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Suggestion · Original poster
When you want to upgrade, its important to set a budget and then get the most out of that budget.
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Suggestion
and the pre-02 cars use motronic 5.x which leaves WAY more variables on the table when tuning the ECU...
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I think I am done with mods on my car. The last of it finished on Friday. I just drove a stock 02 cab for butt dyno comparison and it pulled harder through out the rpm range in first, second and third. For those who are considering an upgrade to a MK2 996 from MK1, there is really no need.
Intake, Exhaust, headers and a flash is all you need to have the 3.4L perform better than a stock 3.6L.
Chao,
Sounds like you're a happy camper! Congrats on being done, thats a great feeling.
Out of curiosity, what do you think the total mod bill came to?
- Hans
Hans,
EVO intake and Fabspeed exhaust existed when I bought the car with 66K miles. I added headers and flash not thinking that it would make such a big difference. The biggest difference is the flash pulling the mods together as the pieces were coming together.
I got headers and the ECU flash. The best was Ferdinand's generous donation of his time, insight and hospitality.
I think if you get headers, exhaust and flash to tie it all together with your existing intake on your car. It will screams and sounds like the way Pcars should straight from the factory and should be faster than my car.
I had my ECU adjusted twice. My wife kept commenting on how much better the car sounds after the initial flash before the headers went on. After the headers were put on, it only sounded better/deeper but no performance realization.
The last ECU flash, advanced the timing further, tied in the headers made all the difference. She got scared riding as a passenger and was holding on to the door handle this past weekend.
The bonus is that I am getting better fuel mileage because the engine is more efficient believe it or not...
I realize that its a never ending cycle but its keeps my wallet from getting too light. At least for the time being.
when the time is right, the Gt3 is right around the corner. Glad you are happy with your mods Chao.... that's all that matters.
Mark, you know you need that PSE!
Like I said. Its butt dyno driving the two cars back to back. I have Fabspeed headers and custom flash. The owner of the 02 cab will likely comment on this thread later.
I was very impressed by the overall performance gains on Chao's car. Definitely more power than I was expecting, yet still very comfortable to drive. Overall I think everything came together great. It made me realize I need to pick up a couple mods .. so much for saving money.
Finally reaching the end feels different, doesn't it? Congrats.
Regardless of how much money you spent on upgrades, or if you gained or lost any power, as long as you are happy, that's all that's really matters.
Chao,
Great to hear abour your progress on the MK1, it's always sweet to know that the mods you put into the car are actually doing something positive!
And how can you say your finished - you know thats never true
Get some wheels to top it all off!
Mick
Scott,
Driving your cab last night made me realize that a turbo cab needs to be a car I need to own at somepoint in my life. Sooner rather than later of course.
Thanks! Some people mod for pure cosmetic or performance reasons. I chose mods that will improve performance first. If it contributes to asthetic/cosmetic value of the car on top of it, then it is a bonus to me.
+1 on the turbo cab, something very special about them (I am not at al a convertible guy, but the turbo cabs have grown on me, they just look so bad *** with the top down , and are an absolute blast inside.)
Sounds like you got the whole thing together without breaking the bank, congrats again Chao. My initial reasoning behind not personally modding was warranty, when that runs out in January, I then have some math to run:
NA mods
SC mods
buy a TT
I'll bother you more when I get to that point, but I am curious to see some real before after dynos for systematic mods to the 3.6, intake, exhaust, headers and chip. It's an old topic, and beaten to death, but we've never gotten anything conclusive really in terms of data.
I'm most surprised that the chip made a difference in sound at all.
Mick,
The only thing I have left is 200 cell CATs and I don't want drone. After that would be supercharging and would rather replace it with a turbo in that equation.
Hans,
The chip was the most surprising part of the equation for me. However, its about the type of ECU flash that is important. Like I said, I had my timing advanced twice where the parameters were changed to accomodate the new mods. It made a huge difference. Getting a generic ECU flash equals leaving extra performance on the table in my book. What a shame..
When you want to upgrade, its important to set a budget and then get the most out of that budget. Otherwise, you will be chasing that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow lead by ads you see in forums and magazines.
You shouldn't have drone with 200cell Cats. I now have intake tube (orange tube), intake plenum, EVO headers, cargraphic cats, and PSE-hack. No drone at all.
I just need a good tune, like you say, to optimize the parts. Yours is a custom tune. Not too many big companies around doing that sort of thing for a *reasonable* price.
I think that Farnbacher and Loles does custom ECU tuning.
They are in Connecticut which is a bit of a drive for me but I heard very good things about them and also about a custom tune based on the actual mods on your car instead of a "generic" tune as Chao puts it.
Pete
drone is a function of your exhaust and not your cats... the fabspeed mufflers drone very little with no other mods... not enough to bother you.. but when you add cats to them ... look out... you may not like what you hear...
I know the PSE and 200 cell cats don't drone at all... or cargraphic mufflers for that matter...
VOLUME is a function of total exhaust system... drone is caused by a poorly designed muffler... trust me on this one.
many LOUDER exhausts have a tiny bit of drone in them that is not that annoying... but add a hi-flow cat to it and you turn up the volume... and the drone!
You speak the truth, NA mods need quality chip tuning or your stock ecu will "tune out" the mods, true across the board on modern cars. I'm not surprised about the chip on power since you moved up timing, just didn't think it would sound different!
no it won't actually
cause the 02 and beyond cars use motronic 7.x... and the pre-02 cars use motronic 5.x which leaves WAY more variables on the table when tuning the ECU... a GIAC flash will get you 15-20 Wheel horsepower on a 3.4 engine... and even more on a 3.4 (99) NON-egas - maybe 25 on that one... a 3.6 uses 7.x and probably won't even get you 10 (7 whp) more horsepower and this is because of the variocam + feature that limits the timing advance and ability to tune on the top end... and also the 7.x system has less variables left for adjustment.... so the difference really ain't that big when you consider this... not worth upgrading...
if you wanna upgrade go get a 2006 and beyond car - lots of updates to that motor or better yet get a 2006 "S"
the 3.4 and 3.6 engines up to 2005 were all riddled with problems... anybody who thinks the 3.6 engine is more reliable than the 3.4 is dreaming... its newer... not as many have blown up ... yet... cause they came on the market later... give it a few years and then compare stats...
Hi Chao,
Sounds like the car is running great. Did you notice the power band move up the RPM range? After my mod's it really takes off after ~5k. Here's my after dyno with the following mods to my 2003 3.6 (sorry no before #'s)
Revo Stage 2 chip
EVOMS Intake
RSS Plenum
Maxspeed headers and 200 cell cat's
Cargraphic exhaust
Rich,
To be honest, my power is felt through out the RPM range. It is noticeable in the lower band range because I have been driving on the street. My first, second and third pulls are much harder compared to stock.
All of my claims are butt dyno confirmed by another 02 cab owner. I do not have dyno runs to back up my claims. It was felt between the two cars and two people that my mods are a noticeable improvement. 15 hp is not noticeable by butt dyno, thus my reason for sharing....
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