Suspension questions

Ok, question. I have two choices i have to make. I cant do both the PSS9 and the H/R sways at the same time and am considering starting with the H/R sways first, before the PSS9 install. I would like to see how the handling would change with the sways in, before dropping the dime on the PSS9 set up. Anyone have experience with sways only? Should i do the sways first or the PSS9's? Any help?

I'd do both at the same time so you only have to deal with a proper alignment once...... Save the money for beer or something....

Youi should just do the RoW 030, more than enough for your car.

I am doing the RoW M030 in 3 weeks. I just got it in and have scheduled the install for later this month. I took pics and measurements last night. Then I can not only compare stock vs. RoW M030 handling feel but the F/R height change as well. I got the entire kit with F/R shocks, springs, stabilizer bars for $1K shipped. Much better than the $2K plus for the PSS9 alone. I plan only only tracking the car 1/2 dozen or less times a year (time permitting). I will post results when instsalled.

$1k shipped? That sounds like a good deal! Do you mind if I ask from where?

Just PM'ed you.

C4bliss: if you want to start off gradually, go with the rear sway only from the ROW/US 030 package. It'll get rid of a large amount of your understeer and still preserve a good ride. I ran this way for a while until I cobbled together the $$ to get the rest of the kit installed. FWIW, I love the ROWM030. Huge improvement, and looks much better too.

Will the row30 stiffen or control the sway of the car on corners? It is all over the place on corners and that is really buggin me...

Sway is significantly reduced, as is the "vertical" motion in the suspension, especially in front. The car is very nicely buttoned-down now. Great compromise for the street, imo.

If you can only do one, would do sways first, then PSS9's. Don't worry about the alignment, you don't need to re-align if you're only doing a sway bar upgrade, only after you do the PSS9's.

How does ROW M030 compare to US M030 in height and stiffness? Would an ROW rear bar clean up understeer on US M030? Opinions?

ok, have anyone installed the techquipment row m030 10mm lowering kit? From my conversations with the dealer, it wont lower the ride but will stiffen it up and decrease the sway.

That's the US 030 sport suspension option. Since the ROW (rest of world, by the way) M030 only lowers slightly more, and from what I've read is a big upgrade from US 030, I'd go with that. also, the pricing is very similar between the two.

US M030 Sport Suspension Front Stabilizer 9.58% stiffer Rear Stabilizer 24.15% stiffer Front Springs 16.6% stiffer Rear Springs 28.2% stiffer Front Shocks (rebound) 21.1% softer Front Shocks (compression) 13.7% softer Rear Shocks (rebound) 26.1% stiffer Rear Shocks (compression) Same ROW M030 Sport Suspension Front Stabilizer 9.58% stiffer Rear Stabilizer 24.15% stiffer Front Springs 16.6% stiffer Rear Springs 28.2% stiffer Front Shocks (rebound) 8.1% stiffer Front Shocks (compression) 9.6% softer Rear Shocks (rebound) 36.1% stiffer Rear Shocks (compression) 15.2% stiffer The ROW is approx 20mm lower than US 030, IIRC

US M030 lowers 0 RoW M030 lowers 10mm rear and 20mm front I have a great article that talks about the differnce between US Std/Sport and RoW Std and RoW Sport. FYI....there is no difference in height between the US std and sport suspension. If you want to lower the ride hieght you need the RoW sport suspension. Just PM me if you want the article.

Scratch that PM request. You need to email me if you want the article since I can't attach a file to a PM. Cheers, Dell

Unless you're planning on changing the ride height of the car on a regular basis (and re-aligning it), coilovers are a waste of money. Go with either the ROW M030 or some H&R springs with Bilsteins.

Note: My "period" key just quit so this post will look a bit weird I really don't undertand all the comments suggesting M030 over PSS9s, The stock suspension is just fine, M030 improves handling, ROW M030 improves handling and improves the look of the car by lowering it slightly, H&Rs do everthing that M030 does but also allows you to set ride height which allows you to corner balance the car and change the front to back "rake", PSS9s do everything H&Rs do plus allow you to adjust damping, Motons and other dual/triple adjustables allow you to separately adjust compression and rebound, I think each owner has to decide just how good they want their car to handle and how stiff a ride they are willing to put up with, They also must determine how much they are willing to spend, To answer the original question, you'll eventually want both the anti-sway bars and the coilovers, I would get the coilovers first as they will have the most impact but that's just me, Jim

well from the sounds of it, the pss9's will give me the ride i am looking for, adjustable as i might need, and i would need sways no matter what system i choose. my local shop recommended that i buy the bilstien set up, and bring it to them to install. I found an excellent deal for it, and the boss gave me permission to "just do the damn car the way you want it!" So thanks all!

I can't lower ride height due to driveway restrictions. I just want to clean up understeer. It appears that the rear bar is the same from the specs that are posted above, so that doesn't look like my answer.

leedav, I would be a little sceptical about replace the rear bar with a stiffer one. First off, it's correcting your understeer by reducing rear grip. I'm not certain that reducing performance is the best answer to improving the car. Also, how do you know that it will be the right sway bar combo for your tires, your driving style, etc. By paying a little more for front and rear adjustable bars you will have much more control over understeer/oversteer. I'm not sure it's a good idea to take understeer out but if that's your goal then adjustable bars are the way to go. Just my 2 cents worth. Jim

Sounds like c4bliss is looking for a nice street ride that handles well with occasional track use. If that's it, I would really stop at the RoW 030, pss9's could turn your bliss into horror. Do you really want to be doing constant chassis adjustments and alignments?

C4S, I don't understand your comments. Why would you be doing constant chassis and alignment adjustments with PSS9s? I think 99% of all users set the ride height, align and corner balance PSS9s once. You do retain the option of raising or lowering them if your needs/desires change but that isn't a frequent event. With M030s you are stuck with what comes in the box. The only adjustment you do on a regular basis is to change the damping to change the stiffness of the car between the track and the street. That is literally a couple minute change. On single adjustable shocks it's also pretty easy to get is set right. Once you get to dual adjustable it gets a lot more complicated. Am I missing something? Jim

No Jim, you're not missing anything. Even the period key works..... Alignment settings only need to be changed when ride height changes.

Hey Jim B., I thought you hate PSS9's, why is the sudden change of heart.

C4S, yes, it is a street ride for the 99% of the time. But it is not a daily, and is used on mountain roads for the most part, for "spirited drives". My shop tells me to set it at the 5/6 range and then we can adjust from there if required. What do most of you set your range at?

Jeeva, Did I say I didn't like PSS9s? Maybe but I don't recall the context. What I like about PSS9s is that they allow quite a bit of flexibility without being very complex. That makes them a good street/track compromise. M030s are simple but the lack of height adjustment is a huge drawback. I think the base H&R coilovers are great. I had a set for a couple of years before my car became a racecar. I would recommend them to anyone except that for a small amount of additional money you can have some limited damping adjustment with the PSS9s. For most, the next step into multiple adjustables is not appropriate for the street. I guess that's why for a street/track car I like PSS9s. BTW, I'm on a different computer so I temporarily have my period back. Does anyone know how to change the keyboard on a Sony Viao laptop? Jim

i don't read any like or dislike towards pss9 from JimB's post.. just facts that are relevent to any coilover/adjustable suspension... you don't change it after its setup, unless you are on a race team that adjusts for different tracks (ie: change springs, wheels/tires, alignment for the specific need). for most de's/club racers, you set the ride height, corner balance once and leave it... for jim's racing needs, the over the shelf pss9 will not meet his requirements.

I'd like to know how many people with coilovers ever change their ride height. I don't think there's too many!

Read a GREAT PCA article about M030,ROW30 suspension here: 996 Std & Sport Suspensions Analyzed

Jim, one of the reasons I love the factory sport suspensions for the Porsche so much is that they're actually tuned by the factory which means (to me) that the damping and overall balance is going to be perfect (based on the goals of the system, of course). I've never found an aftermarket setup that had its damping truly perfect. Are the H&R and PSS9 kits for the Porsches that much better than they are for other marques? Do they truly have the damping nailed?

I've been around here long enough to know Jim B. knows a heck of a lot more about setting up a track car than me, and thus obviously agree with everything he has to say on this topic. I thought he had mentioned a few months ago that he did not like the PSS9, but I was wrong... For a question on track mods and putting a 996 on diet posted a few months ago, I think Jim you said any exhaust mods but PSE or something like that, at which point I was contemplating on PSE and PSS9's among others for my own C4S, and today I cofused his recommendation on the exhaust for the suspension.

Jim, my apologies for confusing your past recommendation, I think it was PSE and not PSS9, at that time I was considering both among others, and was put off with the product once I read your comment. I am glad I straightened that out.....pss9 is back on my list as a possible suspension mod., if I decide to keep my car beyond my lease.

fwiw, the pss9 can be upgraded to racing spec. you can have them revalved and resprung with eibach ers springs. however, you will need a spec sheet about 8 pages long for bilstein to work on the revalving (obviously, you need a race suspension expert to get the measurements and values) the over the counter system is a far cry from race spec. its a very nice street setup with a lifetime warranty. there are several race cars that run this setup... including the one that holds the lap record at homestead. mine is setup the same way.

Stiles, I think you are right to some degree but that assumes that there is one "right" suspension. Factory suspensions are a compromise between what's best for commuting, spirited driving, rough roads, smooth roads, steep driveways, track time, etc. I think suspension needs to be tuned to the owner as much as the car. That's why I'm a fan of suspensions that you can make changes to. So that you can tune it to your needs. Jeeva, You are right. I think I did take a shot at PSE. Not for the sound but for the weight. It was probably unfair. There are many very happy PSE customers. Hayaku, I think if you are going to go to all that trouble you would be far better off starting with a dual or triple adjustable. That are plenty of very good ones around. Have a good day. Jim

well, i went and ordered the PSS9 set up, H/R adjustable sways, and a B/M short shift kit for install starting wednesday. I will post before/after pics of the ride afterwards....... thanks!

Where di you get the short shifter and price? I am ordering that mod next!

I am letting my install shop, Akkurat, take care of locating that. Price range was somewhere in the 275 range if i remember right...

Brandywine porsche, 199.95. Braman porsche, porsche ssk 350.00. Simple diy job.

275! B-wine has them for 199. Ooops, I guess C4 got in before me. sorry for the redundancy.

No #(&%#( ?? 199? I will be making a call!

Guys, why are you going w/the B&M shift kit, versus the factory piece? Especially those of you under warranty, if you know what I mean...

Jim, I am glad you did, it was a very important criteria for me, your `2800 lbs. carrera is an inspiration for my poker (granted, my poker is too voluptuous to reach 2800, i'll be happy with ~3000), but weight redction in the rear, especially far out makes a big difference...so when I am ready for my exhaust mod., I'll be looking for the weight and then the sound.

I know it's , but Jim, what exhaust are you recommending?

I'm really considering the PSS9. I would like to raise the right height in the winter so my car doesn't become a plow (I drive it all year as a daily) and then lower it when I put the 18" summers back on. The question I couldn't find is: How do you adjust the height? Can I do it, or do you need to have a shop do it? Thanks, Rob

Can anyone tell me what the OEM GT3 suspension consist of? I've heard it's just H&R springs with Bilstein shocks.. Is that true?

SRL, Sorry but I have no idea. My exhaust system is two eight inch long peices of 3 inch pipe that run from the headers straight out the back. I would consider quality, sound and weight. It seems like you should start with a board sponsor and work from there. Rob, Adjusting height is pretty easy. You just spin (with a tool which is provided) a collar that adjusts the relationship between the spring perch and the damper. The tougher part is that you will need to realign the car. Not a big deal. The other thing to check on is what the max height acheivable with PSS9s is. The max height might not be as high as you want to go in the winter. I don't know. Just guessing. Jim

Jim, Thanks for the info. As long as the max height is about what the car is standard I'll be fine. I have my tires swapped out every winter and when i do I have them align the car if necessary. I'll just have them adjust the suspension when they swapped the winter wheels. Rob