buying a 02 / 03 confused c2 c4 thoughts welcome

Ok 20 yr 911 owner , 82,87,90 (c4)81coupe 87 targa decided on an 02 / 03 I have completely confused myself an cant decide between a c2 or c4 or manual or tiptronic i would really like to hear owners views on plus / minus I live in detroit and plan using car all year (I think) I have owned targa nd coupe but so far not fixed on coupe targa or convertable please post your views and preferences thanks in advance Mike

The C4S is alot different that a C2. You get WAY lot more stuff for the money. Youre getting about $20K more options right off the bat. If you can use the 4wheel drive, then thats the only way to go. If you appreciate the wide body and all the other body differences then theres no question. If you enjoy shifting everywhere you go , then you ought to buy a manual. But if you enjoy a nice peaceful drive and like to relax occasionally, then buy a tip.

I think the comparison is C2 vs C4, not the C4S. The actual dollar difference is about 3-5K given that all options are more or less equal.

It's hard to give advice on coupe vs. targa vs. cab. They are very different cars. I think that's the first place to start. If you decide on a targa, there's no "4" available in the 996. I think you can get by in Michigan winters in a targa or C2, at least in light snow if you put proper dedicated snow tires on the vehicle. A C4 or C4S will probably be better in this application, but make no mistake, they need dedicated snow tires too. If you plan to track the car, then a coupe is probably the best way to go due to the structural rigidity. If you go for a coupe in the 2002 or 2003 model year, and you decide you want AWD, then you're talking about a C4S. There is no C4 coupe in the 2002 and 2003 years, only a C4S. Personally, I like this choice the best, but that's just my opinion. If you are not planning to track the car, a C4 cab with a hard top for the winter might be your best overall option. I think a tip or a manual are both good choices, it just depends on your personal preference. My recommendation: buy a C4S with a manual transmission. I love mine.

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Yes, you seem quite undecided. The first thing I would do is try to write down a prioritized list of what features are important to you. AWD? Tip/manual? Cab/coupe/Targa? Here is some food for thought: For snow, ice and poor weather, dedicated winter tires (not all seasons) make the biggest difference. C4 or C4S is slightly better than C2 in slippery conditions, but it's RWD biased viscous coupling means it's not exactly an SUV. For snow/ice, PSM makes a big difference, especially if you're not that confident dealing w/ understeer and oversteer. If you are thinking about C4S keep in mind that at this time nobody makes a winter tire in the same size as the stock summer rubber (widebody Turbo size wheels). You're going to have to change to a different wheel/tire size which is going to change the look of the car (or use spacers to get the track width looking right). The cabs are great, but slightly heavier. The C4 cab is heavier still. This might be important if you want track performance, otherwise it's about the same weight penalty as having your fat drinking buddy riding shotgun. The roof is well made and can handle rain and winters no problem. Cabs were made in C2 and C4 and C4S configurations. I've never really had to use my hardtop. Targas are nice, but hard to find because so few were made. Targas are only RWD.

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There is no problem finding the front tires in a dedicated winter tire at 225 40R18. The Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport is an N-Spec winter tire that is actually reasonably priced (relatively speaking). It's the rears that cause the problem. The Pirelli N-Spec option is a 265 35R18, which is smaller than the OEM summer tires at 295 30R18. Do the smaller tires fit on the 18x10 OEM rims, or do new rims need to be installed too?

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The narrow body C2 and C4 cab have 18X10 rear wheels. The C4S like the TT has 18X11 wheels in the rear which is too wide for 265/35R18 tires. For 265 winter rubber you would have to get 18X10 rear wheels which fits and works fine, but just looks a little off in the widebody wheel well (unless you use spacers). Going to a 17" wheel might offer more options, but I don't know. It's possible that somebody out there is making a wider winter tire which would fit a 11" wide wheel. I haven't looked recently.

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18X11... right... my mistake. I don't know if 17s would fit over the brakes. I'd like to put snows on my C4S OEM rims this winter, so I'll have to look.

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Here, let me help you with those decisions '02! C4! Manual! Convertible! See it here: 2002 C4 Cabriolet 5-speed

i have an 01 C4 and if i had to do it all over again, i might lean more towards a C2, mostly due to the lighter weight and slightly better performance. ideally it would be a C2 with LSD.

C2 is a lot more "thrilling " to drive in my opinion. If you need four wheel drive I would just get four sows.

Lots of stop and go traffic(bumper to bumper)= tiptronic. Winter driving in the snow or very cold temps=4 snows(C2) or C4 with snows.GL

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Right a lot more weight!!!!

The C4(S) is virtually useless with respect to R/awd. The VC will not "stiffen" up unless there is a period, an extended period, of rear wheelspin/slip vs the front. TC will NEVER allow that to happen. The only use I can think of is to run the car in a tight, TIGHT, turn for about 10 loops. The difference in Front vs rear rotation rate in a tight turn will result in the VC being stiffened up for the next 30 seconds or so. The new, newest, 911 models have the ECU controlled dual electromagnetic clutch pack used in the Ford Escape F/awd, a pretty significant improvement, that....!!

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What is the weight difference? 100lbs?

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I'm a sucker for the 4S b/c of the looks and a little extra HP. Tiptronic is ok. Manual isn't an option for me b/c of the traffic I drive in every day. If I could slap a PDK transmission on her, I'd be in heaven.

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I thought the 4S still had the standard 320 hp 3.6 engine? Or are you talking about a version with the X51 kit?

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You are correct. The 4S in the 996 had the same hp as the C2. As the owner of an 03 C4 manual cab., I have to say I have no complaints. I run 18s in the summer and 17s in the winter. The narrower, slightly taller 17" snows give a definite traction advantage. Think about how snowshoes work and you'll see why narrow tires are better in winter. Regarding the 4wd, wwest is talking out his a$$. The viscous coupling begins diverting power to the front almost immediately when the rear wheels begin to spin. I find that I can be as aggressive with the throttle as I like in heavy rain or snow. On numerous occasions I have tried to slide the rear around on deserted snow covered parking lots. You can feel the front pulling the car back into line. Plus, the C4 comes with PSM as standard equipment. Very surefooted in the slop. As others have said though, snow tires are a must. Indeed, you will only have trouble when the snow is more than 6" deep due to low ground clearance. The cab is great for a number of reasons. With heated seats and a wind deflector I use mine down to 45F or so without any trouble. The cab top is well insulated for all but the worst winter weather. The top is fully automatic, opens or closes at speeds up to 30mph and with the addition of the SmartTop module is a one touch open/close. If you've never owned a convertible it is truly a "Bucketlist" item. As for the tip vs. 6spd consideration, unless you deal with some real traffic on a daily basis, there's just no substitute for a manual in a 911.

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You sir are a very smart man Now if only there was a C4 cab with heated seats, a wind deflector and SmartTop which has been cared for by an avid Rennlister available for purchase somewhere . . .

Thanks everyone who has responded Today I tested 03 cab C2 maual ..very nice ithink I will be happy with a cab I drove the C$ cab felt much more solid noticed no difference in performance Plan to try tip next week then I will be looking seriously I want "ithink" seal grey cab short shift if I go manual and aero kit looking for 02 $30K budget low as poss miles 40-60 so if you know of one drop me a line .. Thanks everyone I will defiatly be trawling this site for more info Mike

I'm partial to the cab with the hardtop option if you can find one. Michigan winters would be pretty tough on the softtop material. Plus with all the construction on I75, 96, the Southfield and 696 and the stop-and-go traffic, the TIP seems a good choice. In Grand Rapids the stop-and-go is not as bad.

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Mike, take a look at Smackboy's car. It is exactly what you described.

where can i see a photo and price of your car ?? Mike

found it in classified i should look before typing !!!

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You got mail!

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With my '01 C4 turning off PSM does not disable PSM's TC and e/LSD aspects. So if even the slightest level of rear wheelspin is detected the rear brakes are applied and the engine instantly dethrottled. Thus no chance for the VC to come into play. Later C4, C4S, models, different, .....?? And yes, with PSM active the car cannot be "slung" about in the snow, even intentionally.

I love my '02 C4 cab as a 4 season car in Colorado. Tip makes daily driving in traffic very bearable for me, but that decision was made as my wife won't learn to drive a manual and life is about compromise at times. I run summer rubber on 18's and dedicated snow tires on 17" wheels for the winter - the C4 nannies kick in big time when it gets slippery, making it a very safe and controlled winter vehicle. But if you turn off the PSM it magically transforms into a rear-biased power slide king - I love it. My car didn't have the aero option but I added the OEM wing and a front splitter. The windscreen extends the top-down opportunities considerably during spring/summer/fall and the SmartTop simplifies use and makes the rear windows operational- just like the factory should have done it. My only complaint was the floaty front end at speed, so I switched to the ROW M030 (sport) suspension and it solved the problem w/o making the ride too harsh of a ride - it's the perfect setup for my needs and really improved the car's handling beyond expectations. Good luck shopping - it's a great time to be buying a P-car!

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+1 I had the same experience w/ the stock suspension. The M030 should be standard on the car.

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All the Mk II 3.6L engines have the same 320 hp. Curb weights are: C2 Coupe 2965 lbs C2 Targa 3119 C2 Cab 3141 lbs C4S Coupe 3240 lbs C4 Cab 3273 lbs C4S Cab 3394 lbs Tiptronic +121 lbs

Mike, I went through this decision recently, and ultimately chose a C4 cabriolet with manual transmission and hard top. I have had coupes, cabs and targas over the years, including a 996 C2 coupe and, like you, a 1987 targa, which was a great combination of open air, fun-to-drive, security and looks (very subjective, I know). For me, no 996 has the same road connection and fun factor as the older 911s; however, 996s are great cars in their own respects - faster, more comfortable, with smoother handling (and working a/c!). This is my first C4, and I have been impressed. I was concerned that the extra weight and all wheel drive would result in a more sluggish feel, but that has not been the case. Also, the car also feels a little more solidly planted than my 2000 C2. The hard top doesn't transform it into a coupe, and it is not as easy to handle as the old targa tops; however, it does make me feel safer when parking for a few days at the airport. I think you are on the right track.

I live in west MI and drive a Subaru and 330xi. I have a '99 C4 that I drove over the winter one year. The car was great in the snow w/ dedicated snow tires, mostly I worried about someone hitting me. It's hard to see your car dirty all of the time. If I was going to do it again I would get C2 because the C4 adds a level of maintenance and expense. I also suspect that the 2 wheel drive car is more pure to drive. At DE events I kick butt when the track is wet.

What does the C4 really add for maintenance and expense, other than changing the front diff lube once in a while?

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Perhaps if you are a DIY kind who has to discover the nuances here and there. But I doubt that any Porsche dealership charges different rates for a C4 vs. a C2 for basic maintenance and servicing, and I can't think of anything that required extra work just due to AWD over a 7 year period of C4 ownership. The commonly held view is that a C2 will perform better at a DE than a C4. But just like every other car, the C4 must be driven differently in order to exploit its advantages and accommodate its weaknesses. Once mastered, the C4 can be just as quick (on some tracks, quicker) than a C2. (I kick butt when the track is dry). But the same is not true when the track is wet. AWD has a distinct advantage and requires much less mastery to outperform a C2. You might say if you learn how to drive a C4 the way a C4 must be driven, you can kick butt wet or dry.

c4 was designed for stability, rather than the awd functionality. Besides the heavy steering, very few can tell the diff between the c2/c4 in the dry... but on loose dirt or slippery conditions... that is where the c4 shines. Walter Rohrl's weapon of choice for the road.