C2 vs. C4

Hello All. Looking to buy my fist Porsche and would like any advise on whether to get a C2 or a C4. It has to be a Cab. It will be a daily driver and I don't plan to track the car, but I would love a spirited drive occasionally. Is there a difference in gas mileage, servicing, expenses, resale? Any thoughts MUCH appreciated. Thanks, Tom

First of all, where are you located? If you live where there's snow, the C4 is the much better choice without a doubt! Overall, there really isn't much difference in gas mileage. Same for servicing and expenses. The front tires really don't wear that much faster in a C4 than they do in a C2. You can figure that you'll need to replace the rears twice as often as the fronts no matter which car you choose. The C4 is a better handling car in the rain because of the AWD, and in the snow there's no comparison, the C4 wins hands own. Other than that, there's not really much difference between the two! The AWD doesn't require any extra service at regular intervals above and beyong the RWD. I'm not sure about differences at higher-mileage major services like 60K miles. I'm guessing there's nothing special that has to be done. Maybe they change the oil in the front differential at 100K? I'm really not sure. Best of luck whatever you decide!

Thanks Teflon, BTW I live in sunny So Cal, hence the Cab.

I just bought a c-2 cab two months ago and regret that I didn't go for the c-4 simply because of the snow here in NY. If I lived in Cali, like you, I'd get the c-2 and spend the extra dough you saved on options/mods. Enjoy. Gary

The C2 is lighter, slightly quicker and more closely approximates the original driving experience of the 911. Those were major reasons in our selection. Both C2 and C4 are wonderful cars. A C4S is a striking car visually with the turbo-style body and underpinnings.......

I live in SoCal and went for the C4 Cab. I think that it is important to go to a dealer that has both available and to test drive them back to back. The C2's steering is a little lighter. I (personally) liked the C4 steering feel and I liked the added safety of the 4-wheel drive. If you go with the C2, make sure that it has PSM. It's standard on the C4. When you are looking, make sure that you understand all of the options that are available when you search for your car. As an example, when I looked for mine, I had to have Litronics, Heated seats w/memory, 18" wheels and PSM. Don't be surprised if it takes you a while to find what you want. It took me four months. Happy hunting.

Tom If you are looking at a used C4 I have a beautiful 99 that I am looking to sell. It is certified by Porsche until 2/2006 or 100,000 miles. The car has every available option and the original sticker was over $110,000. You can email me at [email removed]

the steering feel is definitely different between the two, with the C2 steering feeling lighter with less feedback to the driver. and the C4 also feels more planted on the road than the C2 overall.

Isn't there a good thread on this struggle from a week or two ago.

Yeah, and seems like every few months... And the answer is always the same... Get the C4 Cab! Just kidding; couldn't resist. Drive them both. I've owned both, and definitely prefer the C4. Even in California; it will give you confidence in the rain. A great "first Porsche" choice as well since it is more forgiving of driver error. Don't be deterred by it being less like the "original" driving experience. A 996 TT has AWD. The 993 C4S has AWD. The 959 had AWD! So just what is "original" anyway when the AWD system has quite a heritage at Porsche? The "original" fans are referring to the satisfaction that comes from controlling a car with oversteer and using the throttle to steer the car through a turn (on the track). BTW, in dry weather, I think an upgraded suspension makes a bigger difference in handling than the AWD.

Thanks everybody for your replies. (sigh)...... such a dilemma..... Tom

While I concur with ervtx's remarks on the AWD variants and his understanding of trailing throttle oversteer, I have to remind him that there were only about 337 959s built, and the first Carrera 4 appeared in the spring of 1989, if memory serves. From the introduction of the 911 in late 1964 until the advent of the C4 the "original" 911 was rear engine, rear wheel drive.

I really like the way both 2WD drive and the AWD drive feel in the corners. I have never owned an AWD NA Porsche, but I think I would prefer the 2wd with 320 hp and definitely the AWD is awesome with the TT. It is kind of nice having both because they both feel different in the corners. The AWD seem better planted obviously because it pulls around the corner and I think the added weight helps. The 2WD drive is fun because it seem easier to toss into a corner and slide the tail out a bit. That is just fun though and probably not a sign of better performance. My take is that AWD is not needed on straight shots as the 2WD has great traction unless you completely dump the clutch and try to induce wheel spin. The turbo on the other hand will light all four up in second or third gear on wet roads if you just punch it in the middle of the gear.

Your memory serves you correctly regarding the introduction of the C4. However, Porsche produced the AWD 953 (a 911) in the 1983, and won the the Paris-Dakar rally with it in 1984. If my math serves me correctly, Porsche has been in the 911 AWD business for half of the model's 40 year existence. No argument on significance of the 2wd. Just hate to see people imply that a C4 isn't a real 911.

I looked at both and recently bought a 2wd 1999 coupe with 35,000 miles on it. Why ? Because it was the nicest car that we looked at and we looked at plenty. I was hot for a guards red 4wd car but the examples I found were not as nice as my 2wd car. I definitely wanted a coupe. When I was looking I actually did not find a premium for cabriolets. I think that now that summer is near that cab prices are higher than coupes. Has anybody else noticed a bigger drop in cabriolet prices during the winter than the drop in coupe prices ? The whole pcar pricing seems to have firmed over the last 2 months. Frankly, I am amazed at how forgiving my 2 wd is under all conditions. As fast as a 996 is the handling and braking are capable of saving my bacon even when I step on it a little harder than I should. My car has the 220 locking diff, the 224 active brake diff, and 222 traction control with 18" wheels. This baby is fast enough for me !

It is interesting to see so many people think C4 or C2/PSM is necessary. I live in Seattle and drive C2 no PSM. I absolutely have no problem at all with my car. While AWD is great but I don't believe it is necessary. I have a couple other AWD vehicles in the garage w/ESP but I dont get to use those features unless I drive in snow. I believe both GT2 and GT3 are RWD :-) If this is the only car you will have and live in an aread where the whether can be of concern, I say C4 is a better choice but for CA, I highly doubt it. Probably that's the reason why most luxury SUVs sold in CA are 2WD!

ervtx: I'm not saying the C4 isn't a real 911. In my first post I stated both the C2 and C4 are wonderful cars. My point was the original 911 was rear engine, rear wheel drive and the 996 C2 is the closest to that configuration of the current production cars. You're correct on the 953, but it was a purpose-built racer and only three were produced. Porsche competed at Paris-Dakar the following year with the 959, built in limited numbers. The 959 was a supercar, way ahead of its time in performance and unfortunately cost, which hastened its quick demise. The C4 introduced as a 964 variant in early 1989 was the first AWD 911 built in significant numbers.

i don't think PSM is necessary for most people, but it is nice to have. i actually turn mine off a lot of the time so that i can push the car through corners more without having the PSM intervene. if you drive in snow with your p-car, then i think it's smart to get it. if you're used to driving in snow, you don't need it most of the time, but even if it saves your butt once, i think it's worth it.

100% Agree (and I bought a C4)

what the difference in curb weight between a 3.4L 996 C2 and a 3.4L 996 C4 (not C4s widebody) ?

C2 manual 1320 Kg (2904 lb.) Tiptronic 1365 Kg (3003 lb.) C4 manual 1375 Kg (3025 lb. Tiptronic 1420 Kg (3124 lb.)

Interesting. The C2's steering certainly has a lighter feel, but less feedback? Not my experience at all; on the contrary I think the C2 has more feedback than the C4, without the extra hardware and mass up front. As others have said, one has to drive both and make a decision.

I love the planted feel of my C4. Its so nice for an inexperienced driver like myself to push it hard in the tight turns with confidence. I must admit that at times I kind of miss sound of tire chirp between shifts when driving aggressively. Also can't drift the tail out. On the flip side I can do all of that stuff in my G35 but rarely do, go figure...

Ervtx, I have owned a C4 and now a 996TT. You can force oversteer in a TT and throttle steer it. It's much more difficult than a C2, but you can do it. I have driven my TT sideways, turn after turn, in a special slippery circuit. I have done the same with a C2 and with a plain BMW 3 series. The easiest: the BMW. With the TT you need much more speed and....decision once it is sent sideways. Anyhow, I would NEVER want to do it outside a circuit. You need a lot of trial and error and the error can be fatal in a road !!! PS.- I do enjoy letting the TT ( 4wd ) oversteer softly a bit (!!) during my trips. Nothing wrong with it, perfectly safe. It takes more time to be learned than a C2 but that's all.

I also was looking into a C4 coupe, But when I Saw My Black Beauty and sat in the TARGA and that was all that was needed. As much as I love the C4 the targa is more my speed - During the winter months I mount on My Dunlops M2 Winter Sports and she is great in the snow, what more could you ask for...

NEGATIVE - I found the C2 provide more feedback than all the C4 I have driven, I still love the C4, but as far as driver feedback, C2 all the way, again, it's all relative my brothers...

well, to each their own! i've driven both and felt like i was getting better feedback from the C4 than the C2. it could have been the tires since they were different on each car, or hot versus cold days, or me just having different perceptions due to the AWD versus RWD. or maybe it's the extra 150 pounds in the front of the C4 due to the AWD hardware? regardless, i still felt like i was getting better steering feedback in the C4.

I vote C2, just got mine a few months ago and love it!

The GT3 seats should take care of the weight bias.

C4S

Depends on the what the defintion of feedback is. AWD you definitely feel the fronts in the steering wheel because they are pulling you through the turn. This, however, detracts in my opinion from really feeling the tires grip. The C2 feels much smoother through the sterring wheel and when you begin to a bit of cavitation, which alwsys seem present with the C4, you know that the C2 fronts are getting on close to the edge. My TT steering wheel feel seems pretty much the same at 2/10 as it does at 8/10s. This is not to detract from the pull you get through the corner. I just think the actual feel or feedback part is a lot more pure with a C2.

My '72 240Z could be taken into a turn on a wet day and accellerate to a point where there was a definite lightening of feel through the steering wheel. The car could be held at the speed through the curve but would spin if pushed much harder. Fortunately, I learned this trait on a deserted shopping center parking lot the first time. My C2 has much more road feel than the Z had. I can't imagine how an AWD car would have better feel due to the drivetrain masking feedback, but I don't have any time in C4s either.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...84&article=748 Dated (but nice) article on the C4.