I don't care what the 'purists' say, I like my 996...

I have fun in my car. I toss it around and spin up the motor all the time. My last car was an 1988 E30 M3 with tons of bolt-ons. I loved the car because I could throw it around on my way to work and have a blast almost everytime I drove it. It sounded cool, looked great, actually had a racing pedigree, and held it's own at track days. I also race 125cc kart on weekends. So I know what to expect from a race chassis. For a while, I was worried the 996 would be a let down. Soft and uninspiring. But I wanted a daily driver for life in Michigan, where the roads are crap. I went back and forth considering 993 vs 996 vs. E46 M3 etc.etc... So here I am. Slate grey metallic coupe, 18"s, I installed H&R springs, a B&M shifter, Fabspeeds, airbox mod, and a few minor odds and ends. I've put 7,000 miles on the car in three (3) months. I love it. I can toss it around with no more effort than the M3, but with plenty more speed (which ain't always so good). I'm sure the GT3 is several steps ahead of my 996, but for where? If life were only track days, then I certainly understand. But seriously, I hit 140 mph on the way to work this morning. I had the car fully rotated at 65mph sliding on an off-ramp headed to my office. Life as usual. I do it everyday. If I had my hands on a GT3, God knows where I would end up. A turbo? Jeez, i just don't need it. Perhaps my driving style suits this car perfectly. I love to turn the car in hard on the brakes and slide it through bends. I also like to take my girlfriend to dinner, or pick up groceries. In short, I can't really fault my 996's character, or capabilities. All this talk about 993 vs 996 seems a waste, because our lifestyles, and driving styles differ so greatly. My town is full of brand new tiptronic cabs and tipronic turbos. Dozens of them. Pretty cars, but definately cruisers. Fortunately, there are a handful of driving enthusiasts around here and I hope to meet up with them. So if you're around this place, speak up! As for my car, I'm going to drive the hell out of it. Rain, snow, traffic, track events, road trips, you name it.

AHMEN!

Hell yeah! Year round performance, comfort, and style is OK by me And I don't care what everyone says, the 2002+ headlights are better looking than round ones

Thanks for the inspiration post P1CR. Although I do not have a Porsche yet (currently a 2003 Z06), you have brought out a perspective on the standard 996 C2 that I have not yet heard. Many folks are talking about how they need the TT or a GT3 to get the real deal, but it is clear that the real deal still exists in the standard 996 format.

I can't help it. I'm all about driving. Racing karts gives me respect for the sport. I race in a "spec" class where all karts are equal, and extremely fast. The disparity amongst drivers is huge. You may see 6 second differences in lap times on a 40 second lap. I bet that if the 996 critics spent more time behind the wheel then at the keyboard, perhaps they would have a bit less to say, and less inspiration to get huge horsepower and giant aero kits. I'll get off my soap box now. thanks for listnening.

Great and timely post, a 996 C2 with a sports suspension and exhaust upgrade is every bit the visceral experience of an older 911.These cars really shine at the track. How about some pics of that Slate Gray with H&Rs.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!! P1CR, Did you install just the H&R springs or the full shock/springs, et al?

Twice I have tried to convince myself to like the tip. Twice I have gone with what was more fun... the 6-speed. Even got my wife out of her MB S430 and comfortable driving a manual transmission.

P1CR...why the badge delete? purposeful, or preference?

Alas, P1CR you do not have a real Porsche. Why? --It doesn't matter that it was made by Porsche --It doesn't matter that it was designed by Porsche --It doesn't matter that it is a rear-engine 6-cyl car --It doesn't matter that it goes like stink and handles great --Etc, Etc... Christ how silly sounding is that. Cheers, Chris

DJ 996; I'll work on the pics... Boca 996 Just the springs. I had a pretty serious group N coilover setup on the M3. That worked living in Atlanta, but now that I'm driving third world country roads, I have to be a little more soft. waflenutz...he he he...love the name... Badge delete? Just makes the car more subtle, clean or something. Purely aesthetics. cmoss I'm picking up your sarcasm. By that rational, will the 911 be lost if in fact it gets a new motor configuration some day? Or will the 911 always be the sports car Porsche made with all the knowledge and race-bred intent they had at the time? dunno. I'm going for a drive...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by P1CR: <strong>I bet that if the 996 critics spent more time behind the wheel then at the keyboard, perhaps they would have a bit less to say, and less inspiration to get huge horsepower and giant aero kits. .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">P1CR, True! You know you have the time at the PC keeping the 993 for the next owner, and trying to convince yourself that your car could be a RSR racecar in a easiest way than a 996...... <img border="0" alt="[icon501]" title="" src="graemlins/icon501.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Enjoy, enjoy, P1CR, there are many 'older' 911 owners like myself who think the 996's are great. I'd also like to think that as time goes by, the "it's not a real Porsche" crew, who regard anything other than an air-cooled rear-engined Porsche as sacrelige will either see sense or grow old and die out - God knows we've had to put up with the cracked record for long enough......

Isn't anybody going to say a word about the wisdom of going 140 mph on city streets ? Get a track !

Good luck to you P! My best mate just purchased a 996 a couple of months ago and although I prefer mine I do understand that all Porsches are wonderful cars. The 996 is far more refined than mine for example. I just have to have the caveman-like howl of the aircooled flat six, especially after some extensive exhaust mods. The 996 seems to have lost this? Have fun everybody! (p.s. I think 140mph is perfectly acceptable providing you are not putting anyone else at risk).

I have to admit. One of my favorite cars of all time, and one that I considered for a daily driver, was a 94' 3.6 turbo. I can't deny that shape, sound, etc. I love 'older' 911s. But again, I wanted to drive my car all the time, every day, with an easy transition to the track for some higher stakes driving. This car is just so easy with which to get along. It works well in every direction, and does very little wrong. It's comfortable and smooth, yet composed and fast. Is it the ultimate track tool? no. You want the ultimate track tool? Save your $80,000 and buy a kart. It'll be the fastest, most hardcore and difficult thing you'll ever do. A weekend at the track in my kart and my 996 feels like a lazy boy. Yes. 140 is way too fast on the road. Of course, this road is long, straight, smooth, and not heavily travelled. If there is ever another car anywhere near me, I travel at reasonable speeds. Tracks? Mid Ohio, Grattan, Gingerman, Waterford Hills, for the car. For the kart, South Bend, East Lansing, Jackson, MRP, Point Pelee, and the above car tracks.

I also love my 996 Cab. It's only my 6th Pcar, but I've thoroughly enjoyed every Porsche I've owned... and since my current one is a 996 Cab TipS, I believe that is the best one I've ever owned. In fact I don't know anyone who really was unhappy with their decision to buy whatever Porsche they chose. Since the car is never driven to it's limits I enjoy the stock engine. Long live the 996 <img src="http://www.fototime.com/8F7990AABE867DB/standard.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://www.fototime.com/46502B20D835838/standard.jpg" alt=" - " />

You rock, man. I like your style! Keep drivin' that 1999 battleship grey fun machine. I came over to the 996 board tonight for some fresh air and I got just what I needed. You've inspired me to drive the living $hit out of my car this year (only owned it for 6 months) and not keep it garaged on rainy days just so it stays clean. I'm a lazy bum and I hate cleaning it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Steve

Hey there Steve, Your car is beautiful. You're from MD? I grew up in Bethesda. Man do I miss it there. I found a girl here, though. So I guess I'm sticking around. She puts up with my crap. Drive the hell out of that thing. That's what it's there for. Take Care, Maz

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by DonW..from Cape Cod...: <strong>I also love my 996 Cab... Long live the 996 <img src="http://www.fototime.com/8F7990AABE867DB/standard.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://www.fototime.com/46502B20D835838/standard.jpg" alt=" - " /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That is easy for you to say! You have the best looking C4S Narrow-bodied cab out there <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Serioulsy, C4S with the sport exhaust is a great car to own (wish they would make a C2S...). But the only thing is that I wish Porsche would had used the same engine of the GT3 as the basis for the 996. The important thing here is, as was mentioned, to just enjoy the heck out of the car you have. My first two Porsches were 993s, love every second of ownership. Now I have the 964 and sometime in the next few months, my 951 back on the road. Do I have the itch for a 996? Yep. But my current cars have kept me happy for now that I can wait to see what the next version of the 911 will look/drive like. But, prices for second hand 996 are tempting.... decisions decisions... and there is always that lust for a 911 Turbo. <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

I hate to be a bore, which I must admit many think I am both inside and outside this forum. As I have said before the 996 is a great car, no question about it, but let's get away from the hardware. The issue I am really ragging about is that there has been a quiet paradigm shift and depart from tradition at Porsche. Historically when Porsche built the 356 it was available in 2 models: the normal 356 which had a pushrod 4 cylinder wet-sump engine and the Carrera which had an engine based on the 550 Spyder 4 cam, dry-sump racing engine. You paid for the difference. When the 911 was introduced this differentiation disappeared and the street cars had the an engine in common with the racing program and this became a tradition at Porsche. The racing cars and the street cars were related. There was an active racing program to support this. Porsche then quietly returned to the original paradigm of building a different street engine and race engine with the 996. This has finally been formalized in the USA with the introduction of the GT3- a car which was available in Europe since 1998. I realize that Porsche had to do this to keep the company afloat in hard times. I will stipulate that you do not need a racing engine to have an enjoyable street car. I will also agree this is a totally emotional issue for me and I am crazy. But, I feel much of what people pay for in a Porsche is tradition. Tradition breeds exclusiveness that people will pay for. If Porsche continues to build cars that are not steeped in tradition and does not have an active factory racing program to build tradition, soon they may not be building Porsche's as I have known them, something I would hate to see.... <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" />

...."I feel much of what people pay for in a Porsche is tradition. Tradition breeds exclusiveness that people will pay for. If Porsche continues to build cars that are not steeped in tradition and does not have an active factory racing program to build tradition, soon they may not be building Porsche's as I have"......up to now been willing to pay a premium for.... And "investing" in the SUV market rather than a racing reputation will get Porsche to mere mortal status at light speed....... I am not gonna pay a premium for a sports car that is related to a SUV........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Cupcar: <strong>But, I feel much of what people pay for in a Porsche is tradition. Tradition breeds exclusiveness that people will pay for. If Porsche continues to build cars that are not steeped in tradition and does not have an active factory racing program to build tradition, soon they may not be building Porsche's as I have known them, something I would hate to see.... <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Respect your views Cupcar, but can't agree - Porsche does have an active and hugely succesful factory racing program which is directly related to the 996. It's simply changed from fielding factory entries (that historically were remarkably unsuccesfull in the face of privateer or outsourced operations) to supporting many entries (including the Racers Group) and running a massively succesfull one make series at most Grand Prix. That there are two engine types available within the range is not something I have a problem with - they're both great engines. The 928 and 944/924S 8's and 4's were and are great engines too. I agree about tradition - Porsche has always been a Car manufacturer that went racing, not the other way around. It's priority has been to produce road cars, not to dominate world motorsport. That it managed for a time to do both was wonderful - but that period did not, does not and should not define the company. Porsches are not Ferraris thank God, they start first time and can be left out in the snow and don't need to be serviced at enormous expense every 5000 miles...... The current range IMHO remain the best, usable, most affordable sports cars in the world - which is all you can really ask of any Car manufacturer.

I agree, Porsche has an active customer racing program, but no factory racing program. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

The cars of the 60's 70's and 80's were very similar in qualitiy and technology. The 90's brought about a fundemental change in automobile products. Technology went through the roof. Cars are reliable, long lasting, safe and mostly economical to own. Porsche has not been secluded from this growth. It is no longer necessary to have a race motor in your car in order to have extreme performance. My 996 is a very fast car. The leap from a 996 to a GT3 race car is enormous, and perhaps the leap in years past was not so great. But that is not descriptive of Porsche losing it's way. It merely signifies that if you make your road cars so extreme, so race-worthy, and so exclusive, well then you will 'exclude' the broader market. So they built a road car whose fundementals can be raced with success. They made it streetable, reliable, and easy to appreciate. Porsche is an automobile manufacturer that uses racing to develop and market their products. And it seems their philosophy works pretty damn well. Furthermore. I want Cupcar's car. bad. A Carrera Cup in the States. How cool is that! Got pictures?

Here's a picture of my Cupcar at an autocross: <img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CornerexitpicturefromGregSmall.jpg" alt=" - " />

I want that! Those are kind of pricey, am I wrong?

New, I paid at a list price of $78,340 that was in 1992, now it's an open market. <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by P1CR: <strong> It is no longer necessary to have a race motor in your car in order to have extreme performance. My 996 is a very fast car. The leap from a 996 to a GT3 race car is enormous, and perhaps the leap in years past was not so great. But that is not descriptive of Porsche losing it's way. It merely signifies that if you make your road cars so extreme, so race-worthy, and so exclusive, well then you will 'exclude' the broader market. So they built a road car whose fundementals can be raced with success. They made it streetable, reliable, and easy to appreciate. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The new GT3 road car is very easy to live with on the road, it has nice squishy rubber top mounts and sits high and gives plenty of understeer -this is the car Porsche should be offering at the 996 price point - but no, Porsche is very clever and using its previous reputation produces a much cheaper car based heavily on the Boxster and makes BIGGG profit margin. Yes the 996 is a good car, but for what you paid, Porsche should have given you a GT3. The words rip and off spring to mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TB993tt: <strong> The words rip and off spring to mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hmmm..... Several other words in combination with off spring to my mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Perhaps what a load of big hairy dangly things is more to the point - the current 996 base model is priced at hardly any more if not less than the 993 was in base model spec. How many years ago was that? What should inflation have done to the price since then? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The new GT3 road car is very easy to live with on the road, it has nice squishy rubber top mounts and sits high and gives plenty of understeer </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Strange - not what I've read Walter Rohrl saying about the car - but then I haven't had the luxury of experiencing how balanced it is .....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Christian S.: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TB993tt: <strong> The words rip and off spring to mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hmmm..... Several other words in combination with off spring to my mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Perhaps what a load of big hairy dangly things is more to the point - the current 996 base model is priced at hardly any more if not less than the 993 was in base model spec. How many years ago was that? What should inflation have done to the price since then? The 993 was an expensive car to build -outdated construction methods, semi hand built, too many people involved - fantastic you got what you had paid for. The 996 takes 5 man hours to build (taken from Adrian on another thread) and its cost cannot be too far away from the Boxsters - this is the point, it is nothing to do with inflation, The 996 is much cheaper to build than the 993 was, so Porsche pocket the difference and make loads of money to fund the Cayenne in cash with no East German grants. It is brilliant business but I see it as a rip off -996 owners should at least have got the GT3 engine <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The new GT3 road car is very easy to live with on the road, it has nice squishy rubber top mounts and sits high and gives plenty of understeer </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Strange - not what I've read Walter Rohrl saying about the car - but then I haven't had the luxury of experiencing how balanced it is .....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The car Rohrl does the ring in must be specifically set up, you don't think Porsche would allow anything but an understeering biased 911 (out of the crate) to go to the litigatious USA do you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Oh and the new GT3 has a dual mass flywheel -non of that nasty low speed gear noise that some of us have to put up with

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TB993tt: <strong>The 993 was an expensive car to build -outdated construction methods, semi hand built, too many people involved - fantastic you got what you had paid for. The 996 takes 5 man hours to build (taken from Adrian on another thread) and its cost cannot be too far away from the Boxsters - this is the point, it is nothing to do with inflation, The 996 is much cheaper to build than the 993 was, so Porsche pocket the difference and make loads of money to fund the Cayenne in cash with no East German grants. It is brilliant business but I see it as a rip off -996 owners should at least have got the GT3 engine <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">However wonderful in its anachronistic way, (and I love 'em) the 993 was a motorway to bankrupcy - arguing that the 996 ought to be cheaper and have a different engine is like turkey's voting for christmas. Damn right Porsche makes money out of the 996 - without it, no Porsche. The real question to ask, is whether the current model range are good value? In the case of the 996, undoubtedly - you have to shell out 20-30 thou more to buy a better car from any other manufacturer. As for how well they are built - lets have this discussion in 20 years time - only then will be know whether modern manufacturing techniques are as long lasting as the old ones...... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>The car Rohrl does the ring in must be specifically set up, you don't think Porsche would allow anything but an understeering biased 911 (out of the crate) to go to the litigatious USA do you</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Our US contributors ought to be able to shed light on the US GT3 setup, but the GT3 available in the UK is identical to Herr Rohrl's.

Wish I oculd offer some fedback on the GT3. Can't. But I can offer plenty of feedback on Ferrari. I spend the majority of 5 years driving the entire range, old and new. Including plenty of time ont he track. The 996 is a great deal. A fantastic deal. The nutty prices attached to the options available, however, well, they're not such a great deal. I imagine many Rennlist readers are business owners. They must be able to respect the business philosophy needed to sell a product such as a car. The risk management must be mind bending. By the way. If you guys saw how I drive my car every day. Well, you just might think I got a good deal.

Tb993tt.....When i read you the only thing comes to my mind is &gt; Go out 'n drive!!!

Andreas Always happy to make someone laugh <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> everything I say to be taken with large dose of <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Close friend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> just managed 160mph on way home from work tonight coming off a slip road -feel that torque

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Z0650th: <strong>Thanks for the inspiration post P1CR. Although I do not have a Porsche yet (currently a 2003 Z06), you have brought out a perspective on the standard 996 C2 that I have not yet heard. Many folks are talking about how they need the TT or a GT3 to get the real deal, but it is clear that the real deal still exists in the standard 996 format.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sometimes I wished I had a ZO6 Vette...you're not exactly suffering. Many times I felt my car was not quick enough, untill I tested a 996TT and acclimatized rather quickly to the extra HP. If I had TT, I could see myself wanting more power within a few months time. The moral of the story: The best Porsche is the one sitting in your driveway!

Even though I do like the 993s (appearance & aircooled) better than the 996s, I must admit that the 996 is a better performing car in stock condition. I used to be a POC driving instructor and I drove several 996s at the Streets of Willow. I even had the priviledge of driving back to back with a 993 and there was no question which car handled better (996).

Hey, anti 996 guys, please leave this thread. In fact, if you don't have anything good to say about the 996, why are you on this forum? This thread was about us having a little respect for our cars. It's amazing how much time you guys spend here extolling the virtues of your bloody aircooled engines. I don't see many of us over there telling you how slow your cars are -- how poorly some of us think they drive & handle. Maybe we're out enjoying our cars. Some of us really don't care. You're getting really boring. We all know your engines are more robust. Let's just all agree to that, how 'bout?

I have been following these threads and keeping my mouth shut. I enjoy my 996 and think aside for the plastic interior that pops into place rather than being attached, it's a great car. A great touring car. But if everyone though the way you guys were talking, then why I am taking such a beating with my resale value?? Anyone interested in a beautiful 1999 Cobalt Blue Aero that listed for over $90,000 with 19K miles?