Got the upgrade itch...but

Went to my first DE this weekend with my 1999 Carerra lowered with H&R Coilovers running Pirelli P-Zeros. Found the suspension too soft for my liking so I am considering replacing the H&Rs with something else. But before I do that I was wondering how much a set of used H&R coilovers could be sold for so as to set my budget of where I go next. Also I sat in a car with PSE and oh man it sounded so nice. Time for exhaust mods too. Damm, this weekend is going to cost me too much money!

Do you have a sport suspension, ie sway bars/aka 030? There is probably alot of room in your current setup. yes exhaust should be next. Check out fabspeed, GHL as pse are going to cost you at least 1500, the formentioned mufflers cost a fraction of that and add a little power as well.

I currently have the H&R Coilover setup which I find too soft for the track. I have GT3 swaybars too but I haven't installed them yet. Current sway bars are just the stock units. Is the M030 package include a different sway bar too? I was thinking about the GHL prior and after this weekend I am almost ready to buy.

I believe that the 030 and gt3 sways are similar, but way better than stock. Def get the GHL's, you won't regret it.

Depending on how frequently you are going to track, you can go with the ROW M030 suspension or PSS9 which still have decent daily driving character. I believe the X74 is only for '02 and up. Lots of threads on those options and you can get excellent feedback by doing a search. Don't know about the price for your used H&R's. I have listened to all the exhausts personally - GHL, BB, Fabspeed, PSE - and I chose PSE. All sound better than stock, and HP improvement claims are nothing more than hype and hot air. I've looked at their dyno runs, and not a single dyno run was done with just a muffler replacement. Even with airbox, chip and muffler exchange, the only thing they achieved was a slight HP increase on the top end with a more significant loss in the mid range where you need it more for tracking in road courses. So, just go for sound. Listen to all of them if you can, then decide for yourself. Best place to hear them would be any Porsche club gathering or DE. Again, lots of threads here on the subject, with lots of opinions. Best to hear all the exhausts, and make your own opinion and choice. BTW, welcome to the slippery slope of car mods . I started my slide after a season of track. I started by looking at mods for the C4S, and ended up adding a whole new Porsche intead .

Hey C4S Surgeon, GT3 bars are entirely different than stock, X-74 or 030 by virtue of their size and adjustability.

It's a slippery slope indeed. I spent $8K in mods in the first six months...

$8k is only about 8% to 9% of the overall cost of ownership for these cars, not too bad

Purchase price was $42.5k...

Well, think of how much you saved over the price of a new car then

Point taken...

Ouch!!

Okay so I am thinking of the Moton Club Sports as a potential new coilover setup. Where is the best price and how much will I expect to pay? A friend mentioned JIC, any opinions about them?

If you're in Canada, I can help you get Motons for a very good price but with the current exchange rate, if you're in the U.S, you're probably best sourcing them there. Let me know. Hey Fasteddie99, I meant no harm by my joke, I hope you weren't offended.

Alon, I am in Canada. I received a quote for around $4500CDN. Is that good?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Motons a strictly track set? Don't they make the car so stiff it is no longer streetable?

Actually Motons don't come with springs. Just the dampers. You can combine them with different spring rates which will deterime what they are like on the street. Unless you have a fair understanding of how to set up a car and a lot of track time where you can test them for a couple of laps, adjust, test, adjust, I would be a little hesitant to go with a dual adjustable. Just my $.02 worth. Jim

The Moton Clubsport setup is designed for aggressive street/track and use remote resevoirs. The Canadian price of $4500 is a very good one (for a C2) but keep in mind that is without springs.

Arnold, Alon will take care of you, good guy with some connections........and he is not even Italian!

Thanks Paul. You're too funny but seriously, that price for the Moton setup is very aggressive. By the time that springs and installation/setup/alignment are added, that will be one very expensive setup.

Yeah, it is going to get very expensive. Got me rethinking on how I want to proceed with suspension.

Hi Alon, On the subject of mods, do you have any problems with ground clearance in and around T.O. with your H&R/Bilstein combo (and would you predict any if I added an aerokit to the mix)?

I have had a 1999 996 with Aero package that was lower than my current car. No real problems so far, just take it easy going up and down driveways (on an angle of course). My current car is fairly low by most peoples' standards and it's fine. Yeah, the roads are crap as far as potholes go but that's about it.

Here is a failry recent picture with winter wheels and tires on. Note that it does have the turbo front bumper which does hang down lower than the standard snout:

Alon, nice looking car! Anyone have any experience with the KW Coilover Variant 3s? My friend told me about them as a possible option. Also they have an office locally so I might check them out depending on what I hear.

kw is well respected in Europe - although i have 0% personal knowledge with them. The Blistien PSS-9 setup is a good setup and the spring rates are stiffer than stock but still biased towords the street. On the Moton's you will need springs, spring plates and some other bits to get the msot of out of the setup - figure 2-3 days at the track with someone who knows those shocks to get them dialed in. or another way to think about it...They are 3x more costly than Pss-9's, H&R, or KW BUT 2x less costly than the 3way Moton or JRZ racing shocks (or about 15K when your done)

I'm still a big fan of the H&Rs or PSS9s as opposed to the KW. I know that KWs have a good reputation in the Audi and VW scene but other than that, I have no idea.

AnnoM3: Coming from an S4, I was also very interested in the KW's. I spent the last two months trying to get some user experience within the Porsche community and its difficult to find. First, they only offer the Variant 3 for the 996. As with all V3's, they are three way adjustable, so height, compression and dampening are all independently adjustable. This means, they are not really comparable with PSS9's, JIC's or H&R. The biggest deal killer for me was that they cost $4,100, though you can find them for $3,855-$3,900 at horsepowerfreaks.com. All orders are done on a custom order basis, so they can take a little while. I really wanted to go that way, for one major reason, they are made of Stainless steel. This is important considering all the salt on the roads in the northeast. However, the excess cost and increased complexity of three way, scared me away. As for user experience, I do know that PES tuning uses them almost exclusively for their cars. The funny thing about the KW's was that while no one really had any experience with them on Porsche cars, they did chime in with the KW's are only for VW's bit followed by the blanket recommendation to go with PSS9's or stay with factory kit.... Like I said above, the one place that did use them a lot, PES, had nothing but good things to say. Granted, while its not exactly a non biased opinion, its better then no experience at all. Just by my take.