Buying my first Porsche

Hello all! I suppose this can be my introduction while asking a question that hopefully won't come off dumb (I've searched I swear!). My name is Brennan, I'm in the process of buying my first Porsche. It's a 2002 Carerra 4 cabriolet, manual with 110k miles. Owning a 911 has been a dream that I thought wouldn't be attainable until I was in my mid to late 30s. As of this date I'm 27, so definitely ahead of my given curve! So very much hoping this sale goes through smoothly. Which leads me to my noob question. The dreaded and very much spoken about IMS (bearing). I lucked out and via the CarFax I was able to contact the garage that has serviced the car for the last 6 years. Surprisingly they actually provided me with records and costs for that entire period. On 6/26/2014 with 72k miles, the IMS was replaced with the ceramic bearing kit along with a clutch replacement. The clutch will likely need to be replaced soon as it is 40k miles old (which is a conversation for another day). After this short drawn story, Will the IMS need to be replaced along with the clutch again? Or should I be fine with the current upgraded bearing kit? I will not be daily driving this car. It will maybe see 5k miles a year for the occasional sunny commute in Seattle and weekend drives along the mountain windy roads. Any help that can be provided will be greatly appreciated, and hopefully I'll be able to safely purchase this 996 and join you all officially-officially on the forums! -Brennan

Welcome. There is now a lifetime bearing from LN. https://lnengineering.com/products/i...SAAEgIZ0vD_BwE No offence meant, but you can't have searched very hard. There are hundreds of threads, and the company is also a paid vendor here.

Was the ceramic bearing upgrade the earlier one made by LN? If so, there may be no need to upgrade to the current version made by LN which will add at least another $849 to the tab. You should discuss the differences between the kits and the need (if any) to switch w/LN. If the upgraded IMS kit in the car now was not made by LN, you'll have to decide if it's important enough to you dollar wise to make the switch or not. LN is considered the best currently available and if you want the peace of mind that provides, then you'll have to pay the price.

Be cautious of who you take advice from. Even the LN Retrofit (not the Solution) has a service life.

I would replace it with The IMS Solution and then you never have to worry about it again. It will also help resale, if you ever decide to sell it.

Hiya Brennan - depending on the type of bearing installed, here's your shelf life: http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/ The question I have for you is - how big a deal is a blown engine to you? Based on your answer - follow preventative maintenance advice on this forum accordingly.

I appreciate the responses! I definitely want to make sure the motor lasts. Especially since a replacement would be near double what I'll be paying for the car. Based on the price of the part used, $650, it was certainly not the "IMS solution". Though the part number indicates that it is. I like to think I'll hit the lottery during the PPI and I'll see an oil line traveling into the IMS bearing! Hahah This is very helpful though as it does appear I'll want to get a new bearing (if not the serviceable one) installed. Thank you all!!

It's easy enough to tell if it's "The Solution". Crawl under the car and see if the oil feed line is present. It should be coming from just above the oil filter (the part that the filter screws into) and it should feed through a hole in the crankcase just below the IMS bearing flange. The feed hose should be braided stainless steel and the fittings should be blue anodized aluminum. If these things aren't present, it's not "The Solution" (regardless of the part # on the invoice)...

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If it's not the LN Engineering IMS Solution, then I'd definitely replace it with the clutch and flywheel. During the PPI, request they bore scope bank#2. Sounds like you're finally seeing your dream come true. Congrats! Just know, that these are great cars, but you must understand the risks involved with owning a premium sports car like the Porsche 911. The M96 based Carreras have many modes of failure, but if you make good preventive steps, then you'll avoid failure and see many more miles of smiles!

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Always a good idea to confirm what and when it was installed.

There is TONS of information on this forum, but Jake Raby's Rennvision Youtube Channel is a great place to begin to understand the failures that plague these cars and how to look out for them. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvI...iWnpFFh9qy9ZvA As you're just getting started it may feel a bit like drinking from a fire hose, but trust me when I say there is no better instructor than Jake at concisely and efficiently breaking down these technical discussions and feeding you the information you need. (My opinion, of course..) The reason why you're going to need to know these things is because the M96 engine has a lot of specific quirks, and even the most well-meaning mechanics out there can make mistakes in diagnosis and repair. Porsche specialist or not. There are signs of engine wear that will be extremely helpful to learn when it comes to catching modes of failure early and diagnosing the appropriate steps to repair your car. That means, in a more positive light, understanding what seems like a big deal but is actually not, so long as you remedy the issue immediately. These cars can be high-strung as they're aging girls. Next year the Mk1's will be old enough to drink. But damn, if they don't still turn heads! Happy motoring and good luck.

I'm actually in a similar situation to the OP. I just checked on the work done on the 2000 C4 Cab that I just bought and, based on the part # in the work order, it was LN Engineering's earlier dual row kit (Part #106.08.4) that was installed in my car. This kit is only warrantied for 2 yrs/24k miles (the 2 years has lapsed) and replacement is recommended every 75k miles/6 years. It only has 4k miles on it since installation but it was installed in Nov 2016 and replacement is recommended in just 3 years. LN's current "Solutions" kit is supposedly designed for the "life of the engine" and is warrantied for 5yrs/unlimited miles. Does this mean that the Solutions kit is warrantied for an unlimited # of miles but ONLY w/in a 5 year period? If so, then the warranty really isn't good for the "life of the engine." In any event, I'm wondering the same thing that the OP in the thread above was wondering about. Should I replace the earlier kit w/the Solutions kit when the time comes or just let it go and keep my fingers crossed? I suppose that their track record isn't long enough to know what the actual useful life of the earlier (or later) kits is but do you any of you know if any of LN's earlier kits (like mine) that have reportedly failed yet? Please advise, thank-you.

Change it ASAP!

For those who may be curious, I did end up moving forward with the purchase of my, new to me, Carrera 4! After a quick visit to my local Porsche dealer in Tacoma for a PPI, she got a clean bill of health. According to the tech and service writer this one one of the nicer 996s they had seen considering its age and miles (02', 110k miles). Following the morning visit she got a full detail from my buddy and I. After some wet sanding, polishing, and a sealant this is the final result! Because I have an issue all of my vehicles do get a name. She'll be known as Amelia. Named after Amelia Earhart because she really does fly. Cheesy yes, but I think it fits!

Congrats! Although I'm 2nd guessing my own decision to buy a 2000 C4 Cab with "only" 90k miles on it, I do love the car as I am sure you do yours. There's apparently nothing you can do to prevent certain problems w/the engine, so you should prepare yourself for such eventualities both financially and otherwise in event that they arise. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, just read the various threads on reported engine failures w/the 996 posted in this forum. I not trying to be a "downer." Just trying to give you "fair warning" of the "dark side" of 996 ownership that you may not (as I was not) aware of when you bought the car. I hope that despite these reports that you (and I both) have many years of problem free ownership driving these cars. Enjoy!

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Correct, that means that the IMS Solution is warranted for an unlimited number of miles in a 5 yr period only.and as many miles as you can put on it in 5 yrs as long as it was installed by an authorized shop. For the retrofit kits, LN says they are a wear item and are only good for a certain mileage/time interval and should be changed out. So, if you follow the mfr's instructions, yes, you should update the IMS to another retrofit or the Solution when that interval is up. I'm facing the same in a couple years...PO put a retrofit in just before I bought it. I will probably opt for the Solution.

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I'm a bit confused by the "warranty" provided for the Solution kit too because, while LNE touts it as a being "designed for the life of the engine" and is warranted for UNLIMITED miles, the warranty is still limited to 5 years as well. Does this mean that all LN IMS upgrades, including the Solution, should be replaced every 5 years? Seems like that's what they're saying but there's no way I'm going to replace the IMS every 5 years, like it's an "ordinary" service item, especially at a current cost of around $4-5k to do the job. I "might" replace the earlier upgrade kit in my 996 now w/the Solution, in 3 years (when the current warranty expires) if there's a reason to do so but, given the cost, there are a lot of reasons that I would NOT want to do it unless it's absolutely necessary. I'll just have to make that decision if/when the time comes.

You are mixing metaphors and confusing "warranty" with "service life" or "service interval". Two different concepts. Just like your TV, which is warranted for 2 years, but has a much longer service life...or, say, the water filter in my fridge, which is warranted not to fall apart or spring a leak in a month, but must be changed out every 6 mos. The IMS Solution is a permanent repair, the service life of which is the lifetime of the engine. You will never need to replace it, it has no service interval. The warranty is against defects in workmanship or installation if prequalified and installed at an authorized distributor (I believe...the warranty section of the website is down, so I can't read the warranty FAQ for the Solution). The retrofit kits are wear items with a limited service life and must be changed (per the manufacturer) at an interval of 4yrs or 50k miles (whichever comes first) for the Retrofit Classic, 6 years or 75k miles (whichever comes first) for IMS Retrofit Dual Row or IMS Retrofit Single Row Pro from LN Precision. However, I believe it has a limited warranty against workmanship defects of the part itself.

So why doesn't LNE just give a lifetime, unlimited mileage, warranty on the Solution upgrade ?

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Because something else such as damage by impact during accident, some other engine component that fails and causes the solution to fail, etc etc. shouldn�t justify a free replacement unit.

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The same reason Porsche doesn�t give an unlimited miles/year warranty for the rest of the car. It�s a horrible business decision and no one expects it. You have to have a limit to a warranty or the possible liability never ends. The only reason why some manufacturers give unlimited warranties is they are betting that most people sell their vehicles within just a few years. Some crazy people plan to keep their old Porsches forever.

Congratulations! That's a nice shine. These are awesome cars. Drive it and enjoy!

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I don't disagree with this BUT they are also saying that the Solution is "designed to last the life of the engine" which (while it is probably true that they DESIGNED it to last the life of the engine) is a bit misleading because they are actually only offering a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty. Will a Solution upgrade have to be replaced in 5 years as is suggested for earlier upgrades (like the one in my car)? Probably not but the only thing you have to rely on is their "claim" that the design of the Solution will actually survive the life of the engine because, if it doesn't last beyond 5 years, you will not be protected by their warranty beyond that time and will have to pay for a blown engine if it fails. Guess it just depends on how much you are willing to trust LNE's claim that it will last the engine's lifetime because there's not yet enough of a track record to prove that it's a valid claim or not. BTW, if you actually read LNE's warranty, there are so many exclusionary provisions in it, including an attempt to exclude liability for the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose (which is arguably legally impermissible and contrary to their statement that the Solution is "designed" to last the lift of the engine) that it is unclear that they are accepting any liability for engine failure as the result of the installation of the Solution beyond their express warranty that the Solution itself is free from defects, if it is installed by a "qualified" installer PRECISELY in accordance with "all guidelines and procedures." So, fair warning, there's enough exclupatory langugage in LNE's so-called warranty to make proof of a claim (if they want to dispute it) all but impossible to establish without a long legal battle that'll cost a lot more than replacing an engine. I should know since I'm was an attorney specializing in product liability litigation (for the defense) in one of my past lives. See: Line to LNE Warranties

It makes sense for a company to have a time limit on liability. This is why coupons and items with "limited life time warranty" have some expiration date or condition. A co-worker of mine had an AMC Rambler sedan as his work car. He put a Firestone battery in it in the 1970s that had an unlimited life time warranty, as long as he owned the car. He didn't sell it until he retired around 2014. He went through about ten free replacement batteries over the 40 years he drove it. They made him show proof of ownership and registration each time he got a new battery because they were losing money on him.

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LOL, now I understand, you are a lawyer. So, lemme get this straight...you are quibbling over the fact that the IMS Solution is designed for lifetime use yet is not fully warranted for a lifetime? How many other transactions have you made in your life that are similar. You took a 30 yr mortgage on your abode, with no guarantee it would still stand in 30 years. You bought cars on loans, probably, with no lifetime warranty even for the life of your loan. You bought TV's that you expect to last more than 1 year, but they only carry limited warranties of 1-2 years. The list goes on. . Well, from an engineer's perspective, the reality is that the IMS Solution constitutes a hydrostatically loaded plain bearing...literally a simple hunk of metal that is designed to take shear loading and friction it will see as long as it is fed with oil. It doesn't get much simpler than that. It is the same concept that is used on the OTHER end of the intermediate shaft in the original 996 design. The plain bearing end doesn't fail (that I've heard)...the ball bearing on transmission side does!. Plain bearings have worked in previous 911 designsand about a gazillion other applications for a couple centuries. It is a completely different technology than the sealed ball bearings used in the original design. No, you will not have to replace it as long as it is consistently fed with oil and you can have great confidence in it. That's not some kind of Jake worship, that's basic engineering. The fact that there already exists an oil fed plain bearing in every 996 motor is certainly track record to prove that such bearings work. The difference, if you believe that the original 996 ball bearings themselves are the weak point, is that the Retrofit bearings MUST be replaced at some point as they face the same potential catastrophic failure mode as the original basic bearing design on the car.

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Not "quibbling." Just trying to be clear on what's covered and what's not. Based on what I've read, you really just have to take it on "faith" that the IMS Solution will do the job. If not, good luck meeting all of the requirements specified in LNE's warranty in order to obtain warranty coverage if the upgrade fails. BTW, I was only a lawyer for a short period of time but you don't forget your training. I was a COP a much longer period of time and I preferred being a cop. There are actually a lot of similarities between the professions, particularly as it pertains to reading and interpreting legal matters but cops have the powers of arrest; lawyers don't.

I was just busting stones about the lawyer thing. However, it isn't "faith" in the IMS Solution...it is applied physics and the fact that it is a solution that works in all other Porsche cars. I have no doubt that the Solution, if installed on my 911, would be the last component I would worry about surviving in that car! BTW, there are other direct oil fed permanent installation options out there besides Raby'....EPS offers one, for instance, and they claim their cylindrical bearing design will last the lifetime of the engine (5 yr warranty) and " Since we started to sell our EPS Cylindrical IMS Bearing in 2013, we have sold 5,000 units in total, and we have NOT had a report of a single failure". So, you have other choices. Good luck with your decision...whether it is sell, upgrade, or just enjoy!

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The problem with the Vertexauto/EPS so called direct oil fed roller IMS bearing system is that they cut a channel in the oil pump drive and then feed oil through the IMS shaft in order to lubricate a roller type bearing. This is very bad in my opinion - it can cause balancing issues with the intermediate shaft , weaken the oil pump drive, and you take away 1 quart of oil for the crankcase. Another problem I have with this company is that they market it as the IMS solution and call it patented. I read their patent and the ONLY thing that is patented is one part in the whole system - a single trust control washer. That's it! But yet, they promote and market their product as the patented "IMS Solution". The LN Engineering name The IMS Solution is a product trademark and protected by law. At least that's my understanding. It's still amusing to see them piggyback off the success of the LN product through their marketing techniques. I'm sure it's not amusing to Raby and LN.

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Perhaps my response was so short that it was missed, but it doesn�t make it any less valid. They are warranting one part that is used with countless other parts that they have no ability to qualify how long they will last. If an engine succumbs to bore scoring, d-chunking, a broken timing chain or literally hundreds of other possible catastrophic failures, it would be easy for a shop to claim it was the fault of the bearing in lieu of its known popularity for taking out M96 motors. Not to mention the quality of care a car is given post install. That�s precisely why they also require the solution to be installed by an authorized shop and only AFTER the rest of the car has been pre-qualified for a solution installation. Their warranty seems reasonable and makes sense to me.

Not to derail the talk of warranty... If I'm being honest I'm really not worried about IMS failure. The failure rate is between 5-8%. If I paid the original price over $100k back in 02' that would be one thing. But as a toy car, literally 3rd car? Ehhhh life is too short to be scared of a 5-8%. Now all that being said.... when it's time for a new clutch I suppose itll be worth it to spend the extra 600 bucks to get a new one slapped in.

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Why not name it a male name? Why is it always a female??? I mean, you could call it Rambo or Eastwood if you're looking to keep it rough and tough.

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Hmmmm when she gets retired and replaced by a 997 coupe I may need to go with Rambo! However that's thinking wayyyyy into the future haha

Congrats on the C4 Cab! Looks really nice in black!

These days most every warranty out there is used as a marketing tool.Its not actually worth a damn in most cases, just leads to a false sense of security for purchasers. When I was involved with the IMS Retrofit products, they had a 30 day warranty, and as far as I was concerned, that was still too long. The way I looked at it, if I had to give someone a piece of paper to make them buy something that I had all those years of development invested in, I didn't want to sell it to them. These are some of the reasons why I have not been party to any of this for so many years. My engines have a 1 year/ unlimited mileage warranty, currently. I figure that is still too long, in 2020, and beyond if someone wants a warranty, they'll have to buy it. Of course, they can go to the guy that has no idea what he is building, but will give the buyer a 5 year warranty, knowing that he'll be shut down in less than 2 years, and on to the next LLC and business name. People are fooled almost everyday in regard to these engines, and a warranty. One shop I know of is giving a 5 year warranty for an M8X engine, and they have only been building engines for 2 years. I know that, because the shop owner, and one of the "engine builders" attended my class 20 months ago, and had zero M9X experience. Don't let that piece of paper fool you. The best warranty is the one you never need, not the one that some marketing group put together.

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You don't expect auto makers to give you a lifetime warranty - why would a guy making products for the aftermarket be held to a higher standard?

Wow. Maybe they should include health insurance with the IMS Solution purchase, too?

On a positive note, after being away on vacation for 2 weeks and not driving my 2000 C4 Cab for about another week until today, the car (which has been on a Battery Tender all that time) started right up. Yes, I know that not driving it more often can cause problems in itself but I've got 5 other cars that need to be driven as well. That's just the way it is. Life goes on. Anyway, no smoke on start up (after the shop that recently did an oil change on it sucked out the excess oil they put in it) and, after a suitable engine warm up, drove it hard into triple digits a couple times with ease and never got past 5th gear doing it. The top even went up and down w/o complaint after giving me some warning signs earlier. It was a lot of fun. Still waiting on my reg so that I can buy a 2nd key for it and still need to get the dealer to assess a problem w/the central locking alarm system and still need to buy/install a new driver's side window regulator, which should be all of the "repair" work that I need to do to the car for now. Have my eye on a set of OEM hollow Turbo Twist 18" wheels to replace the 19" aftermarket wheels on the car but am in no hurry to buy them. The other things are more important and 1st "accessory" that I'll probably buy will be a full exterior and/or top down interior Covercraft cover for the car. Also need to switch my insurance from State Farm standard coverage to a Haggerty's Collector Car policy to save about $400/yr. BTW, my prior comments regarding LNE's warranty were NOT based on an expectation that they would protect all buyers of their kits from ANY RISKS but only to point out the obvious limitations in their warranties.

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This is how I view mine... I'm the third owner, first owner had it to about 50k miles, serviced to the "T" with full stamps, last owner had it as a third car, took relatively good care of it, and I spend way too much on maintenance keeping it tip-top. Failure rate from what I've read is even lower on Tip trannys (like mine), and at 92.3k miles, if it was going to break, it probably would have by now is the advice I rec'd from both of my techs (who would LOVE to sell me a multiple thousand$ replacement if it were good for busine$$), so yeah. I drive mine like I've got days to live and it's been nothing but fun. Been way more reliable than other modern "luxury" brands i've owned such as Caddy, BMW and Lexus, FWIW. Rag that thing out, and run the engine to the redline and listen to it howl! What a sound!

The only sure method of evaluating the need for a clutch replacement is an " eye ball level inspection" by an experienced Tech. FWIW-clutch life is heavily dependent on shifting slippage (i.e., driver's skill)...my original clutch was replaced at 95K miles and still had 15-20K miles of life in it. Given the mileage of your prospective purchase, I would plan to replace the dual mass flywheel (DMF) if/when another clutch is called for. Also, if/when the DMF is replaced, do not re-use the old mounting bolts...use new bolts purchased from Porsche. relinuca

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Indeed! Just over 6k rpms seems to be the sweet spot when the engine really starts to howl. Gets me hard each time I hear/feel it open up at that level but I've gotta pay a lot more attention to the road than my crotch at that point. LOL!

Yes, by all means get the IMS Solution from LNE. Just finishing mine up now. 2004 911 Cab. The LN bearings come with a serial number that is traceable since install. Most recommend replace at 5 years. I think 75k miles but not sure. Mine went 44k miles and 7 years. Once the LN bearing came out, I could tell it had worn but just a bit. I am a long time tool maker/machinist by trade so I knew what to feel as normal. Also changed out the original clutch as well. Hopefully I get the car back tomorrow and have piece of mind for years to come.