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YOUR RESEARCHGHL-Stainless Exhaust Special
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Leading evidence: 'Check dorkphius' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'many of the people here are sleeping their cars' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check dorkphius' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I hadn't checked the weather yesterday morning and went to work with my baby (00 C2 cab)...
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I installed the GHL "loud" mufflers on my 40th Anniversary 911 a couple of weeks ago.
Install too free-flowing system including a test pipe
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I have installed a too free-flowing system including a test pipe on an 84 Carrera Cab in the past and found that I gave up too much bottom end as a tradeoff for the increase at wide open.
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Suggestion
Before you pounce, let me note that I was replacing cans with over 90k miles on them...one which started to rattle.
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Suggestion
As for the pics, it'll have to wait a bit: I need to get the cab clean first and with all the melted snow and salt on the road these days, it's a real challenge.
Install too free-flowing system including a test pipe
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I have installed a too free-flowing system including a test pipe on an 84 Carrera Cab in the past and found that I gave up too much bottom end as a tradeoff for the increase at wide open.
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Suggestion
I agree with you Stephen (and never said I didn't) that in your case you will notice the return to normalcy by replacing your broken down cans that are probably restricting your flow right now thus reducing HP numbers.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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GHL 996 Mufflers special price for Rennlist. All mufflers are hand crafted in house using 304 stainless featuring GHL patented free flow non resonating design. Throatier tone over stock...anyone can build loud... GHL is not overbearing or boisterous so you can enjoy the highway cruise without interior drone. Mufflers are available with 4 inch tips or use your stock tips.
Several folks asked us for special pricing. This offer is for a limited time...Expires Dec. 16, 2005.
996 Mufflers with GHL Tips $799
996 Mufflers without Tips $699
Ground Shipping is included...Lower 48 States
Happy & Safe Holidays,
Brian@GHL [phone removed]
This is a really nice exhaust. I listened to different brands and decided on the GHL. The sound is exactly as advertised. This price has to be the best value to make a Porsche sound as it should.
evad
depends on your preference. I got the regular which I thought was a little too quiet while i'm in the cabin but everyone says its plenty loud enough. Since I dont drive the car that often, I think I should have gotten the loud version, but i'm happy with the purchase.. i'm throwing out the stock cans if anyone wants it.. Its just taking up valuable garage space...
Actually, I just sold mine, wanted to try something louder, got fabs, they're loud!
The GHLs weigh about 30# for the pair. They are excellent mufflers, high quality. I just wanted to try something loud, who knows I may go back.
If I had a coupe then yes, the "loud" version would be the obvious choice. However, I have a cab and I am worried that the "loud" may be too loud -- the cab lets more noise in than the coupe, even with the top up.
i've had PSE, fabspeed, GHL regular and quiet. actually, that is the order of "loudness" from high to low. my favourite is still PSE and i still regret selling them. i was going for weight savings so i got the GHLs and fabspeed. i found the GHL loud to be only slightly louder than the regular. the difference was so slight that i called GHL to double check what they sent and it was confirmed that they sent the loud. i think the GHLs are better for cabs. i think my tin top muffled a lot of the sound. they do sound great from the outside though
Honestly, on a cab I would either keep the stock exhaust or try GHL regulars. You won't like fabs on a cab, they are a true hi perf muffler with power you can feel, but at a price...loud. I like them, but not for everybody.
Surgeon, where RUFs stand? Are they loud as hell too? I have a cab and liked the sound of the RUFS, but now you have me thinking that GHL is the way to go.
The Rufs are the loudest mufflers available, not for the faint of heart, plus they run around 2k. DJ996 had a set for awhile, he'll chime in I'm sure. He's had PSE, Ruf,Fabs, and GHL.
The first Cab I test drove(first porsche I had ever driven) had Fab's on it. They didn't seem too bad on the Highway but when I drove around in the city it was kinda loud.
The GHL's don't give any performance gains?
Also, I've noted that the stock exhaust I have seems louder with the top closed than with the top open.
Count me in for a DC (or VA) meet. I have a 2000 C2 cab and would love to make it sound a little more lively. It's a daily drive so based on everything that I've read here, GHL would probably be the best choice for me.
Karlooz, you feel PSE is louder than Fabspeed? I've never heard the Fabspeed. How much difference? Also, you mention GHL regular, GHL quiet, then GHL loud. Are there 3 GHL's?
I realize you're talking about Fabspeeds, but Karlooz listed his Fabspeeds as less loud than his PSE.........
And I have PSE on my cab, and it is possibly my favorite mod. I don't feel as if it's too loud at all. Sometimes when driving top-up, I open my
rear
drivers side window to partially simulate the top-down PSE experience, which is fairly awesome.
I have a CAB and have the PSE cans on (open all the time). I absolutely LOVE the sound especially with the top down! But, this mod is one of those that you NEED to hear first if you are the least bit worried about if you will like it or not. You really need to hear various cans in person. Sound clips do NOT do any of the cans justice.
me, my wife and my neighbors
all feel that PSE 3.6 is louder than fabspeed and GHL.
if PSE is a 10 loudness, fabs are 8, GHL LOUD is 6, and GHL regular/quiet is 5.
PSE is the THE BEST sound for the 996 but i got rid of it to save weight. i still regret getting rid of it
. just run the switch for the times you find it loud, esp. in a cab.
Peter, Carlos and Chris,
Thanks for your input. I think the GHL regulars would work best with my cab.
-Gary
Mike,
Did you check the GHL website? They have a picture on their site. Remember: Google is your friend.
http://www.ghlmotorsports.com/Mercha...ory_Code=P-996
P.S. Newbies must post pics.
Gary, I wish I was back in the NOVA right now so I could take you for a ride in my CAB with the PSE. Absolutely INTOXICATING! If you have't purchased anything by the end of May when I get back there for good I'll take you for a spin.
Cool.
I didn't install the switch. When I need to be quiet, I just keep the right foot in check.
I agree with Dell. PSE on a Cab with the top down is exhilarating!
Depends on what you really want.
If you want it louder than stock and can't tolerate any resonance or cabin noise, go GHL. You can't beat the price, they are a fine muffler, excellent customer servicer. Nothing wrong with GHL, just not as loud as the others IMO.
If you want loud and still want to keep it OEM, then go PSE, though they are quite pricey for what they really are, and heavy too. IMO they are overpriced but they do sound good.
The Ruf has a distinctive sound, no real resonance but could be a bit loud.Loud and raspy, like a Porsche should sound. I remember my wife hated riding in the car with the Rufs. Easily the best build quality bare none, but you pay for this. With the exchange rates it's kind of a non playeranymore. Too bad.
The Fabspeeds are about the best sound and power feel for the money IMO. Lightweight and great construction.They do have trace/mild resonance (but very tolerable), and a much more aggressive sound than either GHL or PSE. (Although I have been told my old 3.4 PSE was extremely loud from behind the car and in the neighborhood, but you couldn't tell from the cabin).
If I had to put money on one of these exhausts making more power than the rest I would have to go with the Fabspeeds. But y'all need to make up your own minds.
Words of wisdom. Just try a set, if you don't like 'em , you're not married to the damn things, they're not welded in place, just sell 'em and try something else. What's another grand in a 90k car?
Great post, DJ996. Thanks for sharing your experience with the pipes. I, too, found that the RUFs (that I heard but don't own and didn't drive) sound the most Porsche-like but am a little worried about how loud they would be in New York City. I have already had problems with the cans on my race bike so it gets to be kind of a hassle.
It seems like GHL offers a good compromise product unless anyone can chime in on the Gemballas 'loudness'. The beauty of this thread compared to others is that we're just talking loudness and not performance so it's a little different than all the other threads that I have memorized on this forum. Thanks again for everyone taking the time to share their experiences. And thanks to GHL for the great deal.
I was able to listen PSE at the shop where I have my car serviced and they were too loud for my taste. I have to admit that they did sound good though. I replaced my stock exhaust last year with the GHL's. They do get a little louder as they age but not by much. I did notice a bit of power gain. Before you pounce, let me note that I was replacing cans with over 90k miles on them...one which started to rattle. The GHL's have absolutley no resonance at all at any speed. I used the Fabspeed techquipment style tips. If anyone wants to listen to an installed set before you buy, let me know.
Dell, I have to disagree with you. You absolutely CAN notice a tiny bit of extra pull at the very top end, albeit I'm sure it's not much. On my car it will freely rev to the rev limit with the Fabs/Ruf where it seemed to peter out a little over 6500 with stock/pse. This was most notable at the track, but probably lost on the street.
Disagree all you want, but there is NO proven significant (ie, noticable) HP gains in the exhaust can unless you are pairing them with other pieces (ie, bypass pipes, airbox, etc). You might save a few lbs in weight but that is not the cans making you create more horses, it is the weight savings.
As for the PSE "petering" out at 6500 not sure what you mean. My car pulls all the way to red and I keep it there ALL day on the track with nothing but smiles.
Dell, please re-read my post. I have to disagree with you in my specific case, 90k miles, internal failure...I seriously doubt the stock exhaust was performing as intended.
With a very high propensity for restriction due to internal failure, the stock cans were likely reducing horespower levels. I had probably been losing a bit of power over time but did not notice until I replaced the cans. Very noticeable over 6k rpm. The GHL's were an economic alternative to stock replacement, not to mention it sounds better than stock.
BTW, forgot to post that I am in NoVA for those who may want to listen.
Not performing as intended is NOT the same as claimed noticeable HP gains in one exhaust over the other based on seat of the pants feel. Your cans fall into the "not performing as intended" category. WHat I was talking to Doug about was the claimed HP increase b/t one perfectly good PSE/Ruf/GHLor the like and the regular cans. It is weight that is saved not significant HP gained in that case.
I agree with you Stephen (and never said I didn't) that in your case you will notice the return to normalcy by replacing your broken down cans that are probably restricting your flow right now thus reducing HP numbers. HP increase over the broken cans? Of course (if they were restricting).
Redduck,
Dont throw those babies out, I'll pick them up from you. PM me a good time/date and I'll stop by your place to pick them up.
We should definitely have a meeting before old man winter sets in our area. Lets see, we have Eli, Redduck, Programmotore, TD, Vulture911(new 996 owner), Washington DC POrsche, StephenB, Chronos, and me. Anyone around here that I've missed?? Lets set up a time/place, you guys up for it??
The PSE is basically just a pipe welded btwn the inlet/outlet on a otherwise stock muffler, no way it could make any power, just noise. The Fabs are a much more free flowing system with very little back pressure, thus they do yield a power(upper rpm) gain unlike PSE. The added power from bypass pipes is the same principal, magnified. Both the fabs and bypass pipes will add top end power but lose low end tq, it's a trade off.
I'm down for the gathering.. Just let me know when and where.. I would be more then happy to take anyone for a test ride... With the roads we have here and my crappy Conti's you may hear more road noise and exhaust noise...
Vove, Eli, Peter, TD, Washington DC POrsche, Stephen, Chronos:
I would love to meet up as well. Unfotunately I am leaving for vacation tomorrow and won't be back until next year. I hope you guys have fun!
Dell:
I really want to get the PSE but at about half the price, the GHL looks really attractive. I am actually leaving for vacation tomorrow and won't be back until next year. I am sure that I can make arrangements with GHL to have the exhaust shipped in January so that I can accept delivery but I figured it is better not to rush this purchase. I guess I just got carried away with the Christmas shopping and all.
Thanks guys and Happy Holidays!
-Gary
With the holiday closing in on us, maybe we(Nova, MD, DC rennlisters)should try to meet up next year when Programmatore is back in town. It would be nice to see everyone there so I can put some faces to the posts.
Sorry for the highjack, GHL.
I'd love to meet a few 996'ers in the area. I have a (new to me) 2002 C4 Cab. Just put the snows and hardtop on yesterday. Good timing. I suspect many of the people here are sleeping their cars for the season, though. If something does transpire, please PM me.
Thanks,
David
(Potomac, MD)
Washington DC Porsche,
The best I can do is a coupe with the windows down and sunroof open. I can possibly hook up on this Sunday. I live near Fair Oaks Mall. Would be nice to meet with some of the others here. I saw a new 997 with a Rennlist sticker in the rear quarter window last week...anyone here? Nice personalized plate (although I can't reveal it here). I did meet Chronos last Friday. I think he is running bypass pipes.
Yesterday was my second unplanned "snow drive" in less than a week. First time Saturday eve... sleet, yuck and slippery! Then yesterday. I hadn't checked the weather yesterday morning and went to work with my baby (00 C2 cab)... Let's just say that the drive back home last night took quite a bit longer than usual
.
In any case, weather permitting, I'd be happy to meet some of you this weekend. I live in Loudoun county and work in the Fair Lakes/Fair Oaks area.
JM
The weather looks good for this weekend if you guys want to meet up at a starbucks around the way. Any suggestions about time/place for the guys who can make it out this sunday??
StephenB and Jedier, check out our local forum dorkiphus.com if you haven't done so. Maybe I can get some of the local guys to come out too.
After a pretty intense DE this past weekend I hear a mysterious rattle coming from the rear right side (must have been that one run through the weeds). An Advantage Porsche (Houston) tech tells me that the right can has to be replaced. He goes on that, due to the high cost of an OEM replacement, he would go aftermarket "If it were my car".
I check Rennlist, see this thread and quickly order one. It looks like some more male bonding time is coming up when my son gets home from college next week.
I've always said that I'd rather be lucky than good.
As of now my Sunday time frame is starting to strech thin. I could make a meet in Chantilly at 10:00. There is a Starbucks on Lee Road about (about 1/2 mile west of the Route 28/Route 50 interchange) that has a big parking lot with lots of room. I am not sure where everyone lives or so this location many not be ideal for others.
Jedier:
Buy some snows and drive it. I put my curb rash wheels and Blizzaks on just after Thanksgiving.
I am still open in the morning if anyone want to do the a.m. Definitely can't be a show and shine. My 996 has a nice salt spray patina. it's a tough time of the year to break free. I have a feeling most folks schedules are tight.
StephenB, M5guru, and Washington dc porsche, I can meet up in the morning with one of my friend which is a new 996 owner. 10am or 11am will be fine with me. Just let me know the place, what StephenB proposed is fine with me too.
M5guru, sorry I dont have the Fab or GHL, just PSE.
10:30 is fine with me at either Haines Point(East Potmac Park toward the Awakening) or the Starbucks(though I have no idea where that is since I don't drink coffee)
Sorry, couldn't do AM. Hopefully I'll get a chance to hear some of these sportier exhausts soon as I'd like to have on on before the spring. Hope everyone had a good time.
David
It's funny what with all this talk about exhausts. As I'm in the market for a new set, I was listening to clips of the Fabs, GHLs, Cargraphics, PSE, etc last night. It's funny, but my girlfriend's head was literally spinning after a while because the computer speakers and sub were cranked.
At the end of the night, she felt that the GHL regulars and the PSEs sounded the most like the traditional Porsche sound, whilst the rest were way too race-carish (Cargraphics) or V8ish (Fabspeed). Yes, I know, some people love that sound and I totally get that, but I want a slightly more refined 'scream' when I accelerate. Anyway, I am sure as hell not spending on the PSE...in my opinion, a new exhaust should be lighter and 30 pounds of savings on the low rear would make a hell of a difference, in my opinion.
Now, if only I can find a clip of the Gemballa and the RUF one last time, and before the end of the GHL sale before I make up my mind. Of course, I just wish that one shop had all these exhausts so I could hear them live. Any ideas where to head around the tri-state area for a demo listen?
Ed, you won't be disappointed with the GHL regs, I loved mine. One day I just wanted louder so I got the fabs.
If you're in the city, you can hear my fabs anytime. TXK (rpm) usually has a couple of cars around with different cans. In any respect, they're cheap enough, if you don't like 'em used cans are very easy to resale.
Edward, the Rufs are great but you'll spend more on them than the PSE. I would suggest 1st GHL regular at the special price, followed closely by Fabspeed if you want a more aggressive sound.
Can anyone comment:
first, where can i find a sound clip of the GHL's? Do both (loud and regular) have the same sound, but that the loud are just simply louder? I am trying to make a decision before this special runs out. I am currently stock, and want a better sound, but do not need everybody turning their heads when i drive by. It sound like the fabspeeds may be too loud for me. I am going from what C4SSurgeon has posted previously.
Thanks for any input.
Jeff
Fabs are way louder than GHL's, the GHL quiet are a little louder than stock at low rpm and alot louder at wot, zero resonance. Honestly, if noise is a cosideration(negative that is), you would be better off with the GHL regulars, if you want louder, you can always sell them later.
Question for those who have done this mod: is this a DIY job? The most involved mod I've done on my P-car (or on any car for that matter) is changing the stock shifter to a B&M SSK. If I get the GHL set (my most likely choice right now), would I need to have it installed by a professional?
JM
Your avatar is that of a Boxster. Are you asking about installing on a Boxster?
As for 996: I don't know about the GHL, but installing PSE is simple and quite easy. GHL should be no different.
Kevin:
I hadn't realized that my avatar was a Boxster (just shows how much of a newbie I guess I still am). As for the muffler installation, it is for a 996 (00 C2 Cab). I'm guessing that I'll need to jack the car up to have proper access, right?
I'll do an online search but if anyone knows of an install walkthrough (e.g., "step by step"), that would be great.
Thanks,
JM
Yes, jacking the car, if not a requirement, will ease the installation, and I would definitely recommend it. I always jack my car and use jack stands whenever working under the car simply for the additional room and ease of movement. Besides, these cars only have 3.5" or so of ground clearance, so, you can't really do much of anything under the car without jacking.
The installation is very straightforward. The muffler can has a bracket which attaches to the chassis with 3 bolts/nuts, IIRC. The inlet to the muffler can from the cat's is a clamp with two bolts: one which clamps the muffler pipe, the other, the cat pipe. And as for the exhaust tips, that is just a pipe collar with one bolt.
There may be some instructions on Renntech.org. Also search here for threads regarding DIY PSE install.
Post some pics of your Cab!!
jedier, GHL install is a definite DIY project. The hardest part is aligning the tips. Replacing the old clamps is a good idea as well they only cost about $10 each and will definitely speed up the install. My stock tips never did align properly, but this was not due to the GHL's. I bought a set of Fabspeed tips from Dan Vivid Racing and they align properly.
Steve in NoVA
Kevin, Steve:
Thanks for the feedback. I did find some info here and there (incl. Renntech.org). All in all, it looks straightforward. Now, I just need to get a jack and some stands. Good thing there is another thread currently on the board with some good pointers on this topic.
Steve:
Why Fabspeed tips and not GHL's?
JM
jedier, the GHL's would have been cheaper as a package deal but I just wasn't sure I would like the wider tips so I ordered just the mufflers. Mistake on my part. The Fabspeeds are well made and I do like the look of the wider tip. Kinda fills out the rear valence a little better. I have about 10k miles on the GHL's now and they still sound good. No annoying resonance and not too loud.
jedier, here is a link to a thread containing Orient Express' PSE install instructions:
Lots of good pics and info.
FYI, it is not necessary to remove the rear bumper cover (although it does provide superb access).
Steve, Kevin:
Thanks to both of you for all the tips & info! Now, I just need to do it!
As for the pics, it'll have to wait a bit: I need to get the cab clean first and with all the melted snow and salt on the road these days, it's a real challenge.
JM
I installed the GHL "loud" mufflers on my 40th Anniversary 911 a couple of weeks ago. I liked the sound but wasn't sure if there was quite enough difference from stock. They started getting louder from about 250 miles on. I now have 500 miles on them and they are just perfect for me. Nice aggressive throaty growl, no resonance at all. It remains a comfortable driver but now really howls when you open it up.
Seat of the pants dyno show a little increase certainly no decrease. I have installed a too free-flowing system including a test pipe on an 84 Carrera Cab in the past and found that I gave up too much bottom end as a tradeoff for the increase at wide open.
I also got a cat-back system for my son's Jetta GLI Turbo. Very nice piece and a perfect fit which isn't always the case with some aftermarket systems.
Very satisfied.
Thanks Brian.
