New to this board & about to purchase 996 - need advice

what a great forum.... thanks in advance for any advice. I have been hoping to purchase a Porsche 911 for some time now, but budget has been an issue. I did not want to purchase a skinned-down 2004 model if I could find what I want in a low mileage 2003 for a lot less money. I recently located a car at a dealer that fits my options preferences AND budget, but it is apparently a "dealer car" or "program car". The dealer said that they purchased it from Porsche and that it has never been registered. The car has 5500 miles on it. 2003 Arctic Silver/Black Leather Coupe Sport Seats BOSE Heated Seats Sport Suspension PSE PSM 18 Turbo wheels $60k +TTL This seems like the deal of a lifetime, as the car stickered for about $82k. However, I am nervous. I have never purchased a pre-owned car, let alone a pre-owned car that is $60k. So here are my questions: 1) how sensitive is this engine to break-in? to be conservative, I am assuming that there was no break-in observed...should this be of concern? 2) Assuming people test drove the hell out of the car, or some dealer executive took it home and ragged it around - what is the worst damage that could be done? Can the car be "hurt" in 5500 miles? 3) Is it fair to ask the dealer to certify the car for original warranty since it has never been registered? What about a service dept. diagnostic and provide me the report to show rev-limit history, etc.? Service history report? The car arrives at the local dealer here next week. Obviously I will drive it and inspect it closely, but I am more worried about what I cant see. I really want this car and it has all the options I want but cant afford new!!! Thanks again for the help

Price, with the options you mentioned, sounds good for a 2003 car. Check for any body damages. #3 sounds like the way to go, they should be able to provide you with the diagnostics and service history report (if it ever went into a Porsche service dept.)

After seeing this post I started to look around. It is amazing how these cars are depreciating. A lot of low mileage cars ('02, '03) for less than 69k. maybe my dream of a C4S with sport seats and spor exhaust for 60K is not that far away. Still 60k for a 2003 looks like a good deal.

Just got some more details.... this car was used for the Porsche Driving Experience .... I think that is going to kill the deal for me - I would think those cars are driven very very hard.... He said the car has been updated to "new" condition with new brakes, rotors, wear indicators, tires, and windshield... Too bad - the deal seemed a little too sweet to be true...

Do not despair... do a search in Autotrader.com for cars under 65k (surely can come down some more after negotiation). There is a good pool of cars to choose from.

I wouldn't be put off by the thought of it neing driven too hard. It's only done 5.5k and these cars are almost always driven hard. Mine has been driven hard since I got it and its done 35k. I think you have a really good deal there. Especially that they are willing to put the car back to its showroom condition. I doubt you will find a used one in similar condition by the sounds of things for that price. And if you do get a used one, how do you know that wans't driven hard. Just go for it.

yeah I would not worry too much about the fact that it was used in PDE - just pretend it was used by a bad novice driver who couldn't drive the car hard if his/her life depended on it. chances are you will be trading in less than 5 years. drive her hard and save up then get a 998!!

I agree with scouser wouldn't count it totaly out either: 1)I have never done a PDE but from what I read on this board the cars are not perhaps pushed as hard as one might think...it seems from my reading that they are more driver skill based than "driver kill car based" 2)If the dealer will give you the balance of the original warranty (and see if you can negotiate an extension to cover the 5500) You basically have a new car! It have read time and time again on this board about how these cars love to be tracked and tracked hard. If they can guarantee that the car never hit a wall in a PDE and it looks and checks out great I say buy it!

I wouldn't stay away from PDE cars either. They gone thru the gauntlet of beaking in and engine has gone thru the whole spectrum to redline rather then some private owner never gone past 4k rpm and from what I heard they are maintained very well from PDE. Regards and good luck. Mike

ya keep searching, heck i got my 03 Cab with 700 miles and many options for 65 from a Porsche Dealer

Though many people swear that PDE cars are very well maintained and that that makes them superior to most dealer cars, it sound like you'll probably move on. But I do have a couple of suggestions: You'll get a better 60k car used than new. At a dealer or with a private seller, get a PPI done from a good independent in your area to be sure of "what you can't see." If it's from the dealer, I wouldn't be as interested in him reinstating the original warranty as I would in a 100k certified car, certification to begin when the factory warranty runs out, for the obvious reason that it will extend the warranty life 2 years (to 100k) the factory. If it were me I'd be less interested in a dealer car (for the reasons you mention) and in a lease car (same reason) than I would be in a car that's been driven by a member of PCA or Rennlist, i.e., people who respect the car. Good luck. J

great advice Joe W.....know anyone have a 2003 996 w/ low miles they want to sell? :-) seriously though, i have not finalized this decision quite yet...will go see the car at the dealer on Monday. what makes this so tough is the price and options. PSM, PSE, Bose, M030, 18s, heated seats, rocker panels, brand new tires, brake rotors, pads, etc....thats a lot of options for a 5500mile car at $60k. I am thinking I can probably get him to go down even lower to $59k or $58k on the car and throw in extra warranty to cover the 5500 miles. (he wont certify the car to 100k...we already talked about that). I am not usually one to take this kind of a risk, but its gonna be a tough call...

Personally I wouldn't touch a PDE car with a ten foot pole. You need to ask yourself how many drivers learned to heal and toe in that 5500 miles. How many missed shifts, how many mechanical over-revs, how many feet of threshold braking. One mile on the track equals many miles on the road. I don't care how well they maintained them. I change my oil after every race weekend, the tranny oil several times a summer. I change pads constantly, bleed the brakes more than most fill up with gas, etc. etc. In short, I over maintain my car. That certainly doesn't make it a car you would want to buy for anything other than a race car. Just my opinion. Jim

I'd stay away. Lots of drivers learning heel-toe technique for the first time. 5000 miles on the track is NOT equal to 5000 miles on the road. Even those of us who drive aggressively accumulate the majority of our miles at less than 5/10'ths I'd guess. Cars used in these programs are driven at 8-10/10 all the time, every day.

Just saw Jim B's post after posting mine--pretty much same line of thinking.

yeah maybe i am trying to rationalize so i can afford all those cool options! i know people say it is dumb to ORDER a new Porsche...that it is better to let someone else take depreciation and buy 1-yr older with low miles, but i am starting to think the only way to feel good about this is to just order one. a dealer locally here is offering to order at 2% over invoice. I am thinking 18s, sport chasis (m030), Xenons, and BOSE. Thats all I can afford...hopefully not having PSM wouldnt be a big deal (?) if just driving in nice weather at home...no track time probably. about $66 + TTL for new 04 versus $60k +TTL for this heavily optioned, but heavily driven car...

Johnny, Don't give up on buying used. While it's great to buy new if you can afford it, there are lots of good used cars out there. It takes a bit of work to find them, but it's a good time investment to save the $$. Be patient, and the right car will come along.

johny-if you can get new, as you like it, for the mid 60's, i don't see the problem. i would definitely take new. why would you take a car, that has been run hard and put away wet for 5 grand less? to me, it's a no brainer.

docjackson, i ordered yesterday... 04 996 artcic silver/black Xenons 18s BOSe PSM

Got PSM instead of MO30? And you can install the PSE at a later date when your bank account recovers!

I agree on you choice of PSM. No reason to skimp on a great safety system. You don't need bad weather to justify PSM. Any situation requiring an emergency maneuver can cause you to loose control without some help. Don't rule out taking your car out on the track for a DE. They're great ways to drive your car at illegal speeds without getting thrown in jail. Congratulations!

Hi, I was wondering whether any of you can help me. I am considering buying a used 1999 996 (USA). I am trying to figure out whether all the quirks that I uncovered are normal, or a sign of neglect. Specs: 1999 996 Carrera, 6M, 3.4l, 18" rims, mostly basic configuration, 5 cd changer, 90 days warrantee, rear wiper, price ~49kUS$. Car has 23k miles, generally looks good, and drove ok. Here are the quirks that I need help with. o On start up, there was a loud buzzing noise coming from the left rear Noise went away after a couple of minutes. o Clutch pedal creeks a bit when depressed o When warm, idle seems a bit a rough (empty passenger chair shakes) o Hard launches makes the gear shift shake o Shifter is a tad notchy o Rear spoiler on deployment is noisy o A bunch of plastic pieces are broken (some of the roof rack blanks, vent air intake cover under the hood) o Bottom front of car scraped up a bit, one of the plastic pieces torn o Wheel center covers bleached out probably due to caustic cleaner o Water in the lower left headlight assembly (I think it's just the reflector) o No Porsche used car certification o Hood/trunk release levers scuffed (they all seems to be like that) The car seems ok, but all these little bits make me wonder whether the car wasn't neglected by the previous owner(s). I'd appreciate to hear from the group whether the above ailments are normal. Other suggestions welocme. Thanks, Jan