help, new 996 question

The boat finally arrived and we put 800 miles on the 40th this weekend. We've gotten to the point of placing the car in turns all wrong to see what the dynamics are like. Important to us as we're coming from the BMW school of understeer design not to mention the fact the 996 is very different than the '87 Carrera we had until '95. On long sweepers this car is slippery. While we don't lose it, all feedback shuts down and it just does not feel like its going to stay connected. Unless the PSM is very subtle I don't believe we're anywhere close to a point where it would cut in (no lights flashing). To back the car out this morning I placed my hand on the Pirelli rosso's. Black greasy stuff all over my hand. Just happened that our 530 has about 800 miles on a new set of GS-D3's. Rubbed my hand on them, nothing other than powdered rubber. Anyone have a clue what's going on? With 800 miles on the tires, they should be broken in.

I'm not sure what's going on with your tires, but I will make one comment about the handling of the car. The cars as imported to the US are higher off the ground due to DOT bumper height requirements. This has a significant effect upon the way the car handles vs cars that are referred to as ROW(Rest of World). That is why so many people change out the shocks/springs/sway bars to get back to the way the cars were built to handle. I felt that my '02 was very "floaty" at high speeds with the stock suspension. After changing to the X74 suspension, the handling has improved dramatically.

What were you running for tire pressures? The factory recommended spec is way, way too high for track use. Try running it at 40 PSI **HOT** all around, see if handling improves.... Let us know! vty, --Dennis

Dennis, Isn't factory recommended pressure for the 18inch wheels, 36lb front and 44lb rear? If so, if factory pressures are too high, why do you recommend 40lb in front (higher than factory)?

Could the dealer have put tire black not only on the sidewalls but also gotten some onto the tread? Were the front tires the same? Also check tire pressures "cold" to see what the dealer set them at. Most people here don't run standard factory recommended pressures (do a search here for a gazillion threads on this topic) choosing something lower. I run my C4S at F32 R40

When I first read your post I discarded it. Since I was not pushing the car beyond what should be its limits I could not imagine it was the "standard" handling of a 996 with a "sport" suspension package. The 40th comes with a varient of the MO30 package. I just returned from a discussion with a former DE instructor. After I described the feeling, with no hesitation he pointed at the suspension set-up we get in the US. The car enters a zone that is so neutral I lost a connection with what was going on. I'm surprized there are not more comments on these boards from people moving through several generations of 911's. We discussed what to do about it and his only alternative is take 2" off ride height -- totally unacceptable to me. So its time to start educating myself.

Just as an FYI, the X74 dropped the car 1 1/2 " in the rear and 1" in the front. It doesn't sound like much, but it really is. In addition, the set also comes with new sway bars. It would probably be worth while to try to find someone local with the set-up, or something similiar, and go for a ride.

This doesn't sound right to me. My car feels absolutely planted in high speed corners, much more so than my previous e46 M3. The 996 will feel much more isolated from the road versus your '87 Carrera. This makes it more comfortable during day to day driving but at the price of less feedback in the twisties. I would check your alignment as it would not be unheardof to get a new car with out of spec alignment. Assuming your tires are in good condition, the Pirelli's are a very good set and should not be responsible for your poor handling. PSM is subtle, but you can feel it. Take your car to an autocross and you will feel it kick in without worrying about crashing into something hard.

the pirelli rossos will get greasy when cycled. the black residue is common with those. they were the worst track tires i've tried thus far but they lasted 19k miles! the stock us spec suspension is also to blame. it's floppy and causes the car to wonder at speed. lots of intentional understeer is dialed in to keep the ham-fisted from over-driving the car and getting in trouble. the row m030 should be considered minimum spec for the capabilities of this car. as suggested, the x74 is the way to go.

The US 030 C2s at PDE felt great, albeit not as tight as my RoW 030, but very planted. Might be your tires.

Can an x74 suspension be retrofit to a '99 996?And if so- would it be Gert to talk to : ). Regards. Mike

I appreciate the feedback and will welcome any additional comments. There appear to be several explanations: 1) Me. We had the car 3 days/800 miles when we started exploring the dynamics. On the other hand, no feel is no feel. There's an autocross this Sunday and having called it quits years ago, I guess I have to go buy another helmet. Looking back to when we put too much rear sway in our 530, there was a dead zone there as well. Same place, long sweepers. Maybe I've gotten too used to plowing into turns to recognize competence. 2) Tires. Pressures were right. Tires get good reviews. Neither the car nor the tires were close to their respective limits. 3) Alignment will be checked. The car is not scrubbing off any speed, just feels like its floating on air but holding an intentionally poorly selected line. 4) Suspension. The 996 is too different than the '87 Carrera or our BMW's to draw any meaninful comparisions. So in the absense of any comparisons, the 40th, with its MO30 varient, is a bit looser than I or my wife had anticipated. Neither my wife nor I race but we push and have had plenty of years living in Switzerland/Germany/Italy to understand vehicle dynamics on interesting roads. No rush into this but willing to spend a few bucks for the sake of confidence. 5) DE: To do a reset, I intentionally pulled the apex closer and did no throttle steering. I was waiting for the car to express its discontent in whatever manner it chose. Instead I entered this disconnected floating zone. Public roads are no place to develop our relationship with a 345hp/3000lbs car so it may be time for DE. No need to rush into anything. Time will tell.

I have been through 1.5 sets of Rossos and never had any black residue issues. At the track, the Rossos actually get quite sticky and perform better than my S-03s (in the dry). Black "residue" on new tires sounds like tire dressing/gel in the wrong place. Perhaps the dealer went prep nuts! Are all the tires this way? It could be a defective compound issue... While the US stock setup is geared towards comfort, it is still a capable performer. Yes, it floats more and steering input must be more deliberate, but your tires are suspect IMHO.

The X74 is not available for the '99 996 according to the Carnewal website. But there are a number of options available. Go to Carnewal.com and look in the suspension area. If you send a note to Gert ([email removed]) he is extremely helpful and responds fairly quickly. Just remember that he is on the other side of the pond - about 8 hours ahead of the west coast.

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