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YOUR RESEARCHPorsche Land in Chicago
Reported or suspected cause
void in the head casting
Reported cause
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Reported cause
He found the issue......the original intermix was caused by a void in the head casting.
Leading evidence: 'void in the head casting' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'void in the head casting' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check he was entitled' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Last time I checked, he was entitled to that opinion.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Looks like they changed the name to Forsche Land...
Use cylinder 6 half case and ported/polished heads
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Full Rebuild, with good used Cylinder 6 Half Case and Ported/Polished Heads.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
That included them giving me a Good Used Half Case as i didn't want to be Sleeved and Newer Used Pistons from the same Good Half Case.
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Suggestion
We don't just build engines and repair them, we have developed every major upgrade/ repair component available under this roof, and that includes many that are only used in our engines and not mentioned anywhere, or available.
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78 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Anyone dealt with Porsche Land before in Chicago? Thinking of sending them my Engine for a Rebuild due to Scored Cylinder
www.porsche-land.com
Let me know if anyone has any Feedback
unfortunately I do not have the leisure of waiting that long, need my car back asap.
I already spoke to Jake first thing and the wait is too long for me as this is my DD
I suspected this. Good on you. If you really want the Chicago area, we have other good shops too like Eurosport and Fischer. But they are busy now with all the club racing and DE's. Good luck.
Did you call Charles Navarro at L&N Engineering? He might have some rebuild shops to recemmend too.
Bought some parts from them and they work quite a bit on engines and quite a bit of race prepped cars. The guy used to be some rally mechanic or something from Europe. Husband and wife duo. Husbands more of a do'er and not really a people person. That's the reason why the wife handles most communication/customer service/sales. They're fairly new so hard to tell if their engines last or not.
Which website is this?
I do know for a fact that they are always selling tons of parts off crashed street and race cars on a regular basis. This is the other part of their business model.
Now if they are selling their tools, lifts, desks, chairs, that would be a different story.
from the 986forum.com web site. Here was their posting:
We are a Porsche repair shop located in Schaumburg, Il, we have hundreds of used parts for all Porsche models (Boxster, 911 996, 997).
Engine parts, interior, lines, electrical, mechanical, etc...
Everything must go, selling cheap, make your offer!
If you're interested in purchasing all of our parts, we can work out a package deal!
Come and visit in person or give us a call [phone removed]!
I think the wording may be confusing. They are Polish with English as a second language. However, "all of our parts" does seem suspect.
Best way to know is to just clarify it with them with one simple phone call instead of assuming this or that.
put this rumour to rest, they are not going out of business but rather expanding rather quickly!!! I picked up my Engine up yesterday.
Excellent Service and Communication!!!
When I dropped my engine off for rebuild 3 weeks ago, Martin had 1 or 2 other being rebuilt and I was next in line. When I was there yesterday he had 13 engines in a row waiting to be rebuilt... These guys are gonna be big
Glad everything worked out. As for the 13 engines, I suspect some of those are people not wanting to wait over a year at another place to get their's rebuilt.
Full Rebuild, with good used Cylinder 6 Half Case and Ported/Polished Heads. Total cost $8,500 and 2 Road Trips to Chicago from Toronto!!! Totally worth it
Looks like they have a rebuilt 3.4 for sale for $7,000.
http://www.forsche-land.com/items-for-sale.html
At that price, maybe I should buy it like you do with an ignition switch - just to have it as a spare!
Hmm, buy a nice roller for $5,000 or $6,000, put this rebuilt engine in it for $7,000, figure another $1,000 for miscellaneous parts, fluids, etc, and you've got a pretty nice little car for $15,000. Makes almost too much sense.
If they are really down the street in Schaumburg, I will have check them out.
I'm good friends with one of Raby's mechanics, and I still think they over charge for their work. They do great work, but these cars aren't forged from solid gold either. They are still just cars.
We drive 996's, we aren't snobs :-)
Interesting. Who might that be? All of my employees have been here for years and they've never mentioned your username. Perhaps you have us confused with someone else?
I even bought a car from one of them...
I respect what your shop has done for the community and you do great work, but for a non-race car I don't understand why some P-car owners have to act like snobs sometimes. Would I like to have a Raby 4.0L engine,hell yes, but I can't financially justify one for my 996 daily driver.
You build top shelf stuff, I wouldn't expect you to compete with a guy who does quality, but budget rebuilds. There's a market for both.
All I asked was who the previous poster was referring to from my facility. Thats all.
As for competing, we don't have a single competitor, no one else does what we do. :-)
Happy 4th!
Nothing specific. It is well known Jake's prices compete with Porsche prices for new engines. To be fair, I am sure he builds a fine engine. I have not heard complaints or stories of poor workmanship. There are less expensive options that work perfectly well out there, that take less time to acquire.
Quality and precision take time and money. The time it takes to get a rebuild done at FSI is a direct result of the work they do and the value we customers place on that. I would guess that the less expensive options are not the same thing. I think we may be back to defining refresh, rebuild, the process each builder uses, and the materials they choose. When that is taken into account, there is no direct comparison. Not even from the factory.
That was quite the "off the cuff" comment. Usually comments like that come with no knowledge of the topic or experience. There was a time when I made those same comments........but trust me on this......you don't know what you speak of.
Here is a little story....I bought a motor w/out a warranty from Jake in May 2013 after mine went kaput while on the track. The motor developed intermix Dec 2013 and Jake took care of it by repairing the crack in the head. I put the motor back in the car and it still wasn't running right. Jake had a truck and trailer at my door in a few days and off my car went to GA. This was 3 weeks ago. He found the issue......the original intermix was caused by a void in the head casting. The void was never found until he pulled the head and milled into it. There was crack coming from an oil passage in the head. Did I mention I bought the motor without a warranty? A new head was matched to my motor and installed. He has put 300 miles on the car and is ready to put the car back on a truck and drop it at my door. I should have it back this week. All of this has been on his own dime. ALL of it
So did I have time and money to waste? Nope. But what also came with my motor with no warranty was a company that stood by their product regardless. You can go cheap but think about what you are buying....you know the saying.....you get what you pay for.
Apologize to the OP......sorry to highjack and I'm glad you are up and running.
Not really off the cuff. I know what Jake does to his motors based on what has been posted in this forum. I have read a lot of what he does here and his responses. I generally don't make off the cuff comments. Those who know me, know I do research before I comment.
I am also in the automotive industry directly and I am very aware of what it takes to make a motor. I rebuild motors myself including quite a few Porsche ones. I have been a machinist in a previous life before engineering, so I know what is involved. Machining of automotive components (all engine and transmission parts) are what I am involved with on a daily basis.
With all this information, I stand by what I posted. His prices are high (even for the quality he does) and his deliveries are long (if 8 moths is a true reflection of his deliveries). What you have NEVER seen me post about Jake is that his engines are not any good. You have never seen me post that because I don't believe that is the case.
But what do I know?
No doubt you have skills that are over my head regarding how these things go together. What I was getting at was being in the scenario that your motor has died.....what do you do? What would you do? If you have the means to dig into the thing and fix it great.....that's not me. Saying send it to Jake if you have time and money to waste is backwards at least for me. In my case I couldn't afford not to have him involved.
But fully unsubstantiated.
Really? No you do not. Why? Because what we do specifically to these engines is not posted here. Why? Because of people like you, and their comments, pretty much. Also, I don't make blatent advertisement posts like other companies do on this forum. Show me once where I have posted an ad for an engine here. You won't find it.
And you've been abrasive in most every post that you've made. Your research is limited to my posts on Rennlist and you have ZERO direct experience with me or my company. You call that research?
And now comes the truth and you're true motivation for your behavior.
For whom? It seems that you know all about me, but we don't know you. Care to share a little more than the username with us, so we can "research" who you are?
How do you substantiate this? When have I given you a direct price on one of these engines? If I would have done that, you'd know that my prices include every single thing, right down to power steering fluid and oil for a completed car when we carry out a reconstruction. This price was higher than Porsche's engine program (by as much as 5K) several years ago, but at the end of the Porsche program for crate engines my engine was less and included complete installation and break- in service with chassis dyno time. Hell, I even fill the fuel tank of every car that sees a reconstruction, and ship it home clean.
That doesn't even take into consideration that we give 200ccs of free displacement to every purchaser of a Stage I engine and give them a full year's worth of engine oil and filters for their new engine, and include oil analsis for that year as well. Hell, I even give them free used oil analysis kits to send the oil back to us with and free postage!
As I stated earlier in this thread, no other service, anywhere is this complete. This is the reason why we have no competitor in this market.
So, how can you say that my prices are high for whats offered? You can't. Why? Because you don't know whats included.
Most of the owners like that the deliveries take a while. We run 8-12 months all the time and that make it easier for folks to save money. I work from a 3 payment (1/3 payments) plan that breaks the process down to an initial deposit, a mid term payment and then one final payment when the work is done. Maybe twice per year people complain about a lead time, but they can call someone else who has an engine on the shelf and have it tomorrow- thats fine with us. People that understand what it takes to process one of these engines start to finish have a great respect for the procedures and man hours expended to do so. Remember- We aren't just slapping an engine together and wrapping it with saran wrap and shipping it away, we are doing everything required to restore function to that entire vehicle. Today that means a lot more than just the engine, as the cars are getting older and sub- systems are lending a hand.
And there's probably another reason for that, too. I won't post my thoughts, because I don't believe in posting speculation.
Hard to say, because we don't know you.
Yeah, I love a good round of Flat Six bashing ...
Let's say you have a cart full of hot dogs. You go out to a street corner, charge a buck apiece, and sell them all.
The next day, you charge two bucks apiece, and sell them all.
Day 3, you charge three bucks apiece, you sell 1/2 the hot dogs.
Some people may not want to spend more than a buck for a hot dog, but the fact is, $2.00 hot dogs were not "too expensive." For whatever reason, enough people thought two bucks was the right price that they bought every one.
It's a simplistic example, ignoring direct competitors, variation in service offerings, local monopolies, etc ... but my point is that a competitive marketplace can do a pretty good job of setting the value of goods or services.
As for Flat Six Innovations, as long as they have a waiting list, then it's hard for me to view them as "too expensive." Some of us -- myself included-- may not be able to afford one of their engines. Some of us may not think they are worth it -- and I don't have an opinion on that -- but none of that really matters.
Clearly, enough people think FSI provides fair value that they are standing in line. To me, this means that a) their prices are fair, or b) every one of their customers is an idiot. If it's b), then Jake Raby is wasting his time on this small a scam.
Not sure I would call it flat six bashing. But Zookie got a motor rebuilt for $7500.00. It appears to work perfectly well. He got it in a matter of weeks.
Based on that information, there are acceptable alternatives out there. When somebody says just go to Jake, as if that is the only solution, I will always respond how I did. If you have money that you don't need, and time to wait, Jake is a solution. He appears to build a good motor. End of story. If you want to save 8k+ ( I remember a post where he stated his engines start at 23k somewhere, he can correct me if I am wrong) then go to where the OP went. OR any number of other places which do rebuilds. Jake is not the only solution.
Your simple approach does not take into account a number of things. Statistically there are people that do not care about cost. Quality is the only metric on which to judge. He is not getting 95% of the rebuilds out there. He is getting the small percentage that do not care about cost or delivery or buy into his belief that he is the only one who can rebuild a motor. It is a really good business model. It is working for him. I don't fault him for it. And his engines are just fine (I haven't seen anyone say his stuff doesn't work).
In the end none of this matters. Anyone who does enough research will be able to come to their own conclusions.
Nice way to completely ignore every point and question from my post. We still don't know who you are, so we can't "research you".
When people say "Go see Jake", they do that because they know that we'll solve the problem the first time. Today we receive referrals from Porsche dealers in the same manner that we receive them here on these forums.
Of course I am not the only person who can build these engines, we had the first engine program and its been around the longest and maintained it's reputation. We don't just build engines and repair them, we have developed every major upgrade/ repair component available under this roof, and that includes many that are only used in our engines and not mentioned anywhere, or available. People wonder how our owners can spin their engines to 10,000+ RPM when mising a shift and the engine maintain camshaft timing when no one else can do that, and thats just one example.
Each year since 2008 I have instructed my Engine Rebuild and Engine Mechanical Classes to over 1,300 Porsche Technicians across North America. That includes having the owners and technicians from all of the "other shops" that offer these engines attending these classes to learn a little bit of what I share in 16 hours of instruction in the Engine Mechanical class, or a full 4 days in my hands on "Rebuild School".
I am so secure of what we do and how its done, that I have no problem instructing these classes and sharing the information. There's nothing more rewarding than training other people how to compete against you. Hell, they have to learn it somehow.
Soon they will be able to follow my step by step engine assembly manual, too. Thats should increase their effectiveness quite a bit, as well. Thats what its all about.
Speaking of, any idea when you'll be done with your book?
Also the newbies thank you for advertising, I mean explaining who YOU are and all the wonderful things you have done laying out your portfolio for those that don't know by now. As for the rest of us, it's Groundhog Day again.
I was responding to off base and incorrect statements made by another poster. Further I was clarifying what our engine is comprised of, since the criticizing poster had no idea.
Groundhog Day only comes around once per year, yet I find that I get dragged into these things by posters like 69Gaugeman at least once per week, and I never want to be a part of it.
BTW- The other poster who stated that he knows a member of my team and further stated that the engines we build are not special has also yet to respond. I can only believe that he knows no one here and simply made up that statement.
Had that never been mentioned, I would have never posted in this thread.
Alp.........that's not fair...it's so easy to comment like that. The guy gets called out, goes over the top to explain what his service is and you spin it as a commercial. He can't win if he keeps his mouth shut or not. Like I said before, I was in the camp for pissing on Flat6 long before you found RL but who are you going to call if your car takes a dirt nap? I called him with my tail between my legs and have not looked back. Or are you going to just toss it away?
No bone to pick with you just standing up for the guy that got me back on the road.
Not sure of what you call clarifying, because in the next post you say no one know what you do in your service
It is a commercial. You can't get around that. Once you become a paying sponsor, every post about your product is a commercial.
This is something that is not offered universally. If it is more than 25 grand, wouldn't a twin turbo do the trick for you?
Just to be clear It was $8,000 USD (M96 3.6L) for Complete Rebuild not Refresh
That included them giving me a Good Used Half Case as i didn't want to be Sleeved and Newer Used Pistons from the same Good Half Case.
Both the Half case and Pistons had 16k miles on them compare to my 127k miles.
Price also included the EPS IMS Upgrade and Rebuilding of Heads
$500 Extra for Heads being Ported and Polished
Engine was Ready for pick up in 3 Weeks from the day dropped off and I got to see Chicago twice but the Strippers aren't as good as Toronto
RE & RE was extra at my end.
But this shop does RE & RE for an Extra $1,000
The shop that did my RE & RE here in Toronto has sent 2 Engines (3.6L) to them for Rebuild after seeing mine
Stripper hierarchy:
Montreal>Quebec City>Toronto>Chicago>Detroit
I could fill out the complete list of all the places I've been, but that would take a thread of it's own.
Craziest: Edmonton
69gaugeman, we still don't know who you are.
Zookie and I talked several times, even at length. His vehicle was a primary mode of transportation and even though I tried to do him a favor the timeline I had was still too far out for him. That happens every now and then and thats Ok.
I am glad that he has his car back on the road, we started talking in early spring and I know he was without the car for a good while. It seemed to be a classic Canadian syndrome induced by operation in the cold environment.
That statement was the poster's opinion. Perhaps for him, he considers the things we do and how we do them to be the "best and only option" for him. Last time I checked, he was entitled to that opinion.
Now thats funny!
I have my own folder of cease and desists from Porsche and got on a first name basis with Laura in that "department" a few years back. It got to the point where I'd just send them things before we even posted them just to save everyone time and hassles. They are really easy to get along with, as long as you don't do something stupid :-)
It is and isn't fair. Yes I think Jake has every right to defend himself and his business. The delivery method however could use some modification to make it sound less like a commercial IMO. Anyone, even new guys that's done even one ounce of research on Jake knows his reputation, achievements, and capabilities. I don't think it needs to be blasted through air horns every single time in a commercial fashion. Once again, just my $.02 as I'm also entitled to.
I also don't like when he avoids certain questions either but only answers the ones he wants.
I can def say Toronto is way ahead than Chicago in this dept. LOL. I'm fairly sure there are a few more places to be slotted in between Toronto and Chicago though. Edmonton I'll def have to try based on this post the next time I'm anywhere near around there(and without the family).
The payment was made to Porsche-Land
That's correct Jake and did Talk in length and he was very helpful in providing information, we have also met in Person in Toronto during a Seminar, reason why I called him first.
Its just that our timeline didn't match, I could not wait that long as he is backed up, and my car is a daily driver
I waited for 2 months for LA Dismantler to Build me an Engine for Exchange of mine but they never got a good Core to build me one with, at that point I found Porsche-Land and decided to Take matters into my own hands and Road Trip to Chicago to get my car back on the road within 4 weeks of finding Porsche-Land.
I was without my car was 3 Months
I'm sure in some country, the "F" is pronounced like "P". Lol
Probably a bad decision on a last minute stop gap after being threatened by Porsche until they can come up with a name they want to stick with.
lol dude thats funny lol
actually back home in middle east there is no "P" in Arabic so everything with a "P" becomes a "B" like Borsche, Bebsi or Barty!!!
So here is my IMS Bearing from my M96 3.6L Engine. 196,500km on it and the bearing is like brand new. No Play No Signs of Wear. All the IMS failure hype on the internet, not for me.
NSK
Poland
6204DU17
917
No need to cut it apart, just look at the races and *****. If there is no galling it is good to go. They don't just explode one day. The bearing failure is gradual. If it spins freely (not like there is sand in there) it is good.
I agree that he IMS issue had been overblown. Porsche's lawsuit provided the REAL data.
I agree with Mr. Raby, cut the bitch open and inspect the bearings.
You are looking for abnormal wear on the bearing and the bearing race surfaces.
Ps. Just a newbee... my .02c
I've seen the bearings feel fine with oil inside them. Once bisected it was easy to see the spalling that was occurring. This generally starts at the center most part of the outer race and will impact 1/3 the circumference first and will work is way around.
Anyone who has experienced this mode of failure will not agree that it's made to be larger than it is. Bearing failures are occurring less today since so many cars have been retrofitted, I only received 3 IMSB failure calls so far this week.
By "so many", how many have you sold? Considering there are over 120k 996 produced, I'm not sure if this statement holds any weight.
Also, you never answered my initial question on when the release date of your book will be. If you don't know, just say so and provide at least a response. Thank you.
Wait, I thought there never was an IMSB issue?
Over 20,000 engines have been retrofitted with various technologies sold by LN and developed here.
As for the book, I am torn about releasing it. There are more cons to the release of the book than pros at this point. Atleast that's the Author point of view.
Thank you for that figure. As for the book, ignore people like me here and continue on your original conquest of sharing your passion to the community. We might not all agree on everything (a lot of the times in case of Rennlist), but I think we all share the passion for these cars and trying to learn as much as possible, especially someone that has been featured on a publication or two. Just please keep it objective with no subliminal advertising messages in between paragraphs. Also please include any catastrophic pics in full color.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
