I don't know

Maybe it's just me, or the mood I'm in today. My feeling is, if people keep "using" this board but never joining, eventually it's going away. Instead of answeing any "user" we tell thjem to join, maybe we'll get more members instead of free loaders. JMHO. David

join mean register--or join mean pay? im the former not the latter (at least yet) Mike

before your answer i was more then willing to join, but if this is the attitude i'm sure you'll find less people joining...

join, meaning pay. Sharp, I have a feeling you never were going to join and pay. There is always a small percentage of people that will use any sevice but not pay their share. It's sad but true. Sharp, if you can"t afford it after buying your 02 Porsche, if you really own one, we all understand.

heh, this is what i meant by funny: you first scare of newbies... potential members, and if that hasn't "helped" the forum enough you accuse them of not owning a 996, i guess i'm a twisted mind with nothing better to do but waste your time by asking how to remove the rear seats from my imaginary car...

"you first scare of newbies"? I'm sorry, you're right. "waist". It must be your girlfriends car?

Oh,I'm wrong again. I did some checking, you don't like girls.

thanks for the proof read! so technical info in addition to editing, awesome! not to mention insight to ones sexual preference you are funny

I don't know if I am in the minority here, but I think that is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. WOW. And to put it in this forum...why not, "off topic"? WHat happened to having a group of people who just want to talk share their knowledge. I guess there is a price on everything these days. I am sorry. I am not out there making 100K or 20K for that matter. I am a student and I love to spend time on here. Sorry if that is a crime by not paying. I appreciate everyone who pays for this board to keep it open and its the biggest forum I have seen. I help manage one myself, and its really sad you think like that. The forum a few guys and I made has little to do w/ money and everything to do w/ freindships, teaching people, and just spreading our love and knowledge.

You are in the minority.

My sentiments exactly!

At the risk of joining a fray I should just duck, I think overall there is a lot of friendly help and encouragement on this board, especially for newbies even when they don't have a p-car and just want one. Yes, I would like anyone who uses the board to join (pay), but those who bug me would be the guys who have been registered a long time and have a lot of posts but still haven't paid. It only took me a day after discovering the board to want to join (and pay) because I realized this is a place I would like to be. Let's keep this friendly and civil!

Thanks for thinking that way. I didn't know this was such a problem though. As a student, money is tight as it is. Sure, I would pay but right now it wouldn't do me much good. The day I ever buy one, I will join.

Bauer Ignorant?!? Sure talk is cheap, but this board did not spring into being from out of nothing. It takes a lot of work/time to keep this board running. Perhaps you think that the software/code/servers etc are free? No, it is not a "crime," just very selfish. It is unfortunate that you feel that you can not pay the VERY small fee, but even so, why should others contribute for your benefit? Good! Perhaps you can offer up some pro bono work to John? I mean just so you can help in... Dude, rich or poor, freeloading is not cool. Chris BTW I HAVE paid my fee under another username.

I'm certainy not spoiled. Cranky, maybe. I'll defer to you. I just get tired of the "users" who never join and carry their weight. I'll shut up now, and won't renew my membership. When everybody is a "user" this board will no longer exist.

I am sorry you guys feel that way. I see it as a worst crime to own a P car and then use the boards w/o paying. But not even. But I have nothing else to say really. Chris...The costs are high and the costs for this site must be HUGE to run. No excuse to behave like that though. Kind of childish. You call me selfish? Funny...I was thinking the same of you two.

Really, I have seen nothing but freindliness here until today. I am surprised you all think like this.

it's not the guys who have a couple dozen posts that make me wonder, it's the guys with...like...500, and are still users! what's up with that?

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif

Someone does something worse, and you get a free ride? Strange logic, but the norm for self-justification. No doubt you sleep well at night. And pointing out boorish behavior is not childish. Cheers, Chris

Overall, I think we can agree that this is petty. Mind your own Business. If you paid; good for you. Keep yourself focused on your own needs. If you didn't pay, you always have the option too. And if you recieve a lot of help on here, I would pay personally. But as I said, I don't even own one. And the day I do is the day I gladly help fund the site. But the point of an MB is to help people. Stop focusing on the money.

Some of us paid and didn't bother to have Rennlist Member added to our signature. It's just not important to me. How can you be so sure who paid and who hasn't?

Some people like to try before they buy. I don't see any thing wrong with that.

I give those guys full marks. Because in the end it shouldn't matter if you have that tag or not. It shouldn't matter if you have 2000 posts or 10. It should be about sharing the love and knowledge of cars. LOL, just my thoughts. Let me add, that I have nothng against people who haven't paid and certainly people who have paid. In the end, you all seem like a great bunch. Lets just stop this negative crap. New members is Never a bad thing...unless they start trouble. But thats a whole different ball game.

Being a paid member in Rennlist is purely voluntary, and that's how I think it should be. Thats how this whole thing started. This is a public forum. There are a few "perks" that are available only to members, and that is also as it should be. There will be people who post forever and never become a member. There will also be people who will get an answer to one nagging question, and become a member to show their gratitude. There are a variety of people here. Each one can hold their own opinion of the other people. Non-members should remain free to post as often as they wish for free, but they should also understand that some people will consider them "free-loaders". Some people will welcome them with open arms. It's a free country, and Rennlist is a free public forum. IMHO, as always.

This thread inspired me. The presentation was a bit harsh, but the message, in my view, was basically correct. I just paid!!!!

I have benefited so much from this board that I paid for my membership w/o other people nagging at me. The friendly people who answer my questions despise my "user" status was what made me WANT to pay my share to keep this board around. I guess what I am trying to say is that most of the people I've met on here is friendly and helpful. If we stop being that way to the "users", then the "users" will never become "members". We're all here because we love porsches. isn't that enough reason to be hanging around here. (However, I do agree that users needs to be reminded once in a while that it takes $$$ to run this board, just not by ignoring them.) Peter

I'm with Rob on this one, I had a few hundred posts before I became a member (like 300 something) and I had totally forgotten about paying the $18.00 or whatever until someone PMed me and KINDLY mentioned that I should become a member and I sent the membership fee right then and there. There's nothing wrong with starting off as a user on rennlist and not paying immediately, but when you start to reap the benefits of this community and are on here often, $18 is really minute considering you get a free uploader that support remote linking, a decal, membership card, etc. And to those who say "money is tight", that's a **** poor excuse considering you own a computer and are paying for internet access to sit on here and cry to us about it. Can we also please stop making these crap "join or you're the lowest scum of the earth" posts too? If you want to mention to someone that they should become a member in a reply to a thread or through PM then so be it, but this is such a waste of bandwith to sit here and call each other freeloaders and other stupid names.

AMEN

sombody please! I need a hug this discussion is making me sad i luv u all paid unpaid both or neither

This post shamed me... I'm going to pay again! Some boards have a limit on the number of post before you have to pay to join, maybe that should happen here, but it's not the case. And if John gives people the option to pay then those users are working within the guidelines setup up by the administrator and there's nothing wrong with it. I bet some people don't even realize you can support the forum by registering. I paid as soon as I could because it was huge tax write-off for me, oh wait that was my C4S... seriously, I paid because I appreciate all the hard work it takes to keep a forum like this alive and I really don't want to see go the way of the dodo. Peace, Rob

Case in point-- I had no idea that the appropriate protocol was to pay. (I never bothered to think about who/what pays for the site-- shows you how clueless I am. ) Maybe at your 25th post (pick a number) there should be an automatic prompt-e-mail that politely reminds you that supporting the board by joining as a member is a nice idea.

Here's an offer to the Porsche afficionado - starving student who loves this forum, but can't afford to join: come over and wash / vac my car and I'll buy your 1-yr Rennlist membership! (I live approximately midway between San Francisco & San Jose).

See that's funny... I'll make the same offer to anyone in the NYC/NJ area.

Do we get a free ride home??

Hey I payed but my status on this board is still user since I registered before I payed. So David don't hate by what is on their avtar. Yes, I think this board should be free for thoes that can 't afford it, but paying member should have more privleges. Something like paying member could be the ones that can veiw new post and the rest has to wait 2 days.

Honestly, I think most can afford 20 bucks (is that it?) a year. But at the same time, I don't think you should be hasseled into paying until you recieve info helping you. Which will pretty much come w/ a few posts. I mean, one can sign up and look in archieve and find everything they need. But This is an MB. The main point of any MB is to spread info and interact. I think a dedicated server at the least costs around 150 a month. This place is so big, I can't imagaine what price it is for them. That shouldn't really be the point though. I find it sad that SOME look at that little label under peoples names to see whether they should help them or not. Personally (in the MBs I visit), I look at the question. I know 99% of you don't judge people like the topic starter does, so I am not trying to accuse anything.

No problem, Croton is nice this time of year...

Well - Here's my perspective: I joined a while ago and I haven't used the board much until lately. I didn't even know about paying - except someone told me you need to pay to use the Classified section - that's all I ever heard. 20 bucks a year is nothing, but I object to people like "Davidmichael" who automatically assume that anyone who has not paid is a freeloader. So Mr. Davidmichael - Here's some advice for you - You win more support with being nice, rather than being insulting, like I'm being with you right now. Doesn't feel good, does it? Makes you want to retaliate, doesn't it? Here's an approach that would work for me: "Hey, for you folks out there: This board could really use your support if you haven't paid the membership fee. Please consider paying the $20 membership and it'll help to keep a great board like this alive." If I had seen a message like that, I would have paid immediately. But since I feel unnecessarily insulted, I'm going to wait for an apology. - Bill

Freedom of choice. So far this board has operated on the basis of allowing people to join if they want. If the board operators decide to change rules, then everyone will make their own choices. I am not up to 500 posts, so I don't qualify as an a$$hole. But this thread is total waste of space, davidmichaelostapbendermariajose you got your $18 worth of fame. my 2 cents

It took me two weeks on Rennlist and ten posts before I realized how invaluable this community is. As Jim, Zamirz and others have said, it's the guys who have been on here forever and have a ton of posts that make me think, "Cheapskate." We drive (or want) Porsches. This is not the Yugo board where we use twine and baling wire to hold our rusting pieces of crap together. Membership is a measly $18. I know college is tough on the wallet, but, come on, $18? The original post, however harsh the tone, was correct in worrying about whether Rennlist would or could continue without adequate member or site sponsorship. If John D and Jen decided that the time and money put into this endeavor was taking away from their quality of life and wanted to shut Rennlist down because they were tired of putting their own money in, tired of people not paying, etc., would we then all be sorry that we hadn't paid? Many people feel the internet is "free" but those who think this way seem to forget that someone has to pay for the infrastructure and maintenance for all of this "free" stuff. You know you love this place. Show how much you love it!

Interesting. I think over 2000 paid members would strongly disagree with you. Better add me to your little list.

I used the board first before I paid. I am not sure if my signature has changed from user, I have to look at this post. While I agree we should pay for the service, I think personal attacks are childish. If you feel so strongly that non-paying members should be banished, make it a policy. If you feel that this board needs more financial support, send more money. There is also another side to this. I am sure that from time to time a non-paying user of this board has posted a question or response that paying members have found useful. Isn't that the idea? Just my 1 3/4 cents worth.

Pretty good point. Lets just stop the hate as well!!

I am a firm believer in paying for services I receive value from ie information or help. With this in mind I didn't need someone to tell me to join, I did it on my own and did it for two years. Who knows I might not even have a PCar in 2 years but I know what it takes to run such a site and AUD$50 will not make or brake me. At the same time though it should be upto the individual to decide their desire to become a paying member. I am sure most people who have a desire to help the board will become a registered paying member. As most of us are members of a number of boards, I can also appreciate where DavidMichael is coming from - mind you don't agree with his approach . I am a paying member on 2 boards, the other is renntech.org. Both boards have given me invaluable information and saved me a few $$$ too. At the same time it is interesting to see the situation of another large board where users were non contributing up until recently and they are now asking for donations. When I joined the board, my first question was what does membership cost and where can I pay? Why? Because I found valuable info on the site that I used and benefited from. It just shows you that one day rennlist might be in a similar situation it members don't become paying users. My AUD$0.03 (conversion rate is becoming a killer again )

still waiting on my hug I am sure that it would be nice for the board if more cash was flowing in...but i wonder if it really matters? I would love to here from those responsible for the $$upkeep$$ and management of this board to see if unpaid users adversly affect this board? Is the board close to closing for financial reasons or are valuable upgrades lacking b/c people aren't coughing up the bucks?? If this were the case I bet one well worded message from administrators would get the bucks flying in. My guess is the value of there content contribution outweighs the lack of there fuduciary contribution. Don't forget guys paying...for now...is voluntary not manditory