996 Love

A few "tools" on the 993 board send their love..... https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...996-owner.html

I could only read 5 posts... Sure, some people have NO idea what the hell they're driving beyond the label. How that became "I hate the 996" is beyond me. Envy is funny like that.

Uh oh - I think I might have said some hurtful things on that thread!

You don't have to go far to confirm what was said in that post. Just look how many threads there are in this forum regarding blingtastic crap on someone's 996. I would also throw out that the vast majority of 996 c2 owners don't have the basics of being fast in the rear engine platform. I am not saying anyone specific, but as an HPDE instructor Ray I bet you'd agree. Like the e46 m3 these cars are getting cheap and it's attracting a very different persona now compared to the 993.

lets starts a "I met a dumb 993 owner the never heard of water before" thread

Generalizing about 996 owners is foolish, just as it would be about any other model. I wouldn't pretend to know enough 911 owners of any year to make the kind of sweeping generalizations some of the 993 guys did in that thread. It's ridiculous. My approx. 15 Porsche friends are very knowledgeable about their respective models (early 911, 944, 928, 964, 993, 996, 997, Boxster, Cayman). And I still wouldn't make any sweeping conclusions good or bad about any one of the models. I'm confident they wouldn't either. Bob

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The hate comes from insecurity, I'm sure.

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It's not so much about confirming that some people out there that don't know much about their 996s, it's the way the 993ers jumped on the "if it uses coolant, its owner is retarded" bandwagon. Kinda insulting to the water-cooled P-car owners who KNOW what a 993 is. I remember in high school, we went up against the team from three towns over. "We really hate these guys," went one of my teammates. "Why?" I asked. "Because we just do, it's been that way since my dad was in school."

Who really cares whether the 'air' cooled owners dislike 'water' cooled Porsches, it's just forum talk....Porsche owners have been comparing and discounting 'their' Porsches since the 356 evolved into the 911. They shunned the 944,928, etc bacause it was different, just like the current water cooled 911s. If you like your Porsche that shouldn't be a valid reason to trash other models or years...but who really cares? Beacause I enjoy my current Porsche so much, it means very little when others bash my 996.Go figure.

What they're complaining about are the people who buy Porsche for status, and what they're forgetting is the people in 996s and 997s for status now are the same people who used to drive a 993 for status.

What I don't get is the Toyota Camry comparisons. I've driven stock 993s and they're not optimized for the track out of the box. So often times the 993 owners are comparing a modified 993 against a stock 996. Add the performance exhaust and better suspension and aside from the sound of the air-cooled fan and the smell of oil - the two cars are more similar that most would like to admit. I was definitely surprised when I heard the M96 engine for the first time and how close it sounds to the 964 block that the 993 uses. I'm a big fan of the 993 but each car has its own purpose - depending on its use determines which is best.

This thread will go on my ignore list. Nothing good comes from it.

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Bingo. Making fun of someone buying a status car to feel superior by claiming that your more expensive car is superior makes me chuckle.

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Agreed, I just don't get those threads....I would not dignify it with a post.

In before the lock.

insecurity and definatly lack of nurturing.

the funny thing is.... in the real world, when you bump into a 993 owner (or any model owner) at a get together, noone talks sh*t like that. Everyone is happy cause they are among brothers. They could only talk like that in forums... shows what kind of person they are.

Interesting read... I don't understand the hostility and the "we-are-better-than-them" attitude... There are as many 996/997s in my neighborhood as there are 993s (I have to admit, I'm unsophisticated enough that all those air-cooled Pcars are 993s to me...) and we all wave to each other on the road... a common interest in Porsche cars are enough to solicit and return a smile and a wave... Oh well... I guess that's why they segregate the sub-forums... Rudy

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You nailed it. I don't get it either. I've never met a 993 owner that disparages 996s, but they appear to love to do so here at RL. Threads like that just make them look ignorant and insecure through broad-brush generalizations that could be made about any group of people.

forum affiliation breeds contempt for other forums in general, and certainly a superior performing vehicle will breed competition from the slower, yet better looking (imho at least exterior) sibling.

Well, on a much brighter note, I was reading other websites and other forums about the new CAFE requirements coming to us in the next few years. You say that is bad? No, I say it is very good news. Particularly for the unloved, oft-insulted, beleaguered (sp?) 996 owner, of which I am very happily one. We have been spit on by the narrow Porsche generation of aircooled 911 owners. I say narrow, not narrow minded, because when you look at total Porsche sales since the introduction of the 924 and 928 in the mid-70's (now over 30 years past), watercooled Porsche production/sales collectively far outstripped aircooled production/sales in any given year. So the aircooled 911 folks are really a minority around here. Let them cry foul. THEY were the ones left to rot by the factory, not us. But back to my point about the CAFE thing, the internet responses all blame the Liberals and such for this and that. I couldn't care less. The DIAMOND that I see here for all of us on the 996 Forum is that the common concensus of opinion on the internet is that folks won't buy the new lighter cars that are short on power. They want HP cars in the future, too. So the common response is they are going to buy those V8's and such now because their only choice going forward in a few years will be USED CARS. That is where my mind has wandered off, and I said to myself, "Self. I own one of those HP cars now. No point to hurry on down to the dealership, when if I hang in there a bit longer (and I will) the folks that are bringing us the 39 MPG CAFE requirement for new cars, will deliver us to a future of high demand, and thus high resale prices, for used performance cars (of which we will be part)." My own take on the 993 vs 996 crap is that I have owned at least one of every generation 911 since the beginning, several 356's before that, and a 951, along the way, and in every case, I valued the newer technology and engineering (see, I even like the 997 guys), but the bottom line is that watercooled engines make cabin heat and airconditioning a WHOLE LOT BETTER than aircooled cars. And today's 997S makes about a hundred more normally aspirated horsepower than any 993 I ever owned. But, for financial reasons I remain in my 996 (I have had 4 996's so I know what I like), and in a few years, the USED Gen II 997's will make a fine and substantial upgrade at a fraction of the original price. Ferrucio Lamborghini had a famous quote about why his cars have such restricted rear visibility, "Because, what is behind you does not matter." I think that applies nicely to the 993 crowd.

I feel bad for them....I guess they will never own anything beyong '97

I think that the ignorance of the owner that the OP referred to is b/c these are newer cars. Of course you're more likely to know about your car when ur buying what is essentially a classic car. I'm sure the same could be said for old Mustangs, Chargers, etc. Maybe one day when they no loner make water cooled cars, we will be just as crotchety.

I think I might just link to that thread the next time someone asks why drivers of certain models don't bother waving.

1) You ever drove your 911 across NC via I-40 in one day at an avg speed over 90 in August? There answer is no..because you couldn't. The damn thing would seize about Greensboro. 2) Does your air conditioning actually work? Or does it just blow tepid air around? 3) If you get stuck in a traffic jam, what do you do? Turn the car off and push it? Dang sure can't sit and let it idle for 20-30 minutes.

I drove a 993 when I had my 951 with various suspension mods, chip to match turbo and exhaust mods, and was very underwhelmed... When I bought my 996 C4S, it was with intent of not getting rid of it for anything but a 997tt. Recently I considered adding 951 or 993 to the stable, then took my car out and asked "but why?"

Things have settled down over there, we should do the same and stop feeling like victims. We have to try and take the high road as we are obviously more enligthened. Our cars aren't as pretty, but they are better in every metric and they know that. They are outgunned performance wise so they play the classic card. They were out of line claiming that 996 owners are ignorant, and I think they realize that. Fact is, the 993 is a classic piece if machinery in a way that the 996 may never be and that's undeniably part of the attraction. I drove one recently while looking for my next car. It was disappointing. I knew if I threw enough Euros at it it would be a decent car, but why the hell would I when there's MkII 996 available at wholesale prices? Plus which - I'm daily driving baby and there's no one can claim their 993 is better than a 996 at that game.

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I had 993 in my head for the past few years until these prices convinced me that the 996 was the bargain of the decade. So maybe an air-cooled will be a toy in my future but for now my car is exactly what I was looking for in a daily-driver.

I think it's like how girls get bitchy when a new girl shows up and starts getting all the attention. They feel insecure and inferior about their slow, impractical cars, so they make fun of ours having water, or different headlights, or doors that don't go "thunk". 996ers don't make fun of 993s much. We don't care about their cars because we are happy with our own and don't feel threatened in any way by them.

I have to say i saw a 993T the other day on the way to work and damn it was beautiful. Really got the blood going.

I've been a member of a major BMW motorcycle enthusiast group and internet forum for a number of years. It's a pretty civil place, but you get the same kind of "my model is better than your model" debates there, as you do here, from time to time, and some folks get pretty emotional. The debates get even hotter when the discussions move to comparisons with other brands, particularly Harleys, and Harley riders. As in selecting a Porsche, choosing the "best" bike involves figuring out what you really want, what you are really going to be doing with it, that's within your budget.

Honestly, the whole thing is way too nerdy, and that's what should be expected from what has become over time a community of dyed-in-the-wool classic car guys. Let's face it, love them as we may, the late great type 993s are 15 model years old, which is silly for regular use or more than the occasional HSR, but great for collecting! But if you actually need to drive a car regularly, I mean get the newest one you can comfortably afford man, and get on with your life!