Another M3 graduate taking the plunge

Well, finally decided to fulfill a life-long dream and buy a new 911! I've got some questions that that I hope I can get some help on. I want to place an order this week. It's very difficult to get more than a very short test drive at a dealership, which is making it very hard to decide whether I want/need AWD. One thing I'm concerned about is steering feel. My points of reference are a E36 M3, E36 M coupe, E46 M3, and A6 4.2 sport. The A6 sometimes feels a little bit like a FWD car in some situations, which is something I don't like. Does the C4/C4S ever feel like that? I'll be getting the PSE. And I understand there is a mod to prevent the cutoff at 30-45 mph. Is this something that most dealers are familiar with? The salesperson I spoke with was not familiar with that at all. On the C4S, is it possible to buy the ROW suspension (like you can with the ROW M030 for the C2)? What others options are good for lowering the car a bit? Does anybody else think that the new lights are a little big for the front of the C2? I think they look great on the C4S/Turbo and it looks like they were designed originally to be a better visual balance to the large front intake on those cars. But it looks out of place maybe on the C2. This might be me staring at too many hundreds on pics of 996s this weekend! But this morning I saw a pre-02 996C2 and it just looked right to me. BTW, I'm still trying to decide between the C2 and C4S. I'm reading through lots of great posts on that subject on this board and others. Thanks for the great resource. Thanks for the input! I hope to be part of the club soon.

The C4's don't feel like they are FWD because the max power to the front wheels is only 40%, but typically around 30%. I think that the 30-45 cut-off only happened on the pre MY01 cars. Now there is a switch that allows you to turn it off. Yes the ROW M030 is available for the C4S. Good luck!

Welcome soon to be P-car owner! I don't think you can go wrong with either a C4S or a C2, both are great cars. I guess the question would be how do you plan to use the car? Weekender or daily? What type of weather do you encounter in your area? I think the C4S and the Turbos are great looking cars. I've driven both a C4S and C2 in the back roads, the cars feel different. The C4S feels heavier, probably the AWD, and felt more planted. The C2 was more "tossable" and required a little more driver involvement. Just my opinion. I didn't get a chance to really drive the C4S like I would a C2 (I own a C2, the C4S was a friends) so this was a short test drive impression. Hoped this helped....

Thanks, Charles. Your impressions are consistent with other things I've read. Yes, I did forget to include how I plan to use it. It will be a weekend car primarily with maybe 1-day a week commute as a treat and break from the metro. (ok, maybe that will become 2-3 days a week after I get this thing!) Plus I plan to attend 2-3 DEs a year. It's been raining a lot here lately, but that's atypical. I probably won't use the car too much in the winter. But when it does rain in the summer here, it's usually a torrential thunderstorm. Thanks again for the input.

My wife is on her second A6 4.2 Sport (the '00 was pretty beat up from Tahoe winters and had the crappy old trans, the '02 is lighter in color for the desert, has the new sport-mode trans w/ thumb shifters). The A6 feels nothing like the C4S. Like NYC said, the bias is entirely different. IMO, the C4S steering does not feel as light, crisp, and delicious as the C2 (I haven't had breakfast yet). One analogy would be jumping in an S4 after driving your M3. Good, but different. Happy Shopping! -DT

Dirk, thanks for the analogy. Is the diff between C4 and C2 really a lot like the S4 vs. M3? If that's the case, then you really helped me decide, because I much prefer the M3s to the S4s I have driven!

personally would go for the c2 - much as have liked and driven a no 2 and 4wd sports cars - the 4wd are always easier to drive fast but consequently with less driver involvment. the c2 is far more fun to chuck around corners as you do have to balance it more than the c4 which will go pretty much in the direction the wheels are pointing. re the audi - found alot of the performance audi's a little souless - bloody fast and efficient at point to point but not so much fun, sure there will be others that disagree

I wouldn't go as far as calling it an equal comparison - the C4S feels a LOT like the C2, as it's the same car, more or less. The difference is subtle, unlike the very different nature of the M3 vs S4. I made the C2-C4S comparison w/ back-to-back test drives, whereas my experience with the M3 vs S4 is drawn on separate driving experiences. -DT

pcar_finally, I live in Northern VA too - where are you getting the car? BTW - I got to drive mine all throughout the recent rains - no problems at all. Good luck, Ed

I don't know where I'm getting it. I guess wherever I can get a nice deal. Any recommendations?

Buyt the 911. You'll love it.

I sold my 99 M3 to buy the C4S. I drove the C2 extensively and certainly liked it also. I have found the suspension on the 996s I have driven better than my M3 for the crappy Chicago roads. This was something I did not anticipate. However, I think the M3 was a little more fun at low speeds than my C4S. That could be due to weight, maybe, or rear-wheel drive. . .hard to say. Just a feeling, I guess. A lot of low end torque on the E36 M engines also. . .

One other comment - if the phenomonal traction of the C4S appeals to you, but you do decide on the C2, get PSM. As I'm sure you've experienced, BMW's traction control pretty much steps all over your "ultimate driving experience", whereas PSM is much, much less intrusive, keeps you on a little longer leash. BMW's feels like it was designed by lawyers, Porsche's feels like it was designed by drivers. This is what I liked least about my '02 M5 (sold). I had an '02 C2 w/o PSM, and despite evolutionary changes to 911 suspension, she'll still swap ends if you let 'er. PSM is standard on the C4S. And remember, you can always turn it off. -DT

pcar_finally, I got mine in May - I used the washington post car section, and checked out the local dealers - Porsche of Arlington (used to be heishmans), HBL of Tysons, etc. I ended up going local from the post. There was a pretty good inventory of late model 911s to choose from. Ed

Get the C4S. Or better yet, C4S Cab. The wide body, wider tires, and AWD make it an awsome handling car. As for RoW M030 suspension, you are going to have to do it after you purchase your vehicle. You cannot get RoW anything stock in the US.

Here's something no one else mentioned. I'm not sure whether it suits you or not, but there are some GREAT deals on used 996s right now. If you must have new, I'm sure you can find a dealer willing to take your $, but with the large supply and anticipation of the 997s in a year or two, its a buyers market for the used cars. If nothing else, you should at least check out what's available (www.cars.com and <a href="http://www.autotrader.com" target="_blank">www.autotrader.com</a> have extensive sections from newspaper syndicates across the country). Consider that the 2002 year saw some bigger changes for the car and that warranties for the 1999s and 2000s are running off soon. To me, it was worth having someone else pay for the depreciation and taxes in exchange for a car that was a few years old. Just my two cents - happy hunting. Oh, and for your own sanity, please make sure you are patient enough to get EXACTLY the car you want - its out there and you CAN find it, even if it does take more than a weekend or two.

since you mentioned it rains a lot in your area and you only track 2-3 times/year, i would get C4S. the front end is less floaty than C2. it drives like RWD until you need more traction, then you can feel the front tires pulling you through corners. if you are not acustomed to 911's then you will find C4S much more stable then C2. no, C4S vs C2 isn't like S4 vs. M3. futher, unless you get a stripped C2, as soon as you start to option the C2, before you know it, it's within 5k of the price of a C4S. finally, some people may think you can't throttle steer and hang the tail out in a C4S. that's incorrect. i can hang the tail out on both my C4S or C2 and throttle steer both as well. yes, get PSM. if you drive with 100% attention and you are the only one on the road, you won't need PSM, but if someone hits his brakes hard in a turn while you are right behind him, without PSM, you are as good as dead.

I would hardly call the front end of a C2 "floaty". Too me, that term means numb, and that's the sensation I get from AWD steering, even if it does maintain more contact. I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's the feeling, or lack of, that I get. As I stated above, it is not nearly as pronounced with Porsches, but it's definitely there. You have to push a C4S pretty hard before it oversteers, compared to a C2 (PSM off). I also have a Miata (in Maui), and one of the best things about the car is that you can have fun at its limit without triple-digit speeds. I personally enjoy the classic Porsche handling traits of the C2, even if Porsche is capable of building something with more grip. Therein lies the debate. Both camps are "right". Yes, my C2 cost more than many C4S's, but I wasn't forced into buying the options as with the C4S, I chose them individually. Would it be worth as much as a C4S if I were to sell it? I sincerely doubt it, but I was able to spec the exact car I wanted. Bottom line, AWD in a sports car isn't for everyone. Neither 2WD or 4WD is better than the other (C2, GT3, GT2, CGT are 2WD, C4S, Turbo are 4WD). Just different. I would suspect, however, that this is not why most people buy a C4S. Turbo-look cars have always been popular. Thing is, the C4S is an awesome car in its own right - it shouldn't have to *look* like anything! -DT

Thanks again everyone for the great info. This really helps me focus on the specific tradeoffs here. No doubt both cars are well beyond anything I've ever owned before! From what I've read here and elsewhere and from my own brief drives, I think the C2 has the slight edge in "fun to toss around" esp. at the low speeds we see here in the US and the smallish tracks I have access to. (This is a somewhat subjective advantage.) Plus there is more cash for upgrades and track time. On the other hand the C4S has the edge in looks (IMO, not necessarily b/c it looks like the turbo), as well as an edge in safety in unexpected situations and rainy days. Also the C4S ultimately has more traction, is more competent, and may be a better choice for the driver who is not experienced in 911s. Which one will I get? I don't know yet. But I will try to drive both again soon now that I have a better idea what I am looking for. The first couple of test drives were too overwhelming (too busy going "Wow!" in my head to really objectively evaluate the cars) Also, BSC, thanks for the reminder on used 996s. I will keep my eye out for some low mileage bargains, but if the savings are not much I'd rather have the brand new car and 0 clock. Just a personal issue. It seems like there are deep discounts on new cars right now and there is no more luxury tax, and in my state there is no real tax savings on used cars. Plus financing is a little cheaper on new cars. If I find a C4S for very low 70s or C2 for low 60s, then I'll consider it. Otherwise, I'll be ordering.