C2 Vs C4s

I have my eyes on a c2 due in 3 weeks or so--but I am starting to think the C4S will look better. Theres $12k+ difference? Has anyone thought the same way? I only drove the c2 a few times not the c4s but the widebody and brakes just looks meaner. Thanks Mike

As far as I know, the C4S is the 996 Turbo without the turbo (body, brakes, suspension, etc). You have to decide for yourself what to do with the $12k.

One thing to keep in mind is that the C4S has a lot more standard options. So, if you were to price out a C2, with the same equipment as the C4S, the price difference would not be $12K, it might be closer to $4K or $5K. My father recently went through this same process and decided to go with the C4S cabrio because he liked the looks much better, and wanted the options that come with the C4S.

I looked at both too, and settled for the C2. Remember it's significantly lighter, with the same horsepower as the C4S. I don't have to tell you what that translates into...

I was not in the market for a new Porsche (a liitle over the budget) but I was looking at 2 year old cars. I spent a morning at the Porsche dealer driving the C2 and C4 back to back. The C4 steering input was a little heavier and I felt provided a little more feedback. The steering on the C2 was very light. My personal preference was the C4. I also liked the idea of the 4 wheel drive. Gnaluzu is right - there are a lot more features that are standard on the C4S so the price differential is not that great.

I've driven both and find the 4S to be a heavier ride-- I think it's because of the all wheel drive, not the weight. The AWD give you a more secure, on a track like feel than does the RWD, which is nice, but also gives youa sense of a heavier, less agile car. Having said that, I love the look of the 4S. But all things considered, I'd take the 12g and pay down the C2. (That's what I did about 2 months ago when I bought my C-2 cab).

Grizzy, Are the different options that important to you? Does the C2 have the options you want? For 12k you can supercharge the c2, and open a can of whoop-*** on TTs.

Get the C4S. An unbelievable car.

With the C4S, you get the turbo AWD, suspension and brakes plus the widebody and full leather interior for looks. Well worth the extra cash if you have it IMO.

There is no TURBO with the C4S - Same 3.8 Six - more weight - I personally love the look of it - hard decision indeed.

Yeah--I think i'm gonna stick to my guns and take delivery--ha some nice options and I'll post pics in a couple weeks. In a few years though--IT WILL BE A TURBO!!!!! I have refrained from driving a turbo new/used just because I know my addiction limits--and I wont have any self-control Mike

Do a search on supercharger or EVO, and you'll see that for 11k installed you could beat a turbo...

I literally lost sleep when deciding recently. I gave up my 993 Silver Targa in a downturn and it was nagging me for some years. My dealer had a MY04 Silver Targa for a while, and offered me a great deal on it (Invoice + $500). My supportive wife told me to make sure I would be happy, and I then lost sleep wondering whether I should get the Anniversary edition (very nice package with a lot of options) or a C4S (especially like the look). At the end, I decided that with $10K more sticker plus $5K less discount plus tax, it just wasn't worth $17K extra. Mind you I have a family to support and some limits. Of course, I really wanted a Carrera GT, AND a Turbo Cab as a daily driver, but oh well.

translation: C2 is slower coming out of the corners... with more body roll and less powerful brakes resulting in slower lap times... Get the C4S!

Doesn't the C4S hold its value better?

You'll know which car you want (C2 or C4S) after you drive each, preferrably back-to-back. Nothing said on these pages matters. -DT

I concur with Dirk. I agree with all of the rationalization. I went through the same thing. C2 = less expensive, lighter weight, more pocket money, etc. C4S = wide body, all wheel drive, Big Red brakes, aerodynamics, full leather, PSM, etc. I decided finally after months of debate to get the C2. I went to the dealer, drove both and bought the C4S. For me personally, I fell in love with the wide body and loved the handling of the all wheel drive. I have not regretted my decision and both are great cars. You need to drive them to choose your weapon.

Both are excellent examples of the Porsche 911. Salient differences have already been mentioned. If you search the archives, there have been multiple debates on the subject matter. Arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can about the differences, then test drive them both to see which one actually grabs you. For me, I bought the 2002 C4S since it was the best performing NA 996 straight out of the box (no GT3 yet at that time). I also got it due to the relative value, as the total cost of the car was cheaper than if I loaded up a C2 to be equivalent. It also looked to be the most awesome model, with the front nostrils and the wide butt. After I bought the car, I got hooked on running on a race track. I've learned to appreciate the C4S choice even more, since it is so much easier to learn to drive fast.

Absolutely correct. But if track performance is high on your list of priorities, and you are willing to spend $$ for the C4S for that reason, then you should probably just stretch a little further and get the GT3. Then again, I guess this isn't a C4S v. GT3 thread is it?

I went through this exact dilemma and chose the C4s. The stock Porsche plastic interior is crap. So I would be ordering the leather interior with the C2. Add to it the other options and suddenly the price differences become minimal. Plus, I got the C4s for like $83K, below MSRP (about $5K). The residual on the C4s was higher than the C2, and right now, it'd be tough to find a C4s coupe, versus a C2. Visually, I like the widebody better, and for me, it offered the perfect list of amenities, features, and performance, so I went with the C4s. Had the GT3 been out, I would have probably gotten the GT3, because for me, the track part outweighs the street part. Even though, for some purists, the C2 is more track savvy. Oh well.

Please don't crucify me for asking. I have an excuse, I'm green. Is the 99' C4 considered a wide body? Dose it have the same body and suspension as a 99' Turbo? Also, other than the bump in engine displacement and available interior options, what are the major differences between a 99' C4 and a current C4 or C4S? Thanks.

The "S" versions are the widebody and also the turbo. The C4 is C2 (barrow body) with an AWD transmission. Between the 99's and current ones, I do not know the difference.

a C4 is AWD that the only difference from a C2 a C4S is awd has the turbo's wide body, brakes, psm, full leather interior and turbo wheels. guess you all ready know the differnence between engine in a 99 and the lader so I won't waste time.

C4S (widebody) came in MY02 w/the 3.6l motor. The 3.4l C4s don't have the turbo brakes, suspension, or the standard interior options (leather,etc.). They do have silver brakes instead of black like C2, silver model designation on the rear, and PSM standard.

Remember the C4s wheels (current) aren't hollow spoke like the Turbo's or the GT2.

I believe the GT2's 18x12 and 18x8.5 are solid like the C4S's. That is until the '04 GT2 model, when they were switched to GT3 style. -Scott

Thanks for the info guys. E

Hey Jyoteen, not to nit-pick but shouldn't your engine size be something like 3.596 as opposed to 3.600? Great color choice though... I'm not concerned with the non-hollow spokes as I wouldn't want to bend a wheel and I've heard some people with hollow spokes have done that.

just another reason the C4S in stock form rules!

If you get the C4S with the Techno II wheels, they are hollow spoke. It's about a 2k upgrade, so I got that without much thought on mine.

Whats the difference between the standard interior with plastic and the leather one? Where are the extra bits of leather?

, Ghost, we might have done this before... I'll take my driving skills, stock C2 and match them against you and your C4 in the corners.

To me, the most obvious one and appreciated one is the full leather dash. It's leather from corner to corner. Much better than the plastic basketball surface of standard. There is also the alcantara leather headliner, but I'm not sure whether this is standard or part of the leather option. ou can look at the full list at the Porsche web site. Titan, the C2 comes with the standard suspension, whereas the C4S comes standard with the sport suspension. Given equal drivers, the sport suspension will beat the standard suspension anytime on cornering. Add the advantage of AWD, and you'll see the definite cornering prowess of the C4S. If Ghost won't take you up on your challenge, I'll be happy to and bet a six pack beer on it

Mike, This is truly a very personal decision. You can see that the C4S owners are very enthusiastic about their cars. I drove a 996TT and the 40th Anniversary 911 back to back and I chose the latter. I felt lighter and more responsive in tight 2nd gear turns that I love. The turbo was not the car for me so I chose that 40th. You may want to look at this model if you can afford a C4S. It's the fastest NA Porsche model with a back seat! Enjoy your dilemma.

Has anyone seen track numbers between a C2 with M030 or x74 and a C4s? The C4s guys make a lot out of the slightly quicker track times of their cars. I'd do the same if I had decided to go w/the C4s instead of my C2. You've got think that Porsche would surely want the laptimes to turn out this way. I'm not saying the C4s doesn't have an advantage on some tracks, but the difference is so little as to be insignificant. I have a sneaking suspicion that the c2 sport suspension would tip the balance backwards. Personally, the more significant difference is the feel of the two cars. For me, I chose the C2 because of: - feel - light weight - I love the narrow body. RUF uses narrow bodies, so does the GT3. IMO, the harder core performance porsches have frequently been narrowbodies. - price had some bearing (I think the price difference was ~10k in my case). I'm surprised some people are so turned off by the base interior of the '02+ cars. I actually think the materials are fine. No, they aren't up to the spec of my previous S4, but I bought the car to drive it, not to pet the dashboard

Here are some tracktimes for C2s with different suspensions (I've got the 030 out in the garage taunting me. Anybody have Hockenheim numbers for the C4s? ======================= In a german magazin they had a comparison of a C2 with stock suspension vs. 030 vs. X74 on the track (Hockenheim) and on a 36m (100ft) Slalom: Hockenheim: 1:16.9 min stock 1:16.2 min 030 1:15.7 min X74 Speed Slalom: 123.0 km/h stock 126.1 km/h 030 127.2 km/h X74 Some comments of this mag on the X74: ' the 911 shows it's full potential...dynamics and fun grow eclatant...steering is on the point and with breathtaking precision...the back of the car grips the road....no body roll...' ===========================

The C2 with standard suspension can feel a little floaty at speed compared to the TT or my 964 with a Ruf suspension. Its still very solid though.

Palting, I'd take him up on the challenge, but I think you live closer to him than I do. Perhaps we should start a national C4S challenge series. You on the west coast, me central and Boston Mark on the east coast? Let me know what kind of beer he buys you... I should have some new track shots up shortly...

As mentioned earlier in this thread (and many times before), with all that comes standard on a C4S, the car starts to look like a bargain, if the C4S floats your boat. Compared to a similarly-optioned C2, that a lot of stuff for a few grand. I'm curious, with the 40th having X51 ($$), nat grey leather ($$), etc as standard goodies, how does the price of the car compare with ordering these options on a C2 a la carte? (OK, I admit, I did the math once for the C4S, again when considering X51 on my pre-GT3 C2, and now I'm too lazy to look this stuff up for the 40th.) Also, does the 40th have 030 suspension? Regards, -DT

A C2 optioned to the same level as the 40th would cost at least $9,000 more and that does not include the cost of custom paint. The 40th comes in GT silver which is unique to the GT, 40th Anniversary 911, and 50th Anniversary Boxster. You also cannot order the turbo nose on a narrow body 996. The 40th comes with a "sports suspension" according to the Porsche literature. I have asked several well respected Porsche tech editors for specifics on the suspension and I have come up empty. The best that I can come up with is that it probably has the M030 kit except for a different rear shock to make it a little more rear biased in the handling department. At the time of its initial production, the 40th was the only C2 that came with PSE and LSD. It truly is a unique model that combines special appearance features and performance to back it up. Don't get me wrong. I think that the C4S is a great vehicle. It's just not the right Porsche for my tastes. I am a big fan of AWD as you can see we have an Audi. Given the same hp and weight, an AWD race car has traction advantage on the track. This was very evident during the early Trans Am days when Audi campaigned a tube framed Audi 80 that literally drove circles around their competitors. AWD has been effectively banned from all major racing series except for the SCCA Pro World Challenge series where Audi has won the driver's championship two year in a row. That said, will a C4S be faster on the track? I suspect that it depends on the track and the driver. It's wide body will be a handicap on tracks where high top speeds are important. On the other hand, it's AWD will be an advantage on tight tracks with poor traction. It all doesn't matter on the street. Nice dilemma. You can't lose either way.

Thanks for the good info on the 40th. It sounded like a bargain, and it is. It also does look great in GT Silver (I just looked at one in Snottsdale, along with an Anniv Boxster that had just arrived). Great taste in cars, Eric. Cheers, -DT '03 C2, 030, lotsa-lthr, rockers, C18s, psm, spseats, etc etc etc... '02 A6 4.2 sport (wifey's) '03 Evo VIII (daily driver) a big diesel p/u and a lil ol Miata (yup, 3/5 of my cars are AWD)

Palting... I have the full supple Gray leather option and the overhead alcantara leather(didn't know that's what it was called) and it came with the full leather interior, including 3 spoke steering wheel...sweet. For fun sake... I would agree with you if both cars drove themselves or were driven by the same person, the results would be the same. But, that's not the case in real life racing, now is it. As in golf, "Iron Bryon" hits every shot then all driver clubs go fairly equal distances too. I've seen many a golfer buy the same technology as I have and I am 20-40yds past them, and I am playing from the tips. :P The car as, in the club are extensions of who's in control and their ability to make it dance under speed control, without fear. To each their own... But, I am a purist. I believe ball striking then technology makes the player, as does driving skills behind the wheel of technology. And, technology doesn't make the better driver, it's visa versa. When I see AWD dominating the racing world and the choice of the worlds best, then maybe I'll choose to trust in that direction. Until then, I be a purist. PS, where you located? If you know of a place where we can let it out, and I am not talking about a club track timed event day, I would consider dancing with no speed limits and it's got to be for more then liquid refreshments. Tires cost bucks

Ok I went for the 04 40th Anniversary model. For $5k more its has all the goodies and a turbo look nose--so almost a good combo of c2,c4s, and something a little different to the trained eye--I pick herup next week. Thanks everyone for their opinions and help. Ill post some pics Mike 40th 911 04 xc90 03 330ci

Sorry for the ignorance, but where's Bear Creek? I'm in the south of Cleveland Ohio area. Close by tracks are Mid-Ohio, Neslons Ledges, BeaveRun. I only do DE's and open lapping, 2 years worth so far. I don't bet anything more than a six pack, that way it stays fun and friendly . Unless you've done something to your car or you're a seasoned racer, I prefer Heineken . Grizzy, the 40th Anniversary edition are nice cars. Color and options? In case you didn't know, you have to post pics once you've taken delivery otherwise nobody will ever answer your posts again .

I put the C2 vs C4s question to Hurley Haywood while I was at PDE a couple of weeks ago. His take, for a short race the C2 would be faster but in a long race the C4S would prevail. His reasoning, the C2 would wear out the tires quicker with the RWD bias, while the C4S would preserve the tires longer. Keep in mind we were talking racing conditions not DE with street/R tires, but you could probably extrapolate this to DE. Another one of the well known instructors told me he would take the C2 as a racer hands down because there is less drag. Myself, I'm a C2 kind of guy while by brother has a C4S, both great cars. FWIW my brother was extremely impressed with the capabilities of the C2s at the track, it was his first time on the track (but not the last hehe), but he still prefers the C4S for daily driving (he lives in NY and drives 365 per year ).

With all due respect to Hurley, he's wrong. I've never seen Hurley race a stock C2 or a stock C4S. As far as those claiming "less drag" being a determining factor for choosing the C2 vs. the C4S perhaps they should view the GT3R's and GT3RS's that have extended fender wells to fit larger tires? I assume those in the know about racing have determined that the additional traction of the wider tires is worth more than the increased aerodynamic drag created by doing so....

Ghost rider, you seem to be implying that the C4s was designed as a performance model (..."I assume those in the know about racing..."). I'd look at it slightly differently: Porsche build the C4s framework (body, chassis, etc) to handle the demands of 400+hp in the Turbo. Then, they realize that they could sell this as a boutique model with a lower power motor, heavier wheels, etc, as they've done over the years with the "turbo look" cars. Also, I think we can all agree that, all else being equal, ~250-300lbs less weight, and less drag, are advantageous from a performance POV. If Porsche thought 320hp needed the traction afforded by the c4s (width, brakes, tires, etc), it would have built all of the cars to this spec. C2 included. Just my semi purist view of the whole thing. The C4s' sure are purty, tho.

I'm implying that all 911's are designed as "performance" models and that the performance of the C4S exceeds that of the C2. While it is true that the C4S is up to 276lbs heavier than the C2, the AWD, suspension, tire, etc, differences make up for the increased weight and miniscule drag differences. Certainly the C4S doesn't have to be a wide-body as the previous 996 C4 would attest to, so there must have been some reason for Porsche to abandon the C4 and move up to the C4S. And you're right, they do look rather striking...

I would wager that the "reason" was that Porsche could make more money on it. You can still buy the C4 in Europe. The C4s is the only (c4 coupe) model here (in the states) because we're more focused on fashion I realize the C4s squeaks out a quicker lap than the stock-suspended C2. Nobody has shown me the Hockenheim times for the C4s -- I'd love to compare them to the C2 w/one of the "real" suspensions. I'll take Paul Frere's opinion regarding whether the C4s is about fashion or function. He seems to be on the side of "fashion" on this one. (see "911 story"). I think they are wonderful cars -- they all are. IMO the C2 and the C4s just appeal to slightly different groups of Porsche enthusiasts.

I can't imagine a C2 or C4S NOT appealing to a 996 enthusiast! They're both incredible sports cars, and the difference really isn't that great. You want different, compare a Z06 vs Viper, Boxster to a Z4, etc. But this same ol' thread is always fun! Cheers, -DT

Porsche gives the same 0-60 and top speed times for the 3.4l C4 as the C2. They give a tad bit slower times for the 3.6l C4S and C2s. I still love the way the 4S looks though.

Nice turn of a phrase, Stiles. Unfortunately, it is intentionally degrading and unintentionally wrong, heh-heh-heh . It is like saying the TT is the wimpy version of the GT2, or that the true 996 is the GT3 and all the other 996's including your C2 are only for "fashion" and for marketing to the masses. I guess it is simply "fashionable" to have the sport suspension, stiiffer chassis and better brakes, none of which are in the C4 nor C2 but are in the C4S. And AWD not only makes it easier for mere mortals like me to drive it faster than RWD on curving roads, it is such an unfair advantage to racers that AWD is banned in some pro races. I guess if fashionable means performance upgrades, then the C4S is quite fashionable. These threads are always fun. But c'mon, guys. Porsche is about performance, and there are different models to give different levels. In stock form, the C2 is the 996 base, the C4, C4S, GT3-TT, GT2 are progressive upgrades.

But the GT3 IS the only true 996! (kidding...KIDDING!) Now if I could just find one of those "boutique boys" that HAD to have a GT3 only to find out that it is a real, hard-edged jar-your-teeth tail-waggin' performance machine (boo-hoo), so I can trade them my soft, squidgy C2 and take their GT3 off their hands! (No really, I've heard that there are many undeserving GT3 owners out there that don't like their cars.) Chee-yahs, -DT

Two replies in a row...I'm on a roll. Palting is right, it is arrogant to generalize that a C2 is equal to a C4S. The C4S has better suspension, better tire/wheel combination, PSM, and a host of luxury goodies not found on a C2, not to mention AWD, the root of so much philisophical debate. That's why it costs so much more. To compare apples'n'apples, you have to look at a C2 with M030 suspension, C18's or T18's, and PSM. Whether you choose to fluff up your C2 with full leather, etc like a C4S is your biz. The RWD vs AWD debate will go on forever, but all else being equal, I'm surprised not to hear more comparison between C2 and C4S (BRB) braking performance (C2 lighter, less car to haul down, C4S undoubtedly less fade, blah blah blah). But there's no question that a stock C4S will stomp a stock C2. -DT

Porsche markets C4S's to turbo want a be's (nothing derogatory meant) that won't or can't spend the extra bucks. What's more important to see is this is why Porsche makes money... They didn't have to retool their dies, yet came out with another product line to offer capitalists wrapped in supply & demand. This is great too.

TitanL9, I would change your statement to "People who buy C4S's are turbo-don't-want-a-be's". I specifically bought the C4S because I didn't want the turbos. I like my cars like I like my wine, naturally aspirated. Now at some point in the future I might change my mind and decide I want turbos for some reason, but for now I bought the C4S because I didn't want them. I also didn't want a couple of holes in the side of my car and prefer the more graceful looks of the C4S, but that might change with the 997 restyle... Now can't we all just agree that the only TRUE 911 is a 356????

I understand Ghost... But, you have to admit, there are limits to everyone's wallet and the difference between a C4S and the Turbo is substantial. That being the case, I bet if most C4S owners could afford a Turbo, they'd be driving one. I could easily afford either a C4S or C2, and chose a C2. Just couldn't justify the cost difference for a new Turbo after buying a new home and joining a CC. For me, my 03 C2 996 is as "true" a 911 as it gets... it's made by Porsche and I bought it new. Also, I think I am going to add a supercharger later this year, if all the reports come back solid. Then, with some minor mod's, Turbo's will be dust.

I'm kind of drifting off topic here, but this is why I lust after a GT3. I DON'T LIKE TURBO's. I don't like the looks, I don't like the AWD, I don't like the weight, and I don't like the non-linear acceleration. I'd buy a GT3 tomorrow if I wouldn't get reamed on the value of my high-option '03 C2. -DT

Arrogant that someone would choose a C2 over a C4s? Not at all. I did... The *only* thing that made me think twice was the fact that the resale value of the C4s is sure to be better. As for the performance arguments: * "better suspension"? probably, but I think most enthusiast C2 owners will go rowM030 (I am), and then I think there's a real argument to be made. Stock/stock in the US without options, I agree. * "better wheel/tire combo"? Huh? I don't understand this. Are you saying I should have 11" rears w/315s and 30lb wheels on my C2? No thanks. * "AWD"? yes, there's an interesting debate to have here. I think it's most interesting to be had between C2 and C4. Note that my other cars are an S4 and a WRX. I love AWD -- I just don't want it in my sports car. IMHO, the following are not performance enhancements: - wide body - big red brakes (ducking) -- would my 3000lb c2 perform better with them? will their added weight be offset by significantly better braking distances? - full leather - big, wide, solid spoke wheels - 315mm rear tires remember, the C4 was rated the "best handling car in the world" by a US mag a few years ago. It didn't "need" wider rear tires... The rest of your arguments are about the up-contenting of the C4s compared to the C2: things like PSM, leather, etc, not about the performance nature of the car. I'll happily agree that a similary optioned C2 is within a stones throw cost-wise of the C4s, and that the C4s is a great "deal", especially given the stronger resale. The only thing I have trouble stomaching is that people think the design priority of the C4s was/is performance. It's "turbo look", pure and simple. It's milking the Turbo widebody/look for some additional profit. Oh, and "stock C4s will 'stomp' a stock c2"? Show me. It's also a great car, by the way

I really cannot see a C4 taking a C2 0 - 60 or 0 - 100. I get consistent 4.7s or so on G-Tech with my C2 and it is not like their is a huge issue with wheel spin. Sure, I can spin the wheels messing around, but I can get a consistent great launch without unecessary wheel spin. I just don't see traction being an issue with 320 hp 0 - 60 or 0 - 100. Now twistees may be a different story, but I can kind of like the way 2 wheel drive feels in turns.

You've mis-interpreted my point, guys. I said "arrogant to generalize". A BASE C2 simply lacks the performance potential of the BASE C4S (perhaps I should have used the term "base" instead of "stock"). Remember, a base C2 has 17" wheels and no rigid suspension. The base C4S is better-equipped in this respect, and it WILL handle better. To reply to my chosen term of "stomp" with 0-60 times is like talking to a teenager about cars. Neither the C2 or C4S is about drag racing, guys. Buy a Z06 or some other POS if that's what it's about for you. And I made no "argument" about upcontenting - I said that's your biz if you choose to do so. And bigger brakes ARE better. Period. Too bad they're not an option on the C2. The point I was making is that it would be foolish to think that a BASE C2 is every bit the car a BASE C4S is. As for a comparison of a SIMILARLY-EQUIPPED C2 and C4S, you're preaching to the choir, here. I do have a 3.6L C2 w/ M030, C-18's, PSM, and enough other goodies to make it more expensive than most C4S's you'll come across. FOR ME, this was an easy choice after driving a C2 and C4S back-to-back. As for aftermarket suspension, wheels, brakes, superchargers, etc, well we're not really comparing anything that Porsche sells, are we? There would be no end to that debate. I will say that down the road, aftermarket mods de-value the car. History proves this. Great if you plan to keep your car until you die, otherwise throwing money away. Me, I see myself driving a speed yellow 999 in about 10 years!! Cheers, -DT

Wow! I'm learning so much from you guys. As a newbie I didn't realize that there was so much debate about 2wd vs. 4wd. I always thought the 4wd was an upgrade in performance. Especially since our cars aren't all about straight line speed. Someone mentioned earlier that if you wanted a drag car go get a "Z06 or some other POS". If this is the general sentiment, that are cars are all about handling than why wouldn't the awd be an advantage? I have the GT3 seats which reduces the weight on my 99' C4 to come close to the C2. All of you are talking about the wide body C4S. Now my question is how dose the older 3.4L C4 with a reduction in weight from the GT3 seats compare to the same year stock (base model) C2 performance wise? Also how dose the resale value of the C4 (not the C4S) compare to a same model year C2?

The most important thing to learn is that we're all basically full of ****! How's that G35? Damn good looking car. Cheers, Dirk

I absolutely LOVE my G35. I'ts my daily driver and SOOOO much fun!!! Here she is.

When are you gonna wash that thing?

Before I bought the G I swore I wasn't going to buy YET ANOTHER black car but I fell in love with the color. Yes its a pain to keep clean but I don't regret my choice. As you can see above I went for the other end of the spectrum with the 99' C4. OK enough about the G. I want to get back to the topic in my earlier post in the thread. C4 (non S version) vs. C2. E

With all this debate about wannabe cars, I just realized something. The GT3 is simply a GT2 wannabe that lacks the power, has a couple of engine parts missing, simillar aero treatment, deleted the rear seat even though there is the exact same space for it just just like the GT2 to claim it's only a 2 seater not a 2x2 and therefore a real sports car. Even the name comes real close. The GT3 is a GT2 wannabe! I've just had a revelation!!!! WAIT, wait. I gotta get my flame suit on before the next reply.

Why stop there? Isn't the GT2 a GT1 wanna-be??? I mean the GT2 is simply the poor man's GT1 isn't it? I mean people who want to pretend they have a real performance car go with the GT2, instead of ponying up for the GT1. I wonder if that makes the Boxster S the poor man's Carrera GT?

With respect to comparing C4 and C2 performance, this depends on your definition. Your comment "If it's all about handling then why wouldn't AWD be an advantage?" kind of hits the nail on the head for this never-ending debate. No-one denies that the C4's AWD provides increased traction over the C2. If this is your idea of performance, there's your answer. If your idea of performance means increased steering feel and classic 911 handling characteristics, at the expense of some traction, there ya go. My definition of performance is whatever gives me the greatest driving satisfaction. You can't attach numbers to that one. With respect to weight, when you start talking aftermarket, in this case MUCH lighter seats, things get really convoluted, as you'd have to assume that the C2 guy's gonna install the same seats if you want to compare apples-to-apples. Anyone can carve weight out of a factory car. But I get your point; eliminate the weight argument and then which is better. Ughh. Gotta get out of this thread now. -DT

Considering the relative performance characteristics of a Corvette Z06 v. a Porsche 911 (C2, C4s, doesn't matter)you probably shouldn't be lumping the Corvette Z06 into the category of "drag racer" or "POS." Better examples would be Camaro SS, Mustang GT, or Dodge Viper. Wait a second, I guess Dodge Vipers can go around corners, and they don't make Camaros any longer. So what can we all refer to now as the paradigm for American style junk that goes fast in a straight line but doesn't handle for..........? Is it possible that these stereotypes are becoming a bit dated?

You're right. Vette's aren't POS's anymore. Apologies to all you bowtie fans. And I had a Viper GTS, and it did go around corners, too. Still a POS, just like the 'Vette (oops, did I say that out loud again?). OK, Camaro, then. -DT

After all this, it appears we agree. How boring The final point I think is worth highlighting is the big-brake one. I'd be interested in seeing whether a nicely set-up C2 would run lap times faster with the stock or "big" brakes. Logic tells me bigger is better, but bigger also comes with unsprung weight implications. That said, if the GT3 comes with it (bigger brakes), it must be good , although the GT3's performance envelope is at a level higher than the C2s, IMO.

I understand that 911s are not all about 0 - 60, but how many people would actually buy them at these prices if it was a 7 second 0 - 60 car. I think accelleration is more of a factor than people like to admit. On the same hand, how many 911 owners actually drive to the limits enough that 2wd or 4wd would really make a difference. I may be in the minority, but I drive my car at 10/10s in acceleration a heck of a lot more than I drive it 10/10 or even 8/10s in turns. That being said, I would have bought a C4s if I didn't buy a TT, but who could not like this rear end . . .

I'm no expert, but assuming the BRB's are noticeably heavier than stock brakes (w/o the swanky red paint like on my Evo VIII P-car wanna-be), wouldn't this difference pale in comparison to an even smaller weight difference in wheels (again, talking Porsche, i.e. Sport Classic, Sport Design, Turbo II, Carrera, Sport-Techno-can't-have-it-on-a-C2-but-we'll-put-em-on-your-Cayenne), what with all that evil spinning mass combined with unsprung weight? Anyone? Anyone? -DT