FABSPEED - Cuda911's Cat Replacement Thread

The recent Fabspeed thread (not started by me) was filled with unprofessional posts by a number of members (at least one has since been banned from RL). Please guys, do NOT use this thread to bash Fabspeed. That is not the purpose here. This thread is intended to document my current Fabspeed cat replacement experience. Last August (2013), I purchased the Fabspeed Performance Package (headers, cats, X-pipe, mufflers, tips, and misc. other stuff). I purchased it through Konig Motorsport in Oceanside, CA, based on the high recommendation of the owner of Konig Motorsport. The workmanship of the Fabspeed components appears to be very high quality, and overall I am pleased with the components. Then, in December 2013, I got a CEL. The OBD indicated a bad Bank 1 cat. I had the code cleared. Two months later, the CEL came back, showing bad Banks 1 and 2 cats (CEL – P0420 and P0430 codes). Initially I was told by my mechanic that Fabspeed would send new ones under warranty. After waiting several months (and a lot of "they will be here next week"), I finally spoke with Joe and Alex at Fabspeed last week. They have both assured me that the cats will be replaced under warranty, but I have to send them in first, to be inspected. I have no idea why I was told "they will be here next week" for so many months, but let's get beyond that. Today I took my car to Konig Motorsport. They will have the cats sent to Fabspeed, per Joe's request. So, I will be without my car until this is resolved. Today is Monday, August 4, 2014. Let's see how long it is until I am back on the road. .

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Hmmm. Surprised you still have your patience and sanity and are handling this in a professional manner. You must be a good husband. I would've lost it awhile ago. And here I thought you were already past this until I read about it today again.

Hang in there buddy. I'm sure Fabspeed is a good company and hope that they do the right thing and get your situation fixed quickly so you are back on the road. Please keep us all up to speed on your progress. PS - I'm not giving back your tips....

Post up a video when you get every thing sorted would love to hear it .................

Thanks, guys. Dave, yeah... I still have all my other stuff (OEM cats, mufflers, headers)... the one thing that prevents me from going back to OEM is that my tips are driving around in Atlanta! Alpine, My new (to me) 914 has been taking up my time and automotive discretionary funds lately, which has given me a bit more patience on the 996. However, patience has worn thin by now. I'm really hoping that Fabspeed doesn't drop the ball this time around. Raven, here's a short clip I made last summer. However, the clip quality is marginal, at best. Fabspeed Drive by clip2 - YouTube

Sorry, but that's inexcusable. Unless this story ends with, "I was reimbursed for labor and shipping costs", I wouldn't deal with them. I hope you get this worked out to your satisfaction.

Hope it works out for you, I'm sure it will. Good company, 914s can be a lot of fun on the track.

not to change subject, and hard not to bash any company that has basically has blown u off this long, but how do u pass smog???

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Not sure about the labour cost, that should be honored by Koneig the reseller. But yes way past time for him to be made whole.

Aren't you able to use the Fabspeed mufflers/tips with the stock cat pipes? Why not just use the stock pipes for the time being?

An excellent question. When I bought the set-up, I did ask if it would pass CA smog, and was told "yes." Unfortunately, I was not aware of the evil "Visual" portion of the inspection at that time. So, even though it will (according to Fabspeed) pas the "sniffer" portion of the inspection, it will not pass smog from the visual standpoint. My options are: 1. Try and find someone I can slip a hundie to have bad eyesight during the visual. 2. Put all the OEM stuff back on every two years, smog it, then swap it back out. BEeif61: Well, if it's just a week or so, not worth the effort of swapping, then swapping back. Good question though. I'm not certain if the OEM cats will just bolt in, between the Fabspeed headers and mufflers. Any of you Fabspeed guys know?

OEM cats will bolt in

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Would they still fail you on the visual with the header and/or muffler though?

^^^ Yep, will still fail on the headers, not sure they can even see 'em though. I think that technically the mufflers are OK, since they after after the cats, but not 100% sure on that. Anyone here know? Pete, you sure on the OEM cats (that they will bolt right up to the Fabspeed components)? That will make things a lot easier, if all I need to do is swap them out.

They will definitely bolt in. All the parts that come in the package that you bought can be bought separately and used along with the rest of the OEM components. Meaning if you just want the Fabspeed headers you can only buy the headers and switch it out and it will bolt right to your OEM cats and vice versa for the cats and mufflers.

Perfecto! Thanks! Now I'm freaking out a lot less in anticipation of my next smog cert (due next March). Good thing I had the sense to keep my old cats. I hope they still function.

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Yes they will bolt in As stated by others parts are made to bolt in individually, meaning you can replace any one part

I have the FabSpeed setup and love the way they look and sound. I've not had a problem with the cats or any O2 sensors. About 70,000 miles on the setup. When I feel ambitious while cleaning, I get under the bumper with some chrome polish and clean them up. They still look good after that many miles. Very good quality in my opinion. I live in Florida so no smog testing. Maybe you should consider moving!

Good luck Cuda! I hate the smog rules around aftermarket parts as well... I am surprised they aren't "CARB" certified. A lot of companies make that claim. And it makes good sense to hang onto OEM stuff if it works. Some people recycle the cats as well for a few hundred... could offset your shiny pieces a bit.

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Here's a list of companies that have obtained CARB certification for aftermarket cats: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...xemptcat09.pdf A pretty short list. But, I agree, Fabspeed should get on it. I know it's a ROYAL PITA to deal with CARB, but I imagine that Fabspeed has a pretty good customer base in CA. Originally, I saved the OEM cats because, as you say, I should be able to get a couple hundred at a recycler. But, after I learned about the "visual" inspection, I decided I better keep them.

PIA-BS here in Cali or I would have the 200 cell cats with Agency power mufflers. Should be if it passes, it passes. However, i'm sure we could find someone with "CARB" buttons & a good welding guy. Keep me posted when u smog. I use two guys right down on coast hwy, however don't know how strict they are at the visual.

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Bummer...Porsche is on the list exactly twice.

Cuda, The guys are right. You can bolt any factory component to any Fabspeed component for whatever combination that you desire! Also, I am fairly out of the loop (as I am in sales) but I believe that Customer Service, Cuda911 and the Shop have come to an agreement for a possible remedy solution. Evan

Thanks, Evan, good to know that all of the various parts can swap out independently! Yes, Joe has informed me that once my cats get back to Fabspeed, he will take care of it. So, if Koning (the shop where my car is) gets things taken care of on his end, I should be back in business soon. I'll keep everyone updated.

Update: Today (8/9/2014) I got a call from my mechanic. He says that Fabspeed sent him two O2 sensor extenders, and wants me to try that and see if the CEL comes back on. So again, I keep being told different things......

Sorry to hear that. I commend you for the professional and mature manner in which you brought attention to the issue. I am sure that it hasn't been missed by many of us in the community.

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I've read also here on this forum and others... that's a good probable fix for your CEL. What's unclear to me is why Fabspeed is so tone deaf. They have failed to capitalize on an opportunity to demonstrate superior service and good will. They may be right technically. However they are loosing the battle of common sense customer satisfaction and the greater opportunity to build goodwill in their primary market. My thought is this decision to send the xtender is an example of techs that are talking and not listening. That's a management role. I'm thinking this will end up being a lot more costly than some new cats and 02 extenders.

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Maybe so... the problem is, I won't really know for quite some time. Sometimes the CEL takes a month or more to come back on. I also don't understand why I was told to send in my cats to Fabspeed, but the next thing you know, I'm being sent some O2 sensor extenders. Will keep you guys posted.

Simply based on your experience and the changing nature of Fabspeed's responses, I personally would NEVER purchase a Fabspeed product even though I will be in need of a solution soon.

Guys we stand by our products and mike cuda car will be handled as all our other customers. I noticed a couple questions that needed to be addressed. No aftermarket company has CARB certification for Porsche late model cars as the costs and volume is low. Tenneco is a tier 1 multinational OEM manufacturing company and magnaflo car sound are gigantic companies and there product offerings are all super high volume American and Asian cars. On Porsche Ferrari Lamborghini mclaren and other cars Fabspeed Motorsport exclusively uses HJS German imported tri metallic 200 cell high flow catalytic converters. We truly use the worlds very best HJS German imported catalytic converters for all applications as these Emitec German brazed cores proprietary wash coated by HJS. These HJS tuning catalytic converters are extremely long term reliable for street and race track usage. I have not run the numbers but we may get a 1% failure rate that can be due to a variety of factors. HJS catalytic converters are Engraved with the HJS Tuning logo and E for Emitec. Emitec only makes the cores and does not wash coat the catalytic converter matrixes. Ultimately It is very very rare when a fabspeed system utilizing HJS German imported super premium catalytic converters set off a check engine light. When we do get a complaint we request written codes and ask questions as to determine why and how this CEL might have occurred. Often we correct the problem over the phone. Sometimes, the cel lights have been from simple installation errors and outright installation errors that are not under our control. For example we,have had factory Porsche and Ferrari dealers occasionally transpose the primary and secondary 0 2 sensors. We have had independent shops and car owners mistakenly swap sensors. You will always get a cel light under these conditions. We have had customers fill their cars with leaded gasoline which will kill any and all catalytic converters. Other matters cars get old have misfires due to various issues , burn oil, and get cel lights. Customers leave a gas cap loose and get a cel light and assume it's the exhaust. But it is very very rare with fabspeed systems that use HJS German catalytic converters. Fabspeed Porsche headers, catalytic converters, and mufflers are high performance direct replacement parts for the factory Porsche equivalent parts. Everything we manufacture makes added sportscar sound and power. As time goes on factory and cars gain mileage porsche catalytic converters are failing , getting loose in the pipes and check engine lights occur and new factory Porsche OEM catalytic converters cost a fortune. During Porsche TechTactics I toured the massive Porsche parts center and new replacement catalytic converters were stacked like cord wood for all the various Porsche models. Porsche factory catalytic converters are being replaced on a regular basis like any component. Fabspeed Motorsport USA has started work on carb certification and TUV approval concurrently. It is a intensive time consuming complicated task in which I have advised to retain multiple consultants in multiple time zones. These is no guarantee and I can not spend over $15,000 to $20k for each exhaust system component. Fabspeed has alteast 40 different applications with HJS German catalytic converters and etc. For the time being no USA or Germany company offers carb certified products for any exotic car. Carb certification is really difficult and expensive. TUV German approval is underway and again a costly adventure. We are doing a cost benefit analysis on all these certifications. Each and every company has to mention that their exhaust parts are for "off road use only and not legal for California motor vehicles" . It's a shame California is becoming so difficult for car owners as time goes on. Recently I believe California laws allowed non carb certified catalytic converters to be installed for several good reasons. I believe if the California cars catalytic converter failed the owner could replace with a non carb certified catalytic converter. If the California car had its factory catalytic converters stolen the owner could replace with non carb parts. Lastly if you bought a used car and it's catalytic converters were missing not installed the new owner could replace with aftermarket catalytic converters. I mentioned to mike that many car enthusiasts will actively register certain cars in other states to avoid these pain in the *** regulations. New Mexico, Arizona and Nevada are close to beautiful California. In Pennsylvania cars driven under 5000 miles per year are emission exempt in metro areas in rural areas there is no inspection. Some car guys will simply reinstall their factory Porsche cats every 2 years for inspection. One benefit is that Porsche cars exhausts are super simple to remove and install as everything is in clear view with no obstructions versus a Ferrari, Lamborghini and mclaren mp412c. Everything is buried in the engine bay under multiple components and panels. I apologize for rambling. I hope you all have a great weekend.

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Wow. Incredibly out of touch. You need to hire a PR professional If this is the way you stand by your customers ? FAIL And that long irrelevant post is a FAIL more sales gobbledygook

Question for you guys: Assuming that the O2 sensor extenders work (i.e., get rid of the CEL), is it still possible that the cats are bad, and the sensors are just being "fooled". Again, going back to the issue of California smog, is it possible that these cats (with the extenders) would fail the sniffer test?? (which is, of course, a different issue than failed "visual" inspection). And, to be clear, I have never run leaded gas or diesel or tequila or any other questionable substance through my car (my mechanic said that he was grilled by Fabspeed as to whether I had ever run leaded gas or high octane gas).

If Fabspeed cat converters work as they should, you should not be failing the sniffer test. I am not sure how extenders are supposed to help in your case. Extenders are usually used with test pipes to fool the ECU into thinking that cat converts are still present; extender reduces the area of the sensor exposed to the exhaust flow, thus giving the lower reading. If Fabspeed cats work, you should be able to pass sniffer test easily. I would not worry about the visual test either, cover the Fabspeed markings on the exhaust and cross your fingers that tech will not be too ****. Chat him up with tech talk.

I can run NO cats and use extenders on 2ndary O2's and have no code your cats can be bad and have no CEL with extenders high octane should not be an issue either. Leaded gas? can/will be an issue

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This. There are quite a few guys running cat bypass pipes with O2 extenders and able to not trigger the CEL. A company offering O2 extenders as a first line fix is a cop out IMO. There are some ecu versions with different firmware that can be more finicky. However I think the company should first let you exchange to new cats first and then if the problem still persisted, offer you the O2 extender solution(or band aid). This way you know for sure you don't have bad cats.

Interesting reading from the Fabspeed web site.

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So, why doesn't everyone here just slap on some extenders to pass smog? Or is that something the smog techs will look for right away? In CA now, if you get a notice from DMV that you have to take your car to a "STAR-certified" smog inspection shop, they go out of their way to fail you. STAR-certified shops get to charge three times as much for running the exact same tests as non-STAR shops. Re: "If Fabspeed cat converters work..." Yeah, that's my concern though. There is no way for me to know if they are working or not. My mechanic claims that Fabspeed's guy (I don't know which one... I assume Mickey, since that's who he deals with the most there) told him to ask me if I had run high octane gas, thus ruining the cats. In my entire life, I have never gotten so much run-around for a clear warranty issue. Sears will take back a 30-year old tool and exchange it, no questions asked. I also don't understand why I was under the impression that my cats had been sent back to Fabspeed, when, in fact, Fabspeed told my mechanic to not send them in, since they were going to send the extenders. At least a tiny shred of communication would have been good. Everyone involved has my name, address, email, and cell phone number. Can someone from Fabspeed please answer, in this thread, the issues regarding using an O2 extender as a fix? Pluses? Minuses? Potential issues? Is it really a "fix" or is it a "band-aid"? I do not have the background to understand this issue from a technical standpoint, so hopefully an engineering type guy can educate me. Thanks!

In S.D. County, California where a full smog is required including treadmill/sniffer, you will fail the visual if there is any non stock part on the intake or exhaust. So if it's a shiny muffler with no CARB number, it will fail. If you have a red intake boot with no CARB number, it will fail. If there is a CARB number on a non-stock part, the station is supposed to reference the number to confirm it's legit.

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My 02 C2 runs the 200-cell fabspeed cats with open exhaust with no CEL issues and I do not run sensor extenders.

^^^ I have heard the same from others, which makes me think my cats are bad. Again, there is no way for me to know whether they are bad or not. Seems to me, the extenders just add one more variable to the issue. Usually, when diagnosing a problem, one wants to REDUCE the number of variables. Garrett, you are not the only one to have commented that the red intake boot is a big red flag (no pun intended) for the smog guys to start taking a closer look, to see what else is non-stock. Joe F. : You told me that the red ones were your idea, to add a bit of color to the engine bay. I do agree that they look good, but I don't want to alert the smog guys to start poking around, any more than I have too. I was not expecting the red one to be sent to me. Do you have any black ones that you can send me? Much appreciated. . Red boot, for those who aren't familiar: .

Update (August 11, 2014): Well, no response or reply from Fabspeed. I picked up my car today. The mechanic told me that Fabspeed insisted on having them install the O2 sensor extenders, rather than replacing the cats. He said that he would not been at all satisfied with this "fix" if it were his car. I don't consider myself very satisfied with this "resolution" either.

Unbelievable. Scratch Fabspeed off my list of options. That response was so off topic and unrelated to the situation at hand that I had a hard time sifting through it. Good luck to you Mike- you might have to chalk this one up to a Loss. These guys are so out of touch it hurts!

Reading this makes me so happy I don't live in the People Republic of Kalifornia.

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A rather expensive loss, at that. I spent nearly $6,000 on the Fabspeed Performance Package. Not exactly chump change. With two kid's college tuitions that I am paying, rather painful. I have received numerous PM's from guys telling me that they considered Fabspeed equipment, but after reading this have crossed Fabspeed off of their list. I can't understand why any business would torpedo itself this way.

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x2. Seems like they tried to respond to cover their rep and help themselves doing damage control more so than addressing your specific situation at hand. We're not talking about some cheap $100 part here. They really did shoot themselves in the foot here. FWIW, I've been happy with Speedtech(speedtechexhausts.com) parts and service. I think they are also sponsors on here or used to be at one point.

Completely unacceptable "solution"

Fabspeed's silence is deafening.

Moreover, all of the aftermarket exhaust manufacturers should be more upfront in telling customers that there product will not pass a California visual, and that a high flow cat will trigger a MIL lamp for cat efficiency. It is also funny that they all claim a 15-25 HP increase with there systems, I say bull****. The Cat extenders will most likely stop the MIL light from triggering, Nicely polished stainless is masking an inferior product. There is a reason that the OEM cats are so expensive, they are a lot higher quality. And there warranty policy is nuts, Just send you two new cats, it will cure the problem for a year or so, and they can send the old ones back to there top tier supplier for reimbursement. Defiantly poor customer service

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Extenders serve one purpose, they fool the O2 sensors into not triggers the CEL. If your car has no cat converters, you install the extenders so that you don't have the CEL. Your car will still fail the sniffer test, but there will be no CEL. In AZ, OBD 2 cars don't have to do the sniffer or visual test. You pull up to the station, they connect their OBD 2 scanner to the car; if no faults present, you are GTG. So using the extenders in AZ to eliminate the CEL is a viable solution; in CA not so much.

I have had factory cats fail on my 04 GT3 and my 09 C4S. So even factory cats are not perfect. Never used anything but 94 octane fuel. Rumor has it that some 94 octane contains more than 10 percent ethanol which will eventually kill cats. Dunno if true, in any case my cats were replaced under warranty. The suspect gas station changed suppliers and there have been many fewer dead cats recently.

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200 cell cat and cat bypass actually do make 15-25hp. Majority of that isn't peak but "below the curve" where it's most useful, especially in a street car.

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Exactly!! . Any cat manufacturer selling throughout the US should be familiar with the regulations for their product in the states they sell to. Alex at Fabspeed at one point told me that he wasn't aware that Fabspeed cats weren't CA compliant! Why is Fabspeed acting like it would put them out of business to just replace the cats? Insane. Just so that it is clear to all of you, the "service" documented in this thread is exactly how you will be treated too, directly from the owner's mouth (well, keyboard). .

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Extenders do nothing to reduce emissions they only help prevent a CEL. If only you had a Cayman, read post#8 in this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...uld-i-get.html

Why is this taking so long?

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Crickets....unbelievable Bob, you have a PM Mike, sorry for your troubles and lo$$! After following this thread, I contacted a friend, to advise him against a Fabspeed system for his 964. Hope they rectify the problems with your system. Best, Dwane

Currently happy with my Fisters. If I ever make the jump to performance exhaust I will no longer consider Fabspeed as an option based on Mike's experience as I am a CA resident in San Diego.

Fisters are great. I had Fabspeed supercups on my 1st 993 and the drone was unbearable...

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I've had 200 cell high flow cats (Cargraphic) on my car for over a year and not a peep from my computer.

For what it would have cost them to just send you a new cat I bet they have already lost 100x more of potential profit. With so many options available at your fingertips keeping customers happy is the key to stay in business for a long time.

^ +996.

I see that Fabspeed has a gorgeous full page ad in Excellence magazine. Marketing dollars; of which a small portion would have been much better spent addressing this well followed lack of service after the sale thread. Unbelievable that we are a visible audience of enthusiasts and yet this appears to be lost on them. Mike - where do things stand at the moment?

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Not all that unusual in business unfortunately. People often focus on the minutia and miss the big picture. I once worked for a guy who I always said would step over dollar bills to pick up pennies. Sad to see......

I am curious as to the position of your shop through whom you purchased and installed the Fabspeed units. Did the shop not make you aware that they were non-CARB compliant? Does the shop assume any liability for the issues that you are having? If I had my mechanic install a new Cat and asked them to use a factory part and I then failed my smog check I wouldn't be calling the Porsche parts department, I'd be back at my mechanic. That's what their markup on the part pays for. Fabspeed certainly seems to be making a royal mess of this whole situation, however since you did not purchase their items directly from them I'm first of all surprised that they are communicating directly with you in the first place and secondly it is always possible that there is something going on behind the scenes with them and your shop that you are not privy to. I'm not calling out either party (You, your shop, Fabspeed) here since I was not involved in any part of the transaction but if I purchased something from my mechanic I would expect him to tell me that I am going to have problems with it, either mechanical or legal or both and to explain what he will or will not do about it if or when it occurs. It's hard to believe that Fabspeed doesn't know about CARB compliance but it is beyond belief that your shop does not know about CARB and chose not to advise you. Hell, if I was selling anything that was not completely above board with the local regulatory agencies I would make my customer sign a statement or waiver absolving me from any liability, i.e. the "off-road use only" verbiage. I would expect a professional mechanic to be aware of the law. Having lived in CA for twenty years and having been part of the auto enthusiast crowd there (but not in any professional capacity), it is NOT possible to be in any part of the industry and be unaware of CARB, CARB-exemptions, and CARB compliance issues. You guys that are out of state have no idea how all-encompassing the whole CARB thing is. Please don't think I'm a dick, but Fabspeed is not the only relevant part of the story here.

^^^ Good point. Im afraid Cuda is on his own.

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Where things stand is that Fabspeed said they would replace the cats, but instead, at the last minute, sent the sensor extenders and then will not respond to emails or PMs or posts here on RL. Walter, I agree with you regarding the shop, too. No, they never told me they were not CARB compliant. In fact, they told me that the cats would pass CA smog, which to me meant that they were compliant. After all, how can you pass smog if they are not compliant? Answer: you can't. My understanding is (and this may be incorrect) that it was actually illegal to put the Fabspeed cats on my car, since it is illegal to sell non-compliant cats in CA. Re: "...since you did not purchase their items directly from them I'm first of all surprised that they are communicating directly with you..." This is quite a bit different than, for example, trying to get Panasonic to replace my TV if it went bad. And, here is a direct quote from them:

Fair enough, wasn't aware of that, again, wasn't trying to be a jerk. Have the shop put your old parts back on, put the FabSpeed stuff in a box, file a small claims action to try to get them (your shop) to take it back (or sell it yourself) and move on. In the long run in CA with it on your car, you'll lose. Get some Fister D's at 1/10th the price. You won't miss the 20hp. If you're really pissed, drop a dime to CARB about the mechanic installing illegal parts.

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Most companies get around the legality aspect by always having a disclaimer: "For off road use only" on performance parts. The responsibility then always falls back to the owner.

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Unless your shop is the one doing your smog check and does not truthfully do the visual portion of the check.

Hey Cuda - when you or your shop get a chance, can you take a picture of the inside of the cats? Do they have any HJS markings on the outside? Curious because they mention using HJS brand cats in their promo videos but I've seen photos of parts that suggest otherwise. easier described in photos, borrowed from various places online: HJS cat, note 's' winding: other brand cat: Fabspeed 997.2 GT3 system from their website: Second hand Fabspeed GT3 system: ^^ substrate does not appear to be like the HJS shown in photo #1

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Unfortunately, the shop that installed the cats does not do smog checks. Well, since Fabspeed is refusing to replace the cats, they will remain on the car so I won't be able to get inside photos. Based on what you've read in this thread, I will leave it up to the guys here whether or not to believe any of Fabspeed's claims.

A buddy of mine wanted to upgrade his 996C4S exhaust system. I urged him to buy FVD although he was tempted to buy Fabspeed because it was cheaper. The install was not an issue but he could not clear his CEL. The issue is that the exhaust system was not getting hot enough for the O2 sensor. After steady 6,500RPM runs for up to 40 minutes, the CEL went away. Again, this is FVD 200 cell Xpipe with Fister hack muffler setup. Not Fabspeed...

Good info, chsu/4. Maybe someone else choosing between the two will go with FVD based on that.

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Actually there is no general "off road" use exemption from the pollution control requirements of the Clean Air Act. Once you sell enough product and somebody complains , the EPA will close you down. If Fabspeed really wants to play hardball, report them to the EPA/CARB. The only purpose of the O2 extenders is to defeat the catalytic converter monitoring function of Motronic.

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I've had the speedventure X-pipe and hi flow cats for almost two years, and never a peep from my computer . Actually, within the first couple of weeks, I did get the two codes relating to the CCs. I discussed it here on RL and at the suggestion of another member, we reset the brain, and not a problem since then. That was almost two years ago.

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Yeah, it's my understanding that there is no exemption. Cats must be CARB-certified to sell in CA. I don't know that I could be quite as much of a hard-*** to report either the mechanic or Fabspeed to CARB, but I do know it would cause both of them a world of hurt. Still amazing to me that Fabspeed's owner and customer "service" reps are so unresponsive, misleading, and generally untrustworthy to a PAYING customer. Rather shameful in my book. To me, providing the the sensor extenders was sort of like Fabspeed saying: "Got a CEL? Oh, too bad, here's some black tape to cover up the light on the dash."

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Hard-***? I don't know, sounds to me like you got (are getting) robbed. At a minimum it requires an "explanatory" letter to both of them from your lawyer as a first step. Beyond that, I'd guess the claim itself would fit into the CA small claims guidelines, so you'd lose a day off work at most and not be paying a lawyer. If someone stole the exhaust off your car while it was parked in front of your house, I'm pretty sure you'd report that - no matter how much an arrest might hurt the perp. Both situations are the same result to you, money out of pocket, not really usable product. Nobody thought you live in Maine, everyone knew you live in CA, original home of the smog check...

Maybe they are ignoring this and not sending you cats because they know you will continue having the same problem. Sorry you are going through this. I wonder how much business Fabspeed will loose or at least have a harder time capturing because threads like this and others. Seems foolhardy way to handle this.

Cuda, I just checked the Fabspeed site and their disclaimer regarding cats not being C.A.R.B. legal and for Off-Road use only is in red letters under the ad. Did you miss this when you bought them or did they just add it? NOTE: Fabspeed�s 200-cell high-flow catalytic converters are not C.A.R.B. certified and are for Off-Road Use ONLY in the state of California http://www.fabspeed.com/porsche-996-...rt-cat-x-pipe/

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I'll probably wait until my smog is due early next year. If I run into problems at that time, I can take this issue up with CARB. Per CARB's web site: I don't know. They may have added that recently. When I took my car to they shop, it was the shop that pushed for me to get the Fabspeed ones, it wasn't my suggestion. But, the shop and Fabspeed both knew this was for a street car, within San Diego County. Per CARB's web site: I read that to mean that the shop will be liable. Seems foolhardy to me, too. If they lose even a few sales, it will far outweigh to Fabspeed the cost of dealing with my issue properly. I've received numerous PMs from people who will no longer consider purchasing ANY Fabspeed product.

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We' re talking racing products usually when there is the typical "off road use" disclaimer meant for race purposes. I don't know what this has to do with the clean air act. So you mean EPA can close down all those manufacturers of products for NASCAR and such?

This is probably why they don't give a rats-***. Figured they covered their bases. Shame. I bought from them in the past... wouldn't just in case something was off their warranty is worthless, apparently.

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That makes no sense though. With C.A.R.B. rules ALL of the Fabspeed products should carry this disclaimer, and they only put the disclaimer on the cat converter products. You will fail visual at any legitimate smog station with EVERY Fabspeed performance part in the state of California. You have the Fabspeed CAI- fail, Fabspeed mufflers- fail. Without the C.A.R.B. sticker, non-stock performance parts give you automatic fail. Hence why BBK, Injen intake and exhaust products come with stickers you have to attach under the hood for tech to see. Cali residents feel free to chime in.

I did some more research. Fabspeed's disclaimer is not legal, and the converters Fabspeed sells are not legal to be sold in CA . It's not even legal to advertise them for sale here . There is no off-road exemption in CA. Per CARB:

It's up to the buyer to know what to do and it doesn't mean people won't sell it to you. It's not just fabspeed; go to 911chips.com - Steve Wong chips are very popular. He's even located in Los Angeles. You cannot replace a chip in a car and be smog legal unless an executive order is obtained from the ARB ( http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm ) - yet it's not mentioned anywhere on his website for ordering that the chips are NOT legal. If you have a car in California, you have to leave it stock to comply. Part of auto ownership in the silly state.

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If you design and manufacture a part for a vehicle that is used "on road"... Businesses can disclaim all they want, the EPA still fines and shuts them down when they can't pay the fines. And in this case he was provided with an O2 extender for the sole purpose of defeating the catalytic converter monitoring functions in Motronic that Porsche certified to the EPA a few years back. If the catalytic converter was working then he wouldn't need the extender! Have you noticed many companies selling O2 simulators anytime recently?

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Mike, you're reading that with the incorrect context. Race vehicles not used on roads are not what they mean by "off road" - read further on the website and you'll see what they are talking about. CARB's reference to "off-road" is not the same as what auto part resellers for Porsches are talking about. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...ad/catpro2.pdf

^^^ The article in your link is from 1999. The laws changed in 2007.

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In the context of this case and the O2 extenders, I agree. My comment was more general as I haven't seen too many companies getting shut down over things like this in practice.

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Just trying to help you... regardless of it's adoption date, it's the current legislation. Here is where that document comes from (reviewed 5/9/2014): http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...ad/offroad.htm

Yup, sounds like it's Cuda's fault.

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I'd say it would be his mechanic's if the question was asked whether his car would be smog legal after the install, but that's not the point of the info I posted above.

I understand that Fabspeed may have protected itself from CARB issues with the disclaimer, but isn't the real issue here that these cats aren't functioning properly - that they are throwing CELs? For those of us who couldn't care less about CARB, I still have a problem with a $6,000 exhaust system that throws CELs. The O2 sensor extenders clearly are meant to fool the computer. Why should a quality system have to do that?

Thanks, Garrett. As far as I can tell, it is currently illegal for Fabspeed to market their cats here at all. But, in any case, certainly not for street cars. In addition, it appears to me that the mechanic who installed them has the main liability per CARB regulations. As KC says, no matter what the laws are, Fabspeed clearly is not standing behind their defective product and has apparently gone into hiding. Why would this be? Perhaps they know that what they are doing is illegal? I'm not an attorney, so that is simply speculation, not an accusation. Sure would be nice if Fabspeed would reply and provide a clear response, not marketing baloney. Then we wouldn't need to speculate.

This whole scenario is odd as I believed Fabspeed had a very good rep from what I have read over the years. Maybe they are undergoing management changes?

This. Had Fabspeed not chosen silence, I may have seen their point.

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It seems like they initially tried to do the right thing and then realized they had no way to actually do that and assign blame? If it tests positive for lead contamination (i don't know what procedure they would use) then its your fault. If its partially melted, then its your fault. If its clogged, it's your fault. Otherwise it is their problem and they need to provide a catalytic converter that will pass the Motronic test (the CARB visual inspection is YOUR problem) and pay the mechanics bill for the 2nd removal and re-installation. If they are unable to do that then they need to refund your money and the installation cost unless you were specifically warned before hand that you were beta-testing this for them on a 996 with a version of Motronic that they've never tried before.

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No, certainly there was no indication that I was beta-testing the cats for Fabspeed. Quite the opposite. They claim that they did extensive in-house testing in designing all of the components. I would be more than glad to send Fabspeed all of their stuff back for a refund.

You know, I really want Fabspeed to come out OK on this. They are a Rennlist sponsor and enthusiast focused - which means we should all root for them to succeed. I am certain that many of their customers are very demanding and can be unreasonable. But, unless there's something that we are all missing, Cuda seems to be taking the high road and being reasonable. Hopefully, someone at Fabspeed will come forward to rectify this situation as this thread doesn't seem like it is going to fade out onto Page 2 of the forums - I predict it will keep popping up at the top of Page 1 since many of us have to or want to replace all or part of an exhaust system and need to see whether Fabspeed is legit.

I disagree. I was very positive on Fabspeed until Cuda's situation. There was no better advertising for any company than Cuda when he first got his system. He paid a boatload for his setup and now that he has an issue, Fabspeed has been much less helpful. They promoted their product, took the sale from a qualified Indy and now they are offering inappropriate fixes. They should once and for all fix the problem and then determine what went wrong and assess who pays for what at that point.

Do a Fabspeed. search on RL and you will be rewarded with many hours of reading. A recent thread in the 997TT forum sheds light even cross referencing a thread from FerrariChat started from a few years back. Only you can form your own opinion about Fabspeed and their method of operation.

Dstutler & chsu: From what I'm seeing in this thread, I agree completely with you. My point is that I want Fabspeed to step up and make Cuda happy, and I want them to be a good company that makes good products and stands behind them when customer service issues inevitably pop-up. Every business has customer service issues that have to be resolved - it is how those issues are resolved that makes the difference. There is no maximum limit on companies that do things the right way - they can all choose to be good or all choose to be bad. So, as an enthusiast, I want every company that specializes in and caters to car enthusiasts to come down on the good side of the equation. I want them to provide great products and service to all of us, and I want all enthusiast customers to be happy with these companies and I want these companies to be financially successful. For example, I think everyone on Rennlist would agree that MotorMeister was a chitbag company run by crooks. Also, I think every comment I've ever seen about ECS Tuning has been glowingly positive (I have no connection to ECS Tuning by the way, other than being a satisfied customer). I want every enthusiast-oriented company to be like ECS Tuning - I can blindly order from ECS and know that I will get great service and that I won't get ripped off. So, my point is that I want Fabspeed to be like ECS Tuning. As it stands right now, they smell a lot like MotorMeister.

I've also had very good experience with ECS multiple times. As for Fabspeed, they were scratched off the list the minute I saw their dyno sheets and marketing claims way back when. They're definitely not the only ones but I digress.

And still... Fabspeed remains silent... incredible.

kcattorney, Read through the threads regarding Fabspeed and you will know the whole story. The real issues is that they claim all of their product is "Made in USA" while there are import records of suppliers in Taiwan selling to Fabspeed. Consumers may have been mislead with Fabspeed claims not only to product performance but also origin. That is the claim Fabspeed uses to overcharge their product line..

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^This

Update: 8/20/2014 Yesterday I got a voice mail from Alex at Fabspeed to give him a call. I left him a voice mail this afternoon, but have not yet received a call-back. Then a few minutes ago, I received a PM from Joe at Fabspeed. Because Rennlist does not permit posting the contents of PMs, I will keep his comments confidential. Let's just say that he's not a happy camper.

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Then it's unanimous!

Wow! No public announcement to make things right? Well, I guess it's all your fault for buying their overpriced poor quality crap with no customer service. Maybe I can think of a better way to spend your hard earned money. There is a bridge for sale. PM me.

Incidentally, CA residents may get a treat in the mail with their renewal requires a smog check, indicating that you must have your car tested at a "STAR" station. California makes a half-hearted effort to imply that being selected for testing at a "STAR" station is somehow random, but in fact the selection process is designed to increase the likelihood that your car will fail inspection. The bureau of automotive repair's regulation of the "STAR" station is VERY stringent compared to non-"STAR" stations. So, for example, the visual inspection that is cursory at best at many smog joints is ridiculously thorough at a "STAR" station. We're talking mirrors-on-sticks, crawling around to verify that nothing aftermarket is installed, and any CARB stickers are present. The algorithm that selects which cars will undergo this additional scrutiny is insane. If your car has a history of issues with smog, you'll be selected. Since YOUR car has a history of issues passing, other cars of the same make and model will fall under additional scrutiny. Cars that are SIMILAR to cars that fail - i.e. shared components - fall under additional scrutiny. Finally, cars that fall into groups that may have an increased likelihood of failing due to installation of non-CARB-approved parts may have an increased likelihood of failing. Because you drive a 911, and because 911 drivers may have a propensity to install non-CARB-approved parts, YOUR car can be selected for additional scrutiny regardless of your own inspection history. If you have a fancy aftermarket high-flow-cat-equipped-X-pipe - even one that does a great job of reducing unwanted emissions - you will fail the visual inspection, your car will be flagged for future years, and people who drive similar cars will mysteriously find themselves directed to a "STAR" station for their next smog check. I have never failed a smog check, and until this year, I never had to go to one of the "enhanced" stations (what they now call "STAR" stations) for a smog check. This year, both my 911 and my Corvette were "randomly" selected for this enhanced scrutiny. While Cuda's problem should be made right, the rest of the story is that Cuda will NEVER legally pass inspection with obviously aftermarket headers and cats, and the state has found a way to greatly increase the likelihood that we'll be nailed. I don't know what makes me madder - this jerking around of Cuda, or California's jerking around of those of us who - EVEN THOUGH WE CAN PASS EMISSIONS TESTING - will get failed on a technicality and generate additional revenue for the DMV and BAR.

Uh... I think Cali needs to put more money into better ways to fight/prevent forest fires rather than trying to go after small shrimp. With all these fires as of late, it definitely overshadows anything a few cars can do. Plus as long as you're not polluting the air and within legal readings, who cares what products are used? Rant off

Looks like fabspeed might need to put a couple more bucks into customer service 101.

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I've been wondering if it's possible to preemptively smog check the car to keep yourself off the STAR list. I've got a few mods planned that wouldn't pass visual, but have a Unichip, and was thinking of having a smog map written next time we are tuning for something. It would be nice to have longer intervals between returning the car to visual inspection ready. ...or just register it out of state where they don't have smog checks...:roll eyes: I can't believe what I spend on car and bike registrations here vs. other states I've lived in previously.

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There are cities/counties in California which do not require smog checks at all. Just need an address there to register your car!

8/21/2014: Well, Alex still hasn't returned my call, and Joe still hasn't returned my email. Another issue you guys are missing: It is now impossible to sell my car in CA. It is the seller's responsibility at the time of a sale to get a smog check and make sure it passes smog. So, the only way I could sell it is to shell out a ton to return everything to OEM. This has been quite the learning process for me. It all started when I had a rattling cat last year, and took it to the shop. The mechanic strongly recommended the Fabspeed set-up as a better alternative to just buying new OEM cats. At that time, I asked both the mechanic and Fabspeed if it would pass CA smog. Both informed me that it would, so I decided to go with the Fabspeed system. At that time, I was not aware of the "visual" portion of the smog check. I would just take my cars to the smog shop, pay the fee, and read a magazine while they were doing the smog check. Then, they'd give me a print-out of the emissions, and I was on my way. After all, studying exhaust regulations is not my area of professional background. Normally, when one goes to a repair shop, do they study the regulations of every part that is replaced? No. Considering that Fabspeed IS in the exhaust business, it's nearly impossible for me to believe that they were not aware of these issues in CA, and in my opinion should have at least informed me. Especially, since I directly asked Fabspeed if it would pass CA smog, and they said yes. But, this is all a digression from the original issue at hand: The Fabspeed cats started throwing CELs after a few months, and Fabspeed is refusing to honor their warranty.

Lol. Now that's funny.

Cuda I would post a WTB for OEM cats. People may have them kicking around the garage that they might be willing to help you out.

Hi chsu, I saved my old cats. One of them was starting to rattle, which is why I swapped them out. It's my understanding that a rattle doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad. So, I will probably pay someone to swap them when my next smog is due in early 2015. Of course, if the smog place wants to be "difficult" it will still fail for the headers, x pipe, air intake tube, etc. If my old cats are still good, it will still cost me some bucks every two years to swap them out and back, and I will always have to keep my fingers crossed about the rest of the exhaust system. I also had a VERY generous offer from a local RL member that said he would loan me his cats if necessary. What a great bunch here!!! If Joe would send me a black air intake tube instead of the red one, that would help things by not getting the smog guy's attention so quickly. But, that's never gonna happen. Maybe I should paint it. Looks like I'm not the only one here with current Fabspeed woes. Check out this current thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...t-do-i-do.html Say it ain't so, Joe!!

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$5 black high temp paint. Just rattle that can and walk away. Fabspeed have damaged their reputation beyond repair here and that is perhaps the reason no good will is coming from them. Sad story of another greed and deception catching up..

Not to be a Monday morning quarterback, but this is the downside of message boards. Sometimes it helps your case to publicize and sometimes it doesn't. Personally, I would have started here . If that didn't work, then make it public.

Are any aftermarket headers or 200 cell cats are carb certified? Just wondering? Mike

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Nada zilch nine.

The fabspeed drama just gets worse. But don't sweat the CA smog visual inspection, the majority of smog stations will just look to make sure you have cats. Very few if any will take the trouble to read the codes on the cats and run reference checks. Find a shop near you and make "friends". Buy your gas their, take your wife's car their for an oil change or two and get to know the tech. Then when you smog your turbo he won't go out of his way other than to confirm you've got some kind of cats on the car.

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This was true in my reality two years ago. If you get "STAR" selected, believe me, a case of beer is not sufficient to ensure passing. CARB and BAR are spending a lot of time and money monitoring these stations to eradicate the halfassed inspections we have been used to.

^^^ Yep. The last three of my cars that came due for smog required STAR facilities. Those guys get to charge three times as much for the exact same inspection, so they go out of their way to fail you and keep the STAR cert.

Update 8/22/2014: Well, Joe never returned my PMs or emails. Alex never returned my calls. But, interestingly, today I got a call from Mickey at Fabspeed. He says there was miscommunication within Fabspeed, and that this is clearly a warranty issue. I do have to say, Mickey was very polite and professional. So, he says he will be sending some new cats to my mechanic. Of course, this doesn't addresses the smog/legality issue. But, really all I wanted is for the cats to be replaced under warranty. And, if they fail again while under warranty, I will expect the same. Will keep you updated!

I thought you'd heard this one before - and a pair of anti-foulers showed up.

^^^ Yep, correct.... I may be wrong, but just "maybe" I finally got Fabspeed's attention enough that they will follow through this time.

Good news! I do hope they make it, right. I root for all businesses to thrive, while doing what's right.

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Niche - is that you from the SOC? If so good to see you on here too!

I talked to Fabspeed today about an unrelated issue. At the conclusion of the call i mentioned this issue was causing them the loss of a lot of good will. Evan is not there anymore and the person said they would look into to it. To the OP I hope you get the resolution you clearly deserve!

SOC? What does that stand for?

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Here: http://www.acronymfinder.com/SOC.html

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Speedster owner club. Your avatar is the same as one over there. Sorry, thought that might be you...guess not.

JC getting his face ripped off is a popular photo.

Dang, I thought I was being original! Jk, I just love that episode

Update 8/27/2014: Yesterday Mickey from Fabspeed called me and again said that he will be sending replacement cats to the mechanic and that they should be there soon. He sounded sincere, so fingers are crossed. Joe never bothered to follow up with me. Perhaps he has asked Mickey to do so for him, I don't know. Will keep you posted.

Good news! Hoping for the best.

8/28/2014: Thanks, Javier. I got a call from the shop today. The parts have arrived! Taking the car in tomorrow to go under the knife.

Nice!

See, Cuda, that wasn't so hard at all.

Cuda - great to finally see some movement on Fabspeed's behalf. Hope this resolves your issue, but for me, the damage is done.

8/29/2014 Update: OK, car's back from the shop. Mickey from Fabspeed came through on his promise, and sent me new cats, and also sent a new X-pipe. The old one had a welded tube design, and the new one is cast, so that gives it a smoother internal bore. Anyway, I'm pleased with the parts. Guys, thanks for all the support here! I have my doubts that anything would have happened to resolve this without all of the great feedback from you. Been quite the trip to get to this point!!! So, time to put this thread to rest for now. I will resurrect it if CEL comes back, and also when my smog is due, to give you all an update. Here's a few pix. Someone asked to see the internals of the original cats that Fabspeed provided. See first pic below. The next is the interior of the new ones that were put on today. I had the extenders removed, but am saving them. .

Congrats and enjoy them in good health! The internal looks exactly like mine from Carnewal, quality HJS 200 cell insert.

So how are they working out?

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That would be a good thing, but no.

Not sure how I missed this thread before... Just read it through. Quite a story! I have to say that Fabspeed saying "...there was miscommunication within Fabspeed..." is like calling a 100 car pile-up a fender bender. More like a complete, systemic customer service failure. Glad they sent you new cats though. I learned my 'Fabspeed lesson' quite a few years ago with their Touareg V8 bypass pipes. No need to relive it, but lets just say they have not been on my personal 'approved vendor' list for quite a few years.

This is ridiculous. Totally put me off from these.

I too had missed this thread. It is a shame when any consumer experiences this level of poor service but poor service after a 6K investment is inexcusable. Fabspeed may try to come up with some but none will be appropriate. I have taken Fabspeed off of my list of potential vendors and I hope that many others have too. Let this be the power of RL.

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Got a CEL a few days ago, but I'm still trying to figure out if it has anything to do with the cats. By the way, I replaced all four O2 sensors. I cleared it and am waiting to see if it comes back. .

Looks like a fault code due to the exhaust gas reading too lean. What software are you using, Durametric?

^^^ I'm using an OBDII dongle with Torque Pro app on my Android. "DBPOWER� Super Mini ELM327 V1.5 OBD2 OBD-II Bluetooth CAN-BUS Auto Diagnostic Tool for Windows XP, Vista, Win7, and Android" Link to the OBDII interface: Amazon.com: DBPOWER� Super Mini ELM327 V1.5 OBD2 OBD-II Bluetooth CAN-BUS Auto Diagnostic Tool for Windows XP, Vista, Win7, and Android: Automotive Amazon.com: DBPOWER� Super Mini ELM327 V1.5 OBD2 OBD-II Bluetooth CAN-BUS Auto Diagnostic Tool for Windows XP, Vista, Win7, and Android: Automotive

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Hi Mike, were these numbers before or after the O2 sensors replacement?

After. Replaced o2 sensors at the same time cats were replaced.

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I see. Not a whole lot of margin before the cat tests fail Hope they stay healthy.

This fault should be based on the pre-cat O2 sensor, so it's not likely cat related.

Cuda, how is the car running? mo better power & "seat of the pants" with all the new hardware? Cell ok? just curious-

I'm very curious if there is a non cat related issue. When they first sent the O2 sensor extensions, I thought that was a good way to prove if the cats were bad or not. If the CEL came back with the extensions on, than it would seem it was not the cat in the first place.

Well, so far after resetting it the second time, CEL has not come back. Drove the car hard this weekend for several hundred miles of back-country twisties. Also, I guess Fabspeed is now monitoring the forums a bit better. Last week, out of the blue, I got a call from Mickey at Fabspeed, and he left a detailed message on my voice mail with some information as to what to check out regarding the CEL. Haven't had a chance yet to check it out, but I appreciate the info. Got my smog renewal notice in the mail last week, so now the fun starts to see whether or not I can get the car to pass smog. Will keep you posted.

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Hey cuda, glad everything is working out now after your bad experience. We still sincerely apologize for the trouble. We're trying to step our game up with monitoring the forums and making sure things go smoothly for our customers. Feel free to keep in touch and let me know how everything is going. My email is [email removed] I'll do what I can to make sure you don't run into any other bad experiences with the company.

YIPPPPPEEEEE..... Passed Smog today!!!!!! I took it to a place that a friend who also has a Faspeed exhaust went to a few weeks ago for his smog. When the smog guy started poking around under the car with his flashlight, I was thinking... "ahh... sh*t, the jig's up!" My stomach's still in knots from the stress, not knowing what the smog shop guy was going to say about the modded exhaust. Engaged in some friendly banter with the guy, etc., and he signed off on it. Thanks, Anthony. I appreciate the comments, and from my recent experiences, it looks like Fabspeed is stepping up to the plate.

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Woot!!!! Glad everything worked out! You're welcome for the comments. Let me know if there's anything Fabspeed can do for you. I'll personally make sure it works out smoothly. I believe it's time for you to relax and enjoy your pipes now that you've passed smog. The knots can untangle now. Anthony [email removed]

The cause of the check engine light is because the jig at fabspeed was incorrect. If you look at the rear exhaust bung for the oxygen sensor you will notice that it points into the exhaust stream. I only discovered this after 4 months waiting for parts from Fabspeed. First they said it was the car and I needed an oxygen sensor extender. When they didnt fix the problem they said I needed a tune. I have installed tons of these pipes and never needed a tune. After countless conversations with Fabspeed I refunded my customers money and have the pipes. I took my own pipe off of my 996 which had no check engine light and noticed that the bungs were situated differently. At that point I contacted Fabspeed and they said they would look into it. I asked them if I could send back a pipe and have the oxygen sensor bung installed the correct way and they said they could do it for a fee. I ended up using my local machine shop to correct one set of bungs. In the 4 months time I had two customers of mine call Fabspeed only to be told that I was installing the pipes incorrectly or tough luck. They never once admitted that it could be something on their end. Since that time I stopped purchasing parts from Fabspeed. After a few months I was called by Fabspeed to ask if I needed anything and to introduce my new sales rep. I told him that my last sales rep lied to me and refused to refund. He wasted my time and my customers time. Not the way I would expect a company like Fabspeed to behave. Fast forward one month, my news sales rep sincerely apologized and said he would gladly accept the pipes back and credit my account. After sending the pipes back I didn't hear anything for a month and then I got a call from Fabspeed. They wondered why I sent the pipes back. I told them because I was asked to. At that point they said they couldn't give me a refund and shipped my pipes back to me today. Not a company I will be dealing with any longer. Dan FitzGerald Geneva Foreign & Sports

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OH Snap, Anthony, didn't you say things were changing for the better?

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It seems like only the vocal ones on the internet get any resolution as part of damage control. There, I said it.

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Dan, the O2 sensors seem to be in same relative locations on my 993 OEM cat vs. the Fabspeed x-pipe cat. (photo below) I have no CEL or other issues - perhaps you can post some photos to better explain your problem?

If you look at this picture of the pipe you can see the rear oxygen sensor bung location and orientation. The bung is actually pointing towards the incoming exhaust gas. In the original pipes it was mounted 180 degrees differently. The bungs were simply swapped from side to side during production. With this configuration you will never get the CEL off with just oxygen sensor spacers. The solution would be to have the bungs shaved off and welded on in their correct orientation.

Hoo boy. Well, I certainly hope Fabspeed posts a response here that makes sense to us all. At least they are now monitoring the forums. Anthony @ Fabspeed: Can you look into this and have someone from Fabspeed post a clear and detailed response here? No marketing mumbo jumbo thrown in. Just address the facts, please. Thanks. Also, regarding Dan's statement: As everyone here is abundantly aware, this is the same sort of stuff I encountered over and over with Fabspeed. Does Joe still have earmuffs and blinders on?

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Dan, I am having a difficulty understanding that the O2 sensor angle of 45' vs. 90' will cause a CEL? Logic would dictate that an Oxygen sensor would not car about the orientation in the exhaust stream...

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PLZ clarify the logic, directing a stream of hot gasses at an perforated object from different angles will certainly change how the gasses move through the perforation....

Ted, thanks for the question. The way that the rear oxygen sensor works is by looking at the waveform generated by the switching of the oxygen sensor. When a catalytic converter neutralizes the gasses the waveform is very small +/- .2V and that is what is to be expected of a properly functioning catalytic converter. When you remove the cats you get a signal that mimicks the front sensor +/- .7V. That is when the check engine light comes on for your P0420 and P0430. Now, to trick the sensor we would want to move it slightly out of the exhaust stream. We dont want to eliminate the exhaust stream all together we simply want to dampen its effects on the sensor. So by installing an oxygen sensor extender this can be accomplished. The problem is that when you have the exhaust being forced into the face of the sensor its almost impossible to trick the sensor. The optimum way to do this would be to mount the sensor flush (it hits the engine mount) or change the angle. Do you understand?

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Got it ... thanks.

So, in synopsis... 1) This problem is STILL not resolved?? 2) Without going thru the agony of reading the other 13+ previous pages, did FabSpeed acknowledge and give a full refund (including for agony and bureaucratic obstructionism)? 3) Pinging off your very first, initial, posting --- are we STILL not supposed to BASH FabSpeed?

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...mw-f82-m4.html

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Stasha, Cuda's problem was resolved. Here is the synopsis, since you did not "go thru the agony of reading the other 13+ previous pages"

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Ray, I don't get the point of your link. Still waiting for Fabspeed to chime in here regarding dfitz21's issue.

Mike, Hope all is well - how is the new engine search going?

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Good. I just heard from the guy in Houston today (the one with the engine I'm buying). An RL member will be checking it out for me shortly. I'll post updates in my blown motor thread.

Still no resolution, calls or emails. Dan

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To Dan and all, I want to clear a few things up regarding your concerns on the parts and this transaction. I apologize for any inconvenience this caused regarding the parts and troubleshooting; problems do happen and we try to take care of them quickly. Fabspeed has - and always will - make improvements to its products over time. As for the bung angle on the Catbypass X-Pipe� We were made aware of the error when Dan contacted us and sent over photos and stated that the O2 spacers would not install properly. The angle of the O2 sensors is important as it can affect the readings and trigger CE lights. We did verify everything and tested it on a vehicle in-house with positive results. We made the correction right away and verified that there weren't more parts shipped to customers without the update. Regarding the installation, we always ask and verify that the proper steps were taken during the install process to make sure there isn't another problem occurring. If any one of our customers had an issue, we took care of the modifications and covered the shipping charges as well. We would never charge a fee for this, so I�m not sure where that allegation came from. So when the parts were returned, they were being returned for inspection and to have the modifications completed. It should be noted at this point, however, that these are catbypass pipes, so check engine lights can occur from time to time and there is no warranty for that, as they are recommended for track and off road use only. We do offer O2 spacers to minimize the occurrence of a check engine light, but it�s not a guarantee. That is why we offer the option to tune the ECU and de-sensitize the secondary O2 sensors to eliminate the light from coming on. That is normal practice and we do that for lots of our customers who are running a cat-less setup on their race cars. In closing, the parts were returned and inspected thoroughly in our fixture, and the bung angles were updated. We then returned the updated parts back to the customer (dfitz21) to be re-installed. The parts have been used and were purchased over 6 months ago, so we do not offer refunds at that point. I hope this clears everything up. We are here to answer any other questions you may have. Thanks,

Hmmm... seems to me that a huge percentage of that 6 months was him trying to get the problem rectified, once he found that the angle was wrong. And, he had to figure that out for himself, there was no recall or notification or anything, at least as far as Dan has indicated.

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^^ That was the point. This thread was being ignored, all while a new sales thread was started. It appears the bump did generate a response.

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The fact is according to Dan at least, is your rep told him to return the items for a refund. He followed your instructions only for it to be renig'd later. I don't think that's cool at all to go back on someone's word. If the rep was a new guy, he should've either corrected himself in a timely fashion by admitting his mistake and communicating it to Dan or taken the hit out of his pocket as a learning lesson. You don't tell someone they are getting a refund and renig on it, especially from a business.

This is a great way to lose business. Btw what happened to Anthony, he didn't last very long?!

[QUOTE=Alex@fabspeed;11878418]To Dan and all, I want to clear a few things up regarding your concerns on the parts and this transaction. I apologize for any inconvenience this caused regarding the parts and troubleshooting; problems do happen and we try to take care of them quickly. Fabspeed has - and always will - make improvements to its products over time. .... The parts have been used and were purchased over 6 months ago, so we do not offer refunds at that point. I hope this clears everything up. QUOTE] I guess my personal concern is that I have had a Fabspeed exhaust for over 2 years, awaiting installation in a project car. So, 1) am I gonna have a problem when I finally get to that end of the project, ...and 2) of course, it will be over 6 months time frame, beyond your 6 month timeframe, ...and lastly, 3) How can I visually identify if my exhaust is problematic without mounting it? thanks.

The problem is that I purchased these X Pipes and highly recommended them to my customers. When their check engine light came on I knew that this could occur and I knew that it could be remedied with an oxygen sensor spacer. After trying multiple oxygen sensor extenders of different lengths and waiting for over 6 weeks for you to fabricate me an extender because you forgot you were out of stock created some problems. What really pissed me off was when my customers called in and were told that we were probably installing the part incorrectly so that we looked like idiots. Then you told another customer that the pipes always require a tune and hes going to have troubles with a check engine light for the rest of the time he owns the car. At this point I have one customer that thinks we are incompetent and another customer that thinks I lied to him because I didn't tell him he needed a tune. I refunded both customers and now have 2 x pipes sitting in a box. Can you see how that might make me a little angry? How long have I been recommending & installing your parts? Why did my new account rep call me last month, agree with everything that I told him and asked me to ship back the pipes for a full refund? Then you ship the pipes back to me. The quality of your products has never been poor but lying to me and my customers is a very poor way to conduct business. Dan FitzGerald

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I am still here very much enjoying my time at Fabspeed. I requested that Alex respond to Dan because Alex had been in contact with Dan initially. Dan had spoken to different representatives which are no longer with the company, making the situation a bit difficult in regards to communication. [QUOTE=stasha;11879681] We appreciate you purchasing our Fabspeed Exhaust for your project car, you will be very pleased with the upgrades. The Fabspeed products are covered by our Limited Lifetime Warranty, which means that if there any problems or concerns during the installation of the Fabspeed Exhaust, we will rectify the issue promptly. We will absolutely stand by the integrity of the product and we have detailed instructions on our website that will guide you through the installation process. You can also contact us directly with any questions you have and I can send you that information as well.

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[QUOTE=Sales@FabSpeed;11880228]I am still here very much enjoying my time at Fabspeed. I requested that Alex respond to Dan because Alex had been in contact with Dan initially. Dan had spoken to different representatives which are no longer with the company, making the situation a bit difficult in regards to communication. So far all I've heard are excuses and marketing blah but no resolution for Dan. It was your company that interviewed/trained/hired whatever rep is no longer there. It was your company that made the bung placement error. I still don't understand after selling numerous parts on how a jig could change(assuming you guys manufacture this in house and also do QA testing in house). I guess the ball is in your court on how you want to handle this as a business but so far this seems to be going back down hill again from what I've been seeing/hearing.

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Alex posted yesterday regarding the resolution to the bung-angle issue. Please refer to that post for details, but here are a few snippets to address your direct question:

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What about the part where your reps told Dan to send the parts back for a "refund". That part...

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Dan was told that he would be issued a refund by a representative who is no longer with our company. This one example of why he is no longer with us. We returned Dan's piping back to him at our cost. We apologize for the miscommunication. If you would like more info about returns, feel free to email [email removed]

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You guys have got to be the biggest bunch of bull**** artists I have ever come across. Here you have several pages intricately documenting your actions. In addition we have statements from various vaguely literate sales people who have no idea what the history of the case is, or what the correct solution would be to save face. So here is what I recommend to you to save face, given that this is the biggest Porsche forum, in your biggest target market (no don't bother, all other supercar manufacturers churn out only a fraction of what is represented here): 1- Grow a spine and admit you ****ed up 2- Fix the issues represented here, and post proof that you are in control of the QC of your product 3- Deliver some customer service to your established customers and retailers, not just the ones represented on this forum, but all of them (you know who I am talking about). Being arrogant and assuming you are not to blame for your products failure just because X period has passed, will not fly. I could go on, but you already know all the other points I would raise. It is time to live up to the inflated prices of your products, and start manufacturing something truly outstanding, with customer service to back it up. I know you have the ability, now do it FFS PS, no one cares about reps who are no longer with your company, fact is that they made offers of restitution whilst they were your representatives, it is your legal and moral duty to follow up all commitments made by your legal representatives. Call me if you need some help putting this in place.

I have had a fabspeed exhaust put on one of my cars. I originally asked my porsche dealer if they would install and they said "we would never install a part we would have to apologize for". Now I am seeing why. I loved my 986 fabspeed catback exhaust. Well built and sounded great but now wanting one on my 996 I may be re thinking. We just want these cars to work and aftermarket parts free from issues. Customer service mean just that....if one of my employees screws up...we take the heat....

Alex from Fabspeed called today. He apologized for his companies actions. He is going to try and resell my pipes at a discount for me. He promised it wouldnt happen in the future. I have never had a problem with the quality of their products.

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Huh! I've got to tell you, although I cannot speak of present day QC issues or really any of the stuff in this thread, I've had a FabSpeed header, cat, exhaust system on my 996 for 10 years, 100K + miles. I personally love the raspy throaty sound and I have never had any problems with the entire setup. No CEL's, no O2 sensor problems, no nothing. The chrome exhaust all the way back to the headers looks brand new (I do get up under there and polish every once in awhile). I know there are other exhaust systems that some rave about, but I still love my FabSpeed.

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Dan, Thank you for taking time out to speak to us. We are looking forward to working with you again. Thank you for the review. I'm glad that you love your Fabspeed Headers on your 996!

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Thanks for the update. In the world of the internet these days, it's far better situation to lose a little bit money up front than to risk thousands later in lost business and opportunity costs due to tarnished reputation IMO. If it were me, I would've refunded you and then just put the used items as b-stock/demo items to sell and eat a little bit of the cost rather than to risk my reputation. A lot of bricks and mortars company sometimes have a hard time realizing this. Glad you got some resolution.

Thanks for the updates, guys, this is how it should work. Some professional discourse, and then a mutually agreeable resolution.

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Like I said...loved my 986 fabspeed. The sound was outstanding.

I came across this thread a few days after i had ordered my fabspeed gt3 cat bypass xpipe. While reading the through the entire thread, i was hoping my experience would be better. I got my parts a few days ago and drop them off at my mechanic to install. as i am getting home, i get a call from my mechanic and he proceeds to tell me that the pipe was built wrong (o2 censor space was not compatible with the o2 censor spacers). I stated to get a little upset while hearing this and this thread came to mind. My mechanic recommended i get someone from fabspeed to call him to have him explain the problem. After they talked, it turned out that the spacers fabspeed sent were the wrong ones and fabspeed willingly shipped the new ones overnight and everything went smoothly. I just got my car back today and it sounds/feels amazing. In my case, even though fabspeed initially packaged the wrong items and i was a little upset, they took care of it properly and with a sense of urgency.

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I should hope so after this recent PR nightmare.

Jeez, I worked about 4 decades for the government, and we used to always say that the govt had quality problems because we could not fire people. Is QC in the govt looking better, or is the civ side slacking off?

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Civ side is slacking, as money now grows on trees, it has to, to keep up with the various bailout programs

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I'm still angry that any of the major lobbyist didn't own a 996 and couldn't get a m96 bailout program presented and passed. Porschbamacare