Clutch pedal went soft and couldn't put it into any gears - 2003 C4S

Hi Folks, This morning on my way to work, the clutch pedal went soft on me and it was very hard to engage any gears... after a few tries, it wouldn't engange in any gears. I got it into 2nd and drove home as I wasn't to far away and switched cars and went in to work. I'm guessing that my clutch is finished. Any suggestions on any other possible item that could be causing this? Also, I called the Ottawa dealer for a quote on a clutch job, and they said they offer "complete clutch jobs" and they will get back to me on a price... I havent't heard from them as of yet. How much is a clutch replacement usually? Thanks, Alin

Alin, It doesn't sound like clutch is bad… more like hydraulics aren't working right. When you say hard to engage, you mean getting the shifter INTO the gear or when you let out the pedal to get the car moving? -Sam

I am with Sam, I have had a slave cylinder go bad and cause that.

I'd check the fluid level in the Clutch Master Cylinder, I'm with Sammy, sounds more like something happened with the hydraulics (Clutch MC, Slave Cylinder or line/fittings).

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Yes, the clutch pedal went to mush, and I was downshifting into 2nd and noticed it had some resistance. Then I pressed the clutch down again to try again to see if it will go in smoothly and then it had even more resistance. I then stopped, got it into first with some resistance and as I was trying the gears at the light I noticed that none would engage. It wouldn't let me go into any, the gates felt closed. I tried putting it in 1st again and it popped out on me. I then put it into 2nd (forced) and took off from 2nd and drove home in second as I was close. Do you guys have any specific places that I can check. I will be jacking the car up tonight to look... I will of course check the clutch fluid but anything else specifically that I can look at on my end before bringing it into a shop? Thanks, Alin

Check the Blinker Fluid while you are in there

For me it's about the same but the Clutch Master Cylinder is leaking over the pedal. It seems to be very hard to change by myself.If someone has the DOY ,I'am interested.

Also check the clutch slave cylinder mounted to the tranny from underneath for any seapage, especially around the piston area. Does it react any different if you try pumping your clutch a few times before you engage a gear by chance?

I'll be looking into the issue a little more when I get home. I didn't really have time to diagnose anything. I felt the travel of the clutch pedal depreciated by a lot, and it seemed that even tho I was pressing the clutch to the floor, the travel length to the floor seemed much shorter and I don't even think I heard that relay click either. So if the pedal assembly is the problem somehow, then it wouldn't let me get into gears regardless. I'm planning on checking the following: 1. Pedal assembly, helper spring and everything else going on down there. 2. Fluid. Anything else I should inspect? Blinker fluid is topped up! Blinking beautifully! lol

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Pumping the clutch didn't do anything. It still felt like much and the gears were still impossible to get into it. At first I was able to get into the gears with some force, but around the end they just wouldn't go in at all. Worst case I would've had to shut the car off, put it into 2nd, start the car and take off in 2nd to avoid a tow, but luckily I was able to get it into 2nd gear and drive home.

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You have a leak inside the car on your clutch pedal?

don't waste you time checking, its your Pressure Plate. Bent or Broken Fork. Been there done that... Twice

Here's an article with pictures showing where to look: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...Hydraulics.htm Or you could just get together with the guy who posted about his clutch getting hard after 5 mins ;-)

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Thanks! I already got 2 tech articles from there in regards to the topic. I'll be looking at everything later today.

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Same symptoms Zookie? How much was your repair bill and what other things did you look at or fix etc?

I'm with Zookie ^^

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Unless you are running an aftermarket clutch, I really doubt your fork broke. Sounds like Zookie is running a racing setup if he went through 2?

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All Stock!

My Indy mentioned that the pressure plate is common on these cars. Labour would be $900, clutch kit is $800, and machining the flywheel is $200 and replacement of the flywheel if needed is 1K. I'll check the hydraulic assembley and I'll inspect underneath for any leaks... If not, I guess its time for a whole new clutch kit replacement... Not to sure how I feel about this happening, but I guess it is what it is. If a clutch kit is needed, I'll have the IMS inspected since it was a newer crate engine installed in 2006 (approx) and anything else I should look into replacing since it'll be all open? AOS? Thoughts? Thanks, Alin

Clutch is a wear item. Simply goes with having a manual transmission. They will not last forever. $1500 with parts sounds about right. Your labor seems high. Specify the replacement clutch assembly (brand) with your Indy prior to work. You get to pick, do some research. Machining flywheel is a must if you want this to last. You might consider a replacement slave cylinder as well. Good time to do it. You cannot easily do the AOS w/clutch kit unless the motor is being dropped. Consider RMS and IMSB replacement with upgrades.

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It's my only Indy option without going to the dealer. So I can't really fight the labour price really... I was thinking of going completely stock again with the clutch kit... Sad thing is that it wasn't slipping or anything. It's not like it wore out on me. How much does a slave cylinder go for? I'd consider RMS, but not the IMSB replacement...

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I did myself when I worked at SCB, parts were my Cost. It was cheaper to buy the 3 Components (PP, CP & TOB) Separately rather than as a Kit lol. I did change the Slave Cylinder it was Beat, also did the AOS while I was in there. But the Usual PP, CP and TOB were done. And there is no Absolute Reason to Machine or Replace the Fly Wheel. Don't fall for that. Really? Racing Set-Up on a Stock 3.6L N/A? That would be some Retarted fellow, but I know a few

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How much was the Slave Cylinder if you recall?

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$800 sounds about right for the Clutch Kit, shop is making 30 Point on that, sounds Fair. Slave Cylinder is $156.13 Retail so your shop should offer it for Less

Dealer just called and they want $2800 plus tax and they mentioned that they don't machine flywheels, they replace them. The only problem I have with going stock is if the pressure plate is a weakness, why not upgrade it to a better one?

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because there is no need. its a Ware and Tear like your Brakes.

So there's a lot of fluff in regards to the flywheel. My dealer doesn't machine and my indy does. Some say to go new with the flywheel, some say machining will suffice. Thoughts? Indy price with machining before taxes: $1900 Dealer price with new flywheel before taxes: $2800

dude! leave the Fly Wheel alone!

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I've been there and done that as well. Chased the hydraulics for days before finally accepting the fact that the clutch spring plate broke. A clutch kit from Pelican is $700 (when I last checked). That buys the clutch, disc, and throwout bearing. Flywheel is often replaced unnecessarily for huge money and the slave cylinder and AOS as well. The slave and AOS are not expensive, and the slave is as easy to replace with the trans in as it is out.

I just has a similar problem with my 03 c4s, soft pedal, except it wouldn't go into reverse without some fiddling. Now my clutch is slipping in 3rd, IMS/RMS/clutch replacement here I come!

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Out of curiosity, how many miles do you have on your 996? Do you drive in a lot of stop and go traffic which requires you to depress the clutch a lot? Or any hard launches?

I got the clutch kit off of ebay for $500+tax (sachs) which is the same as OEM or it is OEM (so I was told) did the labor myself and paid $80 for resurfacing of the flywheel as I had some burn marks on it and also did RMS only at the same time. All together it was around $700 as I recall.

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You commented on my thread with the horrible noise I got fixed. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...5-minutes.html Maybe these are related, as the solution to my horrible noise was the incorrect assembly of the release arm, and it had not been greased properly when changed.

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My car has 04 C4S 197,500km. It is a Daily Driver, Winter Beater and Track ***** and is in the process of getting a new engine

Sorry, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious anymore :-0

So I decided to take it to my Indy. I'll be dropping it off Sunday night and they'll be working on it during the week. Porsche Ottawa were booked until June 3rd lol. Although they said to drop it off and they can work on it if they free up. I wasn't going to take the risk of not having it for a month, and it kicking around in a parking lot with tons of clients swinging doors beside it. I have a really good indy, and this way I'll save $800 if the flywheel just needs surfacing/machining. I'll be getting the RMS and IMS looked at and most likely going to get the RMS done since it's right there. I'm sure I could of purchased the Sachs clutch kit online and saved $100, but that's alright... Now... the shop is about a 25 min highway ride, I could flatbed it using a friends CAA, and offer him some cash of course, or I can take it late late Sunday night and drive in 2nd up until the highway on-ramp, stop and shut the car off, put it in 3rd, and let it catch speed on the on-ramp and drive in 3rd all the way to the off-ramp, stop and repeat steps to get it in 2nd and drive the car that way to the shop... Life's problems eh...

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think what you want, I gave you Facts

Update - It was the pressure plate that failed. Flywheel will be machined/resurfaced. RMS was slightly leaking so that will be changed. IMS looked good and since it's a "newer" engine, I will leave it as is. One thing that surprised me was that the mechanic noticed a "rubber part" which was starting to crack that he suggested I replace. He mentioned it is a $500 part... Does anyone know which he is referring to? I find it really ashame that a car at this pricepoint has this many weaknesses. Slightly dissapointed actually.

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Is he talking about the Rubber Coupling for the AWD Driveshaft? Mine was cracked too, didnt bother changing it. Anyone have Part#?

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Might be. It would be a part that would require splitting the trans/motor since he mentioned "Since we are in here, might as well". So if the rubber coupling can be replaced without splitting the trans/motor then I doubt it's the same part.

My hats off to Zookie for identifying the problem over the internet... Topaz, are you the original owner? Do you drive it hard? How many miles? I am still surprised the PP failed (not so much in Zookie's case because of his duty cycle)? I could see maybe with a few hard launches, coupled with the AWD traction might be quite stressful on the PP?

I am the 3rd owner. First owner was a owner of a VW dealer in California and didn't drive it for long until selling it to his friend, I then bought it off him (millionaire). There was a new Porsche motor installed (warranty) in late 2005 due to scored cylinders. Also, when I bought the vehicle 4 years ago there was a new clutch kit installed so I thought I was golden in that sense (new engine, new clutch). I have full service docs on the car. It currently sits at 96 kilometers. I bought it at about 50 Kilometers. I've been driving standard cars all my life and I'm VERY meticulous about the way I shift. I drive this car like every Porsche owner should, harder at times but never track-hard. I open it up a bit here and there (Italian tune-up) and I know that these cars need to be driven properly. I don't do much stop and go either. I feel like this was just a odd fluke of it failing... I can't explain it any other way. The clutch itself was hardly even worn out. The Flywheel was in top shape as well. I love the car to death, but just by looking at the occurrences of problems, it’s a disappointment. I haven’t had a single problem with the car until this incident though and I admit that, but If I bought new, it would’ve been a different story. I am debating on selling it after I fix the clutch (which will be tomorrow).... Someone will be getting a really well sorted car with a solid engine and brand new clutch kit car. Ideally it would be an optimal time to sell. Still debating though. I’m trying to get into a 2009 Vantage next but the selection in Canada is a little on the weak side thus I’d preferably like to go to the U.S for my purchase. The problem is the CAD is sitting very low and the conversion rate will be a big factor.