Have you guys seen the 996 prices on eBay?

Both my friend and I are looking to both buy our first Porsche and I'm trying to decide between the 996 and the 993. I've checked out blue book and edmunds prices to get an idea, but when I looked on ebay I noticed that there are a slew of 996's for sale and almost none are being sold. Most auctions finish 10 to 15k below the "buy it now" price and below the reserve price. I had suspected that the 996 prices would drop drastically when the 997 was introduced considering how Porsche has gone back to some of the styling of the 993 in response to outcry from 911 loyalists, but I didn't think that '99 996's with 60k miles would be selling in the high 20's. So really guys, my question is an age old one, (or at least 6 years old): which to buy, 993 or 996. I'm sure there is much discussion on this topic but considering the massive price drop in the 996, I think this sheds a new light on the arguement. I like the styling of both cars, I like the 296-300-320 hp of the 3.4s and the 3.6s of the 996, but I hear the air cooled 993 is much more reliable. Performance is comparable, but is the 996 a better choice for someone with no rear-engine experience? I also hear that the 993 has more tendency to want to drive backwards. Finally, from the creature comforts and convience standpoint, is the 996 a big jump over the 993? Thanks for your input and for putting up with a noobie.

I would suspect (and be shocked if I were wrong � since I never am ) that you will find that all those with prices that low would not have met the reserve price. Plus, I would be extremely careful about buying a Porsche from eBay � wouldn�t you? However the answer to your main question depends upon what you want if for I suspect. I would assume that the water cooled cars would be better for driving but, having never owned anything prior to my C4S I can�t say for sure. The one thing I would suggest is that you go out and drive as many as you can and then make your decision. Most reputable dealers should be happy to let you take their cars for a spin � otherwise find another dealer. When you find the car that really speaks to you � buy it! It worked for me. Barry

That's good advice. What I'm seeing on eBay is that no one seems to be getting what they want for their 996's. There are massive amounts of 996's for sale right now and few auctions are ending with buyers - many w/o even 1 bidder. Are that many ppl dumping their 996's for 997's? If so I think it's a shame because I really love the 996, but I've been salivating at the prices since the 997 was announced. I wouldn't be using the car as a daily driver so reliablity is a concern, but not the main concern. Most of the car's time would be spent on curvy backroads and the track. This is why I was asking about the rear engined habits of the 993 vs the 996. A dealer might be upset if I tried to test the legendary Porsche oversteer on a test drive.

Like Barry said above, spend as much time as you can in both iterations. Your heart will let you know which model does it for you. The 993 and the 996 are somewhat different in design philosophy. The 993 being more 'direct' and raw, where the 996 is more modern with an updated interior, water cooling etc. If you search the archives, you'll find this very discussion has been pretty popular, both here and on the 993 forum. Drive both and you'll realize which one is for you!

You're referring to the highest bids on eBay and that they're not meeting the reserve price. This doesn't mean the cars are selling in the 20's. In typical eBay fashion, bidders who have no intention of buying the cars unless they can get them at firesale prices (i.e. drastically below market) are the only ones bidding on those cars at that time. This has nothing to do with market prices, hence the sellers reserves. I sold my 996 in July. Had it on eBay and got one guy who seemed real (it was a stretch for him financially), but it didn't meet the reserve. Put it in the local paper and sold it to the first guy who called at the same price as my eBay reserve price. So much for eBay... I liked the 996 much more than the 993 (the interior of which I really hated, at least 20 years out of date). You need to drive a few examples of each and the choice for you will become obvious. Good luck and be patient.

Better off to go by Autotrader prices, at least here in So. Calif. I would not pay 10k for a 99 with over 60k miles on the clock and no warranty. Drive them both and then decide where to put your money! I love my 996, very comfortable inside and also performs well with my mods... Robert

Thanks for the advice from all. I've decided to track about 15 cars on eBay to see the final bidding price. If I choose a 996 I'm looking to spend about 35k for a C2 99-00 996 with milage in the 40s. Next thing is to get some real seat time.

I think I'd give 10k for a 99 MY! Know where any are?

my suggestion, if you are going to go used, get a 993 turbo

I have bought several cars off ebay. Just do your research and you can save quite a bit. Like anything else DO YOUR RESEARCH and you will be fine. I have had board members check out cars for me and I have done the same for others.

FWIW - 996 is faster, smoother, more comfortable, has AC and wipers that actually work. Better ergonomics. More reliable. The 993 looks better air cooled engine and more involving. Doors close with a bank vault sound. Not so hot (should I say cool) AC and wipers, quirky ergonomics and more "issues" then the 996. Both are wonderful and reliable (in spite of the fact that we know *everything* that goes wrong) cars. Drive them and see for yourself.

If this newbie gets a turbo it'll come back around and bite him in the butt.

I've bought at least a dozen cars on Ebay ranging from a $15k Jeep to a $206k Ferrari. I don't think more than 2 or 3 of the deals were closed on Ebay (ie: via the Ebay auction system). Further, I remember paying $6k less than the reserve price on one and recently $11k more than the highest closing bid on another. You can really draw no useful conclusions IMO based on reserve or buy it now prices not being met on Ebay.

turbo's are out the 35K price range he said he was looking in above. I am also looking at 996's right now there are a lot of dog's out there - do your research, look at a lot of them, pay for a PPI, and as always buy the best or newest car you can afford. WHich in this case would be a MY99 or 00. 996 are very good for all the right reasons - they are different than the 993's and 964's

I found my 99 C2 Cab on ebay. I was waiting for the right local car to come up so I could check it out myself. I bought the car for the Buy It Now price from ebay and was told by the seller that ebay is just a way to advertise his cars. The deals are done on the phone in 90% of the cases. My local dealer did a full inspection and I LOVE my car. Make no conclusions about car prices by what you see on ebay.

Since I have owned Porsches since 1970 I guess you know what I'm going to say. lol The 993 is still the 911 that we have loved for 40 years, there's no other car in the world like it. The 996 is a different animal. Yes its faster, more refined, etc. Does anyone love the 996's? I don't get the same thrill that I get in a 911. They are different cars, I think made for different people. That doesn't make one better than the other as far as cars go, but as far as Porsches go I will take a 993 anytime. But thats just a personal opinion for an Old Guy lol

Get a 993 and own a Porsche made at the pinnacle of the air-cooled design. Besides a 993 will be worth more than a early 996 in a couple of years....(if not already).

Actually, yes, I love my C4S - it has a great blend of power, refinement and handling. It's a bit like the factory PSE that is installed - most of the time I ride around with it on the quiet setting and just chill, but every so often I switch to loud mode and listen to the great noises it makes. This was what I was looking for...however, that said, I didn't try any of the 993s and I wish I had just for the fun of it. My guess would be that some day I will own both of them...or rather my wife/son/lodger/whatever will be convinced that a 993 is just the car they need and I will get to use it from time to time Heck - it worked with the motorcycles - I have a BMW and convinced my wife that she wanted a Ducati (actually, she chose that but I am sure that my postive comments along the way helped) ANyway, if you enjoy what you drive...who cares? There is no 'right and wrong' here. Barry

I would love to own both. But if I have to pick one, it has to be the 993.

Having driven the 95' 993 for awhile and also now owning a 99' 996, they are definitely totally different cars. The 993 seems more brawney and the dated interior styling reminds me of my old 1985 toyota supra, while the 996 is sleeker, much faster and so much more refined. They both have strengths, but once you drive them both you should be able to tell which one better suites your needs and holds your affections more. If you do get a 996, my advice is to find one with under 40K miles at most, and then look into extended warranties for peace of mind.

Well I've just about finished up my eBay research. A silver 99 with the aero kit and 40k on the clock sold for 36k. That seems about right. The other 14 or so didn't sell, but I can see what you guys are saying about eBay being just a place to advertise and that most deals are done by phone. Have a question for cupcar though, since I'm a newbie, you're gonna have to explain the MY prefix and the PPI acronym. I'm guessing that MY is simply model year and that PPI has something to do with an extended warranty but I haven't seen these before on other car forums so.....I thought I'd suck up my pride and ask. Concerning the advice that I should not buy a car with more that 40k miles on the clock, is the legendary Porsche reliability just a myth or does it just not concern the 996? I wouldn't think twice about buying a BMW (sorry guys, soon to be ex-BMW driver here) with 40k miles. Is it really that bad? Keep in mind I'll probably put about 4k miles on it a year.

Not a problem MY = Model Year PPI= Pre-Purchase Inspection Each model has it's own quirks - the 996 has the Rear main seal problem as it's primary trouble point. I do not know how many are affected but there are a lot of 996's out there. I will let some current owners answer this one however

ebay isn't the best way to guage market prices because there is a lot of uncertainty in buying a car online. because of that uncertainty, the price will most definately be lower. Market price, like someone said before, is the actual sale price and not what the bid price is. if 5 cars are for sale and one sells for 50K while the others are in the 20's, 30, 40's but don't meet reserve, the market is 50K. My econ 101 from college is paying off. Bobby

Actually buying a 996 with 40K is fine, but run the vin dealer history. See whether rms was done (how many times?). Most rms "victims" feel that if you don't have it at 40K, you won't get it. Have the vin run at a Pcar dealer & pay for it if you have to. My .02

I have found that long term Porsche's seem to be quite a mystery. Some 993 friends have dumped 3-5 k into engine this engine that and 996's have there share or RMS leaks and engine replacements too. I guess it boils down to the fact that if you want to change the oil once every 10 years then buy lexus or Toyota, if you want to go fast and race then buy a german car and ecpect to pay the piper at some point. Robert

how 'bout mid-$30s for a "slighty" used '00 996 c2? you can have a fellow-rennlister's car for that much (mine). it has lots of notable extras and despite the mileage, it has never leaked anything, and probably runs better than half the cars on this board--especially berny's (scouser)

Well I'm not quite ready to buy yet but I have a friend who will be ready fairly soon. Post or PM me some pics and I'll forward them to him. We're both looking for C2 models only, preferably with an aero kit. But that's probably wishfull thinking. What is the mileage, by the way?

996 is a much more usable car. The larger trunk, considerably lower interior noise level, and wider passenger compartment will let you use your 996 in place of the Bentley more often. Join your local PCA and your usage of either model will increase due to club events. The 993 will hold it's resale better, will be more sporty and may increase your traffic ticket points count. But, I'm not going back. Search the archives regarding RMS Rear Main Seal poll and you will find that it is less of an issue than it appears on the 996 discussion boards. . Under no circumstances buy a Boxster as the depreciation on those is more than a 911 type. Mid 30's for a 2000 C2 is a good price. The May-June price will be $5000 higher than the November price.

Link for the rear main seal poll is: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hlight=poll%3A

well interestingly enough the latest pano tech section has a small discussion on the 996/997 and 993 engines. the tech adviser (joel rieser) states the the 993s are coming down with OBD-II failures. Also that the 964 and 993 engines have worn out valve guides at low miles (exhaust guides worn at 10-20K). see p. 80.

What is OBDII failures? Those valve guides may be the result of improper breakin. Ever heard of people driving like they stole it, straight from the box?

I've been watching the 964 boards for almost 5 years now and I don't recall ever reading a post about valve guides failing on a 964 at 10,000-20,000 miles (as Mr. Rieser states). Top ends (if needed) seem to be occuring well past the 100,000 mile mark on our 964's. 3.2 and 3.0 motors from the previous generation seem to be even more bullet proof. Here's a thread on Mr. Rieser's claims and the OBDII issues off the 993 board: Link Sorry to invade your board. These discussions are interesting to even us older 911 owners, especially since our early year 964's have such a bad reputation (motor wise) and the early 996's seem to be heading in a similar direction (no offense/disrespect intended) at times. Jay My 964

Do they state the reason for the premature valve guide wear? Also, how common is the problem? I'm sitting here shaking my head in disbelief. My son has a '94 Infiniti G20 with well over 200K miles. Last Saturday we did a compression test on the G20's four cylinders and the four readings were almost identical. Granted the G20 is far from a performance car but how can its engine go over 200K miles without burning oil and suffering any significant decrease in power output, and the 993 has worn valve guides with less than 20K miles ?

I've read that the 'experts' think the material that the valve guides are made out of is not holding up to the higher temps in the 3.6. Oil is then getting past the worn guides and then clogging/gunking up certain sections of the motor. The 1996 and newer OBDII motors are then throwing check engine light codes, not allowing them to pass emmissions in states where they check for the CEL codes. Keep in mind that worn valve guides do not affect every 993 and 964 out there. There are many examples of 993's & 964's that are not in need of a top end job and have high miles on them. Just like there are many 996's with zero RMS problems. It's probably not wise to conclude that all these cars have worn valve guides at 10,000 miles. Jay 90 964

You are suggesting that the problem could be that the material from which the valve guide is made can't handle the high temperatures. But if that's the case, why don't all 993s have premature valve guide wear since I would expect that they are made out of the same material? The only other variable of course is the manner in which the cars are driven. Maybe the cars that have a lot of track time will experience the problem more than cars that aren't tracked. Based on what I've read on this Board, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between how hard a car is driven and RMS leaks since some 996 owners were particularly careful with their cars and they still had the leak. Anyway, Jay thanks for sharing the information.

I went w/ a 02 996 so I can get a factory warranty, low mileage. I'd be worried about buying a 99' 996 since they are out of warranty and seem to be most problematic. However, there are tons of 99 out there and some are priced below $40k (probly not in excellent condition) If I were to spend $35-40k, I'd buy a late model 993 instead of a 996 simply bc of the RMS risk. 996 interior is more updated but not worth gambling an engine replacement. If you do get a 996 w/o warranty, look into an aftermarket warranty. Make sure the car is completely stock though as those aftermarket warranty will typically try to screw you.

I have seen no evidence that '99 996's are more problematic than any other MY. There are many threads on this and other forums that support this. I bought a 99 cab in May with 25k mi, and have driven it 7k mi in 6 mo. No problems. I also have a couple of friends with 99's with no issues. And I do know about M96 problems as I had my engine fail (among other issues) in my Boxster. RMS is not a reason not to buy a 996, and FWIW, the RMS issue has yet to be corrected. So don't be surprised if the one in your '02 fails. Also, RMS alone does not warrant engine replacement. Out of round crank leading to RMS failures does. '99 MY 996's may be purchased CPO from Porsche dealers, however they do seem to be rare. It took me 6 months to find my low mileage CPO '99 cab. I purchased the 2 yr/100k mi FACTORY limited warranty ($1549) from Porsche.

Porche marketing... wow. 2yr or 100K. How many Pcar owner has anyone ever heard of that have done 100K in 2 yr? Man, these guys know how to print money........

Remember, that warranty includes the miles already on the car. If the car has 50k on it, then the warranty is 50k or two years whichever comes 1st. They still got you by the *****.

The 100k is a limit, just like any other warranty. If you buy a CPO car with 60k miles on it, the warranty is for 40k mi or 2yr, whichever comes first.

It's not bad for about $1500. I wish they would offer the same deal for existing owners to extend the factory warranty. If they don't have something like that by the time my warranty is up I may swap for a CPO 997.

Did you find your car? I think I saw the 99 silver aero on Ebay, but it was not a full aero kit and it didn't have the aero front end. Instead it had a turbo fiberglass aftermarket front piece. The car sold for $37k and had 46k miles. I offered $36k before I knew of the fiberglass front end and I'm glad I missed it. Factory full aerokit cars are going to cost more than $40k IMO. Full aerokit cars seem to bring over $50k if they're in good order. You can find a high mile box stock rough car in your price range and I'm guessing if you've purchased that's what you've ended up with due to your budget constraints.

Nevermind........................ Beware, not all aerokits are real. The fiberglass copies suck. That's why the silver one went so cheap. It did have nice wheels though.