Changing pads & Rotors - Truly req'd to change vibration dampers?

OK so I have a new set of Pagid sport pads to be installed on new Zimmerman drilled rotors. Please note this is for a Boxster S but you guys get WAY more traffic, and IIRC the 986S calipers are the same as the C2 caliper. Posted this on a Boxster forum but hoped for a more prompt answer here. Was reviewing the procedure in the shop manuals just in case something was different than all the other brake jobs I've done. Well there is one thing. The 986S procedure calls for new vibration dampeners all around. I called my local shop and they said that 4 are required at front and back. The front ones retail for $25 and the rears for $5 EACH. So that is $120 bucks for little freaking pads. They'll discount them for me but nonetheless it is just insane to me to pay almost $100 for those on top of $700 for pads and rotors all around. Also please don't say call Sunset, that is not an option. So are new ones absolutely necessary? BTW, Zimmerman drilled rotors for the 986S are not directionally vaned. The holes are drilled like they are, but the internal vanes are radial and thus the aftermarket Zimmerman rotors are not side-specific like the OEM ones. Just a fun point.

You should be fine reusing the old dampers as long as this is the first brake pad change on the car. You may need to use a putty knife to seperate the old damper from the old brake pad backing plate. I have a pad and front rotor change on my list of things to do to my 2000 C2 and I plan to reuse my old dampers. Good luck.

Eric, I did the front brakes on my previous 996. I used OEM rotors and Mintex red box pads. I tried to reuse the vibration dampeners. My car squealed like a pig. I drove it for less than 100 miles before I did the brakes all over again. I used OEM pads and new anti-vibration dampeners. They worked perfect. I would say it's a gamble to try and do it without the new dampeners. I would never try it again. It wasn't worth the frustration. Just my 2 cents.

eric: looks like your are coming out of T-12 AT PIR.. I have reused them but only on PCA pads.... black and green (PCCB)

I changed both the front and rears pads and reused all the dampeners. The pads were Hawk Ceramics and between the pads and the dampeners I used Wurth anti squeel spray. I've used the Wurth spray on every pad change across 5 different cars and have never had any noise issues.

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picking up new battery. Spoke with service foreman (IIRC this is his title) about Boxster servicing and mentioned I did alot of my own and in fact just a few thousand miles back did the front brakes: pads, rotors. He asked if I used the old vibration dampeners. I misheard and told him I replaced the brake hardware: The retaining clip, pin, and spring clip, but not the caliper bolts. He corrected my mistake and then I replied I did not reuse the old vibration dampeners and haven't used them since I replaced the first (factory) pads/rotors at around ... Good Grief! I can't remember now: Anyhow, it has been thousands of miles ago. (Car recently rolled odometer over the 180,000 mile mark and some early services are getting fainter in my memory day by day. I could look at my invoices for parts and come up with better mileage numbers for some of these services is necessary.) In fact, I replaced pads at all 4 wheels once, then pads/rotors (all around) once and now (well just recently) front pads/rotors again. Since the first time the car has never had the vibration dampeners in place. I removed the old ones using a putty knife and never bothered to replace them. I did resolve to if the brakes developed a squeal or other irritating noise I'd bite the bullet and replace them. However, the brakes have not ever squealed other than very lightly when really hot and when used lightly and then not consistently. However the shop foreman told me that all brake hardware: retaining clips, pins, spring clips, caliper bolts, wear sensors and vibration dampeners should be replaced with new hardware every time the pads/rotors changed. I do not know why, at least regarding the hardware other then the vibration dampeners (and the wear sensors). With the vibration dampeners the old one simply may not work well enough to dampen vibration and their absence could very well lead to brake noise/squeal. I do not see any other negative to not having the vibration dampeners installed but that doesn't mean there isn't any. My point is that regardless of my experience/example you would probably do well to listen to the shop foreman (through me) and replace not only the vibration dampeners with new ones but also the rest of the brake hardware when the brakes are renewed. Sincerely, Macster.

I did a lot of researsch when I changed my pads and found that many track types don't use dampers because is makes changing the pads a pain at the track. Without them you can easily side the pads out in a few seconds making the pad change a snap. I decided to leave them out too, even though I bought them, and have had no issues. It's easy to get the car up in the air and pull the pads for inspection after a day at the track or just to check pad wear.

Thanks... the Boxster is a daily driver and is mainly used by my fiancee, so I'm gonna keep that car civilized. I have my own toys as you can see! It is a seriously fun car to drive though. She might do a DE day or two this summer but only for the car control practice. Well, and I might try it once too of course, but we have a dedicated track car in the family. It's a nice twisty PacNW forest road cruiser. Besides, most of my local clubs ban convertibles at the track anyway. I don't use the backing pads on the 944's but that is a different story altogether. Those get far fewer miles between inspection and replacement. Regardless, as on many things it sounds 50/50. The responses I got over on 986forum.com were about the same. Figured I'd ask around before dropping another hundred bucks right now. Track season is coming up and MY cars need the cash all to themselves!

I don't run the pads behind the pads in EITHER of my P-Cars. A serious PITA to deal with as often as I was changing pads for the track and I noticed ZERO difference on the street. Of course, you get the occasional noise from time to time but nothing at all to worry about it. I actually have an ENTIRE set of vibration pads for my 996CAB that I didn't put on and are still in the package. I had a big order some time back and inadvertently ordered them. Not worth shipping back as I will either sell them at a loss to one of the guys here or just use them on the next pad change on my CAB since it is 100% street car now and never will see the track.

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Dont mean to hijack and I may of read this wrong but which car did you hit 180k on?

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I think he has 180,000 miles on his 996. Of course, the 996 in question has had four(4) engine changes performed to it. Not to mention the fact that about 1,000 of those miles are from literally pushing the car to the repair shop after each blown engine incident.

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visit here in the Carrera forums and elsewhere to try to pick up knowledge of Carreras. Sincerely, Macster.

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installed (the original one developed a noise that indicated water pump going bad -- bearing) and installed new battery (replacing original). Over the 180,000+ miles I've driven car -- since buying it new -- car has not failed to start save once, and that was just after this Christmas holiday upon returning from 7 or 8 day trip away during which time car was parked. I left it with OBD2 code reader/data viewer plugged in to OBD2 connector and that may have contributed to the battery's weak condition, too weak to turn engine over but enough power to allow trunk locks to work. Assisted by jumper cables connected to my other car a jump start and the engine fired right up but decided to replace battery anyhow. Only 3 times I've had to have car flatbedded: After hitting road debris and breaking driver's side radiator which resulted in total coolant loss; Upon being advised engine misbehavior likely due to failing/failed air/oil separator and being further advised to avoid driving car any; and when I self-diagnosed noise was from failing water pump and not willing to risk driving car to Porsche dealership in Walnut Creek CA (about 20 miles from me) to have water pump replaced. Best car I've ever owned! I expect it to run another 180,000+ miles, at least! Sincerely, Macster.

Dangit, I was hoping a 996......

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go that distance. The 986/996 engines are quite similar, differing of course in displacement and output. Given reasonable care, treatment, and a bit of luck -- I had feared losing coolant would have caused some head gasket problems but apparently not, for that incident occurred several years ago and many tens of thousands of miles in the past -- there is no reason why these engines can't run 100,000, 150,000, 200,000 or even more miles. To the best I can determine with my butt dyno, the engine does not exhibit any decrease in performance, although spark plugs are due to be changed (they have around 90,000 miles on them) and I think the MAF is acting up a bit (although MAF has over 80,000 miles on it). To some extent it depends upon usage. I can tell you I didn't rack up 180,000 miles using car for short trips. It gets some of that, but it gets driven long distances too, and sometimes at rather high speeds, in all kinds of weather, from sub-freezing/snowy/icy conditions, pouring rain, hot even hot summertime/desert conditions, sometimes with blowing dust/sand and just normal/average conditions as well. What it gets is reasonable care: A bit of time to warmup (just enough time to allow secondary air injection pump to shut off) before driving off; gentle driving (no lugging, high RPMs) until engine has time to get fully up to temperature; a moment or two of idling to allow heat load to even out before shutting off engine; and 5000 mile oil/filter services. Early on I rejected that 15,000 mile oil/30,000 mile filter service schedule as being more marketing hooey than sound engine servicing. Engine got first oil/filter change at just 1000 to 2000 miles (can't remember exactly now) and then again at 5000 miles and every 5000 miles since. Broke engine in by the owners manual, with some mods. I kept RPMs below 4000 until 2000 miles and then after oil/filter change started increasing max. RPMs a bit at over time until 5000 mile oil change and then after that using all of the engine's RPM range. Car has received 2 coolant changes: Once when radiator replaced; and once more when I had water pump replaced. I don't suscribe to lifetime coolant nonsense either. I've had the tranny/diff (5-speed) fluid changed once and it is going to happen again, soon. Brake hydraulics, clutch cylinder hydraulics bled with power bleeder, once. Should have been done more than that, and I intend to do it again soon to try to make up for letting it go. Other things are taking care of none-engine related things, trying to avoid letting car get all rough and scroungy looking. Can't help rock chips and buttheads in parking lots letting their vehicle's door open into my car's sides (even though I almost always seek a parking spot away from the crowd it almost never fails when I return to car there's a vehicle parked on at least one side of my vehicle, sometimes a vehicle parked on both sides) I can keep car clean, waxed (well, sort of...) but when necessary I replace exterior pieces like the front air dams, rear wheel air deflectors, engine scoops, underbody plastic trays that over time suffer from wear and tear. Were I to buy a Carrera, I'd follow the same servicing and expect the engine to last and last and last, along with the rest of the car. Sincerely, Macster.

Macster, A local Boxster owner has over 180k on the car and has done the One Lap of America as well.

hi guys just leading on from the starter thread.... can anyone point me in the right direction for either the workshop manual extract for renwal of brakes or at least a diagramatic assembly. thank you

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Thank you for the excellent write-up. It is great to hear how reliable your 986 has been for you. I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind: 1.) What type of oil have you used(brand and viscosity)? I am sure others here would also be interested in this information. LOL 2.) How did you manage to get 180,000 miles of use on the original clutch? Best wishes on the next 180,000 miles.

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and I removed the vibration dampers (the things that stick on to the back of the pads) and have never replaced them. The 1st time -- when I changed just the pads -- I was prepared to if the brakes made too much noise or otherwise indicated the things were needed to install them and mark the job up to experience. I've changed the rotors and pads now several times (over 181,000 miles on car) and have never used them. The pads/brakes have never been noisy. (No track time though.) However, I was at the Livermore Porsche dealership -- oh it has been maybe over a month -- and spoke briefly with the shop foreman there and mentioned that I didn't use the vibration dampeners and he told me they should be used, replaced. I didn't have the time to ask him why. Upon thinking about this some, one possibility is that the pads move around more with these vibration pads missing and while any accelerated wear to the pads/rotors or even the pad backing plates can be corrected with new parts, the pad backing plates can wear the points where they 'seat' with the calipers. Additionally any movement of the pads can cause the retaining spring/clip to move about and the rod that holds this in place. While again the rod and the other parts are renewable when doing a brake job any wear of the mainly the holes through which the retaining spring clip rod fits into in the calipers is not renewable. Agreed it is a stretch I guess, but next time I do my Boxster's brakes I'm going to not only replace the pads/rotors (if necessary), and all the other brake hardware, but buy and install new vibration pads as well. I can understand for some one who tracks his car and changes pads for track usage would find these things a pain to deal with and leaving them off can make some sense. However, if the wear does occur.... at some point new calipers might be needed. 'course, being a track car accelerated wear/tear of not only the usual wear/tear items is to be expected but wear/tear of the more unusual items should be come as a surprise. Sincerely, Macster.

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off the shelf. Even arranged to supply my Porsche dealership's service department where I took the car for service the oil to save a few bucks. I will quickly note at the time I lived in the midwest and drove the car almost year round, from 100+ degs. F. temperatures in the desert southwest (no kidding) to near 0 degs. F. up north in the wilds of Wisc. and Mich. Round KC Mo way where I lived/worked for a couple of years was in between these extremes, but not by much. I've started engine after having it sit outside in ice storm overnight and with temperatures in the 'teens'. Car has been subjected to even lower temperaturs on other occasions. (Caught in big snow storm heading north out of Ft. Smith, ARK.; caught in snowstorm in Williams AZ.; ran into tail end of snow storm in Benson AZ.; caught in snow storm in St. Ignace MICH.) About a year into ownership Mobil 1 0w-40 became available and I switched to that. Come July 2003 found myself down in southern AZ (having driven from KC MO out to Eugene Or. and down CA and across into AZ over the span of may be a week) with ambient temperature in AZ at 116 degs. F. Intake air running 135+ degs. F. and coolant temperature a steady 226 degs. F for quite a span of miles and time. Could even hear the engine compartment fan running as I slowed down from speed to pull off for gas. Man it was hot! Anyhow, not a hiccup from the car, from the engine. I would think had the Mobil 1 0w-40 oil (or even Mobil 1 15w-50 oil before it) not been up to the task the engine would have shown its displeasure. I will mention that the car gets oil/filter services at 5000 miles, even when I'm on the road. (In fact that trip from KC Mo to OR and CA and AZ I stopped in at Bend OR. to have oil/filter changed and Porsche service department there declined. I had to wait until I got down to Sacramento CA and have it done there. Nice dealership in Sacramento.... Neillo I think is its name) Now had I driven across AZ in that heat with oil with 15,000 miles on it...Things might be different. For other Boxsters I don't know I've never driven any save an S loaner I had a couple of hours, but with my '02 2.7l engine I can give the engine some throttle, bringing revs up to over 1000 but not even to 1500 and then let out clutch smoothly and with minimal slippage and car moves off just real nice and smart. As the car picks up speed of course I give the engine more throttle. This results in as little slippage as possible with no stumbling or lurching from the car by trying to start out with engine revs too low. (Which is hard on the engine anyway.) 'course, you know I don't downshift to slow car when coming to a stop but do closed throttle coast down in gear and wait until revs drop down to around 1000 before shifting to next lower gear and then the last portion I'll use the brakes to slow car and bring it to a halt. When I downshift for passing or whatever I rev match as best I can. No red light jackrabbit starts. No burnouts, etc. Don't hold car on incline by slipping clutch either. At a stop I slip tranny into neutral and let clutch pedal out. I watch light out of corner of my eye and when I see my direction about to change to green I get tranny into 1st and am ready to go when light changes. Sincerely, Macster.

Having just crossed over from the air cooled world I can say that everyone takes those stupid stars and throws them away. Squeaks are more about poor install, not those stars on the back of the pad. I just sold a 1995 993 with 180,000 miles, original motor. It went on many long trips as a commuter car. Long hard runs is what the car is engineered to do, short runs or sitting in the garage is harmful to the car.

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but they're there for a reason. I would hate to advise someone to forgo using them only to have the brakes squeal. For me, as I touched upon, should the brakes have proved to be noisy I would have bit the bullet and installed the anti-vibration pads and chalked the trouble up to experience. As for using the car, I would prefer to drive the car and get whatever enjoyment/service I can get from the car vs. leaving it sit unused. I do not believe in saving miles for any second or subsequent owner. I do believe in taking good care of the car so should I want to or have to sell the car I can do so knowing the car received good care and would make someone a very fine automobile. I do not believe in giving a vehicle marginal service and driving a vehicle into the ground. Sincerely, Macster.