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YOUR RESEARCHunable to start with full of smoke. please help!!
Leading reported evidence
Replace alternator
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Which they injured when they replaced the alternator.
Leading evidence: 'Replace alternator' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check codes' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
the mechanic will know the answer just by checking codes, which he should have done first -
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Suggestion
My AOS went 1 week after replacing all the wheel nuts.....
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Suggestion
I kept thinking...what is around/near the alternator that would create a "no start no run" issue.
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Suggestion
Three things needed to make an engine run: air, spark and fuel.
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Suggestion
I'd like to think my bachelor's degree in Psychology (well it was actually pre-law, but they forced you to pick a major in an actual subject) was put to good use here.
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Hi guys,
Being a proud owner of my 1999 996 for over 8 years until recently so many problems came up.
To make the story short. I towed to a local mechanic due to a start-up problem. The shop replaced the alternator, things were normal until 15 kms of driving back home. I restarted the car and immediately the car stalled. Tried restarting it for a few more times until i hear a loud pop. Then a pedestrian came over telling me 6ft tall of smoke just came from the engine. I immediately stopped starting and had it towed to the same shop.
The mechanic told me it's unrelated to the alternator replacement but seems odd as it was 30 mins after I pick up the car and impossible to me that they are not related.
Anyone had the same experience and willing to help!! So frustrated.
Thank you guys!!
The smoke sounds like an AOS (Air Oil Separator) going bad. Normally that doesn't keep the car from starting, though, as I understand it. AOS would not be related to the alternator. Usually, an alternator wouldn't cause the engine to smoke unless there was a problem with the alternator drive belt (maybe it was rubbing on something) or the alternator seized up. But, that would not cause smoke to come from the tailpipe - just the engine bay.
Any check engine light on the dash lit up?
Thanks for your reply kcattorney!
The shop still checking out the problem. I wasn't able to confirm if the smoke was from the engine bay or the exhaust as by the time i got out of the car, the smoke was gone. I only see tiny bit of smoke when i pop the rear trunk.
When i was at the shop, we weren't able to startup the car after 10 trials. Then once every 10 tries the car was able to start but stalled after 1 sec. So i can't confirm if engine light is on or not.
Three things needed to make an engine run: air, spark and fuel. Since the engine is turning over but not starting you have either a fuel problem or spark problem. I would lean towards the spark problem first. They did the alternator...did they do anything else? Check the engine ground connector and the the two main wiring connectors in the engine bay. Can they scan the car for any codes? Maybe it threw one (or more). From what you describe it sounds like the engine did a major backfire. That could result from unburned fuel ending up in the exhaust, thus saying it might have something to do with no spark. I can't see where alternator replacement would end up causing a secondary problem like this, unless they left something undone.
The behavior could be related to the alternator replacement.
But you should give the shop the benefit of the doubt.
A few possible related things would require the shop be rather lousy.
I do not know the shop you have selected but I assume you did your home work and it is a reputable shop well experienced with these cars.
For the behavior I could like a number of things: AOS but not necessarily at the top of my list (although first here); serpentine belt failure due to a bad belt, improper routing, or something seized (like the alternator); alternator failure (new ones are not immune to failure).
You have the car at the shop. Let the shop investigate and make the diagnosis.
Remember sometimes a coincidence is just a coincidence so don't assume the trouble 30 minutes after you picked up the car was related to the work the shop did.
But without being accusatory ask some questions about what went wrong. Take notes so you do not have to rely upon your memory. Ask for the old parts, unless it was say the new alternator in which case since this will be covered by some warranty you won't get back. Notes are important for in these situations, in seeking further/deeper understanding of what happened, details are important.
9.9 times out of 10 when you have something go wrong just after fixing your car is has something to do with what you touched. But that's just my opinion.
DBJoe's analysis sounds very good to me. This is where I would start.
Good luck!
consider the fact that the alternator issue and smoking issue could be COINCIDENCES!!
My AOS went 1 week after replacing all the wheel nuts..... the new wheel nuts didn't cause the AOS to go.
AOS or other items in an old car could fail at anytime.
the mechanic will know the answer just by checking codes, which he should have done first -
Sounds like the oil fill tube was injured during the alternator replacement.. This is easy to do with the old plastic tube that sits right next to the alternator.
If this happens the engine gains a crankcase vacuum leak and will induce AOS symptoms....... It will also add fuel trim, which, washes cylinders down and also induces smoke.
OR the AOS just had a timely death. The last guy that touches something ALWAYS gets the blame, whether its his fault, or Murphys.... Thats when it sucks to be in this business.
It appears they ripped you off with another alternator. I believe in calling a 'spade a spade'. The car is still acting the same as when you took it in there first off. I think old school. IF and I stress IF the car was in the old school, we would say that the timing was out for it to be coughing and spluttering and cutting out and not even firing up. DBJoe has the right idea. (Air, spark, and fuel) If the garage you took it to doesn't know that fact then they ripped you off big time. Cut your losses and get it to someone who knows where to look to solve the problem. I would not give the garage any 'benefit of the doubt' in a case where it cost me for a new alternator and installation fees and the problem still remained.
Problem resolved!!!
A million thanks to all folks out here!! Things would be much worse without comments from all of you!!!
Turns out to be the oil fill tube. Though the shop insists it's not related to the alternator replacement, they managed to waive the labour, only charging me the cost of the tow truck.
I still remain my thoughts that it's not a coincidence
... Which they injured when they replaced the alternator. Some of those tubes and connectors seem to be pretty fragile at this age. I suppose the right thing to do was to waive labor. Still it would be nice for them to accept responsibly even if the part failed due to fragility.
Is there another mechanic that you can go to going forward?
You nailed it Jake! Wow. I kept thinking...what is around/near the alternator that would create a "no start no run" issue. I didn't think of the oil filler pipe and that it would create a total no run issue. When mine got cracked it basically made the engine run like crap but it still started and ran. They must have split that thing wide open. Anyway, good call.
As always, you experience and wisdom is greatly appreciated. Thanks for helping us out.
.... and he nails it once again! Awesome Jake!
I'm sure the indy is thanking you for diagnosing it for him. Otherwise, he would have spent hours on end trying to figure it out.
Glad that I was able to help. Guess how I knew that? It wasn't knowledge gained in a classroom, it was from making a mistake and having to rectify it. Its first hand knowledge, and goes without appreciation these days.
Yep, and someone just posted this on another thread here:
Ahem, I believe that
I was the first
person to point out that the smoke was probably AOS related. Obviously, that steered Jake in the right direction to think "What could create AOS symptoms," and my expert analysis clearly led Jake down the path to the correct diagnosis. I'd like to think my bachelor's degree in Psychology (well it was actually pre-law, but they forced you to pick a major in an actual subject) was put to good use here. Jake - you're welcome. Let me know if you need a Navy guy's help again in diagnosing anything else around your shop.
Whats amazing is there are still members on this forum who actually doubt JR's motives and knowledge. What they don't realize is that if you do a job all day, every day, after awhile the answers come easily and you can practically diagnose something in minutes (or seconds) with the right info.
This applies to all kinds of fields of work, whether its lawyering, mechanics, policing, whatever. Common sense is amazing. Thanks for still being here!
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