Shake, rattle and roll

Hi: I posted awhile back about some annoying rattles coming from the sunroof, rear window, and side quarter windows. Thanks to all of your help in identifying TSB's, and two trips to the dealer for a total of 6 days, these problems were identified and fixed . . . well, sort of. After the first 3 days in the shop, the "fix" lasted for about 10 days, before the annoying rattles re-appeared. After another three days and a pronouncement that they were again fixed, things looked good -- for about 2-1/2 weeks this time. Problem is that the side quarter windows are rattling again. So here's my question. Am I wasting time going back to have this fixed yet again? Is it really fix-able, or something that at best can be fixed for awhile but will eventually recur?? Thanks.

If it's convenient, I would absolutely keep returning, making sure you document everything that has been done. That way, if you take it to a "higher court" you have proper documentation, signed by dealer service dept. Good luck!

I agree with Don... these are all fixable. If your dealer can't seem to fix it they can call in someone from PCNA to help.

I've got many of the same rattles you describe. Can someone point me in the direction of the TSBs? Thanks in advance,

For a MY02 TT... Ask your dealer to review the following TT TSBs: 2/01 5302 Noises in the Rear Seat Well (dated 8-24-01) 1/02 5717 Noises in Door Lock Area (dated 8-16-02) 4/01 6028 Noises from the New Style Sunroof Frame (dated 10-5-01)

Thanks very much Loren!

Arrghhh!!! I'm at wit's end here (a short trip). The car's been in to the shop 4 times to have the same rattle fixed!!! This one seems to be coming either from the rear driver's side quarter window or the B-pillar. Every time, they pronouce it fixed and within a week or two, I'm back. The rattle is most noticeable after the car's been outside in hot weather, then cools off and is driven. Is it time to suggest to the dealer that whatever they're doing isn't working and request that they get help from PCNA? Any tips appreciated.

After 3 trips, I would definitely get PCNA in the loop with a official letter and threat of "lemon" replacement.

What can or will PCNA do in this situation? Will they send out a tech to help trouble shoot and, hopefully, fix the problem?

You might want to take a little time and investigate "lemon laws" in CA and what is involved regarding documentation, reporting, etc.

I had to do down this road with Mazda several years ago, when my RX7 burned to the ground. The lemon law seemed to be the best legal approach... I ended up getting a refund of all amounts paid for the car, including down payment, monthly payments, etc. From what I recall, I beleive the manufacturer, and its rep (the dealer) have four tries to get a specific problem fixed. There's also a "number of days in the shop" criterion, which I beleive approaches 30 days. You only have to meet one of the criterion. Whether or not rattles will qualify is another question. I would bet that they do not, but I don't know for sure. Honestly, this seems like something that a competent dealer should be able to fix. From the sound of your rattle, I had the very same rattle and my dealer was able to fix it. I would bet that PCNA can assist.

Thanks for all of your helpful responses. This may seem like a silly question, but to get PCNA involved and their technical assistance, should I work through my dealer - tell them that I think it's time to get outside help - or do I just contact PCNA directly, myself?

call PCNA directly and do check lemon law

Dmitri, My '03 996 had squeeks in the rear quarter windows, rear window and sunroof. It also had a substantial rattle in the front dash, around the passenger airbag. It took one trip to the dealer to fix the window squeeks, one separate trip for the sunroof, and five (yes, five, including the attempts made during the window-fix trips) to fix the rattle from the dash. The car is now totally fixed. The dealer never complained and was very apologetic for the problem failing to be fixed. On the rattle, whever I picked up the car, it would be ok and then it would return after 1-2 weeks. I told the dealer to please get Porsche NA involved and they did. Car's been perfect for about two months now. Stick with it - you may need to drive with the service person to point out the problem and I would not hesitate to tell them to call the Porsche service reps who travel around to the dealerships to help with service issues. This will raise the attention level at the dealership and they will NOT want to have you return after it has been fixed once the Porsche rep is involved. Last, I should say that these sounds annoyed the hell out of me. If it bothers you half as much as it bothered me, it is really worth sticking it out to get the fix done because it is MUCH more pleasant to drive without feeling like your $80k car is squeeking and rattling away.

Thanks for the moral support ER996. I guess I'm sort of like you - the squeaks and rattles really do bug me, even more so because of the cost of the car. I have a '63 Studebaker Avanti that doesn't rattle as much (well, not quite as much), but I can understand the rattles in a 40 year old car. I've called the service person whom I dealt with at the dealer to let him know the fix didn't work, and suggested that it might be time to get PCNA involved. He said he was going to discuss this with the service manager and get back to me. I'll keep my fingers crossed. By the way, did they ever tell you what caused the rattling in the quarter windows? Mine sounds like it's coming from either the window or the B-pillar itself. Also, a "buzzing" type of rattle at the front of the headliner, probably sun-roof related.

Dmitri, The dealership told me that the window seals in all fixed windows are sealed in a way that makes some noise when there is flex caused by larger bumps in the road, transitioning from the street to steep incline, etc. Anything where the chassis flex you hear the windows squeek. The fix was a cording material added to the seals. I didn't ask what the problem was for the sunroof - I know they changed out some of the mechanism itself. Honestly, the windows squeeking and dash rattle was so loud that I didn't notice the sunroof problem. The dealership noticed it when they fixed the other problems and then test drove the car. According to the dealership, the dash rattle was the airbag cage (don;t know why it took five tries to fix that...) I had a Toyota Landcruiser that was quieter than these sounds from the new Porsche. But, again, they are now finally fixed. I found myself using the stereo all the time just to avoid hearing the noises. It was not that they were so loud, but the fact that they were so prevelant on a new car. In fairness to Porsche, I do imagine that it is hard to keep the car quiet when the chassis are so stiff and the roads are not great. I was very frustrated with the car for having these crappy problems, but once they were finally fixed (and the break in period was over so I could allow the engine rpms up) I really started to enjoy it.

Dmitri, The dealership told me that the window seals in all fixed windows are sealed in a way that makes some noise when there is flex caused by larger bumps in the road, transitioning from the street to steep incline, etc. Anything where the chassis flex you hear the windows squeek. The fix was a cording material added to the seals. I didn't ask what the problem was for the sunroof - I know they changed out some of the mechanism itself. Honestly, the windows squeeking and dash rattle was so loud that I didn't notice the sunroof problem. The dealership noticed it when they fixed the other problems and then test drove the car. According to the dealership, the dash rattle was the airbag cage (don;t know why it took five tries to fix that...) I had a Toyota Landcruiser that was quieter than these sounds from the new Porsche. But, again, they are now finally fixed. I found myself using the stereo all the time just to avoid hearing the noises. It was not that they were so loud, but the fact that they were so prevelant on a new car. In fairness to Porsche, I do imagine that it is hard to keep the car quiet when the chassis are so stiff and the roads are not great. I was very frustrated with the car for having these crappy problems, but once they were finally fixed (and the break in period was over so I could allow the engine rpms up) I really started to enjoy it.

Dmitri, The dealership told me that the window seals in all fixed windows are sealed in a way that makes some noise when there is flex caused by larger bumps in the road, transitioning from the street to steep incline, etc. Anything where the chassis flex you hear the windows squeek. The fix was a cording material added to the seals. I didn't ask what the problem was for the sunroof - I know they changed out some of the mechanism itself. Honestly, the windows squeeking and dash rattle was so loud that I didn't notice the sunroof problem. The dealership noticed it when they fixed the other problems and then test drove the car. According to the dealership, the dash rattle was the airbag cage (don;t know why it took five tries to fix that...) I had a Toyota Landcruiser that was quieter than these sounds from the new Porsche. But, again, they are now finally fixed. I found myself using the stereo all the time just to avoid hearing the noises. It was not that they were so loud, but the fact that they were so prevelant on a new car. In fairness to Porsche, I do imagine that it is hard to keep the car quiet when the chassis are so stiff and the roads are not great. I was very frustrated with the car for having these crappy problems, but once they were finally fixed (and the break in period was over so I could allow the engine rpms up) I really started to enjoy it.

Sorry about the multiple posts. ER

Here's a story about CA's lemon law. A friend of mine bought an A4 in LA for his kid. While visiting, I told him that I thought the transmisson was making a funny noise (the car ran fine, it just didn't sound right). After the dealer put two transmissions in the car and the noise didn't go away, the dealer gave him a new car that was one model year newer and had more options. There wasn't any drama at all, simply a "reminder" to the service manager about the lemon law. I've never read the law, but it must have teeth for the Audi dealer to have reacted the way it did. Good luck.

This is the exact problem I had (sunroof)....squeeked only when open. Needless to say it was maddening. First visit, the techs couldn't "reproduce" it so they couldn't fix it. I went back, took a tech out to the car and with the roof open placed my hand on headliner to give the roof (open underneath) a few manual jounces and sure enough something was not right. We compared to be certain with another 996 on the showroom floor....solid. They took the headliner out and realized only then that the bracket at the rear of the sunroof was broken and was allowing the roof to go off the track at the very rear when open thus causing the very annoying rattling. They fixed it within 24 hours and it's been perfect since. At the same time they found a "squeek" in the rear window which was also fixed. Barrier Porsche in Bellevue, WA could tell the techs at your dealership what to look for as I'm certain it's what was ailing my car.

A further update. After having the window rattle "fixed" a record fifth time, it's back!! PCNA had a field rep. assist the dealer last time, and I called them again this time to let 'em know I'd like the sixth trip to the dealer to be the last. PCNA says they're sending out the field manager to help out. I sure hope this does it. The mechanic that worked on the car says it's not the window rattling, but some "clip" that's located in front of the window in the vicinity of the B-pillar. My stupid question is why, then, if I press on the window does the rattling go away? Anyhow, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and my temper in check. This really ought to be able to be fixed. Anyone else have a problem with "clips" that made it sound like the window was rattling?

I'm not a mechanical engineer but this explanation seems a little fishy to me. I could understand the window moving up/down or in/out as the car traveled over a bump if the seal or window was loose. It's hard for me to believe that as stiff as the 996 coupe is there is enough "chassis flex" to cause the body around the window seal to flex just going over a bump or incline. Compared to other cars I've owned, the 996 seems way stiffer. We are not talking about a TR6 here (no offense to any TR6 owners). Maybe some real engineers can provide insight. BTW, I also had a rattling rear driver's side window, which was fixed in one trip. As the other posters have indicated, this should be an easy fix. I also completely agree, that once the breakin period is over and you get the car sorted out you will enjoy it immensely. Then you will realize it's too quiet and upgrade the exhaust. I just put on the PSE and I am in love with it.