NEW X51 ROAD TEST?

im trying this again as the last post became about the X50 turbo option and then ireland and the BBC.....has anuone got a roadtest on the X51 motor option??? this is the motor package for the normally aspirated car not the turbo..or BBC..or ireland...

I agree, Jason. We want technical, not political darn it! -although they are right about Excellence.

The math I did would be about 0-62 MPH in 4.6-4.7 Seconds and I just know that Porsche says it boost HP to 345.

I have clocked mine with the Gtech at consistant 4.8 to 4.9 on the street. With warm tires on a real drag track with some rubber on the ground a 4.6 sounds very possible. The 0-60 is not where it is most impressive, its the second and third gear runs. The 0-120 is a full second faster than stock by PAG claims.

OK, here are the test numbers of Flat-6, all on 17" tires. On 18" you have to add time... About 1/2 sec per each number 100 to 200 kph (62 to 125 mph) 996 345HP 996 320HP 996 300HP 11.505 12.360 12.480 80 to 150 kph (50 to 94 mph) 996 345HP 996 320HP 996 300HP 6.608 6.582 6.893 from 80 to 120 kph (50 to 75 mph) 996 345HP 996 320HP 996 300HP 6th gear 9.049 8.499 9.942 5th gear 6.811 6.787 7.653 4th gear 5.801 5.495 6.109 3rd gear 4.363 4.116 4.752 The 345 hp test was done on a car with winter tires and outside temp of 8C The 320 hp test was done on a car with standrad tires and outside temp of 23C The 300 hp test was done on a car with standard tires and outside temp ranging between 5 and 10C Bottom line, not worth it for day to day driving since car is actually slower than the regular 320HP version (which Porsche acknowledges also - all of these were factory cars tested in Germany) BUT on the track, it's a totally different story with the X51 beating the standard car by 1 full second on the 0 to 1000 metres test and .1 seconds on 0 to 62. So, given your use, you may want it or not... If it's for the street, not needed. If it's a Sunday track car, seems like a great deal BUT imagine how much suspension you can buy for $10K and that's worth a whole lot more than 1 sec.... FWIW JM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by dbelleperc: <strong>The math I did would be about 0-62 MPH in 4.6-4.7 Seconds and I just know that Porsche says it boost HP to 345.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Flat 6's test shows 4.9 sec and 16.5 from 0 to 200kph (125 mph)

if you have driven the standard car and the x51 back to back you would see there is a huuugge difference in speed and sound. they feel and sound like 2 different cars...it is worth it more than you can imagine

Those numbers from flat-6 seem to be the most objective so far. Too bad the cars were not tested in the same conditions, with the only change being the x51 option. There were several other variables that were not the same, unfortunately. Despite that, with those numbers as well as from news releases from Porsche, I would agree with Jean-Marc's assesment. Not worth it for the day to day, significant improvement for the track. Since I seem to be using my car more and more on the track, I wish I was aware of the option when I ordered mine. But, again agreeing with Jean, I'm looking at suspension/tire/chassis improvements as value for money before I look at the X51 retrofit.

doesnt seem like a good test considering the car had winter tires and it came out slower....more power =slower? strange

Not so strange, really. There is more HP, but the same torque. Torque is what drives those acceleration numbers. The torque band of the X51, from what I remember, moves up the rpm range and broadens the peak, but loses some at the low range and stays at the same peak. It may seem strange that more HP=slower, it's not so strange if less low end torque=slower. At the track, where the rpm's are generally at 3k and up, the X51 would shine. On the street, where the rpms are generally less than 3k (or even idling!)for regular driving, not worth it and may even be detrimental. Again, this is just IMHO. It's as good as any, and could be as wrong as any.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Jason Jenkins: <strong>doesnt seem like a good test considering the car had winter tires and it came out slower....more power =slower? strange</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Look at what was tested: Flexibility = torque in one gear to move from speed A to B. That's real life performance and NOT race track performance where you are mostly at peak revs and therefore the X51 would always shine. They are 2 different cars. X51 is more like a Ferrari when you look at the torque band. Standard is in between that and a Jag... JM

all very interesting....my only experience is between my X51 and standard carrera 2...driving each you could hear and feel massive difference as was backed up by Gtek test driving it in toronto too. little around town drag racing of stock C2 showed X51 to be 2 car lengths ahead by half way thru 2nd gear and never behind in first. wish magazine would test them side by side.

X51 with snow tires in the cold, std 996 with street tires in the summer and the X51. Does not seem like a fair comparison. "Flat 6's test shows 4.9 sec and 16.5 from 0 to 200kph (125 mph)"... These are from PAG's press release, probably quite conservative. We can simplify this all... I just need someone with a 320 hp C2 in NY Metro and we'll meet at Englishtown and get some professionally timed results. I think they open in late March or April... any takers?

Here's the dyno for the kit 345Hp compared to the 320Hp. : <img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/996345Hp.jpg" alt=" - " />

Thats a factory spec. Example... I have a race motor in my boat. It is spec'd at 580 hp. Unlike PAG, the company that built it individually dynoes each motor to break it in and to tune it. The motor made 619 hp thats a full 7% higher. I am sure PAG rates their motors conservatively and I am sure there is a deviation from motor to motor. What we need is somone to actually get a 320 and a 345 on the dyno side by side and try to get a better comparison.

Why? Who cares? Man, let it go. You have a fantastic car and let's just leave it at that. JM

I think it would be wrong to let it go. There is so much misinformation and "my choice is better than yours" on these boards that I think a side by side comparison is necessary. Differences of opinion are OK, but when it's quantifiable let's remove the subjectivity. Porsche is not stupid and they know performance. I concur with Ed and Jason the X51 is "better" in all aspects than the regular C2, based upon my ownership experience. By way of qualification I've owned 11 Porsches, drive a GT2 for fun and commute in as X51 (bias declared). Let's get the test done and then we can all let it go... the GT3 will be here and we can try to argue (like the X50 owners versus the GT2) that the X51 is just as good.

It's better to let it go... everyone values things differently! I think most do believe that X51 is a faster car. I'd say 1 sec from 0to120 is a pretty accurate #; though some do say PAG is conservative about its number.. but hey, we're comparing cars from the same manufacture, being conservative could be on both car. Realistically, 1 second isnt a very big difference when driving till 120 miles from standing. The point is, to some ppl, spending $10G for that one sec could be worth it, but some others might find it not worth the money. To say it loses driveability, I doubt it will make very big difference, it might be slower when you're trying to accelerate at lower range RPM, but since the driver is goin' at low speed so who cares. If it was me and I had $10G lying around freely, I'd add on the option (only if I think 996 is a better looking car, otherwise, the extra money that was goin' to be spent would have all been saved in total to buy me a 993TT)

I think some people are freaked out about not having X-51,or like me,"should I spend $13k+ for it"? Well I did and it is worth every dime!I drove two stock ('02 and '03) Carreras and one'03 cab. before I ordered my X-51($92k with all options,$89k w/discount -did I get hosed? Who knows). NO comparison.I was so nervous because I thought I may be disappointed however I was overjoyed. It was much faster than stock 3.6 even though I haven't exceeded 4500 RPMs.I would love to see a side by side comparison.I can't wait until I break it in! Driveability? -Much EASIER to drive than my '01 coupe. This was the biggest suprise of all.I'm not sure why -I could guess I suppose.Clutch is better (easier),much more low end torque , I am amazed at how much more low end torque -maybe my car is a freak, I don't know. Anyway, stock 3.6 is a very fast car and if you don't feel comfortable spending $13k+ don't do it.

One more thing,I truly feel that PAG is B.S.'ing about X-51 numbers.Why? Who knows.That damn car will snap your neck HARD in 1st or 2nd if your not careful.Unfortunatly I am a crappy shifter and have had no driving courses,(I intend to fix that this spring),but you can't imagine the difference between stock and X-51 unless you drive each one.All my life I've wanted a REALLY fast car and I finally found one.

Exactly! That's what it seems like, so we need a quantitative comparison. If it doesn't prove out then we'll all sneak away. In Porsche $, it's worth the difference.

I know I already put in my 2 cents, but, here's another one . My neighbor has a red 2002 Z06. He can easily afford a Ferrari or Lamborghini if he felt so inclined. He thinks it is absolutely silly to spend that much money on a car, and he thinks I have the worst sense of value for car by buying the Porsche. Does it bother me? Do I explain to him why I think it's worth the money? Naah. I just get in the car and enjoy the drive. I'm just glad he enjoys his car as well as I enjoy mine. There's no need for the X51 to prove itself to non X51 car owners. There should be no need to prove it to X51 owners either. There's no need for being defensive. I bought mine without the X51, and glad I didn't spend for it. You bought yours with the X51, and are happier for it. 'Nuff said.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by blustem: <strong>One more thing,I truly feel that PAG is B.S.'ing about X-51 numbers.Why? Who knows.That damn car will snap your neck HARD in 1st or 2nd if your not careful.Unfortunatly I am a crappy shifter and have had no driving courses,(I intend to fix that this spring),but you can't imagine the difference between stock and X-51 unless you drive each one.All my life I've wanted a REALLY fast car and I finally found one.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have to agree. Having spent time in both, this car is MUCH faster than a 320 hp car.

Ed Newman wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have to agree. Having spent time in both, this car is MUCH faster than a 320 hp car. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The X51 is MUCH faster than a 320 hp car (emphasis added on MUCH)?? I don't know, Ed. What I believe is that you have simply assimilated to your car, understand its performance characteristics and, as a result, are able to extract all that the car is capable of. The fact that you are overjoyed with your X51's configuration may have contributed to your apparent revisionist history when recalling your "time spent in the 320 hp car". You see, if I take your theory to its ultimate conclusion then your X51 is MUCH slower than the new GT3, which is MUCH slower than the "normal" TT, which is MUCH slower than the X50 TT. All the while rendering my 02 C4S about as fast as my 01 Landcruiser - theoretically, of course, because I haven't had the occasion to test them back-to-back. I think we can all agree that published statistics suggest that the TRUE performance gulf between each of these machines, while discernable, is more modest than discussed in this post.

I am about to order a C4S and have spoken with 3 separate dealers about this option and received 3 different answers, each totally contradictory of the other...I have no idea as to what to expect. The discussion here would seem to be much more valuable than what I have been able to glean otherwise but I am still a bit confused. I am not a racer and am merely interested in seat of the pants impression...more interesting engine music and a "peakier" torque curve would work just fine for me. There was some mention about the sound and feel of the X 51 equipped car. Does this package include a different exhaust system? I was under the impression that the headers were modified but nothing was mentioned about the remainder of the exhaust. I had planned to add the Cargraphic cats and mufflers...any thoughts on this? Thanks for your thoughts. DAB.

I have the Porsche sport exhaust, and I like it a lot. Very different from stock, I can't comment on any other systems since I haven't heard them.