26 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHquestions re PSM and S version
Reported or suspected cause
first water bird........all
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Read evidence and context
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Reported cause
So what it was the first water bird........all that have come since are the same.
Leading evidence: 'first water bird........all' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'first water bird........all' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust driving style' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
After removing fuses, talking to PCNA, tech advisor, etc I had to adjust my driving style.
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Suggestion
The GT-3 997 I had also had PSM but the limits were adjusted upwards and I could left foot brake with it.
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Suggestion
I used to run 36f and 44r for pressure, but have recently run 36f and 40r.
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Suggestion
I used to run 36f and 44r for pressure, but have recently run 36f and 40r.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
No further issues so far with PSM, and like I said, my tires are properly inflated.
Sorry if these bits of info are available easily, but I'm not finding them
1) When did PSM become standard or so common that it was basically so?
2) How much faster around a racetrack is the S version of a C2 compared with a non-S of the same year? Is the 3.6 liter non-S significantly quicker than the earlier 3.4 liter?
Thanks in advance
Not sure on #1.
No "C2S" as far as I know in either 996.1 or 996.2. 3.8l engine in the "S" config of C2 became available w/ 997.1 in 2005.
996 C4S is (as a Rennlister pointed out to me) probably slower than most base coupes simply because of extra weight but same engine.
Cheers -
Correct, no C2S. C4S may be just slightly slower in a straight line, but upgraded turbo suspension and brakes and fatter tires make it beat lap times on twisty tracks.
Food for though.....A 996 w/the X51 power kit (345HP) would be within 10 HP of a 997.1 Carrera S (355HP). Those 2 cars should be comparable if the stock suspension of the 996 were slightly upgraded to the sports suspension of the 997S, right?
Sure I guess on paper. The big variable is the driver. I have seen plenty a slow car having the tires driven off passing everything in sight by a driver with good skills. More so than a fast car with a slow driver.
PSM is a standard feature on all AWD variants of the 996.
In Porsche's internal testing, the 996 C4S was approximately 4 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the C2. Most people attribute this to the suspension, larger tires and brakes (the engine is the same as the C2, as previously mentioned). I'll try to find a link to the test and I'll post it if I can find it. I know there's a reference to it in Excellence Magazine in the past.
Still looking. I found this link, but I'm not sure if it's a comparison of late model 996s or early model 997s.
Nordschleife Lap Records
In this article, times are posted for a 2004 911 Carrera, as well as a 2004 911 Carrera S. The only Carrera S in the 996 series was the C4S. Both cars are driven by Walter Rohrl. The 911 Carrera completes the circuit in 8:15.00 with a top speed of 150 kmh. The 911 Carrera S completes the circuit in 7:59.00 with a top speed of 155 kmh.
I find it hard to believe that there would be such a discrepancy between a 996 C2 and a 996 C4S, which leads me to think that this may be early 997 cars. I will try to find the link to the 996 information or to confirm that these are, in fact, the 996 times.
EDIT: Upon further review, it appears that these are 997 times, not 996 times. It looks like the 996 MK I and MK II 911 Carrera posted an 8:17.00 time. I don't see the C4S in this comparison.
+996, plus it's a moot point on these forums anyways since friends don't let friends drive stock. Especially on the 996 platform which has one of the least investment potentials, why leave it stock?
I remember seeing a video about 10 years ago when the Cayenne was launched. In the video, Cass Whitehead and a few other Porsche team drivers were doing laps in a V6 Cayenne. They were easily keeping up with, and sometimes passing 996s on the track. It definitely proves that the driver is the biggest factor when comparing lap times.
I had my PSM switch on for the first time this weekend. Roads were dry (California this winter) and temp was 40 degF. Took a slightly spirited left hander, and the PSM kicked in. Funky feeling. '04 911TTx50.
In the past, I've thrown the car into corners as if it were my mother in law, and no PSM activation. It happened again a couple of minutes later in another left hander.
My wife's AMG CL55 seems to have its traction control come on whenever you accelerate over debris or whatever. But the Porsche, I'd never had it come on.
I thought, perhaps, since both instances happened on left hand turns, perhaps one side of my tires had low inflation. Nope. All within spec.
I used to run 36f and 44r for pressure, but have recently run 36f and 40r. Wonder if that could do it?
Yep, they would be much slicker at 40F than at 70F. The PSM on my '02 C2 used to kick in all the time with the Sumitomo's on it, but never kicks in with the PS2s.
Dennis & Perry -- thanks for the data points. I'm running Hankook's Ventus V12's, and I believe they are more summer tire than anything. I should mention that it was only after about 5 minutes of driving, and the ambient temperature before then was in the mid to low-30s. Totally makes sense. No further issues so far with PSM, and like I said, my tires are properly inflated. I'll just be mindful in colder weather -- even if it's not less than 32 degF.
The PSM button/function was the bane of my existence back when they became stock with the first 996's. I traded in a 993 that did not have PSM, had a 1972 911 before that and always left foot braked for autocross. That triggers the PSM to come on even if you have the button turned off.
After removing fuses, talking to PCNA, tech advisor, etc I had to adjust my driving style. The GT-3 997 I had also had PSM but the limits were adjusted upwards and I could left foot brake with it. That is one fast ride and never found the need to activate the PSM.
My 2001 CS2 was the fastest time of day for street Porsches at 2 autocrosses this summer except for a guy in a 997 GT-3. I beat a good driver in a 997 on both occaisions.
The best thing you can do is learn to drive your car well at a DE or local autocross then figure out what it needs.
The traction control system is part of the PSM system. There was LSD (Limited Slip Differential) available on the 1999 cars, but not the later cars. PSM wasn't standard on all 996 cars, but it was on all AWD cars.
Traction control was available in 1999 in the C2. All AWD 996 models (C4, C4S, turbo) had PSM standard, traction control was no longer available after 1999. PSM was never standard on the base Carrera models. PSM does include a "traction control" function, but it is different in design than the system available in the 40th and the available (optional) traction control system in the 1999 Carreras (as those incorporated a low lock up ratio limited slip diff). Namely, PSM includes yaw/steering angle and suspension compression sensors, and is able to brake all wheels independently, or relieve braking pressure. Also, if memory serves me correctly, it's able to open the throttle a couple of degrees upon lift off throttle steer.
PSM on 996s is primitive by modern standards and it does very annoyingly intervene (even when switched off) if the brakes are applied. At least it allows off brake sideways shenanigans and throttle oversteer.
post #10:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...questions.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...an-option.html
good read about PSM:
http://www.deter.com/porsche/PSM.html
Which I have NEVER understood!.......great looking car, great performer. So what it was the first water bird........all that have come since are the same. LOADS of car for the money.....well undervalued......ok, maybe I'm biased but from an unbiased viewpoint.......a GREAT car!
I am so happy to dig up your comment. I put my summer Sumitomos back on a couple of weeks ago (for the winters-- Michelin Pilot Alpins) and started having PSM triggering on the fronts in hard corners.
As it turns out, the rears are brand new but the fronts are about one dry season from being at the indicators.
At first I thought the alignment (which I had never had adjusted) was the isssue and sure enough they were a bit out of alignment but that didn't solve the problem 100%. Then I took the pressure down a bit from 36 to 32. Also an incremental improvement, but not a 100% fix.
Then I read your post and everything makes sense. I'll go ahead and replace the front tires if it persists while the weather warms up.
Question, though. Why now? No issues with slippage triggering PSM ever before on the same tires with essentially the same treadwear.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
