Ebay/Rennlist advice requested and assorted ramblings

Well, here goes. I listed my car in the Rennlist ads and on e-bay. A fellow Rennlister scheduled a PPI and we basically agreed on a price subject to the PPI results (I know there is nothing to worry about there). I got home from work and kiddy errands and the ebay auction was just about over (20 minutes or so left). I checked, reserve not met and bidding had not moved in days. I really wanted to get home to get it cancelled before someone hit the reserve but the way things worked out Wednesday, I just could not get there any earlier. I could kick myself for not going straight to ebay and cancelling the auction before I left the office. Now, here comes the problem. While I was going through the steps to cancel the auction, someone apparently met the reserve. I say apparently because I never saw it but when the ebay email came showing the cancellation, I got the email from the guy who says he hit the reserve. I think he did as he knew what it was. BTW this guy never emailed me during the 7 day auction or the two 7 day auctions prior. So now I have a fellow Rennlister with whom I have a deal and this guy who is literally threatening to sue me if I don't sell him the car. I really don't know what to do. How do I go for three to four weeks with no legitimate offers to this? Ebay let me cancel the auction for the reason the item was no longer available which is true. I have a good feedback rating and am (I think) a good ebay citizen. Anyway, any advice is most appreciated.

**** on him. if you ended the auction early cause it was no longer available, let him sue (he won't). since he wasn't the winner, he can't screw your feedback.

I have had the worst freaking luck lately. I re-read my post and, if it hadn't happen to me, I would not believe it. I believe in kharma to a point. Bear with me while I explain. Joe L and I travel in my Expedition (93K miles on it) to Houston (1200 miles) to pick up our newly purchased track car and trailer. No problems going down. Pick up the car and we are stoked. Coming back through Mississippi on the Interstate at about 75 mph we hit a dip in the road. I look at Joe and say "that wasn't good" and next thing we know, WHAM!! the trailer slams into the back of the Expedition. The tailer cuts down a back tire on the Expedition but we make it over to the berm without killing anyone, rolling the trailer or any number of other bad things that could have happened. Of couse we are totally dumbfounded as to what happened. Joe l says "Look, the hitch is gone". I thought to myself, how did we break the pin. I open the back hatch to get the tools out to fix the flat and there's the GD kotter key. I forgot to put the key on the pin when I changed out the ball in Houston. Good kharma? I didn't damage the trailer (minor cosmetic) or the Expedition or lose the 993 on the trailer. Bad kharma? Why did I do something so stupid? So we get back on the road and make it all the way back to Ohio. I get within 5 miles of my house and POP POP POP. I blow what I think is and exhaust gasket. Go on home under a serious loss of power and one helluva racket, unhook the trailer and take the truck directly to the shop. Next day, the shop calls and says, yeah you had an exhaust leak but you also blew a spark plug clean out of the head. BTW the head is so damaged, it cannot be fixed. I say put a new engine in it as a new head on a 93K mile Ford engine just doesn't make sense to me. I go by the shop yesterday and the mechanic shows me my antifreeze that has oil in it. "Good thing you bought and entire new engine", he says. Good kharma? I made it home and bought a new engine instead of just repairing the old one I had. Bad kharma? Blowing a spark plug out of the head.

The e-bay guy sounds very bogus, besides that e-bay notifies you of a successful sale... end of story. Good that you got home safely,

If he is so pissed let him deal with eBay. You have cancellation notice. End of story

Sorry, YOU sat the reserve and he met it. Sell him the car or end up in court. "Tie" goes to the "runner"!

Even if he did meet the reserve, as Ben said, you have the right to end the auction for many reasons and "item no longer available" is accurate. He cannot sue you because there was never an agreement and he can't give you negative feedback because there was no transaction. Sell to the fellow lister and be happy.

Juan, the reserve was met but the auction was still live. There was no Buy It Now.

Juan, he claims he met it, but eBay allowed action to be canceled. He should take it up with eBay, not the seller

I'm not a lawyer but I am a VERY experienced ebay'er. A few points: 1. You DO NOT have to sell the car to the bidder. You ended the auction early whether the guy hit the reserve or not. You have the right to not sell the car...especially if you ended the auction early. Car dealers do this all the time. If you are actively selling the car there is no guarantee to the bidder that it won't sell outside of ebay before the auction ends. You can read lots of stories where people have even used the "buy it now" button, but, the car was sold before the dealer could close the auction. 2. People put all kinds of legal text in their auctions but I have never heard of anyone being taken to court for not following through on an auction. Only when a deposit is made or cash changes hands does it get serious. 3. Ebay won't like it because they don't get their $40 successful end of auction fee. Oh well...life's tough. Sell the car to the Rennlister and move on. A lawyer might have a different opinion...I'm just relating my experience.

I am a lawyer by the way. I know the "gavel never fell" so the auction is not binding. I was more concerned with the moral part of the dilema. Since we all know lawyers have no morals, I was trying to get a sense of what to do. I think the answer has been pretty well laid out and I do appreciate the input from all. Thanks!

I totally dis-agree with Juan! I'm no lawyer either, but I have bought two cars on ebay {an 01 BMW and a 99 996}. If I were the one bidding on your car, I would not be giving you any grief what so ever since the auction did not end. Meeting someones reserve does not end the auction. I think it is very clear, until the auction ends and ebay declares a winner, bidders have no responsibility to buy and sellers have no responsibility to sell. ... just my 2 cents.

If you dont mind, send me the link to the old auction ... eBay will be very clear on this. If eBay lets you 'end the auction' even after the reserve is met, there is no issue. Look at the eBay rules / help menu and e-mail the info to the bidder. Most buyers state that they can end the auction at anytime. If this was against ebay policy, you would not have been able to end the auction. That is the 'govening law' so to speak. period. However, I can understand why the guy would be pissed off.

John, I think you are under no obligation to sell the car to the ebay guy because for all intensive purposes it was sold before you could get to the website and cancel it. I don't speak from a legal perspective, but from a moral perspective, I don't see any problem with it. As a side note, I'm interested in hearing people's opinions about cars they bought on Ebay. I am very weary of buying a car sight unseen. My fear is further compounded by an experience I had, wherein I went to inspect a car I was interested in. The seller listed the condition of the car as 9 inside and out, and when I got there, I saw rips in the seats, a cracked tail lamp, and delaminating windows (it was a BMW Protection car).

You can end an auction on eBay anytime before the end date/time, regardless of reserves and whatnot. It is frowned upon however, but not against eBay's terms. Don't confuse the issue with reserves - it's not relevant to this discussion. Also what is not relevant is the fact that the guy never showed any interest by emailing you before the end of the auction. He is not required to do this. Some people snipe on eBay and that is allowed. The only thing that is relevant is did he win the auction? If he did you would get a notice from eBay and he would appear as the "winner" and you would get an email from eBay stating that you guys should complete your transaction. If you got this notice then he won the auction fair and square. The fact that you didn't cancel it in time is your unfortunate problem. You should take this as a lesson that you should take something like this more seriously. If you mess up then pay the price and learn from it. Honor the deal you started. I'm not talking legally now, I'm just talking fair business. If, however, you legitimately cancelled the auction and you have an email from eBay saying that the auction was cancelled before the end date/time, *and* he has a notice saying he won the auction, then I'd say it sounds like there is a glitch in eBay's software. In this case the auction should be considered null and void.

John H....someone on a post mentioned calling or emailing the "loser". I wouldn't communicate with him in ANY way, verbal or otherwise. But you probably already know that.

Here's the link. As you can see, Ebay cancelled all the bids. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ory=10156&rd=1 Here's the latest e-mail. He's mad because I won't respond. All I can say is I hope his "lean" works on me, I could stand to drop a few pounds. "John, Ok, at this time I am doing the following: I am contacting E-bay related to the illegal use of the auction website. Next step will be to request a lean on the vehicle via the Vin# information provided. You need to understand once the reserve is met, the deal is done. I am not a bad guy, nor do I want to push this, but I feel like you pulled a fast one here, and are trying not to live up to a legally binding deal. I will stop the pressure on this if you simply call to discuss. I want this car. Thanks,"

How can he put a lien against the car when he has no monetary interest in the car? Some people just crack me up. I think the next time someone doesn't sell me their GT3 I'll put a lien on their car too! :-) Nice car by the way...if I was in the market for a water pumper I would have considered yours! Bill

He is a new bidder and prob just tryin to scare you. Ignore him. You are right. He is just shooting in the dark.

Well, no wonder you are having such a hard time. As a member of an amoral club you won't know what the moral thing to do is even if it jumped up on you!!! Sorry, I couldn't resist a cheap shot at a lawyer, heh-heh-heh . Just wanted to add my voice to the choir. You are well within your rights to stop the auction anytime before the deadline. Whether the bidder got to the reserve or not is of no consequence. There is no "winner" until the auction deadline is done, and cancellation prevented that. Any auction participant should know that, and it neither immoral nor wrong to not sell to the last bidder in an auction that was cancelled. If he never got the notification that he won the auction, I think the immoral one is the e-bay guy. He knows the rules of auction, but wants you to sell your car to him anyway. Either that, or he is just plain ignorant.

You ended the auction? If that true, end of story. No email on a purchase like this? BS.

The eBay link says it all. The auction was ended before it was over. The auction is null and void.

Screw the guy, he can't do anything. You have every right to end the auction at any time, it doesnt' amtter that he hit the reserve. Let him sue you if wants to, it won't matter, worst case scenario he would have to prove that he can't buy another one like it for the same price and that he has incurred financial harm from your failure to complete the transaction. The most he would ever get would be VERY little and it's so unlikely he'll bother.

Having some experience with legitimate auctions dealing with industrial equipment that is frequently sold in that fashion, I can't help but hope that someday e-bay will be replaced by a legitimate auction site with the normal auction rules that have been around since the beginning of time that the reserve is disclosed up front (so you know whether you are wasting your time bidding), and that the seller can't cancel the auction after the reserve is met (so if you do spend your effort researching the product and relying on the offer to sell, you won't be left empty handed by someone misrepresenting their intent to sell and just using the auction as an advertising vehicle). These simple rules are what have allowed auctions to serve an important role in the economy and it completely mystifies me how and why serious people spend so much time screwing around with e-bay under the current rules. If the bidder here was used to normal auctions I could certainly understand his unhappiness, but JohnH's predicament and the sympathetic responses here just go to show that people consider e-bay mostly an advertising and shopping entertainment site with the auction aspect being the entertainment.

That guy sounds like he is losing it! I personally would email him, let him know that you ended the auction, and that you are sorry if there was a problem with his bid. I would reference the auction that clearly shows that his bid was not accepted by ebay and the fact that as a seller you can end the auction at any time. Out of curiousity didnt you just get that car a few months ago??

Jeff, you're right. But eBay is not a replacement for professional and industrial auctions. eBay started out as a consumer auction site with different rules. Now that it has grown so big if they want to handle big ticket items they are going to have to step up and build a Pro-eBay for serious business. Until then it is just a consumer site.

Yeah I just got it in April. I have a sickness. I know it. I took the 996 to the track at Watkins Glen in JUly with a friend of mine who owns a 96 C4S. The 996 was incredibly fast (to me anyway) and it scared me. Scared may not be the right word, but I was going faster than ever before and I just thought to myself that I am crazy to be out here going this fast in a car that costs this much. I know if I wreck it I would be heart broken and broke. When my buddy backed into the tire wall coming out of turn one, that sealed it. Track car. Bought a '95 993 track car and will be joining the PCA Club Racing ranks in D class (stock) if I pass the interview next week. My wife says I'll never be able take not having a 911 daily driver. We'll see. I figure I'll probably end up with a Carrera or 964 next spring.

I'd have to disagree w/ Juan. A binding sale does not exist until the end of the auction AND if the reserve is met. Since the auction was cancelled prior to the end date, there is no sale irrespective of whether or not the reserve price was reached. If the ebayer had hit the "buy it now" price then he would be in the right as that would have ended the auction and met the reserve. IMHO of course