Upsolute chip-VERY DISSAPOINTED

I'm sure glad they have a 30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. I have a 2001 C2 tip. I had Fabspeed maxflow muffler and their headers put on along with Evo. Motorsports highflow K&N cone intake put in. I was told I would need to remap the chip to get any real gain out of those as well as the 20 hp & torgue the upsolute chip was suppose to produce. If you add up all the manufacturers advertised gains, I would get an extra 40-50 hp & torgue gain. Realistically I was hoping for an extra 30hp & torgue. I dealt with Lanny Richardson out of CA. He was great to deal with, gave me great instructions on removing the ecu and everything was done on time. Along with my ecu I sent to Lanny, I also included a flyer on all three of my mods along with a dyno sheet from each manufacturer. Lanny said the people that reprogram the chip in Austria are very familiar with most mods and take that all into account when reprogramming the chip. One thing I was very interested in what Lanny said was they up the max RPM to 7200. I was real happy about that because my tip (no matter if I'm in manual or auto mode)always shifts out of 1st at 6400 and all other gears between 6800-7000RPM. One thing most people may not know is whomever you go through in the US does none of the reprogramming. They just act as a middle man with Austria. They just send the current ecu info to Austria and download the reprogrammed info from Austria onto you ecu. THE RESULTS. I dynoed the car on 3/20/04, a hot afternoon at 3:50. My hp was 238.7 and torgue was 215.0. A little bit lower then WYO996 258hp and 219 torgue he did on his pre Evo. supercharger. I realize I have the extra loss of a tip transmission. We are both in CO at approx 5300-5500 feet. I got the chip back, put it in, started and warmed my car up, looking forward to 7200 RPM. 1st gear shifted at exactly the same point, 6400RPM, 2nd and 3rd shifted at exactly the same RPM points. I'm not a happy camper. I realize I have to have the car re-dynoed to see if there are any gains. I go back to the same dyno, same guy runs it on a cool morning at 10:18. My new post chipped 996 is 236.1 hp and torque is 215.9. We re-ran it 3 times with no real change. The operator printed my pre and post chipped dyno runs over each other. They look almost exactly the same, with the pre chip run a little higher over the whole RPM range. WHAT A MAJOR DISSAPOINTMENT. I'm now wondering if anything was reprogrammed since my car shifts at exactly the same low points, not at 7200 RPM. I will be contacting Lanny tomorrow. I'll probably have to re-send my ecu back, be without my car for another 5 days and redyno the car again to make sure it's least at where it was hp & torgue before I sent the ecu to upsolute. I always tell people, you never know how good a company is until you have a problem. I will now find out about Upsolute. I am so dissapointed, since I've heard nothing but great things about Upsolutes chips. I will now have spent 225.00 on dyno's. What a royal PIA. In my opinion, don't believe any manufactures claims of higher hp & torque with performance mods on a N/A 996. I spent $2,500 on Fabspeeds muffler/headers and EVO highflow intake. Don't waste your money on any of these mods unles you want a more agressive sounding car. I would still get the Fabspeed Maxflow muffler because of the great sound. Just don't expect and power gain. If you want real gains, I guess you should buy a TT or get the EVO or TPC supercharger. I've now spent 1/4 of what a S.C. would have cost, with zero power gains. This sucks. Ken

Sorry to hear about your saga, but one thing ... your shift points are not controled by the ECU but by a seperate transmission control unit

thats because you cant trust folks to "tune" stuff for you when they can't be there to tune your car on the dyno. sure, preprogramed maps will get you somewhere (and in this case nowhere) but the only way to get the highest possible gains is by tuning on the dyno (or road tuning some would argue) becasue you can see what timing/fuel changes affect hp when you run the dyno... i wish there were more dyno tuners out there for porsche - we have this stuff all over the place when i had my subaru. alot of that stuff is even programable yourself if you own a laptop

that's upsolutely dissapointing, should have gotten a giac- sorry couldn't resist.

Sound is the only reason I bought my exhaust... and I have serious doubts the even GIAC can give me the +18hp that they claim from just a chip. I'll wait till someone buys one and has before and after dyno sheets.

I have one with ngtmotorsport.com on my 02 996 and I'm very happy with.My trottle is much more responsive.

Ken, As I�m sure you�re aware, you cannot go buy three items that each claim some amount of HP or Torque gain, take the sum of those gains and come up with a net gain number. It just doesn�t work like that although some manufacturers would lead you to believe otherwise. I know very little about Porsche tiptronic transmissions; however, as MJones points out, most automatic transmissions are controlled by a separate controller. So, while your rev limit may indeed have been raised, there has been no change in your transmissions electronics and therefore no change in its programmed shift points. Can�t you put the transmission in manual mode and make it hold a gear until you want to shift? Even if someone has mapped a chip with your specific mods on another car, it is highly unlikely that the same programming will maximize your engine�s performance. There are too many variables like altitude, fuel quality, your engines timing, age and current state of tune not to mention quality of install. The short of it is that chip tuning is a science and the tuner needs multiple iterations on the exact car to maximize the numbers. Lastly, the specific combination of your mods may actually be hurting your engine�s performance. You could run it on the dyno with every combination of your performance mods to determine what is and what isn�t working � not very fun but well worth your time if you�re really after gains. Hank

Dont waste your money on chipping your car. Get a set of equal length headers and sport cats and a set of mufflers you like. For those people who think they can feel a better throttle response with a chipped NA car, its most likely b/c your wallet is $2500 lighter, and you dont want to admit to yourself that you spent money on a placebo. I talk from experience. I played with a ton of mods on my old C2. I tried all types of mufflers, sport cats and header combos. The biggest difference in seat of the pants performance was or is- BELIEVE IT OR NOT - equal length headers, sport cats, AND a straight thru pipe. Without the straight through pipe there was a NOTICEABLE decrease in power. Its loud but really the best bet. I know a ton of people on here have been saying that the car needs the back pressure, blah blah blah, but I can tell you from experience that the best exhaust combo with sport cats and equal length header is the straight through.

that ng site is strosek stuff, and upon speaking with them at that SEMA event in la, they confirmed they use the giac chip-

At Least from experience with the Unichip on my 996 and my VW GTI(MK1-1.8 16v swap with cis-e) if you plan to chip/reflash you gotta lean out fuel from 1-4k rpm and increase fuel from 4k on. From 4k on car is running more air and more air means more fuel is needed whereas from 1-4k there's no need to increase fuel or get a richer condition because not enough air to combust all the fuel thus performance is dramatically lowered from 1-4k so it's need to be lean- side effects smelly gas at idle and cruising speeds and total lack of throttle response. Now with my GTI it uses cis-e injection which basically runs same amount of fuel from 1 to redline-the bad thing is at higher rpms from 4k 16 v enignes runs alot of air so it's running lean so performance is not so great. So I ordered a hack type relay that connects to coolant temp sensor to throttle return and cheats the computer that air is running cooler so computer will increase more fuel. And boy after getting it installed very noticeable kick from 4k on(my hack is adjustable also so i can increase more fuel or lean it out). Everyone knows colder air makes for better performance. Kudos to the guy about automatics-it needs a tranny chip. I had a dinan chip plus tranny chip done on my ex BMW 525i to change the tranny shift points. Make sure whichever tuner you use 1-4k rpm-leaner condition is best option and richer condition from 4k on. Since you are pretty into the mod thing you may want to get the lite flywheel/clutch from EVO if you don't mind the chatter and drivetrain noise but rewards you with quicker revs and better throttle response. Regards and good luck. Mike

Thanks for all the replies. It's my fault this happened. I saw the dyno charts of these mods. It's a shame all manufacturers take one point on the chart that has the biggest gain and that's what they advertise. The dyno chart could be flat except one 20 hp blip, and that's what they say the gain is - not the average. I still can't believe I got a zero hp gain from the Upsolute chip. I guess I've only lost 1,400 for the Fabspeed headers and Evo intake, plus 225 for 3 dynos. I love the sound of the Fabspeed muffler. I would have kept those no matter what. Evo did tell me about there ecu upgrade when I spent 2,500 for the headers/muffler and intake. For 1,100 I didn't think a 18 hp & torque increase was worth it. Now it doesn't look so bad. I should have just waited until their S.C. came out. I do have the dyno runs printed out. I forgot to get the AFR's printed out. I'm going to go get those. I'm going to try and put another 100 miles on the car to see if there is any difference. My first gear use to shift close to 7,000 RPM before I went to the dealer for a transmission oil leak and a new battery. I wonder if putting the new battery in reset the transmission shift points. A learning process. Thanks for all your help. Ken

Having the Fabspeed cold air/equal length headers/exhaust did improve high rev performance (seamed "peaky" - this is on a 99 cab/manual). I think the low end suffered a little (maybe this is the back pressure issue mentioned elswhere). I have been looking for "chipping" or DME re-mapping info to optimize the "power curve" (I heard there are many programs already in the DME that might be usuable, including a ROW setting). So far I have found very mixed opinions on this - I guess the thing to do is find a place that can actually do the DME "tuning", which requires leaving the car - and additional $$$ I'm sure. I do not (and did not) expect big HP gains. 20 REAL HP would be great - but how there ponys are introduced is key (as Ken7358 found out).

There was an interesting article on dynos out this month in either Car & Driver or Road & Track(sorry I can't remember which). The article was written by Steve Dinan, and he basically says most of these tuner dynos are total rubbish. There are many sources of error, and it's very difficult to control for them. One might think that the dynos would at least be useful in doing a before and after mod comparison test, but Dinan explains why that's a fallacy as well. Apparently manufacturers tune their set-ups in such a way as to count on considerable and increasing frontal air pressure at speed to affect the air/fuel ratios. The small fan many tuner dynos put in front of the car to simulate this air pressure is pathetically inadequate. It really takes a huge, wind tunnel size fan to create this frontal air pressure and allow the tuning to be done properly (or you could do it on the road, I suppose, but then there would be other factors difficult to control for such as wind, grade, ambient temp.,etc.). All this just reinforces my opinion that on most current, normally aspirated cars playing with the ECU is a waste of time. Virtually none of these tuners have the ability to run realistic dynos.

Is there a chance your dealer reflashed your ECU when you brought the car in for service? Does the 996 software from Upsolute have anyway of preventing a dealer from using their PST2/3 to update your ECU?

I talked with a porsche shop (not dealer) on the DME (ECU) mapping issue. They had gone through many itterations on a boxter project car(Dyno/track - benchmark/mod/re-benchmark) and were able to get some "power curve" improvments with the REASONABLE increase hp of the mods. Again, I do not anticipate significant power increase - just utilizing the free-flow over a better curve (I have to think this is doable - isn't this a fundemantal concept??). I realize the 996 is "optimized" - but this is with US DOT regulations as well. They also mentioned the ROW setting - anyone herd of this DME mapping vs, the NA (also - I am at sea level, I hear there is also a high-elevation setting too).

Caf, I agree with you. Furthermore, just b/c you run a car once on a dyno doesn't mean anything. In order to get STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT results, you need to run enough dynos to give youa large enough sample set to eliminate the error rates. If you aren;t doing that, your basically proving NOTHING. But, this is how tuners make their money. Kind of like the supplement industry. The supplement industry doesnt have to prove anything in regards to what there products do. People just want to beleive, and for the most part these supplements are PLACEBOS. Basically a crock of sh*t. And Im sorry but i feel the same about tuners for NA cars. If you want a more agressive sound then sure, no problem do whatever you want to do to make your car sound good, but the thought that you would ever get 5%, 10%, or 20% more power from any mod is a pipe dream. Don't waste your money. If you want more power, buy a more powerful car. Period.

Turbos are capable of getting serious performance gains with ECU remapping because the boost pressure is raised. With a N/A engine, there is very little that ECU remapping can accomplish in the power department. You might see 3-5 HP from tweaking the timing, etc... I was reading on another board about one guy who got headers, exhaust, air intake, and ECU remap on his N/A 996 and he only got like 15-20 RWHP increase with everything. I would not condemn Upsolute so hastily. I have their chip in my Turbo and it greatly incresed the power (and raised boost from .7 bar to 1 bar). 1 year later I still have no problems.

the dealer just did the ROW reprogramming on my ecu, all I can say is wow, much more torque, better idle and it pulls better through to redline and like crazy in the variocam. Nice improvement for free

oh, I just found out I didn't get the ROW but they tuned my ecu as the mechanic used to work at a tuner previously!! My car seriously has more power than it ever has period!!! People have told me previously that my car was uncommonly fast compared to other 99 996's. It would slightly pull my friends stock c4s when I first got it when I had the turbo 18's with 7.5 fronts and 265's rear. I also ran a different c4s previous to that and it pulled it ever so slightly. When I put 295's in the back and my friend got the hollow spoke rims on his c4s he would pull me ever so slightly. NOW, it is rediculously faster. IT has substantially more torque at lower rpms and pulls extremely hard through the rpm. I am sooo stoked! The best way to put it is that when I got it back I drove it and was about to shift it at what I thought was the normal midthrottle pull at about 3.7k-4k, I looked down and it was barely past 2k!!! It idles better, runs cooler, and pulls like crazy!!!! No more mods for me

Sean, who is your mechanic? which Porsche dealership does he work in... this sounds like a great mod for free... even worth a few bucks...!! so the bigger rims and tires slowed you down eh? cheers Pete

As a 993 guy with Fabspeed Maxflows (bought for just the sound), it's funny that many of these tuners don't get sued because making claims and then no one really getting the same results is like an open door to a court room. If I spend $1200 on an exhaust expecting 15 or 20 horsepower I would be pretty angry if nothing changed.

I will ask if I can talk about my special deal. I doubt I will be allowed to unfortunately. What slowed the car down was going from 265's to 295. I now have 285's and it's faster than it has ever been period.

Sean, what rims are you using... the rim weights can also have a drastic effect on acceleration.... can any Porsche dealership do this? will they do it if I just send in my computer... have you dynoed the car for before and after results? thanks Pete

With the computer thing no, the mechanic was an ex tuner. I am quite familiar with the rims weights and acceleration hence why I said that when my friend switched his solid spokes out to hollow on his c4s it was a better race etc. I have bbs re's currently. I am already used to them. When I initially got them, I did notice a difference in acceration. However I mainly noticed a difference in unsprung weight and how much quicker the suspension reacts.

Hey Sean, how much do your bbs rims weigh?... are they forged....? I currently have the 17" rims with Bridgestone S02-A and the car is fast with them... faster than a comparable porsche with the solid 18" ... I'm looking to go 18" but want lighter weight.... can you post a side pic of your car... I'd love to see the rims.... as for chips... sounds like your really happy with your mod... how did the mechanic do it... did he tune it on a dyno or give you his own generic program? thx and regards, Peter

I guess the mechanic as he used to work for the tuner had a copy of the eeprom and loaded it via the porsche ps2 computer they have. I had to reset my radio code after btw. I have only some crappy pics I took in my garage of some stuff I have done lately, not including the porsche ssk http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/und...pr12/my_photos

here's a comparo of wieghts, the second number is their sum for ease of calculation for total unsprung wieght reduction Turbo Look I wheels: 7.5" x 18" = 24.91 lbs. 49.82 10" x 18" = 29.32 lbs. 58.64 108.48 18" Carrera wheels: 8" x 18" = 20.50 lbs.; 19; 38 10" x 18" = 22.70 lbs.; 23.6; 47.2 85.2; 23.28 Sport Classic II�s 18 by 7.5 = 22 18 by 10 = 28 BBS RE 8.5 x 18 = 20.8; 41.6 10 x 18 = 22; 44 85.6; 22.88 Einke TR03+M 8.5 x 18 = 19.4; 38.8 10 x 18 = 21.3; 42.6 81.4; 27.08

Note what mine wiegh and that they are 8.5 fronts not 8's-

Sorry to hear that. I had an Upsolute on my old Jetta (VR6). I wasn't expecting to feel much, but the 10hp or so it added made a definite difference. I would have gone GIAC, but Upsolute was the only local tuner. On my golf, i have an APR re-flash. I hear they are working on a vr6 version, but doubt they will ever touch N/a porsches, just the turbos.

those rims look good! I have a silver 996 and they would look good but so would the 5 spokes... I reallly like the alumnized 5-spokes on the 40th anniversary... but I haven't seen too many BBS like yours.... about the program... sounds like you got a good one.... maybe your porsche mechanic can send the file up to my porsche dealership and my guys can flash my ecu... I know the local guys up there and they would do this... this would be awesome! cheers Pete

You can see by my mods that I went piecemeal bit by bit to increase performance and was on the verge of a chip when I took the big ultimate leap of faith and went with the EVO SC. Now the car is fantastic, and the thrill of driving the same car with new power is just not the same as stepping into a new car with similar performance (i.e. turbo). But the SC is not for everyone, just us crazies. Will

You can see by my mods that I went piecemeal bit by bit to increase performance and was on the verge of a chip when I took the big ultimate leap of faith and went with the EVO SC. Now the car is fantastic, and the thrill of driving the same car with new power is just not the same as stepping into a new car with similar performance (i.e. turbo). But the SC is not for everyone, just us crazies. Will

apr is using giac soft btw and are only doing 996 turbo stuff lately

Sean, I am interested in your DME programming. Any chance you can send me your mechanics contact info? Do you have any info on what he used (if not ROW, was it an alternative Porsche mapping). I would like to try it on my 99 - thanks!!

Ken I live in Evergreen CO at 7k feet and own a 2001 C4 996. I too installed fabspeed mufflers/headers and cold air intake. and it seemed to run a little better in high end, but nothing mind blowing (sounds great though > I went to Autosportwerks in Broomfield when a tuner from a danish company called Sportec was in town. He tuned my ecu from his equipment and car had noticeable better throttle response and smoother idle. I would not venture to say it was 20 crank HP but now more fun to drive, He tuned with mods I had in place. Jim

Ken I live in Evergreen CO at 7k feet and own a 2001 C4 996. I too installed fabspeed mufflers/headers and cold air intake. and it seemed to run a little better in high end, but nothing mind blowing (sounds great though > I went to Autosportwerks in Broomfield when a tuner from a danish company called Sportec was in town. He tuned my ecu from his equipment and car had noticeable better throttle response and smoother idle. I would not venture to say it was 20 crank HP but now more fun to drive, He tuned with mods I had in place. Jim

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130021

Weissach - if that post had a link, its gone. Would like to see the article if you still have the link. thx