Auto/Tip experiences

I'm going to be adding a 996 turbo cab to the stable (993 currently), and debating manual vs. tip, based on availability. Those who have the auto, how would you rate the driving experience? I had a DCT in my E92 M3, and disliked it immensely, but loved the auto in the Audi R8 and S5.

I have a tip in my 04 cab. No complaints in general, but i haven't had it long enough to do a lot of driving, so I'm still learning about it. It has a reputation for high reliability.and this would be the same transmission in the turbo. My car has a Jake Raby engine so it's got a lot more hp than stock. It's really a matter of what style of driving you want, to shift or not to shift. if you have lots of heavy traffic, the tip is nice. If you like rowing your gears, a manual is nice. I have another Porsche couple with a 6 speed so I can pick my style for the day. I've found the tip s is responsive on its shifts and in manual mode i can hold it longer before shifting. I do wish it had a 6th gear, sometimes it feels like its just not in the precise gear i would want. But, that may be my unfamiliarity with it showing.

Thanks AZ, and great to hear. In my M3, the DCT was jerky and would lurch-- same as the Gallardo with early series autos. Hopefully this one is a better experience.

For me the best thing to do when you have a tip is to install paddle shifters and drive it �manually� as much as you want. By doing so the TIp Control Unit will stay in the most sportive mapping/throttle response. Which in return gives you the best direct and responsive experience. Faster shifts and predictive accelerator. For cruising, driving downtown or stop/go traffic you can stil use the sloppy Auto mode. Be aware that for the turbo car a Tip can feel much more relax due to the turbo characteristics. However the tip transmission weight also more than 100lbs. A lot of it is mass/inertia as it gets spinner around in the drivetrain. A 996turbo Tip is not much faster then a NA 996 C2. It is only from the 997.1 model that the turbo tip is faster than the manual car. i know that it is not all about straight line accelerations but the 996 tip is considerably slower then a manual.

Thanks silk, that's what I was hoping for

Quotes source post: 14981715

A 996 TT Tip is not much faster than a NA 996 C2? Really? That is surely going to be sad and shocking news to the turbo crowd. The 996 auto "considerably slower" than a manual sounds like fake news. Sources please.

From Motor Trend...2001 Turbo http://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsc...1-porsche-911/

I�ve had my tip tt for 5 years and have 0 regrets. The transmission adapts to invidual driving styles and stores that throttle/ shift map based on driver. First thing i did when I got mine was a tune and reset the previous owners mapping. Auto mode isn�t sloppy, I rarely use my steering wheel shift buttons. The only time I do use them really is at a standing start because car goes into D2 due to mapping and I want it in D1 Tiptronics deliver all the power you need at exactly the right time. I came from manual corvettes and honestly if I bought a new vette it would be automatic as well. You just get in and go, and yes you are still �connected� to the car. these really aren�t 0-60 mph cars (still fast off the line) they come alive after boost kicks in and that 60-90 mph wot is really where the tt comes alive. Tip drivers get a lot of guff from the manual crowd and it�s mostly in good fun. Very few of us here push these cars to the ridiculous limits that Porsche designed and the tip suits 99.9 percent of all drivers that simply enjoy driving. also my wife can enjoy the car as well and I don�t have to sit there cringing when she misses a shift!

I based myself on these figures 0-62 (Coupe) 4.2/4.8s (Manual/Tip) 0-62 (Cabrio) 4.3/4.9s (Manual/Tip) Of course it is not all about these take-off times. And not to forget that to hit those times in a manual your clutch engaging needs to be perfect. With the tip your wife can even do it! But you cannot deny that 0.6 secs is a whole lot!

Quotes source post: 14982239

I don't know where those numbers come from but they are not accurate. Either way it really doesn't matter, all the 996s are fast enough. I've never been street driving in my car at 4,000 rpm and thought to myself, this car is so slow! Even if a car is 1 full second faster or slower than something else, in daily driving it makes little to no difference. A professional driver in a 175 HP Miata will lap an average driver in a 911 turbo at the track again and again.

They are from Porsche itself ... Their 996TT bochure So far the fake news! Of course they are not accurate ... Porsche itself is always conservative on their performance specs. Besides the question what the absolute speed/acceleration is, the relative difference is not neglectible. In fact 0.6sec is a huge difference in these 'near 4 sec' category of cars. But hey for most of us it is more than fast enough I agree. But just accept that the more than 100lbs in additional transmission weight, form which most of it needs to spinned around, adds a lot of inertia to the drivetrain. In real world it will not matter that much. My point was that with 5.0sec a manual NA 996 coupe is not that far off compared to a 996TT tiptronic; not so surprisingly when you start taking into account the extra weight for the transmission and the 4wd system. Off course the 996TT is still a much faster car. But the tiptronic has absolutely effect on its driving characteristics.

I hope for a PDK 911 in the future, but the Tiptronic is really very good. It doesn't know when curves or hills are coming up, so switching to manual on occasion is needed for a nice sports car experience. But then as boulevards with traffic signals, and traffic, and freeways are coming up, just slap it into auto mode. I for one very much appreciate avoiding manual shifting in driving conditions when the Tiptronic does just as well, which is most of the time. With the Tip you get the best of both worlds. It takes some practice, I was so familiar with "auto pilot / subconscious" shifting with a stick after becoming familiar with the car. My brain really doesn't like the toggle switches on the steering wheel, they can be kinda awkward if you ask me. I wish they had built manual mode switching into the Tiptronic stick like Porsche did on other cars, because that would be a more natural method of manual gear selection. The only "flaw" I've found is in manually downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, it doesn't do a very good job matching the engine speed (higher RPMs) for the new 2nd gear, so you have to blip the throttle a bit to get smooth downshift.

That .5 number is subjective to perfect shifting.

@911Syncro: exactly my opinion too. Well worded. If you install the paddle shifters it makes shifting much more natural compared to the buttons. A really nice mod worth to try.

Most people prefer the 6sp manual as they are more of the "desirable" cars but I have no problem with the tiptronics. Can someone tell what year did the tiiptronics S came out and what made them better than the old tiptronics?

The "S" designation has no significance in determining which transmission it is. My 2000 Tip has "Tiptronic S" listed on the sticker even though it has the ZF trans as opposed to the later Mercedes trans. I'd have to check through some old posts but I believe it indicated that the shifters were on the steering wheel. Edit: Check out post #8 here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ptronic-s.html Now that I no longer have a daily commute, I think I would enjoy a 6 speed.

Quotes source post: 14984056

Thank you for the clarification, I was hoping the S meant there was an improvement.

Yes Tiptronic S is buttons on steering wheel 996 mk1 : ZF transmission, TCU with 5 shift mappings. 996 mk2: 722.6 Mercedes Benz transmission. TCU with 250 mappings the ZF is considered as more mechanically fragile. ZF advises regular ATF change then in service manual. Benz is consodered bullet proof mechanically, also here fluid an filter change better to do a bit earlier then service schedule. basically I would recommend to do a fluid filter change every 50k miles for example. Be aware that when changing the ATF you only refresh half of the volume. The ATF in the torque converter stays in. Unless you do a powerflush.

I hope I'm not offending Tip owners, but my own experience is that Tip takes a lot of fun and performance out of the car, at least on a mk1 non-Turbo. I bought a 2001 Carrera 4 Tip for my wife back when they were new. Although my wife loved that car, I never really enjoyed driving it. It was pretty fast, but not especially fast and it always felt like driving a "regular car" (like a Honda or something) to me. I spent more than a decade not thinking fondly of the 996 from a driving perspective (even though our 2001 was a great car otherwise and I didn't even know what IMS was back then in period ). Fast forward 12 or 13 years, with my wife always talking about her old 996, I decided to buy her another one. I wasn't excited about it personally, but started looking because she loved that car. When I finally found the perfect car, it happened to be a 6-speed 2wd 996 (2000 MY). When I went to test drive it, I could not believe how great the car was. I didn't want to get out of it. To me, the mk1 2wd 6-speed coupe feels a lot like the late 60's/early 70's 911's in being a super light sports car that you can toss around. At 2900 lbs, they aren't actually as light as the 60's/70's 911's, but with double the horsepower and power steering, they feel just as light. The 996's are actually lighter than the 993's and 964 models that came before it, and much lighter than the 997's. I think the Tip and 4wd conspired to make our old 996 not fun for me personally. The tiptronic, 4wd, and cabriolet options add somewhere around 120-150 lbs each (I forget the exact numbers), so a Tip/4wd/Cab weighs about 400 lbs more than a 6-speed/2wd/Coupe and they drive very differently. In addition to the weight, our mk1 Tip transmission never felt like a sporting transmission at all and it really took the fun out of it. It never felt that fun in handling either, I suspect some of that was due to 4wd in addition to the weight, but our current 2wd/6-speed feels much more tossable and fun to drive. In fact, out of 30+ cars owned, and many more driven, I put the driving experience of the 2wd/6sp/coupe 996 at or near the top of the list in terms of being a light sports car with just enough creature comforts to be super comfortable in addition to being fun. All of the above being said, the Turbo has enough power that it may make the Tip far less intrusive than it was on our naturally aspirated car. For certain, the best thing to do is to drive both a Turbo 6-speed and Tip and then decide which is for you.

I have a 00� C2 tip. I think it�s a pretty impressive transmission for old tech. Shifts pretty fast and smoothly. More drivetrain loss so it�s a bit slower but the car still feels raw and it�s still fun to drive.

@peterp - If you drove yours mostly in automatic mode, then I agree. I find it shifts way to soon in normal driving. Having said that, I really enjoy driving it manual mode,stretching out the shifts and getting the RPMs up. I drove manual transmission cars most of my life (I'm old) and never got a thrill from it. Of course none of those cars were 911s.

Being professionally photographed. I have a 2002 996 Cab with a tip that I plan to list on BAT in about 2 weeks, once we get back from one lap. I specifically wanted a tip because I wanted a car I could enjoy and drive all the time. I have other cars with manual transmissions and have never felt shirt changed with the tip. Only selling because I have 2 other Porsche�s (and one of those is also a tip).

Shirt =short :-)

In auto mode the tip is programmed to maximize fuel economy. So it starts in second gear and upshifts sooner (lower rpm). So it does feel sluggish. Put it in manual mode, or get on the gas and it's a different car. Get a gen 2 996 and there are many more mappings that will make the car more responsive.

That is why one should do the paddle shifter mod. You will start to drive it more in �manual� which gives you the most sportive mapping for shifts, the TCU will make the shifts as short as possible, and the most direct throttle response. You will be more connected to the car and driving at the occasions you want to have it. Another option is is also to install a sprint booster to further amplify the throttle response. There is also a possibility to reprogram the TCU itself. Which makes also for a faster and more crisp shifting. As the gearbox is standardly programmed for as smooth as possible transitions. That is the whole point. Porsche offers the Tiptronic for people who can be classified as �cruisers�. The ones with the stick are the real man/woman! As Walter Rohrl used to say �Schwuchtelschaltung�

Quotes source post: 14986261

I think you are right. I did drive it mostly in auto, which was brilliant in stop and go NJ/NY traffic. I did occasionally use the thumb shifters to shift it manually, and it was definitely more sporting in that mode, but manually shifting autos wasn't really much of a "thing" back in the early 2000's, so it seemed like a workaround to me and I really didn't use manual mode with any regularity. Of course today, we've grown used to paddles and manually shifting automatics, so I suspect I would just naturally drive it differently if I still had it now because my habits and expectations have changed. We replaced that first Tip 996 with a Maserati Coupe with F1 shifters, which we liked a lot (in most ways). The Maserati F1, we were warned when we bought it, burns out the clutch in something like 8K miles if you use "Auto" mode because it feathers the clutch on every shift for smoothness, so we drove it in manual and sport mode all the time. Although I still prefer a manual transmission in any car, with the F1, I learned what I really like about manuals is the immediate control you have over the exact gear at any time -- that immediate control is almost more important (to me at least) than whether the shifting is truly manual or an F1 type. That's why I think I would drive the 996 Tip differently today. The Maserati was great but quirky. It was super fast, but the handling was like "it controlled you" when you pushed it. In every way, we are downright giddy to have a 996 again. I was a little afraid to bring the 6-speed 996 back home after I bought it since it's my wife's car and she hadn't driven a manual in decades. She was a little shocked when she noticed it was a manual, but she drove a TR-6 when I first met her, and she took off on the first drive like she had been driving a manual every day. She would still rather have a Tip, however, just on logistics (mainly involving shoes ).

Quotes source post: 14986742

Or put a F6I Stage II Track Performer engine in it and you'll no longer be a "cruiser" BTW, doesn't Walter now drive a PDK?

Back to the future ... My Wife's Old 2001 Carrera 4 Tip (Photo circa 2003): Her "new" (15 or so years later!) 2000 2wd 6-speed:

Ok, we need a transmission buyers guide. Provide answers to these questions, and then the choice will be revealed. Rate each one from 1-10 according to how important each is to you. The feel of total control. Replace clutch once in a while Stick / clutch is simpler, so they have a lower failure rate. Enjoy shifting in stop and go traffic Wish to share your 996 with others who can't drive a stick. Prefer the lightweight early 996 / stick sports car feel. I can't control my left leg. Am afraid of missing shifts My car is a poser for cruising the beach / boulevard Daily driver / commuting. Have some doubts about my manhood, so I better get a stick. I believe in the future.

Or stick it ...

PDK it's good enough for them:

Driving a manual stick does not make you more of a man. It's when you drive a convertible that makes you look like a girlie.

Quotes source post: 14987750

True, however Tiptronic ≠ PDK. If you have the money for 2009+, then hell yeah.

Silk, is this the paddle shifter you are using? I think I'll add this to my car this summer. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-write-up.html

Quotes source post: 14989413

Will this work on the 997?

Tip vs manual is really a personal preference. The Tip is not the same as PDK. They are two different animals (one having a torque converter, the other dual clutches). My only experience with Tip is our Cayenne and I wouldn't want one in a 911 based on that experience. My preference is a more direct feel between engine and rear wheels, particularly in a sports car, and the Cayenne feels mushy compared to a clutch.

The driving dynamics are different enough that you probably didn't need to ask this question to figure out what you want. The last car I had before I bought the 911 was a Mustang GT convertible with an automatic. It was a nice cruiser with a decent amount of torque that made it fun. Cruising with the top down when the weather was nice was really enjoyable. I don't see ever getting rid of my 99 manual coupe. It is such an analog ride. However, I can see myself adding a Tip Cab or a PDK Cab as a daily driver in the future. I need to get out of Atlanta first. I am working down there now and driving something nice would make me paranoid. You have 10% of the driver's who are oblivious or don't know where they are going combind with 90% being very agressive. I drove the 996 down there twice and I don't see doing that much in the future.

Quotes source post: 14990580

Yes fit the link of the DIY and yes iT works on the 997

I think that Porsche's PDK actually shares many parts with their manual transmissions. I don't know the specifics with Porsche, but I know that Maserati F1 and manual cars essentially used the same transmissions and clutches. The only significant difference was that the F1 had automated actuators operating the shifter and clutch. I've never driven a PDK, but if it's anything like the Maser, it's probably much more like driving a manual (in driving feel) than it is like driving an automatic. The paddle shifter kit looks super cool. I would do that in a heartbeat if I still had the Tip.

Ive driven tip, tip S and PDK. Tip S was a big improvement over the original Tip. Gen 2 Tip S (MBZ) has many more shift patterns so its an improvement over gen 1 Tip S. PDK is just like driving a manual, just no clutch pedal to push making gear changes instantaneous. And with 7 gears, you are always able to find the perfect one, or the transmission is able to. Seems to know what gear you want to be in before you do.

Quotes source post: 14991105

Which year and model did the gen 2 Tip S (MBZ) came out? Also, isn't the driving experience with the Tip same thing as the PDK except Tip shifts slower?

7 vs 5 gears so closer ratios difference combined with faster shifting is very noticible. 2002 is gen 2.

I have an 02 Tip Cab and have zero regrets. It's an absolute blast to drive, especially in manual mode. My DD is an Audi S4 with a 6speed manual, and I love it. There is something about the 996 Tip that i just really appreciate. Watching that tach sweep and timing a shift is still very satisfying, but also different. Also, my wife would never drive it if it was a manual, and she has completely fallen in love with the car, which makes it all the better. I just drove a 2014 911 with PDK... It's an amazing car, no doubt and night and day in many regards... But i like the way the Tip operates simply over the PDK. Long story short, it's not a manual, but is manual enough when i want it to be that I have zero regrets. Good luck!

Before I bought my 996 I heard the typical "zomg save ze manualzzz..." hype, similar to that of the 'issues' with the IMS. The Tip is plenty of fun, especially if you use your car as more than just a 'toy' and have to deal with traffic (I do). My C4S is my semi-DD, and in 'auto' mode it can be a little hurky-jerky but it really does adapt to how you drive, so if you drive it like a Buick, it's going to drive like one. Drive it like a 911 and it will drop down to 1st Gear when you stop at a sign/light, and skip gears up/down down get you max RPM and maximize your fun. And that's just in 'auto' mode. Throw it in 'manual', and as others have said it's a different car and you can leave it/place it exactly where you want in the rev band and have a blast. I have zero regrets and am looking forward to PDK in my 997.2 when I get one. I get the appeal of manual but as much as I use my car and in Houston-area traffic, this just makes way more sense. You won't be disappointed by the Tip.

I'm still in search of my dream 911 and preferably I want a 6sp manual. I could live with driving a Tip since I get bad traffic where I live. I notice though that the resale value on these Tip are not as great as the more desirable 6sp manual. If you plan on selling your car after a few years, don't expect to get a lot of your money back with a Tip. I'm basing this purely on my experience searching in the market daily.

Quotes source post: 14993341

Assuming you are correct, purchasing a 911 with a tiptronic transmission would cost less up front, so any decrease in resale value has already been accounted for in the decreased purchase price, right? I agree the tips on avg. may sell for less and for a larger % of the Porsche 911 market are less desirable. I just analyzed 200 Porsche 996s for sale on AutoTrader (61 tips / 139 manuals) - Years 2002 - 2004 . All priced under $40,000. Average price of Tip - $26,405 Average price of Manual - $27,843 So there does seem to be a difference of about 5%.

I can only speak to the 2002 - 2004 second generation tiptronic transmission which in my opinion is fantastic and operates flawlessly. I would not go back to a manual by choice. I learned to drive on a manual trans. My first car was manual. I have owned at least 5 manual transmission vehicles. I was always a "sports cars must be manual or it's not a sports car" guy. Which was in fact true before there were shiftable automatics. Knee pain forced me to sell my manual 911 and purchase an auto next time around. I would not go back with two good knees. Why? In my experience the classic manual offers one and exactly one advantage, the ability to physically shift gears using a clutch pedal and a stick. The physical act of depressing a clutch pedal and pushing or pulling a stick up and down provides no operational advantage over a tip, but it is the classic experience and what some drivers love to do. And that's totally understandable. It's what I did for 20 years. The original reason manuals transmission were clearly superior to traditional automatics was the ability to control which gear you were in and for how long or short. The driver had total control over the gearing. Modern shiftable automatic transmissions now allow for that. The modern Tiptronic transmission is truly the best of both worlds. Cruise along effortlessly in stop and go traffic or instantly take control in manual mode.

The one thing missing with the Tip is some type of switch to move the controller into a higher shift map. Sure it's great that it does this automatically based on actual driving, but I wish it could be selected manually. I believe (not sure) that later 911s have a **** that allows the driver to select "sport mode", certainly other cars have that, but it is missing from the 996.

You could install a Sprintbooster. It basically tweaks/amplifies the e-gas output. Which makes with the same foot movement you will go more on the throttle which makes the tip computer to shift and stay in a more sportive map. What you are asking for is a more crisp throttle response and the faster shifts which the tip computer associates with it. The sprint booster will give you that. Or otherwise put it into manual mode and use the buttons. The throttle response will be at its max.

Couldn't you also add this Sprintbooster on a 6sp manual?

Yes

Somebody needs to build a kit to convert 6 speed 996 to a PDK. I would be first in line

Quotes source post: 14996024

Porsche did, it's called the 997.2

I've got a 996.1 tip and find the auto-manual to be engaging enough. It'll never be a manual in spirit but does the job on back roads and even highway. Plus, I'm in traffic a lot and dont want to deal with a manual. That said, leaving it in regular auto is hard for me to stomach, tranny always wants to shift to highest gear and I find myself in 4th gear at 30mph. It's somewhat annoying. Maybe the gen 2 tranny is different.

Quotes source post: 15003161

The above is exactly what I experienced and what drove me nuts with our old (also gen 1) Tip. I couldn't understand why they gave it the fancy "Tiptronic" name when it was so boring and so totally unsporting in auto mode. It actually felt less sporting to me than other automatics that didn't have a fancy name. If they just had a "sport" mode you could switch into, so it would start in first and shift at higher RPM levels, I would have liked it a hundred times more. Are there any tuners that can change the shift mapping? That seems like it would be the hot ticket.