993 vs. 996

Hey guys I am thinking a purchasing a 2nd car and I am tilting towards a 993 but I can't belive the cost of these vehicles. Can anyone tell me why these cars hold there value so well while the 996 seems to be depreciating at much higher rates. Look at some of these prices. Keep in mind these prices are in Canadian dollars.....which is pretty much par or will be soon vs. US currency. http://www.trader.ca/MVLAllMakes/Def...tegory=&alpha= http://www.trader.ca/Autoforum/Defau...tegory=&alpha= Cheers

Several factors but basically: 1) A supply vs. demand issue. There's way more 996's than 993's out there. 2) The 993, especially the last 2 years of production, are "milestone" cars in the sense that they represent the end of an era in the 911 history, i.e. the air-cooled engine. 3) Because of 2) some may argue the 993 embodies more classic/collector value than the 996. 4) Many enthusiasts argue that the 993 is the best design implementation of the 911 concept, and thus makes them more of an object of desire (Not this enthusiast writer... I love every iteration of the 911 in their own special way). My 2 centavos... Cheers.

Did the values of the 993 drop dramatically and then stabilize when the 996 came out or should we consider the 996 a completely different car than the 993 and therefore look at it as two distinct markets? I know the 996 was made in more numbers, but they are still realtively rare cars compared to other sports cars. Bobby

Since 1963, from what I have read, a total of 401,232 automobiles were produced. 69,137 were the last generation 993's. I would be very interested to know how many 996's went into production. Cheers and safe driving.

I didnt understand what you mean by 2 different market. However, judging by the price range 993 holds over years, perception of 993 value says something in my oppinion. One question I come up with is, will 997 affect value of 996 more or 993 more. If we can notice some distinct different changes on both 996 and 993 market, then yes I guess we can say 996 is different market than 993. Another aspect I can think of is will customer be among same group or not. My imagination is ppl who look for 993 has some different angles than 996 customers. Both used cars but again, above mentioned, preference of choosing 993 over 996 is obviously not only because 993 is cheaper. For me, 993 is more desirable because it is air cooled and is rare and yes it is the milestone of 911 history.

One of the most important qualities that I believe most people look for in a used car is reliability. That's why the price of almost all American used cars is so low. There's lots of questions on the part of many knowlegeable Porsche used car buyers about the reliablity of the 996. Also, the quality of materials in the 996 doesn't meet the high standard of that in the 993. There's no question in my mind that Porsche made an effort to reduce their manufacturing costs when they designed the 996. One subtle change is the elimination of the dry sump in the 996. So when you consider the 996's reliability, quality of materials, water cooled engine, and abundant supply, you have a car that doesn't hold its value as well as the 993. Compare the price of the '97 993 to that of the '01 996s in the following link. http://brandywine.porschedealer.com/...ory/search.php

The two links provided are not good examples. The first car is a modified 993 twin turbo with 520 hp (claimed) and the second is a 964 based 3.6 turbo only available in 1994. Neither of these cars is even remotely a comparison to a NA 996. Both cars were produced in such limited numbers compared to the NA 993 and the NA 996. Without knowing what the conversion of the Canadian to US Dollar is both cars are over priced. There are 3.6 Turbo S's for listed for $80k or less and they are even more rare than the 3.6 Turbo. I have seen unmodified 993 Twin Turbo's with lower miles listed in the $60k's. Both cars are over priced in my opinion. The prices are all determined by supply and demand. The fact is the 996 has been sold in vastly greater numbers than the 993. Porsche has been selling roughly 25k 996's each year of production. The numbers of the 996 eclipsed the 993 after 3 years. Market forces say the 996 would depreciate faster. Also if you look at the 993 market you will see that the car enjoyed a very long period of time with limited depreciation. However, in the last year to 1-2 years the depreciation curve has gotten steeper. Whereas, the 996 was produced in such numbers that it has had a pretty steady depreciation over since its introduction. It will be interesting to see what the effect the 997 has on both models. The fact that Porsche produces so many more cars now means that the cars are going to have steeper depreciation curves than past cars. You want a stable market, with limited depreciation, look at the SC�s and Carrera�s made in the 80�s. The 993 and the 996 are different cars. Drive both and decide what you want. I have owned both. Each model has its charms and idiosyncrasies and each has its strength and weaknesses. It depends on what you want how you are going to drive the car. Weekend fun car that where you want some of the charm of the older cars, then the 993 is probably the best bet. Daily driver where you want the mix of sport with function, then probably the 996. To make you decision on alleged popularity among purist or to discount and/or claim one car is superior over the other without considering the purpose and intended use is not doing justice to either car.

The 993 was the start of Porsche's effort to reduce the manufacturing cost, why do you think the sticker price of a 993 was less than the 964? Porsche hired japanese consultants that streamlined the manufacturering process and introduced more robotics to the manufacturing process. The 986 and the 996 were the next step. They further modernized the production line and started sharing many parts to save on purchasing cost. All of course were necessary because of Porsche's serious money problems in the early 90's.

Fast1: The comparison on the link you provide is not quite apples to apples, since the 993 shown there is a cab vs. a 996 coupe. Consider $8K to $10K less for a 993 coupe. Cheers.

993 late model are supposed to be bullet proof in reliability. Combine that with a fat rear end, it's no wonder die hards keep their cars and those on market are considered rare. 996 are more dime and a dozen, plenty on eBay and your use car lots. Many 99-2001 were leased during the dot com days and have since been sold in recent years. Early 996 no longer have warranty and the RMS issue doesn't help resale value either.

There were several cars listed. Here's one of them: 2001 Porsche Carrera 4 Cabriolet 23,500 mi Polar Silver Metallic Black - Full Leather Interior 6-Speed Manual $56,900.00

I just made the same decision: 996's have the RMS issue. 993's (not my 1995) have the CEL/SAI issue, a lot cheaper to fix, even at 5k. Gosh help a 996 owner out of warranty needing a new engine. That really scared me away to be honest with you. 993's were more handbuilt.....build quality of these is just amazing. 993's have better curves IMHO...a taste thing. I like the C4S in the 996, but the plain carrera's look just like Boxters to me and to my friends. The convertibles are really hard to tell apart until you are behind them.... I like the 993 interior more...it is simpler, from a racing car in more ways than from a Lexus. My chipped, cold air-ed, BB exhausted C4 is getting 23mpg around town...amazing....so the 993's can be frugal. I do drive sportingly. The drive is more raw....probably less fast at 10/10ths, but for my needs the 993 is far more fun. And fun is what a sports car is supposed to be all about. They are simpler. By PCA standards, I am really a slow driver. I just like to have fun and cruise in my "dream car." I would probably have fun in a number of older cars too, I just like the 993. The 993 was the last of the pre-corporate cars IMHO....996/997 have to include concerns about survival/profit to a greater degree than past cars. Nothign wrong with that. They are amazing cars. The real kicker for me is the RMS issue. Because of this, the only 996 cars or later I would buy are those based on the more reliable engine (TT, GT3, etc.), and I cannot afford those. Good luck. Get a warranty if you get the 996 and read the pca.org threads and those here on the SAI and RMS issues to know about the two big problems in these cars. PS: I forgot to say, I checked oil consumption out on this car via the old mechanic from the PO.....that is an issue on 993's...valve guide wear. Not sure about 996's. Read the rennlist threads on it too. Again, good luck.

I personally like the front of the 993, but don't like the back, esp the tail lights. I wish the back was more like the 75-89 Series of 911's. In contrast, I think the 996 has a wonderful rear end, modern but still classic. But then off course the fried egg lights at the front aren't great. The 997 seems to have the best of both- round lights at the front, and great modern rear end. As someone who wants to buy a Porsche soon but can't afford much (less than 20k), I'll probably get something in that was made between 74-89. But I am happy about the fact that the 996's are cheaper than late model 993's---it means in the future I might be able to skip the 993 and go right to 996 next. Just my two cents. Marv.

My references are fuzzy but I will throw this out; In a recent car magizine there was an article about the TOP 10 sports cars of the 90's. Each of several editors/drivers listed their ten favorites of the 90's. Then the list was compiled into a final top 10. The 993 was on the list, the 996 was not. Sorry, I do not recall the mag, Maybe someone else saw it as well. I own a 996 but I prefer the looks of the 993, that said I didn't buy the car for the looks. Chris 1999 C2

On the other hand, I've seen reviews that trash the air cooled Porsches and laud the 996 models (Jeremy Clarkson's 100 Greatest is an example). My 996 is my third Porsche. I skipped the 993. I found it to be totally anachronistic --some find the air-cooled engine a "feature", I find it to be a sign of times gone by that limited the ability to engineer multiple valve heads. I also dislike very much the dated upright windshield and greenhouse of the car. I find the interior to be plain and cramped (I'm 5'11" and 175 lbs). And most important of all, the 996 outperforms the 993 in virtually every way--it's just far more capable. If on the other hand, you find less capable to be more entertaining, then the 993 is certainly the car for you--or you could buy a used Miata, which is also very entertaining within it's limits.

Both are terrific cars. But both offer very different driving experiences. Brian (BET) gave a very good, basic rationale for each. Since YOU are the one putting 30-60 G's into the choice, what's said here is ultimately of little importance. Drive each and decide what appeals to you. My two cents are listed below.

jbushsha, "996's have the RMS issue. 993's (not my 1995) have the CEL/SAI issue, a lot cheaper to fix, even at 5k." How is an $800 RMS repair more expensive than a $5k valve guide repair? Engine replacements are very rare and will be even more rare when the car is out of warrantee. "993's were more handbuilt.....build quality of these is just amazing." Later 993s were actually built on a line right next to the 996 using much of the same technology. I have one of each and have found the build quality to be very similar. (A couple of months ago when I said this someone responded by saying the switch gear in the 993 was much better. I've been through two window switches since then.) "The drive is more raw....probably less fast at 10/10ths, but for my needs the 993 is far more fun. And fun is what a sports car is supposed to be all about." Actually I would like to think that a Porsche should go fast, not just feel like it's going fast. "The 993 was the last of the pre-corporate cars IMHO" By pre-corporate, you mean pre-profit? The 993 could also be viewed as the last nail in Porsche's coffin. The one that the 996 pulled out. Fourtaylor, When 911 and Porsche World picked it's 100 best the 996 came in second to the 917. The first 993 variant was around 11 I think. Fast, "There's lots of questions on the part of many knowlegeable Porsche used car buyers about the reliablity of the 996." Who? Sure people bitch about the RMS. It's totally unacceptable but it's not like a nagging problem is something new to Porsche. Every series has them. 993 - Corrosion around window seals, DME relays, steering rack, wiring harness, valve guides. "Also, the quality of materials in the 996 doesn't meet the high standard of that in the 993." Which materials? Window switches? Window seals? Inside door handles? Trunk release? Steering wheel? I don't think so. Some materials are better on the 993, some are better on the 996. I'd call it a toss up. Don't get me wrong. I love air cooled Porsches and I love my 993. I'll probably have my 98 cab long after my 996 club racer has gone away. But I get so sick of the BS in these 993 vs 996 threads. Jim

Jim B Which car, in your opinion, is more crashworthy? (do I need a winkie thing after that?)

JimB, I think you're right on the money. The 993 is a nice car, but I get a little tired of the "993 drives on water" crowd.

caf "993 drives on water" LOL - On the track, I have passed a lot of different cars in the wet, even 996 turbos. Of course the next day in the dry...

Mike, I'm not sure it's fair making us mere mortals race in the rain against the king turtle. And, as I recall, you kicked our butts in a water cooled car. One with the engine at the wrong end but water cooled none the less. On the crash front, I've found the 996 to be very safe in high speed concrete wall testing. With any luck, I'll have no more test results for some period of time. Jim

Jim I would certainly hope you would need no further testing. You've already done significant work in extending our knowledge. I've also had the pleasure of driving the 993 on water at Road America as well. Yes, the episode you refer to was in a front-engine, water-cooled car. This would be the Turtle, and that would be Jim under the word "casino". And as I recall, you were past me by turn one at the start.

My hat's off to you for your wet-driving prowess. By the way, were those 996TT's on slicks?

No. Nor was I. (although I considered saying "I was" ) My comments were a good-natured response to "but I get a little tired of the "993 drives on water" crowd". They actually are wonderful in the wet.

I was ribbing you as well about the TT being on slicks! Good looking 944S2, by the way. I've been toying with getting something similar for track duty. My first Porsche test drive was in a 16 valve 944. I ended up buying a new '88 TurboS that year. Never should have sold that car!

They make wonderful track cars, and force you to learn momentum. There are a lot of good, already set-up cars out there. If it goes beyond 'toying', let me know. You can learn from my mistakes. You run Putnam frequently?

I hadn't been on the track for quite some time until going out to Putnam a couple of weeks ago. I had a blast and would like to do more track time, but I'd like to find something cheaper to beat up on than my 996. I hear what you say about momentum; a lot of those cars were "momenting" right by me!

caf & Mike, If I had it to do over again, I'd be racing an S2 in F. You guys have so much fun. I've actually been thinking about parting out my 996 and building an F class Boxster. On paper it looks like it would be very competitive. If I could find a cheap one with front end damage I could make use of a bunch of my 996 body and suspension parts. I wonder if the scruts would notice if I dropped in my 3.6L X51? Always thinking. Jim

Jim You're the third guy in a week I've heard talking about building a Boxster for F. I'm not sure they are thinking of the same engine option. The scruts might not notice, but a few of your competitors might.

JimB, i couldn't have said it better myself. 993 is a great car, but it does't drive on water ;-) can't wait to try 997gt3.

Mike, I wish a few people would jump in first and build some F class boxsters. My pocketbook is still stinging from being an early 996 racer. That's what's so great about the S2. There are teams around that know how to make them perfect. On the other hand, I would sure love to be in a class with all you nuts. Moot, As great as the current GT3 is I can't even imagine what the 997 will be like. Jim

To get back to the question as to why the resale values are what they are (the "993 vs 996, which car is better" debate is soooo old!), IMO there are two major reasons: 1. general supply vs. demand as was pointed out earlier (demand driven by a large variety of reasons) 2. just as importantly IMHO is that many 996s were leased and the residual values assigned in the leases act as a semi self-fulfilling prophecy and become a lid on resale prices. afterall, how many leasors of 996s actually excercise the buy-out option? I know of only very few. anyone who frequents the 993 and 993TT forum will know that resale values of these cars have actually been creeping up in the last year. good 993TTs now go for $75-80k vs $65-70k a year ago...really bummed that I didn't get one then, but now looks like the 996TT are getting into this range. (disclosure: I have a 94 and a 98 993)

"The 993 and the 996 are different cars. Drive both and decide what you want. I have owned both. Each model has its charms and idiosyncrasies and each has its strength and weaknesses. It depends on what you want how you are going to drive the car. Weekend fun car that where you want some of the charm of the older cars, then the 993 is probably the best bet. Daily driver where you want the mix of sport with function, then probably the 996. To make you decision on alleged popularity among purist or to discount and/or claim one car is superior over the other without considering the purpose and intended use is not doing justice to either car." I think that Brian said this before, and I can't say it better than he did. They are two completely different cars with way different personalities. I just bought a 993 as a daily driver--it is not as comfortable or easy to drive as the 996. It has less space for luggage [or tiny bags rather ]. It doesn't feel quite as quick as the 996. The 993 is, however, my favorite Porsche ever. The look, the clear links to the original 911, the smell of the interior, the bark of the air-cooled engine...all of these factors led to my decision to purchase the 993 instead of buy out the lease on my 996. One other main point: the 993 [mine is the last year for the narrow bodies] is destined to be a classic. IMHO, the 996 is destined to be a depreciation disaster, especially with the 997 being the more desireable water cooled 911 [or so most people who I talk to think so] Just my $.02--good luck in your search