1999 996 C2 tiptronic - braking with the accelerator - not good...

I have a 1999 911 (996) Carrera 2 Cabriolet tiptronic... I am 6'6" tall and wear a size 13/14 shoe! After two unexplainable accidents in my car each involving me ramming the car in front, for no reason, I decided to look into the problem.... While braking slightly harder than normal braking, the top of my shoe hits the accelerator... the harder I brake the more the accelerator works against the ABS... as the tiptronic has no clutch the car will only stop if the brake is released and re-applied or when you hit something in front! I contacted Porsche, they said on three occasions that they knew of the problem but in 2000 they had modified the car to disable the accelerator when braking!!!! They now deny saying that they knew of this problem... and that the cut out was for development reasons...?? I am applying to anyone who may have any information regarding this issue or any way of making these people listen to a genuine problem with severe safety implications... my dealer says he can't help me!?

Show up in person, the dealer may change his mind...........with the prospect of a size 14 wingtip up his behind...... Seriously, if what you say is true, they have a safety design flaw. Get a lawyer and sue the bastards..........

Pushing the brake pedal will cut the throttle after a little while, yes. But if throttle is applied AFTER the brakes have been activated, the e-gas won't get in the way and the accelerator will do its job. (This is why e-gas doesn't interfere with heel-and-toe) In Helimad's case, the brakes are applied first, THEN comes the throttle. So both will try to do their job, exactly as designed. No safety design flaw here, no reason to sue anyone. If someone tries to accelerate while under braking, the car shouldn't take the blame. Helimad, you probably should get used to put your foot towards to left side of the brake pedal so that your shoe doesn't hit the throttle. Since there's no clutch pedal, this should be pretty easy. Hope this helps! Greetings, --Pierre

Pierre.. as I am so tall my right leg must go to the side of the steering wheel.. it's the top of the foot that causes the problem, towards the heel (at an angle).. this is my 3rd Porsche and the 996 pedals are closer than the rest... I've never had a problem before! is the e-gas to do with the fly-by-wire that they speak of? Gretch... sounds good! been back to dealer, he simply says I act on Porsches instructions! buy a 2000 with the new cut-out... however, after reading Pierre's comments the new system may do the same thing! If I understand it correctly...

helimad, would a smaller steering-wheel help? If so, Techart and other tuners have some very nice items. Mine is 34cm (vs 37.5 for the stock one), and it made a huge difference. --Pierre

Pierre.. I'll have a look at the Techart goodies... The idea of a smaller steering wheel sounds great.. as mine is a tiptronic, it sounds like a very expensive option thanks for the link from the other thread, god knows how I managed to post twice...

Not sure I agree that this is not a design flaw. The heel and toe function is legit for a manual transmission, but not so for an automatic. The E-gas function should be designed for the specific transmission application. That having been said, trading up to a newer model is prolly the most pragmatic idea.

Have you considered the console delete option, a little more room for the leg to swing.. Left foot braking maybe?

I don't think this a safety problem. Its your feet placement problem. it is hard to blame a company for your size and placement when braking.

-- but in 2000 they had modified the car to disable the accelerator when braking ----- MY99 did not have e-gas. MY00 had e-gas and most likely PAG added this feature.

the upgrade option is the best option, but I fail to see that it is for me to pay for... Jetskied... this is my 3rd porsche, my 2nd 911 never had a problem before... as Porsche admitted (at first) that they knew of the problem... surely they should warn tall drivers that they are likelly to crash!? I have also had other experienced drivers sit in the car and the same thing is sometimes replicated.... I am no expert but as I understand (from Porsche direct) the 2000 model has an electronic cut out while braking... This IS a safety issue! I can't tell you what it's like to skid for ages into whatever is in front of you... and Porsche know of the problem!!!!??? I agree it is my size that is the major part of the problem.. but that must mean I will find more people in the same position as me... if they survived!!!! MJ . Left foot braking sounds scary! I'll look at the consol idea but I doubt that I will be doing anything to this car as I hope it will reach it's way onto the BBC Watchdog show soon... PLEASE KEEP THE COMMENTS COMMING!

Sorry, but I really don't see any problem with the design. On a car with no e-gas (which I think is the case of the early 996), applying the throttle while pushing the brakes will of course have some effect. With no e-gas, the car has no way to avoid that. On a car with e-gas, things will work the way I described above (at least I tried to). The car will cut the throttle a very short while after the brake pedal gets in action. But re-applying the throttle while still under braking is allowed and will have some effect. Here, the car is assuming the driver knows what he's doing. helimad's 996 being an early one, it probably isn't fitted with e-gas. So the behaviour as described by helimad is absolutely logical. Besides that, since the throttle gets re-applying while under braking, a car with e-gas would show the exact same behaviour. So switching a a newer 996 won't solve the issue. The only way to solve it is to apply brakes for braking and throttle for accelerating. Applying brakes AND throttle won't help much if the driver's intention is to brake. I mean... when one wants to turn right, one turns the steering-wheel to the right, correct? (well, usually, it's the way it goes...) Turning it to the left at this point won't be interpreted by the car as a mistake, and the car will change direction. Or should the car notice that, and don't let the wheel turn to the left? Greetings, --Pierre PS: helimad, stay away from the Maserati 3200GT!... The pedals are even closer...

Pierre, you either work for Porsche or you are missing my point... I do know what I am doing... my size dictates where my legs and feet are positioned.. I do not want to press the accelerator... If you were my size driving my car you would scare yourself! I accept what you say about the newer model not being any better for me.. why do the OPC tell me an upgrade will solve the possibility of this happening again though?

Helimad, It sounds like a disproportion that may be alleviated with different shoes. While my Porsche doesn't cause my size 12's to be a problem, I have two other cars that I can only drive with closely fitted shoes with thin soles. My usual street shoes or Nikes are unusable. Don't want to be too obtuse if you've tried that solution. I once passed up a Lotus turbo Espirit in part because I had to take my shoes off to drive it (and hated the peaky 4 cyl turbo). You could consider trimming the gas pedal. Did this problem occur with thick-soled shoes? I ask because I'm a little surprised you couldn't feel the interference of the gas pedal. AS

helimad, I think I got your point. I think the OPC heard about e-gas, but didn't really get the full picture (that re-applying throttle will have some effect). But you know, you probably should try it by yourself. Alexander has a point: have you tried using other shoes? There are now a bunch of driving shoes that are usable as street shoes too. And there are even a few threads on Rennlist about them: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=120229 https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=101349 Greetings, --Pierre PS: no, I don't work for Porsche... Not even remotely.

Thanks guys.. some shoes are better than others.. yes.. the thicker soled shoes are worse... I can't feel the gas pedal cos it's not the sole of my shoe that touches, it's the side.. I've done nearly 10k in the car.. normal braking is fine, but just push that little bit harder and the top/side of my shoe just clips the gas pedal... brake harder still, you crash... Pierre.. You could be right about the OPC getting the facts wrong on the e-gas front.. The same applies for PCGB though, as they told me of the cut-out in the 2000 model before the dealer did? as you say I need to try it for myself... H

In view of the above, I'd grab a rotary cutter and trim 1cm off the left-hand edge- maybe more at the top and less at the bottom. Everyone is enthusiatic about aftermarket pedals that make the throttle pedal bigger for throttle-blipping. Sounds like yours needs to be smaller, and now. AS

Hey Helimad - I have you beat. I'm 6'6" with size 15 shoes and a '99 996 with Tiptronic, like you. I don't have any problems, and here's why: I rest the heel of my right foot behind the brake. My foot is cocked sideways when it is on the accelerator (and that is comfortable for me). When I brake, I merely rotate my foot to press the brake - My heel does not move (it's a pivot point). I never have any problems. I have driven all of my cars this way. - Bill

Helimad, If you have a tip, you can easily learn how to left foot brake. It takes a little practice (and a few violent stops) but it's not so hard. Either that or modify your foot position while driving as Bill says. You only have 2 other options - one is to try to get narrower shoes (have you looked into driving shoes that you can keep in the car?), and the other is to get a different car. People are unable to buy the car they want all the time due to their physical attributes and it may just be that the 996 is not a car that you can drive. C.

Bill.. had a look, my heel is as far over to the left as it can go, it does sit behind the brake pedal... and the top of the shoe touches the gas in extreme braking... due to the angle I will take a look at other shoes.. the only option it seems is to cut away some of the accelerator - which leads back to design floor! why are these pedals closer than previous 911 models?

on the PCGB forums people are starting to come forward that are experiencing the same problem as well.

please keep the comments coming!

i'm 6'4 with 15 wide feet and i don't have any problems. i've noticed a few times that i hit the edge of the gas pedal when i braked hard, but that's just because i wasn't paying attention or had my foot in the wrong spot. i think it's just a foot placement problem. i have a 6 spd, not a tip, and i'm not sure if the distance between the pedals is different on the two cars. one thing though, i wouldn't say that putting your heel as far to the left as possible will help. i think that'll actually make the situation worse. if you put it to the left, and brake with the ball of your foot, that puts the toe of your shoe right where the top of the gas pedal is. put your foot farther to the right, then the toe of your shoe goes harmlessly above the gas pedal and the ball of your foot rests squarely on the pedal.