to be a fear monger...

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This is an overview of what they do on a reman engine. I�ll be inquiring on what they plan do do if the cylinders are toast. Mechanical problems just don�t go away or get better on their own. Instead, the problem escalates, creating more damage until complete engine failure occurs. Once the engine has seized, the only solution is to remanufacture the engine assembly. Our ASE Certified technicians have the knowledge and experience required for involved, technically challenging engine remanufacturing. We guarantee to do our best to ensure that, with proper care and maintenance, every engine we remanufacture lasts a lifetime. We offer a comprehensive warranty on all of our products, so our customers can rest assured that they are getting the best quality workmanship available. Our standard warranty on complete Saddle Brook engine remanufacturing is 3 years / 100,000 miles � you simply won�t find a better warranty in the industry. engine remanufacturing process restores worn engines to Original Manufacturer Equipment tolerances. Each engine is placed through the procedure as follows: Disassembly: Each engine is taken apart and thoroughly inspected. Cleansing: All components are cleaned using the latest technological equipment to remove all dirt and residue. Inspection: Each component is then re-inspected for potential fractures, warping, or any other damage that may have occurred. Resurfacing: The surfaces of the engine are cut using state of the art Sunnen equipment to return the engine to original manufacturer specifications. This includes the cylinder liners, cylinder heads, valves and seats, and also the crankshaft. New Replacement Parts: We use only the highest quality parts in your engine. Federal Mogul and FelPro are just a few of the nationally trusted brands we use. Expert Assembly: Our ASE Certified Technicians assemble each engine by hand, ensuring accuracy and precision. Installation: Each engine in installed into your vehicle by ASE certified technicians using the proper protection equipment to avoid body damage. Also employed is the latest in diagnostic software from Interro, Snap-On, and OTC to ensure the proper function and longevity of your vehicle. Final Inspection: Each completed engine and vehicle will undergo extensive inspection and testing prior to being released to you. A properly running vehicle is your lifeline to the world. Let us help you get there! We can get you back to your life � and even help to save you a few dollars in the long run. We are here to help, let us show you how!

Nice ad, no real substance there though.

Yeah, sounds like they can rebuild an engine generically, but the M96 is far from generic. That warranty is going to be worth it!

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I do hope it works out for you, but.... I'd do what the last owner did and sell it after executing the warranty.

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https://headmasterinc.com/engine-and...addle-brook-nj OP - it's obvious from your last post that the engine was "remanufactured" by Headmaster Automotive in Saddle Brook, NY, correct? (Google is my friend) First of all, this is not a remanufactured engine. Only the manufacturer can claim to truly "remanufacture" an engine. I know, it's just another way of saying "rebuilt", but what would concern me greatly is these are NOT Porsche specialists. I wonder if they even pay to have a Porsche PIWIS on site? I've heard the license for PIWIS is more than $20,000/ year? Not trying to throw stones at this shop. I know many great one-stop-shops in my area, but I would never NEVER take a Porsche or any other exotic sports car to these companies. They're great for the run-of-the-mill common cars like chevys or fords, but not high performance cars like the 911. Now, in the description, the shop notes they use "cylinder liners". Wonder if that is an iron or steel liner or is it being completely bored out and replaced with Nikasil plated cylinder bores? Are they using all new Porsche OEM parts or are they addressing known failure points (e.g. factory cylinder's piston pin offset, IMS bearing, etc.)? Since they mention Federal Mogul and Fel Pro, I'm assuming they use quite a bit of aftermarket parts. And so, is it truly a "remanufactored" engine if they're not using all Porsche factory parts? Also, what you don't know is what they're reusing on the old engine. They explain that during the disassembling process, they examine all components and are cleaned. Therefore, I'm sure they reuse a lot of old parts in addition to new aftermarket parts. Are they reusing the fuel injectors? pistons? timing chains? water pump? AOS? IMS bearing? All of these things would be replaced with new components from a reputable Porsche shop. I could go on and on, but I wish you the best and hope that for the good of the forum, you'll report back on the details. Maybe some photographs along the way too? Good luck, OP!

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New AOS, new ln ims, new water pump new Tiptronic module. Those are the things I recall seeing along with a whole other page of seals gaskets etc That I don�t know about as I�m not a mechanic. I can do oil changes and that�s about it. Lol. .this is my first Porsche. I�m learning a lot. I thought I did due diligence on research,PPI before purchase.The shop cant get to it for a few weeks. Which is fine as I planned on putting it up for the winter. They�ve been easy to work with so far and good customer service. I�m not sure if they have a Porsche PIWIS but I do know they do have 1 tech that they use to work on Porsche. Once I get it to them to diagnose I will report back. If they need to break the engine down again I�ll make sure to get a detailed report on what will be done on the rebuild. I�m sure I�ll need everyone�s help here to decipher it. Thanks for your help.

I am no 996/997 pro however ticking is not normal at all despite what other may be commenting online here. No offence to anyone at all, but we cannot just toss out troubleshooting advise from people who do not know to troubleshoot and not shot off the hip. I have been building many different small and large diesel engine as well as gasoline engines for a career for over 35 years now and my own experience and checking out a used 997 C4S bit me in the a**. I have bore score at 68k, bought the car at 60k, and check oil filter for debris, pulled plugs, bore scoped before I bought it and like a kick in the can, on a nice fall ride, blue smoke, pass side exhaust blowing out oil all over the right corner and tail lamp and a 1/2 quart of oil in 100 miles. What a piece of crap engine to fail like that, having not know all the prior operation details, but others that have had this happen after proper care and proper warm up who is to say. Being "rebuilt" what does that mean? I have heard that many times but facts are facts and hopefully the paperwork is accurate and detailed and a shop to honor a warranty Please do your homework, make sure that ticking is not the result of the repair rather the cause of bore score ie: something being left loose, broken chain guide some one did not replace I myself just signed papers for a FlatSix stage 2. What the hell

The warranty is being honored. There was no push back when I called. They said to bring it after the holiday. I�m having an independent Porsche shop do an inspection and scope the cylinders before I bring it to the shop for warranty work. That way I�ll have an independent report of what�s going and to confirm is a cylinder problem and not something else causing it. I just find it odd no smoke on start, no oil loss. No knock at higher Rpm and when warm. Just at idle when cold 🤷*♂️ We ll soon find out. Bringing it to Cantech nov 12th.

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^^^Best decision EVER...

Been dealing with a tick on the drivers side for several months now. Got my stethoscope tried a lot of different things. Re-installed spark plugs, checked exhaust tried. swepco 502, and different oil. It finally turned out to be the exhaust manifold gasket. Don’t give up hope!

mrdeezy said it all! You have to check it out! trust and "trust but verify" I have had many customers over the years think the worst and had a rather simple problem and that also can go the other way. I see many, many posts about ticking and oil smoke on M96/M97 engines, and also some claiming that cars operated in "northern climates" are subject to this problem because of cold oil, or not properly warming up a engine, due to the un-equal expansion rates of the piston to the bore. Also, some say it is inferior materials used to plate stock cylinders or the tight tolerances of piston to wall for stock engines due to epa restrictions .When oil slime/smoke is out one exhaust on a split exhaust system, it is NEVER AOS, can't be, because the AOS returns to a common plenum for ALL CYLINDERS. , which means something is shared only to that bank of cylinders ..agreed? All does not matter when we all purchase a polished fast dream car, some of us can afford a few or more cars, some only have one hobby, and that is o own a 91I and can only afford one higher mileage versions. We all are adults here and it stinks when you are at the bottom of the pile with a bad problem,and an expensive one! So if need be, get a second opinion or third for that matter and always remember the expensive quote or inexpensive quote may not be equal as far as quality goes. These forums are a great tool and some of the info here has been the best, from people who have had the same problem, and some of the info advise here has been the worst from people who have had the same problem I researched a lot about this and elected to have FlatSix build an engine, and I already have a parts list including LN machined block, welded IMS, etc and just the parts alone were getting close to engine assembly that was dyno tested, with a tuner and warrantied . All other engines are substandard. Anyone in the future, please take this into consideration when purchasing a used vehicle with a "rebuilt" engine. I should have done even more research then I did and passed on my 911 in lieu of a 911 with a 9A1 engine, which has a better architecture but can have problems too. But then again, I just replaced the drain pump in my LG front load washer, which was 22.00, so nothing is forever.Sorry I talk too much!

This is not a tick like an exhaust leak. This is full on rod knock, piston knock or the worst case of piston rock I�ve ever heard. This is not a minor issue.

You can simply pull the oil filter and look for debris, metal flakes, pearl color in oil, etc. These engines have a small bypass in the filter housing I believe like most wet sump/dry sump pressure fed engines regardless of the size , that when cold, oil bypasses filter for a short period of time until oil can flow through the filter paper, this way oil pressure is achieved when the oil is to thick to go though the filter. Then, as a result, if there is debris in oil, and filter, when cold, un filtered, oil, with debris simply passes through all components pressure fed, rod, main bearings, cam bearings etc, and makes a real mess. Different engine I have seen over the years have different "secondary " failures as a result. Listening to the video, I would agree it's "deep"...Rod/wrist pin/piston slap. I did not see the video earlier for some reason, but I would hope I am a better mechanic than post reader on rennlist

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There is a simple way to solve the above problem. Buy the LN spin on filter adapter and run the appropriate spin on filter that does not have the bypass valve. Problem solved. You will have one when you get your F6I Stage 2 engine back.

correct! but damage to an engine is already done and need an overhaul regardless This is why I will not run my engine, as a cold start will send trash through the system, all that nice fine aluminum debris through the entire lube system. FlatSix is adding all updates to my engine, including the spin on adapter but that comes with updated M97 IMS, which differs from M96 IMS The comment was meant for current damage to an engine and it's after damage from a primary failure, that still has the by pass valve system

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I thought FSI uses the Solution for all their builds? Some M96 factory replacements also have the M97 type IMSB's.

I did not type that correct. It is an IMS solution for M97 which differs from M96 IMS solution which designs are FSI.. I knew better that to type that As noted in many areas, IMS on M96 can be replaced in the car prior to failure or as prevention where M97 IMS is internal and required complete engine dis assembly Amazing that some engineer thought it to be a reliable design on both IMS's ..I would think with a little though and design change the IMS shaft could have been eliminated completely , but there is compromise with all design, and that is why some bolt holes a slotted, not drilled straight

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Yes, The IMS Solution is standard on all of our engines, and has been since 2014, before this the tripe row IMSB was standard, and the IMS Solution was an option that a lot of people chose.

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What better testament to the complexities of rebuilding these engines!

I will drop off this discussion now about this topic. I can only speak from my own experience with rebuilding a multitude of engine brands, types and designs. It is not arrogance , just fact due to my career choice and my business which I have run for 30 some years. I bleed this stuff! I love it, at work and at home, now showing my two sons the right way to do things, I have also helped many guys along the way, as far as employees as well. It's my life. I see Jake Raby, who I have not had the pleasure to talk to yet, is cut from the same cloth. His GM Jud, called me at 7 o'clock or so, after work before a vacation just to reply to a e-mail I sent about my failed engine. That impressed the s*&t out of me, and have had Jake himself respond as well and now I see he also tracks these forums as well. Now ..that's commitment with no BS and that is why they received my deposit and signed contract today for a reconstructed engine When id doubt, contact the professionals people, PLEASE..it's not all about savings and flashy crap and poor advise from people who mean really mean well. I wish the topic starter the best of luck