2.5L WRX Sti,,,the Poor mans 996 Carrera C4?

the new WRX has 2.5L flat -4 Boxer engine (Kinda Like a Porsche)Awd, driver definable center differential,new Praxis suspension system,brembos, 3,000lbs, 300 HP, 300 plus ft/lbs of torque, Average mid level japanese paint and interior materials but all for $35K....and easily bumped up to 350HP-370HP.. I think this car might be the ultimate Cheap Bastard's C4? what do you guys think?

Don't be fooled by the cool WRX turbo commericials:-) At $35K for a new car it's not a poor man's anything but at this price point I would go for the new Z.

ive sat and driven the new Z.....not too impressed with the quality,,,yet the G35 is put together very well. The Z is the same price but you get less HP and no AWD

At a Panoz Driving School Lapping day at Sebring I met a couple with a WRX Wagon which had been totally tricked out for the track. It had 350 HP, bigger brakes, better suspension, etc. They had the advantage of being able to carry their track tires in the wagon. We Porsche people have to trailer our cars or make arrangements with track support companies for driver ed events. The husband worked on the car and the wife drove it on the track. At the time I had an 02 BoxsterS and was just able to keep up with her. I have since switched to an 01 996 C4. I met up with the same couple at POC Winterfest at Sebring. They also had a friend with them driving his WRX sedan. I was able to pass both of them pretty easily with the C4. However, it occurred to me that the WRX is a pretty good alternative which is practical and highly trackable. Of course I would have to guess that their tricked out wagon might be pretty close in price to the BosxsterS and my used 996.

well, i have a Boxster S. I spent ALOT (thats all I will say) to get and extra 35 ponies out it without opening up the engine. Now with the Sti, you can get 50 to 70HP out of it for just $1,300 bucks and still havea very reliable engine.........thats value!

BTW, the WRX that on the track with you had the 2.0 Lts engine, stock makes 227Hp for about a grand you can bump it up to 260HP to 280HP. The Sti version that is coming out is entirely new, bigger brakes, bigger engine, stronger engine, new 6 speed , new suspension. Other than chassis and body, its practically a brand new car.

Robert: I concur that the WRX STI is a great value. However, I will also recommend to consider the Mitsubishi Evo VIII that is coming out this year. I think it is about 30k and will be awesome too. However, I heard from reviews that those 2 cars are really harsh and not suited for everyday use Sugi

i heard the opposite, The Evo doesnt compare to the new Sti. Also the New Sti gets the New Praxis air/ oil suspension made by Bridgestone. It has 3 settings, Touring, SPort and track. All are driver adjustable. Ive been talking to some Aussies that have had the Sti around for many years now and they all say that its bullit proof and rides pretty nice on their bumpy roads. The 2004 Sti leap frogs the US Mitsu Evo from what Ive read and heard. <a href="http://www.praxissystems.com/concept.asp" target="_blank">Praxis Suspension Web Page</a>

I think this be might a little off topic. It might be better to discuss rice burners in the lounge. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by RobertG: <strong>what do you guys think?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">

Not really off topic as Porsche helped design the lastes Subi engines and they are partly based on the M96 engine

OK, then I can start a thread on the Harley V-Rod? Cool. (In other words, yes, really off topic.) <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" />

oh dont be such a party pooper,,,,

Damn! I wasn't trying to spoil anybody's fun! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by RobertG: <strong>oh dont be such a party pooper,,,,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">

I own a Boxster S and a WRX Wagon. The WRX is quite fast but it feels loose, a little flimsy and the braking is no where near the Porsche. It is awesome in rain/snow and it is very practical. In short, the Porsche is a sportscar that you feel very comfortable driving at or near the limit, the subie can probably be driven very fast by a very good driver but I will not approach its limits because it doesn't feel as good. The fit/finish and build quality of the subie are clearly inferior to the Porsche as are the materials, it really feels like its about 1/2 the car the Boxster S is, it costs about half, so thats about right.

Well, I have learned this the hard way, but although a car may look good on paper after driving hard for a year or so a whole host of annoying and unexpected problems have a tendency to crop up. Like for example, the brakes are too small, they require constant maintenance, or the synchros are weak, the gears grind when you try to shift fast, or the LSD doesn't really work, it seems to open up in high G cornering as weight transfers, or the suspension has too much bump steer causing the car to be a handful in high speed bumpy corners, or the engine smokes in certain corners because oil leaks out through the PCV system. My ex S2000 suffered from all of these problems. So someone else buy the WRX, run it for a year, and report back your experiences. I have my money tied up in a new GT3. Hopefully it will work out better and I will have fewer problems to report.

yeah, but, guys. the Sti is all new. It has larger 12.3 inch brembos, new axles, new tranny. its a beefed up car compared to the last WRX

Good lord, do you sell Subarus? Or are you just trying to convince us we wasted money on our P-Cars! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> And you're still off topic! <img border="0" alt="[sleep]" title="" src="graemlins/sleep.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by RobertG: <strong>yeah, but, guys. the Sti is all new. It has larger 12.3 inch brembos, new axles, new tranny. its a beefed up car compared to the last WRX</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">

Isn't the topic for this tread " WRX Sti , Poor man's 996 Carrera C4 "??? Sounds very on topic to me.

no, I have a 00 Boxster S, A 69 911s, a 85 911 Turbo and I used to havea 64 356 Cab SC anda 00 996 C4 Millenium. IM very much a Porschephile. But I recently "discovered" the Sti for myself and I can help but see the similarities with a 00 996 C4 in terms of performance numbers

no, I have a 00 Boxster S, A 69 911s, a 85 911 Turbo and I used to havea 64 356 Cab SC anda 00 996 C4 Millenium. IM very much a Porschephile. But I recently "discovered" the Sti for myself and I can help but see the similarities with a 00 996 C4 in terms of performance numbers

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by MetalSolid: <strong>Isn't the topic for this tread " WRX Sti , Poor man's 996 Carrera C4 "??? Sounds very on topic to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Word. Patrick's getting annoying, and he has yet to add anything constructive to this post . The WRX STi should be a pretty quick puppy, don't even think about comparing it to the Lancer (which would be competition for the regular WRX rather than the STi). I say if you don't mind driving an Asian 4-door econobox turned hotrod the STi is your ticket. later, amir

Annoying? What's annoying to me is coming to the 996 forum and reading troll posts about which rice burning honda or subaru is the best. This forum is for discussing the 996. I come to this forum to get help with modifications, technical advice, etc. But if you guys want to discuss this, go ahead. I won't interrupt any more. And Amir, your post added alot! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by ZAMIRZ: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by MetalSolid: <strong>Isn't the topic for this tread " WRX Sti , Poor man's 996 Carrera C4 "??? Sounds very on topic to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Word. Patrick's getting annoying, and he has yet to add anything constructive to this post . The WRX STi should be a pretty quick puppy, don't even think about comparing it to the Lancer (which would be competition for the regular WRX rather than the STi). I say if you don't mind driving an Asian 4-door econobox turned hotrod the STi is your ticket. later, amir</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">

mds, Well said, I wish you'd let the guys on the Cayenne Crushing forum know your views. I'm with you all the way. If you want to experience the Subaru AWD in full race setup (300+HP), spend a few days at Rallye School Ireland. You'll beg to pay the extra for a Porsche. The best way to appreciate Porsche is to drive something else for a while.

Who cares its a Subaru at the end, nothing to even compare to even a Porsche Boxster/Boxster S let alone a C4. Porsche defines elegance and a different class all together not some 25k car that has a turbo.

STI is not bad for $35k but its no Porsche. Btw, its turbo is build by Mitsubishi.

The Sti is no match for the European version of the Lancer VII anyway which has more power (on the dyno around 320HP but 280Hp official due to Japanesse laws) and a more radical chasis-supension setup than the Sti. Neither my particular type of cars but the extra 8,000 Euros pricetag of the lancer VII would be worthwile if I wanted a cheap car to beat around the track and experiment with modding.

Hi, I'm a WRX owner currently and saw this thread pop-up on my daily Rennlist browsing session. There is some misinformation floating around about the STi. The turbo is not a Mitsu turbo, it's an IHI, probably the next VF series. The WRX is a nice platform to auto-x, and DE with and is a very capable performer with a few upgrades here or there. Considering you can get one for around 21K now, it one of the best bang-for-buck options out there. I had a 944S and my father has a 911 Carrera so I will have to agree that the brakes on the Subaru are nothing compared to the Porsche binders, but the STi will come equipped with Brembos to fix that problem. And the EVOVIII that we are getting in the US, while being an outstanding car, is watered-down with no AYC/ADC where as the STi we get here has all the goodies and an extra 1/2 litre to boot. I understand the slightly elitist attitude some Porsche owners have, the cars are probably the finest on the planet, but to dismiss a car simply because its not a Porsche is shortsighted. The STi or euro-spec EVO for that matter are track beasts, and I (hope) that future STi owners will get out on the track and put the car to the test. happy motoring

Can't really speak much btw. the comparison btw Evo VII and current version WRX (STI) but the Mitsubitsho EVO has consistently won the WRC for several years so that might speak for something ??..hehe... Spidey: yeah too bad the EVO VIII coming out here are watered-down...can u believe that the US version will have 5-spd when the rest of the world get the juiced up engine and 6-spd transmission...

Really The Mitu Won WRC? Hmmm, funny but The WRX is listed winning the WRC last year and the year before......the 2004 2.5L Sti is all new, it hasnt come out....SO there is no current version

I too have a 2002 WRX, I also have a '97 C4S; obviously the Porsche is the better car, but to dismiss the Scooby is foolish. In the WRX I find I'm faster than most Porsche drivers at the track or in the canyons. The '02 WRX has some weak points, like the brakes, sway-bars and stock tire/wheels, all of which are addressed on the '03 STi. Handling wise, the WRX allows you to do things you couldn't even imagine doing in a 993, although the Porsche handles with more precision and balance. In the canyons where some of the roads are pretty rough, the WRX can be more effective. The only problems I've had with the WRX was with the clutch that had to be replaced after 13k miles and the rate at which it would eat tires on 18" wheels. In contrast, the 993 has a new problem every month or so.

The US spec STi and the ROW STi will only differ in drivetrain, I think. The ROW version (right now only Japan) has the 2.0L Twin Scroll Turbo mated to the six-speed with DCCD. This setup puts up great numbers 276HP@6000 and 286ft/lbs@4400. The twin-scroll setup puts up 230ft/lbs by 2300rpm. I suspect they will keep that verion around for WRC homoligation purposes. I personally would rather have that setup than the 2.5, but I'd take either. Americans still like displacement and a company listened to its customers for once. Hopefully the back and forth between Mitsu and Subaru that has been happening for years in Japan will go on over here now. The result is better cars for all of us. Mitsu dominated the WRC for a few years but have had problems of late. Peugot is practially untouchable these days, Subaru's last championship came with the "old" body style GC8 STi and Richard Burns.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Patrick: <strong>Annoying? What's annoying to me is coming to the 996 forum and reading troll posts about which rice burning honda or subaru is the best. This forum is for discussing the 996. I come to this forum to get help with modifications, technical advice, etc. But if you guys want to discuss this, go ahead. I won't interrupt any more. And Amir, your post added alot! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">[/QB][/QUOTE] Oh quit your nagging, if it bothered you that much why didn't you say anything in the post by Cameron regarding the Honda S2000 that can smoke a 996TT? Just chill out and enjoy the discussion, and if you can't do that it's very simple: DON'T CLICK ON THE POST. later, amir <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

well its ALOT more that displacement that separates the 2004 Sti and the plain WRX. Things like a 6 speed tranny, Driver adjustable center differential (up to 65% in the rear bias), Forged pistons,rods, titanium lifters as opposed to the cast pistons,rods, Water squirters on the intercooler is included,new adjustable camber plates built in. Praxis suspension system with 3 driver adustable settings that raise and lower the car. Also it contains that magnetic fluid that changes viscosity instantly when the computer senses changes in the pavement. Corvette and Caddies will use this next year (This is break out stuff ,kids)

Spidey: Yeah..those 2 are real nice cars and I would love to see the *REAL* version out here. My fav. all time is the EVO 6...think that looks the best. BTW, I heard that the regular WRX has problems with the manual transmission? Is that true? I believe that will be resolved in the STI version. I have no doubt that the STI will smoke alot of cars on the track but I think it will be too much of a compromise to make it a daily driver. Edmunds had a comparision btw the EVO 7 and the regular WRX...even tho the EVO came out tops in all performance category, the editors will still pick the WRX for daily driving ...solution?? WRX STI / EVO for weekend track events and a 996 for daily driving...hahaha.. Sugi

I think the WRX is a Poor Man's 964 C4..... It can't compare to a 996. It can't.

With used prices for 996s falling the way they have been, soon a 996 will be a poor man's 964...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by MetalSolid: <strong>With used prices for 996s falling the way they have been, soon a 996 will be a poor man's 964...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> talking about the 993 The years, kilometers, and price of pieces/fix problems are getting much higher$$$. This's giving to much "weight" to the 993. so who knows the 993 would be the poor's man 964! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> funny but the 996 prices here are more than stable. <img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/996_roockGT3.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/996_roockGT3.1.jpg" alt=" - " />

Here too Andreas, in Spain, the 996 is the car with least depreciation in the entire market. I guess for european drivers, a good sportcar product is less infuenced by fashions, trends and availability, so its resale value is more directly related to the real value and reliabily of the product itself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Swing: <strong>Spidey: Yeah..those 2 are real nice cars and I would love to see the *REAL* version out here. My fav. all time is the EVO 6...think that looks the best. BTW, I heard that the regular WRX has problems with the manual transmission? Is that true? I believe that will be resolved in the STI version. I have no doubt that the STI will smoke alot of cars on the track but I think it will be too much of a compromise to make it a daily driver. Edmunds had a comparision btw the EVO 7 and the regular WRX...even tho the EVO came out tops in all performance category, the editors will still pick the WRX for daily driving ...solution?? WRX STI / EVO for weekend track events and a 996 for daily driving...hahaha.. Sugi</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The manual tranny problems mostly come from the drag-racing commmunity. The tranny's have been failing (mostly) when people with higher HP cars run on sticky tracks. The 6-speed is supposedly very robust.

996 owners talking about depreciation is truly ironic. particularly when that logic is applied one of porsche's largest market, the United States.