Do You Agree With the Dealer?

After taking delivery of my ‘02, I brought it in to the dealer for a once-over to establish a baseline for the car should I need to build a list of ‘to do’s’. Only item they found was an oil filer tube that was cracked, seemingly a usual occurrence with these engines. But I had a few questions for the dealer, and I’m curious if the community agrees: 1) shifts into 2nd gear do not always go, especially when cold from start-up. It feels as though you have engaged the gear, but I get a gear grind when I engage the clutch. The dealer says that this is entirely normal, and the shift cables do not need to be adjusted. When the car warms, a decisive move into 2nd gear yields engagement, but you need to be decisive and not just slip it into gear. What say you? 2) Acceleration in the car seems ‘notchy’ (for lack of a better word..), and seems to ratchet-up as you accelerate...unless, of course, if you give it a good dose of throttle, at which points it responds with great performance. Dealer says that this is an early version of Various-Cam and is just the cams being moved about as rpm’s increase; more moderate acceleration allows you to feel it. What say you? 3) Oil change takes more time as you need to continually monitor the gauge reading, resulting in a $250 oil/filter change. There’s a dip stick in the car...is that not a more accurate reading of the oil level? thanks! Bob

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1: Unfortunately, mine does that too. I swap out the motor mount and seem to help a little bit, I will be replacing the trans mount or add a F1 insert this fall to see if it improves. I do agree adjusting cable does not help as I installed 997 shifter and has it adjusted and it is exactly the same. 2. 02 3.6 L has vario cam plus which is the 2nd generation. For lack of better word, it seem more responsive after 3k rpm for me. Try turn your key to ACC but not start the car and don't touch paddles for 60 seconds. It recalibrate the accelerator paddle. See if that works for you. 3. This is the easiest car to do oil change on my own than any car I have owned. It only took me longer time because I try to check out the filter when I change my oil.

GC: #1: Disagree. I've read that this can be a problem that can sometimes be addressed w/o to much pain. Do a search here fro more technical advice. #2: Could be the Variocam working. Mine comes in just north of 3,000rpm. Feels like a couple of extra cylinders kick in...Fun! #3: B.S. Very easy DIY. Just did mine Sunday and I'm an old guy! Drain, change filter, refill to amount suggested in owners manual, start, check for leaks, shut off. Wait for oil drain back which takes a long time...hours... to get accurate reading. Stick seems most reliable to me. It is recommended that an "accurate" oil level reading should not be taken until car has sat overnight and on a level surface.

Overall, I think your dealer either shows a lack of knowledge about these cars, or wants you to feel good about the purchase so you'll buy more cars from them. I am relatively new to these cars, but my take on his opinion: 1) Wrong. I have not had an issue, but 2nd gear synchros are an issue on these cars. Others can weigh in on whether this issue will get worse. Adjusting the cable may help, and is worth a shot, but it may not help. 2) I can feel the VVT "boost" around 3K RPM, but it is not extremely noticeable. Its not negative either, for lack of a better word, though. If you think the car is hesitating, then I would not say this is a "normal" VVT issue. 3) Oil changes on this car take a long time because there's a lot of oil in the pan. I wait 30 or 40 minutes for it to drain, and there's a little oil still in the pan. That seems to be ok though, since the refill volume (9.3 QTS) seems to be less than the overall pan volume (as high as 10 QTS, estimated). Not sure why the tech would be monitoring the gauge. Sounds like a justification for an unreasonably high charge for an oil change. I think you should find an indy you trust. Other Rennlisters may be able to help with some names in Williamsburg.

Did they replace the oil filler tube? 1) Always hard to shift into second. It takes practice and a hard shift when the transmission is cold. 2) As suggested do an e-gas calibration, turn key to run (but don't start), wait 60 seconds, turn key to off and remove key. You should hear some whirring sounds from the engine bay. 3) $250 for an oil change? My goodness. DIY Anyway, the cluster oil level gauge is mostly there as a guide - such as is there any oil in there or not? You will find it ranges depending on first morning check, after fuel fill up, after a hard run and shutdown...and so on. Always depend on the dipstick for an accurate reading.

I’ll do the oil fill tube myself. Dealer wanted $500 to do it. Yikes! I do not suspect synchros in the car as once it does warm, shifts are positive. I did pick-up the fixture to adjust the shifter positioning. The car has 50,000 miles on it, so I’ll check for adjustment. I’ll give the e-gas set-up a try. On my Ford Explorer Sport, I have a RoushYates interface unit on the throttle that allows you to change the rate of throttle tip-in. The seat of the pants effect is very noticeable. And, yes, I’ll be doing maintenanace myself. First project is refinishing the center console sticky paint. I’ll post photos when done. Second is to remove, rebuild and refinish the calipers that were painted while on the car with not only the calipers being painted. Ugh.... Thanks for the comments!

It costs me about $100 to do the oil/filter change myself. The dealer here charges $350. Like others have said, it is a very easy DIY. Install the LN Spin-on filter adapter and magnetic drain plug. The cracked oil filter tube needs to be addressed if it hasn't been already. It will cause problems.

#1 -- I haven't experienced that, but whatever fluid was in my gearbox before definitely felt better than the synthetic off-the-parts-store-shelf stuff I put back in. Cables absolutely need to be looked at / adjusted. One of mine wasn't even connected to the bracket on the transmission. Fixed that with some zip-ties. #2 -- As a newer owner myself, I have also observed this. If I accelerate modestly, keeping the pedal in the same position, I definitely get a noticeable surge ~3200 rpms. I.e. the torque delivery is not flat for a given throttle position, unless the pedal is flat. #3 -- oil change sounds like 1hr of flat rate labor plus materials. Not out of the question for a Porsche dealership.

2-nd gear pop out... very common issue. Look it up... but the part be done with it. That filler tube is a bitch,,, took me hours to do it... now that I know how... maybe under 2 all done and said. Oil change is TOOOOOOOOOOOO easy...! Drain oil... Finger the sump... put plug back in. Remove filter element... inspect filter... replace filter element. Fill oil to proper level and go. (Or get the spin on adapter and a filter cutter)

1. as mentioned the 2nd gear syncro is a common problem with the g96 gear box.Change the fluid to Swepco 201,It will shift slicker when cold. Install the 2nd gear pop out fix, will help stop grinding and prolong the replacement of the syncro. If the grinding continues or gets worse will need 2nd gear syncro replaced. 2. Fix the cracked oil tube. An air leak can cause air/fuel mixture adaptions to be all over the place. 3. Oil changes are easy. It does take longer than most cars simply due to drain time. Factory recommends 20 min minimum on warm oil, cold oil will take longer.

I don't see anything here to be critical of the dealer about. Yes, the trans can be notchy/stiff when cold. Mine is OK in 2nd gear but not in 3rd. A trans oil change with the right lube might help yours. There is a pronounced power and sound change at around 3200 in my car - Variocam at work. And to get the oil level spot on, I don't see how you could do it without letting the car sit overnight. If you drain it hot, yes you might be able to just put a specified amount in and get lucky, but otherwise it takes some trial and error and time is money at the dealership.

For Sale: 1 gallon Swepco 201 $30 only used for 10 miles.

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Thanks for the heads-up on the pop-out fix! Just ordered the piece. Seems everyone with a 996/997 needs to install this bit. Already ordered the oil fill tube and awaiting delivery. I'd heard that it does have an effect on A/F. Seems like a pretty under-engineered part given the failure rate. Bob

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Not critical of the dealer whatsoever. Good folks. Their understanding of the car and the issues are excellent, but I wanted to see if they were consistent with the 996 community here. Porsche would never install an IMS Solution or upgrade; they must install factory parts. Same goes for the 2nd gear issue; there's nothing wrong...that is the way they all are. However, as we just witnessed here, there is an aftermarket solution for the 2nd gear pop-out and had I just accepted the dealer's explanation, I never would have learned of the aftermarket fix. This forum is indispensable is you own a 996.

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Define: Old Guy?

As for oils changes, I've posted this elsewhere but here goes again: For those who use Mobil 1, a 5 quart container costs $24.25 including tax @ Walmart, buy 2 for $48.50. You now have 10 quarts. Mobile twice a year has a rebate for $12 off each 5 quart container. So that's $48.50 - $24.00 = $24.50 for the ten quarts. $24.50 / 10 = $2.45 per quart after rebate. You'll use 9 quarts for an oil change, $2.45 x 9 = $22.05, this is your cost of oil. I get my spin on filters @ NAPA for ~$7.50 (w/ 10% discount) plus a new crush washer $0.25. So my oil change costs me $22.05 + $7.50 + .025 = $29.80. I change the oil every 6 months which doubles that to $59.60 per year. Dogs gotta go out, I'll post the website for the oil rebate when I get back.

https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mobil-promotions This is the URL for the Mobil rebate. Current offer runs thru May 31st. They limit 2 per household so I use family addresses if I want more than 2. They also run a Fall promotion. Buy the oil, snap a picture of your receipt, submit via the URL above. They have 2 options for receiving your rebate, a physical check sent to your address in 6 to 8 weeks, or an e-check sent by email which speeds up the process. http://mobil.rebateresearch.com/ This is where you can check the status of your rebate.

A Porsche dealer in Northern Virginia charges $500+ for oil change on a GT3, and typical independent will charge ~$250.

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Just to be clear, you ordered the Gbox upgraded detent? I hadn't heard about this fix before so just asking. And where did you buy it?

Went over here, Jim, and ordered it. There are install instructions on their site and it appears to be surprisingly easy. Not cheap, mind you, but far less expensive than a gearbox rebuild. http://www.gboxweb.com/detent.html Bob

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Will wait for expert to chime in as I am not one. I have not seen any bad feedback on most forum here in US but one transmission shop in UK ( http://www.sportsandclassic.com/ ) seem to warn people on Pistonhead that they are seeing other gear gets damaged from this detent. Just providing information as I am not affiliated with any shop or anyone. Of course just want to also mention a lot of people have good feedback on most other forums. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=883656&mid=58031&i=40&nmt=996+Gbox+detent+upgrade&m id=58031

1) find it harder to shift into 2nd when cold, don't have any issues once warm, also not encountering pop out (so far)

File this one under: "IT'S TRUE. I READ IT ON THE INTERNET!" I just spent some time on the phone (it's amazing how well that old technology works in providing excellent communications) at GBox in Colorado. GBox is the developer/manufacturer of the 996 Shift Detent. According to Stan, they have sold close to 1,000 of these devices and can count on one hand the number of customer issues that have arisen. 'Sports and Classics' in the the PistonHeads forum is a gearbox rebuilder and would like nothing more than to rebuild your 996 gearbox and utilize modified parts in the process to effect a 2nd gear kick-out issue. GBox's Shift Detent will provide the solution at a massively lower cost and it is a fix that the average DIY'er can perform. There is no truth to the 'over-reaching' 3rd and 4th gear issue that was raised. According to Stan, Porsche/Getrag got the tolerances every so slightly wrong and the detent compensates for that miscue. When the gearbox warms, the tolerances slightly adjust and the synchros are able to pull the gear into position. Eventually, they will not. Stan also suggested that flushing the gearbox with ATF before putting the correct gear lube (Shell or Mobil PTX) back in will absolutely change how well the gearbox works. To flush the gearbox, fill it with ATF, run the car in place (don't drive it!) for 20 minutes, drain it, and refill with the correct lube. Here's the PTX at Suncoast Porsche: https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/00004320420L.html I will go through this process when the Detent arrives and report back-in to the group. Bob

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How about 67!?

A transmission fluid change can help the shifting, that could be worth a try. As for the Variocam, mine clicks in at about 3200 and changes the sound and performance quite a bit. Best way for oil and filter is to measure the amount of oil you take out, and put the exact same back in. Works like a charm with electronic dip sticks.

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Spring chicken!! That's not old!!

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As I said, I am not an expert and will let others to chime in. I also said there is no negative feedback that I hear from US side and other forums. Try to be very neutral but want to bring it to people's attention when something is recommended. Let people make their own decision. Personally I would rather have people who have installed it to share their opinion and find out how many miles they have on it and not just read it on the internet.

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Yes. I guess I understand why shops charge 10 times this much, but I really don't see why owners would indulge them. There's also the "hidden" cost of the time it takes to drop off the car and then collect it when work is done (which nearly always well exceeds the DIY time). The P996 oil change is about as easy as on any car anywhere; doing it encourages you to look at other things that are worth paying attention to, and thus keeps you in better touch with your machine. So, good for your wallet, your car and your soul.

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Uh, "common problem" does not = "normal behavior"... No, second gear should not grind when being engaged, and no they don't "all do that"... I can say unequivocally, mine doesn't...If you've got a stock shifter, this contributes to the "lack of positive engagement feeling"... The dealer just wants you to stop bothering them. I'm not sure why so many here would try to explain away something that's clearly "wrong"...Not uncommon, but not operating properly...

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^^^ Couldn't agree more with the above. Only time mine grinds is when I didn't shift it properly, which I try to avoid. Otherwise it is smooth and silent..with a stock shifter.

I need a much deeper data set to understand "normal". My 2000 and 2002 shift completely differently. IMHO, grinding should never be "normal" on a synchronized transmission in good condition.

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I read once on the interweb that 996.1 require a quarterly oil change. I am surprised that you dont follow the recommended Joe GIbs oil change intervals.

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Agreed...shouldn't grind. My 996.2 doesn't like the Lucas 75w90 stuff I just added. It's a little balkier, but certainly doesn't grind or pop out. When was the last time the clutch slave was bled?

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Just want to put some number up for perspective. 175000 996 were sold. Of course I don't know how many were Tip and how many were 6MT. That's a lot of cars and 14-20 year old at this point.

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Just passing along cost savings for the DIY'er ya dip ****t.