Porsche Didn't Call me Back... Saga Continues

I do truly think that my coolant leak is now worse after the local Porsche mechanic at the dealership decided that if one hose clamp was good, then two must be even better. I spoke with Kelly at PCNA last Thursday 11/13 who assured me that not only was someone from PCNA (my case worker) going to call me back no later than today 11/17, but that also the dealership would be notified. I even threw out the words "Lemon Law" when on the phone with Kelly to let her know that the problem has continued beyond the minimum requirements necessary under my state's law to inact the Lemon Law statute. Still no call back as of yet, from either PCNA or my local dealership (remember I even told the pre-survey person that I wasn't happy) I'm starting to wonder how these Lemon Law things work? Do I just need to drop the car off with the keys at the dealership and say "here ya go, it's all yours refund my $$$" or what? Must there be a judicial determination? Do I have to file with the BBB? Anyone know? I think I've been pretty patient these last few MONTHS that this problem has been going on, but I'm starting to get ticked off...

You can start by going to http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/ and looking up the exact wording for the statute in your state. These guys will represent you if you want, but even if you don't use them, it looks like they have a lot of resources you can use on their site. Tim

You should contact the BBB. They will arbitrate lemon law cases for free. This definitely applies as a lemon law car. Where are you located? I have contact info for the Northeast US Porsche sales rep and service managers.

Do NOT just drop off your car at the dealer. You will lose the game playing this way. Spend a few hundred dollars to discuss with an attorney and have him/her send a letter to Porsche NA. If the car is truly in Lemon status, most manufacturers will be willing to buy the car back. Dont expect to take no loss, most lemon laws have a built in depreciation factor but it usually is favorable to you. This is the path I took on a 2002 M3 and it worked for me. I would still have the M3 today had it not seen an engine failure and 3 weeks in the shop.

What makes you think Kelly knows what the Lemon Law is? Do you know what Kelly's level of education is? Talking to a phone attendant doesn't get you ANYWHERE! She is probably a former Hooters chick who got fired because she can't put lemon slices on water glasses! Thanks, I just had to vent. Seriously though, I've just learned to live with my car's problems.

Yes, I cannot vouch for Kelly's former employment although I can say I've been to a Hooters in Atlanta and for the most part the women there were better looking than at other Hooters, but I digress... I would have expected that if she opened a case on my car and had it assigned to a case worker that the case worker would have called me back within the allotted time frame. So far, they have not. Thanks for the link to the statutes in each state, I did find a troubling phrase in the Lemon Law for my state that reads in part: "It shall be an affirmative defense to any claim under this act that: An alleged nonconformity does not substantially impair such use and value; or a nonconformity is the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modifications or alterations of a motor vehicle by a consumer. " Ok so while the second one doesn't apply since I haven't abused, or neglected the car or had any alterations/modifications made, I have to wonder about the first. Does a coolant leak "substantially impair such use or value"? I'd have to think it would impair the value to some degree and no one wants to buy a car with a coolant leak, but the real question is does it substantially impair the use? I know I don't want to drive it as much with it leaking, I avoid driving the car for fear that at some point it might just bust open whatever is leaking and I'd be stranded somewhere as all the fluids ran out. I can, however, drive the car. Is the substantial impair of use test limited to cars that cannot be driven, or would a continual coolant leak be considered something that substantially impairs the use of the car? That's probably the heart of the matter right there. Here's something from that same website: What is a noncomformity substantially impairing the value of the vehicle? A noncomformity may include a number of relatively minor defects whose cumulative total adds up to a substantial impairment. This is the "Shake Faith" Doctrine first stated in the Zabrisikie case. "For a majority of people the purchase of a new car is a major investment, rationalized by the peace of mind that flows from its dependability and safety. Once their faith is shaken, the vehicle loses not only its real value in their eyes, but becomes an instrument whose integrity is substantially impaired and whose operation is fraught with apprehension". A substantial noncomformity may include a failure or refusal to repair the goods under the warranty. In Durfee V. Rod Baxter Imports, the Minnesota Court held that the Saab owner that was plagued by a series of of annoying minor defects and stalling, which were never repaired after a number of attempts, could revoke, "if repairs are not successfully undertaken within a reasonable time", the consumer may elect to revoke. Substantial Non Conformity and Lemon Laws often define what may be considered a substantial impairment. These definitions have been successfully used to flesh out the substantial impairment in the UCC. So it seems possible that since I am hesitant to drive the car given its current condition that this may qualify under these terms, I'm sure each state's case law varies to some degree. I guess I'll try calling or emailing the BBB and see what response I get.

I think you are going at this the wrong way. Drive it, and drive it hard! If it busts, you would have all the previous paperwork showing it was the dealership that didn't repair the leak when it was minor. And it would significantly impair the drivability of your vehicle.

i agree with c4c_leon. you have nothing to lose here. this is definitely a lemon law case, but any damage caused by defects in the car is covered by warranty anyway. but contact the BBB and an attorney right away.

The real problem here is this (as I see it): Porsche Customer Commitment is NOT what it once was. It's worse. Not that it was terrific ever (are any of them great?), but my personal experience left me pretty sour. If you write Customer Commitment, do you anticipate a response from Customer Commitment? I do, and I didn't get it. Sad, but PCNA has changed, and it ain't pretty. Just my two cents.

Eric: You are right on . . . my experiences with PCNA have been abysmal. All they are interested in are service survey results that they can use to punish their dealers financially -- too bad they don't rate themselves . . .

Complaint filed with the BBB today. As of today, still no call back from either the dealership or PCNA. BBB states that it could take up to 30 days to hear from them. I printed my report and have saved it in my file of paperwork on the car.

I'm surprised to hear the PCNA Customer Commitment isn't stepping up to resolve this problem. I purchased a very early build 1999 C2 that turned out to be an absolute nightmare. I called customer commitment and to my surprise (after reviewing the service history and consulting with the dealer), they bought the car back and put me in an 01 (for a small out of pocket difference of course). Once the regional rep was involved, resolution was swift. Once thing though worth mentioning is that PCNA took the dealer out of the loop entirely. I discovered almost immediately that the dealer could do almost nothing without PCNA, so going around them was the best recourse. Good Luck.

Until of course the dealership plugs the car into the diagnostic computer, runs the PRT2 scan and checks to see how the car has been driven. RPM, Redline, etc. Big brother is watching. We have a customer with a toasted 2nd gear synchro in a 99 Coupe that he bought this summer. The car had 20,000km on it when he bought it, and the synchro was shot at 25,000km. He wanted it warranteed. Porsche said the warranty on the car had expired. But, we convinced them to split the bill. Customer still has to pay $5000, because Porsche wants a new transmission, not a repaired synchro. The customer still balked at it. So Porsche said, send us the PRT2. If tyhe car hasn't been abused, we'll do a new tranny. Guess what? The car had been autocrossed, no new tranny. Something to think about anyway.

I didn't mean for Ghost Rider to abuse car, just drive it hard, like it's meant to be, instead of coddling it, and driving his back-up car.

Ghost Rider's Backup car has two wheels and some pedals... Oh, and I haven't abused the car either so I'm not worried about anything stored in the computer. The problem has also been going on for MONTHS now... since August...

Here's the latest update: Last Friday (11/21) the local dealership calls me and tells me they got a call from PCNA about my coolant leak problem and they'd like me to bring it back (5th time) and let them fix it. I ask what is going to be different THIS time and they assure me up and down that they won't let it leave without being completely fixed that they are order extra hoses, etc. to make sure they have all the parts they will need, will I bring it in on Monday (today). So I grudgingly agree to give them another shot at fixing it and take the car in this morning. After waiting a couple of hours they come out and tell me they will have to put me in a loaner they have discovered not one, but TWO leaks and are going to order some flanges and replace those as well along with hoses, clamps and assorted things. They don't in fact have all the parts they need, will overnight them and have them on Tuesday, finish my car and get it back to me. So tomorrow I am expecting a call to tell me my car is done, doesn't leak and to come pick it up. Of course whether or not it leaks will remain to be seen... Haven't heard back from the BBB yet, although they did say up to 30 days...

I'll go out on a limb and guess that they'll get it this time. I'd have been tempted to tell them to send a flatbed or pick it up themselves. Good luck. AS

Well I got a call late in the day yesterday that the dealership thought they had the problem licked, BUT they'd like to keep the car overnight and put some miles on it to see if their repair work did the trick. Say what? Yes, the service manager wanted to drive the car home, put it in his garage overnight, then drive it back to the dealership today and put it back up on the lift to see if the problem is indeed fixed. I reluctantly agreed to this figuring that if the car still leaked then I'd invoke the Lemon Law and be done with it, but if it is truly fixed then being without the car one more day will be a small price to pay for a car that doesn't leak anymore. I also took the time to clean my garage floor so as to be easily able to spot any new drops of coolant should any appear after the car finally does return home. I am curious as to whether or not they will fill up the gas tank as a courtesy, it had just over a 1/2 tank when I took it in. I did get a packet in the mail from the BBB but didn't open it yet.

so... how did it turn out today? inquiring minds want to know!

Well they called me just before noon and I went and picked up the car, which had been filled with gas, and they topped off the oil too (at my request when the car was dropped off) According to the dealer it isn't unusual for a 996 to use more oil up until 12,000 miles, not the 2,000 or so I was originally told. Well whatever, we'll see how that changes. I just checked under the car and in about 10 hours there have not yet been any drops on the floor. Looking underneath I see lots of shiny new parts and hoses that they replaced, I have a list out in the car I should bring it in and type it up, they swapped out a lot of things... So far so good, keeping fingers crossed.