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YOUR RESEARCHEngine Longevity?!?
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Install 40k miles ago
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The car I bought had a new motor installed 40K miles ago.
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5000 mile oil/filter changes and other fluids and filters changed on schedule or slighly sooner.
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of course this applies to vehicles used on a daily basis...
Replace drivers, see fairly constant engine loading
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Suggestion
Cars are allowed scheduled vital fluid/filter services and save for those and pitstops to fuel and change drivers, see fairly constant engine loading.
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Suggestion
120K, just finished replacing the first clutch and RMS.
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Suggestion
Given reasonable care -- and that 15,000 or more oil change interval is not reasonable care but abuse in my book -- and keeping up on the little things -- a coolant leak that can on a real hot day see engine "suddenly" overheat can ruin an otherwise fine engine -- as they come up and avoiding accidents (as time goes by accidents account for no small percentage of otherwise older higher mileage but still very fine autos being removed from the road cause an older higher mileage car not worth what it would take to fix it) should see you driving that car as long as you want.
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Hi All,
I've been thinking about buying an '02 996..but I'm getting cold feet after hearing stories of IMS / RMS issues. I tend to have my cars a while, and
usually put alot of mileage on them... So my question is this: How many miles can I expect from a 996 (WITHOUT an engine replacement)? Who has the most miles on his car on this BBS? ...and how many miles are on it?
TIA,
MP-In-The-Wind
120K, just finished replacing the first clutch and RMS. Drove it today first time after six weeks on jackstands in the garage. Took it to redline four or five times today, I love this car. Especially after driving the Westfalia VW Van during the lay up, 80 HP pushing 4500lbs. I could see around traffic but it did no good, I could bot pass a Beetle in that thing.
Hoping for another 120k...
Still on original clutch.
5000 mile oil/filter changes and other fluids and filters changed on schedule or slighly sooner. I'd much rather look at a slightly larger stack of parts invoices than just one invoice for a replacement engine.
Then just drive the car. Worst thing you can do is not use car. I know the common fate for many of these cars is to spend years sitting around but they are really designed to be driven. All the auto designers's efforts are directed to seeing these cars run well with believe it or not zero wear and for a long long time with no problems. Running is the natural state of these engines and cars. Sitting still is just what they do between use.
(Zero wear is right. There can''t be any signficant wear when running with *fresh* and *clean* oil otherwise my car's engine would not have lasted for 219K miles and continues to run as good today as it ever did.)
Let engine get some heat before you drive off and drive below 4000 or even lower until engine has had time to get to operating temperature. This can take sometimes 10 or more miles if real cold.
I also avoid shutting off engine immediately after a high speed run. (No tracking for me.) What I mean is for instance running sometimes 80mph on freeway (legal in west Texas) and then exiting and pulling into gas station and shutting off engine immediately. Instead I'll slow down some before I get to the exit and drive car easy for a minute or two -- even letting it idle a minute if it comes to that -- before shutting off engine.
Given reasonable care -- and that 15,000 or more oil change interval is not reasonable care but abuse in my book -- and keeping up on the little things -- a coolant leak that can on a real hot day see engine "suddenly" overheat can ruin an otherwise fine engine -- as they come up and avoiding accidents (as time goes by accidents account for no small percentage of otherwise older higher mileage but still very fine autos being removed from the road cause an older higher mileage car not worth what it would take to fix it) should see you driving that car as long as you want.
Sincerely,
Macster.
+1 ... and original clutch is also indicative of your driving style... somebody loves their car!
+1 so important not to mess around for first 10 min or so at the high rpm..
no tracking = long life... do 20 track events a year I'll bet the farm you'll get 1/3 (at most!) the life out of that motor...
good advice though...
Do you really think tracking sucks that much life out of these engines? I would think again with the proper maintenance the impact on an unmodified engine shouldn't be *that* significant...right?
well... those people who track eventually end up having issues over a 4 year period... especially if your doing like 15 track days per year... tracking is hard on the car... causes oil starvation and bearing wear and high temps etc...
I think the impact is indeed *significant*...
+1. Engine life probably can be approximated into how many revolutions it turns; extended by the frequency of oil changes and other maintainance measures.
When you run on track at 5k rpm and above, it is a little bit different than purring on the highway in 6th gear at 2800 rpm. This is not even mentioning the extra stress you are putting on the components at the higher RPMs.
Therefore, your logic implies that your car will last forever if driven constantly at 7,000 rpm without stopping? I will take this bet anyday.
I believe Jake is implying that the engine will fail less often not that the engine will run forever.
You do realize that these cars are built in Germany where there is no such thing as purring along at 2800 rpm on the autobahn? Doing a dozen trackdays a year here, would be the equivalent wear and tear of two weeks of commuting to work for the average German. These cars are engineered for sustained high rev use.
Sounds logical to me.
Personally I would think that it is mostly oil starvation in hard corners and the extreme pressures caused by WOT hundereds of time per session. Hard acceleration will cause stress on the oil as well as the seals.
Not every single paved road in Germany is without speed limits. Heck ,there are only certain parts of the autobahn that have no speed limits. Germany is now considering implementing speed limits on autobahns.
of my info. But IIRC a modern gasoline engine as a useful life of something like 10,000 hours.
How you use car, drive car then depends upon how many miles you get out of car. If someone uses teh car in such a way the average speed over those 10,000 hours is 15 miles per hour then then engine's reached that 10,000 hour running time at 150,000 miles.
Average 45mph and 10,000 hours is 450,000 miles.
Hard to average 45mph with much city driving.
I'm amazed when I record my driving in a data logger and review it or monitor my driving with an on-board computer or GPS device and note how just a few minutes of city/stop and go driving, just idling on the gas station apron while I note odometer reading, trip odometer reading, etc. before moving off, how much highway driving at legal highway speed is required to bring that speed average up to anywhere near even 60mph. When I'm really careful and keep my idle and slow speed driving at bare minimum and get back on the freeway as soon as possible I can sometimes get the average speed to pretty close to the legal limit. But just a short stop sees that speed average drop like a rock.
Those "tests" where an automaker decides to run a car on a closed track for say 100,000 miles at a high speed. Those are easy on the car. Cars are allowed scheduled vital fluid/filter services and save for those and pitstops to fuel and change drivers, see fairly constant engine loading. Sure high rpms, but oil is fresh, at high pressure (no cold starts, etc.), and engine and oil at operating temperature always.
Tracking is hard on a car. Engine is being asked to deliver near peak output much more frequently. Engine being subjected to high heat load and high mechanical stresses. Good engine maintenance (fresh oil/filter) can help prevent trouble from older less fresh oil breaking down under these conditions, but can't protect the engine against mechanical stresses.
That an engine lasts as long as it does when being tracked just shows the amount of margin these engines have. One can use that margin to drive 450,000 miles over the years or track car x number of sessions per year for y years.
Chances are the tracked car will get moved on before margins are used up so whoever buys that car ends up suffering the depreciation tracking a car subjects the car to.
I'd never buy a tracked car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
^ I think this info is quite right on highway mile useage. The car service I use that make airport runs typically logs around 100K miles per year. I have seen towncars with over 700K miles on the clock and continue to run beautifully.
I have never seen a NYC taxi with over 150K miles that is running on all cylinders smoothly.
I know, I lived in Europe for years and visit frequently. Last time I was there, my rental A3 TDI sportline was flat to the floor along with other less "worthy" vehicles on the 'bahn whenever it was possible and legal to do so. Little old ladies will go flat out in 20 year old Opels over there. In NA we drive like pussies and think our p-cars are made of glass held together by fairy dust.
well... not quite... you don't experience the g-forces and cornering and braking you do on the autobahn... authobahn is all strait line driving... big difference... highway driving as well... its easy on the car... unless your going 180 MPH sustained for like 20 minutes a day ... but I don't think you can do that speed for that long in Germany... also high speed driving gives your car serious cooling vs tracking where you are constantly braking and accelerating... I too would never buy a tracked vehicle...
I believe over the long term the average speed of all vehicles is approx 30 mph... of course this applies to vehicles used on a daily basis... its a way of checking to see if the odo has been "rolled back" by some unscrupulous seller... mileage / engine hours ~ 30 mph... if its off by much then you know its been tampered with...
I rarely purr along at only 2800rpms. I consider less than 3000 to be almost lugging the engine. When my rpms are less than 3000, I put it into 5th gear. I've conditioned myself to avoid any low rpm/high gear combination.
I drop it DOWN to 5th gear when rpm is LESS than 3000, to keep it above 3000. If I slow down a little bit, and rpms go below 3000, I'll drop it down to 4th to keep it above 3000. I only use the overdrive gear when I'm cruising at about 75mph or above.
The lower the gear, the lower the rpms can be without it lugging under acceleration. For instance, 2000rpms is no big deal at all if you're in 1st or 2nd gear. Obviously, to accelerate from those rpms in those gears isn't going to lug the engine much at all, because of the high ratios. Similarly I don't think being at 3000 in 5th gear is lugging much for "normal" acceleration, though I'd drop it to 4th if I was going to pass someone.
I don't actually think 2800 is necessarily "bad" in 6th gear anyway, IF you are just going to cruise along slowly without accelerating much or going up hill - but I like it being more responsive in 5th at those relatively low speeds. It's just a tiny trade-off in mpg, and more peace-of-mind to myself, who is an anti-lugging type of guy.
I like doing what I can to keep my pistons and cylinders clean.
I also like to practice heel/toeing and engine braking for a bit when I'm slowing down to a stop or from highway speeds, so I can create a suction and pull blow-by gasses from beyond the rings to burn it off and keep my internals clean.
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