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YOUR RESEARCHPSM or No PSM???
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(Note that after I wrote this I used the same comment to create a new post: 993 v.
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most effective safety feature implemented since abs
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Active yaw control is now mandatory in all US cars, and is probably the most effective safety feature implemented since ABS.
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Would you use PSM as a make-or-break reason to purchase a car?
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I found a 2004 C2 I am really interesting in buying but it doesn't have PSM. Should that be a deal breaker?
This is my first P-car and I am a little nervous about not having PSM.
Thoughts?
Thx for helping out a newbie.
Justin
I guess it depends on your skills.
I consider myself a fairly experienced driver and I leave the PSM on when driving in wet/slippery conditions
On dry roads, PSM is not necessarily a must if you keep the weight distribution in mind.
Need some more info:
- Experienced driver ? (track days/driving schools)
- Usage environment ? (summer only/warm climate or all year in northern)
In short, if your a good driver in warm climate probably no need. If your a newer driver in snowy conditions you will want it.
If you have experience in snow and good tires you will be all right so long as you value self preservation
Not very experienced porsche driver. No track days or driving schools under my belt. Will drive mostly on dry roads and occasionally on a wet road. Never plan to drive it in the snow.
I found the PSM made me pay attention more the car........made me a better (smoother) driver. When the PSM goes on it usually means the car is not happy with what it is feeling. I learned this via track days. If you are feeling PSM kick in on the street you are driving over your head.
I am a decent, experienced driver and I generally leave it on. It saved my *** on a rainy WV curve once. Amazing what it does when it really violently intervenes, like a giant hand throwing you back on course.
PSM: Porsche Save Me!
JDwodrich,
The simple answer is, if you are nervous about it, and don't have the confidence to enjoy the rear engine layout and horsepower / torque of the car, you should get it (PSM.)
If you are confident in your performance car driving skills with the experience to back it up, but are just a little nervous because of all the scary stories about the rear engine bias, I'd say don't worry about it and PSM should NOT be a deal killer. I was in the same boat - many decades of performance car experience, never driven a 911. When I finally did, I realized it does require a different driving style (mostly a matter of timing with brake, throttle application, and managing weight transfers) but is more than manageable.
The longer answer is -
You are asking a question that is near and dear to my heart. I am very very conflicted on the subject.
As a matter of principle, I HATE any sort of electronic nannies; I'm very analogue in my preferences and believe in the Almighty and the laws of physics FAR MORE than the programming skills of Man, no matter how well backed by engineering those lines of code are. Firmware, software, hardware all make me nervous when it comes to "balancing" the laws of physics. (no, I'm not a technical luddite and appreciate what electronics and the virtual world have done to make life more convenient. Just keep it out of my fun cars.)
I also believe that people learn and mature through making mistakes and feeling pain from those mistakes. Do stupid or inconsiderate things, suffer no consequences, you don't learn and go on to make even worse, more stupid mistakes, until it kills you. And knowing that it might kill you - the fear of serious injury, pain, and / or death, is a serious and valuable sanity check.
Somehow, though, the electronic nannies, the more comprehensive they get, the more stupidity and carelessness and sheer arrogance / insolence they allow. And people being people, they keep either letting the boundaries slip, or they push and push, and when they inevitably slip over the line, the screw up BIG, rather than in small and survivable steps.
That being said, the performance available in the really high performance models - the 600+ hp 500+ lb-ft monsters - almost require some form of traction control to put all that power down to the driven wheels, and for it to be even the least bit usable by the majority of drivers out there.
So if you are respectful of the car and take the time to learn how it feels (especially how it feels different than the typical front engine rear drive; front engine front drive layouts) as well as take the time and make the effort to gently and safely probe the boundaries, not having PSM is a minor concern.
And you'll get to know your car, and have lots of fun, in the process.
Just one humble old school Purist's point of view...
(corrected typo - PASM and PSM are two different systems. the question and answer was about PSM, I accidentally typed PASM)
PASM is the suspension management. PSM is the stability management. They are two very different things.
The PSM is just there to [do its best to] save your bacon if things go horribly wrong... specifically if the car is about to go into an oversteer/understeer situation on a curve at speed. Which, on the street, would really only be in adverse conditions where the grip is so compromised you're not aware of it (e.g. snow or possibly rain). If you're getting the PSM to engage on dry streets with any regularity, it will just be a matter of time before you exceed the laws of physics and kill some one or ball up your car.
On the track, keeping the PSM on can be a tool to learn where that edge of control is... Novice and intermediate drivers who continually have the PSM come on fall into my category above, and it will just be a matter of time before they wad the car up. Advanced drivers will either turn the PSM off, because they've learned that level of control, or leave it on, but control the car to the point where the PSM doesn't need to interfere.
This is a lot like ABS brakes. When you have to make an emergency maneuver (braking and turning) in the wet, ABS helps prevent wheel lockup. On the track, you learn how the threshold brake - brake at the point just before the ABS engages.
Would you use PSM as a make-or-break reason to purchase a car? That's a personal decision, but I'd have to think that if you're reasonably sane, level headed, safe and somewhat law-abiding, you'll never have it come on.
My 2004 40th AE has it and honestly PSM seems to hinder more than help.
I mean if I am in 1st or 2nd and on the throttle I sort of think my intent is to slide the rear
Electronic stability control (PSM is Porsche's version) can absolutely save your *** someday. It can detect excessive yaw and perform a trick that even the best driver can not... Brake each wheel independently.
A highly skilled driver might be able to avoid the pre-spin to begin with, or counter steer his/her way out of it, but not as effectively as a good yaw control system.
Active yaw control is now mandatory in all US cars, and is probably the most effective safety feature implemented since ABS.
Kinda sorta agree... The PSM does what it thinks you should be doing. If your a good enough driver the car can be asked to do things that PSM does not like...but you, me anyway...can still be in control even if PSM disagrees.
That's a good point. Overall, I'm a fan of PSM. I'm happy that I have it, especially for a daily driver in a mountain state that sees lots of snow. However, the PSM system on the 996 is intrusive. It reacts quickly and aggressively when it is called into action. It can be partially disabled by pressing the button on the dash or fully disable by pulling the fuse if you want to do so for track days.
My $.02, if you are the majority of casual drivers and cruise often more than race, the psm wouldn't hurt and can actually save you.
I find psm type systems to match up better with the heavier mk2 and c4s cars but feel it dilutes some of the raw nature of the mk1 c2 models. I would rather spin and learn from it than have a computer try to guess on what I wanna do when it comes to a mk1 c2.
We're lucky at least the 996 can actually be "turned off" unlike the Mercedes.
If you like the car otherwise, get it and don't worry about PSM. My car wasn't optioned with PSM and I've never missed it. Unless modified, 996s tend toward understeer which is very manageable. Most of your driving is in the dry and on dry roads you have to drive at unsafe speeds to get the car so far out of shape that psm would have to save you. When it rains find a parking lot and learn how the car performs in the wet. Or go to a wet weather autocross (what I did - it was a blast !). You'll be a better driver for it. Kill the nannies!
Everyone's opinions are gonna be different and I don't necessarily disagree with you but the mk1's felt more raw to me which is what I prefer personally. It's the same reason why people like Miata's, not necessarily because they're powerful but because of the driving feel.
You make a good point. Interestingly I recently had the opportunity to drive a 50th Anniversary 991, a nice 993, and my car all in the same day. To be completely honest... I would of course take the 991.
But I enjoyed driving my car more. The 993 is just getting old, ergonomically and in terms of power. The 991 is a really, really awesome Buick. It feels big and very fast. The 996 straddles both worlds. It is far more visceral in feel than the 991 and yet more luxurious and modern than the 993. Just my $.02, but I ended the day in love with my own car all over again.
(Note that after I wrote this I used the same comment to create a new post: 993 v. 991 v. 996)
You're such a lucky dog. Not too many of us would ever get that kind of chance. It just seems like more and more later cars(and I'm not just talking about Porsche) become bloated and more comfortable feeling and ultimately become less "true" sports car-like and more GT(grand touring) style touring machines. Please don't tell me also that you've also experienced a m�nage � trois, that would be two dreams a lot of us wouldn't be able to experience in our lifetimes(without paying at least).
I've owned one 996.2 (2003) and four 996.1, including my current 2000. The 996.2 feels heavier, less nimble, and more isolated. It definitely has more torque down low, but also doesn't feel as rev-happy as the 3.4. Personally I find the 996.1 to be a more involving car to drive, though I prefer the 996.2 looks inside and out.
