993 v. 991 v. 996

Interestingly I recently had the opportunity to drive a 991, a nice 993, and my own car all in the same day. To be completely honest... I would of course take the 991. Duh. C'mon! But that said, I enjoyed driving my car the most. Honestly. It came as sort of a surprise. You want to love the 993; it's the 'last of the air-cooled 911s' for Christ's sake! But it is just getting old, both ergonomically and in terms of power. The 991 is a really, really awesome Buick. It feels very big and very fast and a little over the top. The Millenium Falcon of sports cars. Just too much for this cowboy. The 996 sort of straddles both worlds. It is far more visceral in feel than the 991, and yet more luxurious and modern than the 993. The 996 is actually a hair lighter than the 993, and with my FD Motorsports exhaust sounds just as good or even better than the 993. Just my $0.02, but I ended the day in love with my own car all over again. So, is it just possible that the 996/997 Carreras, despite all of their oft-discussed (particulalry on this board) drawbacks, hit a features/power/performance sweet spot that just may not happen again?

Earlier this year, I was looking for a "911" that would be my wife's semi-daily driver. I test drove an '86 Carrera, a '92 Targa (964), a '91 Cab (964), and the car I ended up with, an '01 C4 Cab. After driving all four I knew that she would appreciate the 996 the most though I might have chosen the Targa if it were to be "my car" and not a daily driver. I do enjoy the 996 and find myself driving it more than I drive my Cayman S and more than I drove my past Porsches (944s of various vintages). I think the 996 is the best modern Porsche for the $ and is, as RPM stated above, a sweet spot of Porsche ownership right now.

I would tend to agree. The 993 is a beautiful car but does still carry with it some of the baggage of Porsches past, the platform and layout because increasingly stressed the more modern stuff they added. Ever look at how convoluted an air-cooled 911 A/C system is? That's because they added it to a car with lineage back to 1963, when the Germans would have laughed at the concept of adding A/C to a sports car. It's no wonder the damn thing never worked well. Not to mention the cost, you can buy two nice 996s for the price of an average 993 ($40k+). As for the 991, I'm sure they are hugely capable but I don't think I could ever own one. The 996/997 appears to be the last 911 that is friendly to a DIY mechanic. The 991 requires removal of many items, including the rear bumper cover, simply to replace the air filter. No thanks..... While I like my 2000 C2, I think a 997 would be about perfect for me. I prefer the more conventional 911 styling inside and out, plenty of amenities without being isolated like the 991 has been criticized for, reliable, fun to drive. After a few more years of depreciation they'll even be cheap.

I can't get over how BIG the newer cars are getting. I went to a PCA event last Saturday and parked next to a new Boxster S. The car seems enormous...

I agree with you totally Ralph. The description of the 991 as a Buick sums it up - big, heavy and fat. It's not the way Porsches are supposed to be. Like many other modern cars it needs to go on a diet and shed some of the junk they've added onto it in the last few years. I still love my 996 and see absolutely no reason to trade it in, only to spend a ton of money and get little more than padding in return.

Great thread - cross post to the 993 section and watch the wailing and arm thrashing begin!!

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I think I agree. But to be fair to Porsche... Every new 911 has been greeted with the same concerns: too big, too refined, no longer 'pure.' 356 guys hated the first 911 back in "64!

Modern cars are all slowly becoming oversized versions of Iphones. At the Phoenix Auto show two weeks ago almost every car I sat in had more buttons, functions, and screens than I could bother to count. I require AC/heater, sound insulation, good engine, good transmission, audio system and comfortable seats in my car. Everything else is pointless to the primary function of the car- transportation. My first car weighed 2,000LB; it had no power options, no A/C, no tach, no ABS, no EPS, drum brakes on the rear, manual windows, no power steering, and manual transmission. It drove just fine and never had an idiot light come on or had any problems at all. Cars after 2005+ are far too technologically overloaded for my tastes. 996 and cars up to the 2005 occupy a happy medium of technology vs mechanicals.

Yeah, my first RX-7 ('81) had no A/C. My choice. Life is too complex. TC

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Agree on the 993, Agree on the 991, but cannot agree on the 996. The 996 lacks the looks, no curves, lacks the interior finish, lacks the speed. So the 993 has the looks not so much speed, the 991 has lots of speed, great interiors, but yes it is bigger, the 996 is also bigger then the 993, but does not have the interior finish quality of either the 991 or 993 and it does not have the speed of the 991. In that dilemma I mould go for the 997, then you have a good compromise.

To me, 997.2 is the optimal. 9A1 engine, easy to DIY (simialar to 996), classic 911 look. Interior a notch above 996. They demand a good premiuim though Also, I think the 991 has the engine start-stop tech, which I hate.

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I think you are on target. If I ever move on from the 996 the 997.2 will probably be the next one. Augustomf: No curves? You must be looking at a different car than I am. My favorite line on my 996.2 is the bulge over the rear fender as it joins with the plunging roof line. Gorgeous! And what do you mean no speed? 320 hp, 0-60 in 5.0, and a top speed of 177 isn't fast enough for you? I don't disagree on the interior in terms of design and materials (lots of cost cutting in the 996/986 - which oh by the way, saved Porsche from certain bankrupcy), but with full leather is it plenty swank for a sports car.

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Agreed. A 997TT would be perfect.

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Oh yea, if money is no object

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Agree 100% How can a car that shares the same essential shape have no curves? I think someone is lacking objectivity. How can a car that does 0-60 in less than 5 seconds and a top speed of 177 be slow? Again, I think someone is really trying to be dramatically silly. Interior design is simpler, but I like that. I agree that modern cars have too many functions and buttons. My M3 is a computer on wheels. When I bought it I spend a week messing with the settings and haven't touched them since - couldn't they just have made the car come from the factory like that and stop complicating things? Simple is good. Simple gets the job done. Simple is less expensive. Simple doesn't brake as readily. Yeah, I'll keep my simple 996 that accelerates like a demon and has a top speed way faster than 90% of Porsche drivers will ever go.

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Actually you got me looking at 997.1 TTs. They actually cost almost the same as 997.2 Carrera S and are LESS expensive than 997 GTS. Interesting.

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Uh huh. I have been looking at 997.2's and 997.1TT's. Drove a few over the last month or so. Getting pretty attractive right about now. $40-$50k asking.

I think the 997.2 is the best. I love the 993, but it and the 991 are just too hard to work on. 12 spark plugs and 2 oil filters on the 993. That's crazy.

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No way, $40-50k??? Maybe with 100k miles on them?

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My ideal would be: 991 front + 997.2 GTS body + Turbo (or 9A1 N/A) engine + RWD with locking diff

I just drove a colleague's 993 the other day, and while I appreciate it for what it is, the 996 is better in a lot of ways, although the interior on the 993 is definitely a touch nicer (albeit mine does not have full leather). The only thing I liked more on the 993 was the gearing ratio on first gear seemed to be a bit different, and made the first gear a bit more mild and usable. I have also driven a buddies 2011 or 2012 997 GTS, and that car is amazing. For me, the 997.2 is the best 911 that Porsche has made in a very long time. Great looks, slightly more modern interior, and great engine. To me, it seems that Porsche has made the 991 a GT car, which is not what it started out as. They were always nimble and small, and while it may be nimble, it is no longer considered a "small" car. Not to say it's not an amazing piece of machinery, but it's getting away from some of the things I like about the heritage. So, if/when I ever get another one, I would get a 997.2, but agree with a lot of what has been said about the 996, it's a GREAT machine at an unbelievable price. DS

I like the old school lights, pre 993. I like the open bumpers pre 964. I like the 996.2 lights, love the new latest Boxster and Cayman lights. I just don't like the 991 at all. Too early I guess. Didn't like the 997 but it did grow on my, well just the narrow body in black really does look sleek. I hate the new direction that Porsche is going, seems like they are trying to make all the models look Panamerish butt ugly and big with all luxury and no sense of racing pedigree. My next new Porsche will be a Macan but my next 911 will be a 964 or 930. In fact I'd probably choose that new Boxster over the 991 or new Cayman though I won't because it just too under powered. I love my 996's, there agile, feel everything in the seat or through the steering wheel. Love the window openers on the center console, love the plain center console, love the sleek wide body, love the diy ease to maintain anything on it. They are great cars a drivers car. Those new cars have lost touch with what they were made for.

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I was at the local dealer today picking up some stuff and was thinking the exact same thing! Now that I've had my 99 a couple of months I guess I've gotten used to it's proportions and all of the new Boxsters and 991s did look huge. They did have a 50 year 991 model which was pretty cool (MSRP 157K)! As my car cost less then the interior upgrades on it alone I walked away feeling kind of smug.

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Drove a 08 997 C2 Cab. 35k miles. Asking $49K and a 2006 TT with 70k. Same price.

IMO, 993 is the connoisseurs choice, the 996 the driver's choice, and the 991 being the technical 'best' to date...prefer 996 over 997...

Let's not forget value... Cars are not investments for me, they are to enjoy without permantently consuming a ridiculous amount of cash. $25-$30K will buy you a 996.2 that looks like it rolled off the showroom floor. A sports car that is also a super competent daily driver and a hoot on track days. And I might even change the bearings in it once in a while. That same money is first-month depreciation on a 991!

I have a 964, 993 and 986. All great. Makes me want to get more. They all provide a different experience.

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2008 997 i think is 997.1?

nice posts,just every body sharing opinions,not bashing and not discussing motors blowing up etc! of course this could turn into that.lets hope not!

While I am not thrilled with the 991, the new Cayman is stunning. The design is simply gorgeous. Seems to me that the Carrera has purposefully moved up (in terms luxury, features, size, and obviously performance), allowing the Cayman to meet the niche previously filled by the 911. I liked the first generation Cayman, but I'll keep my 996 over one. However, maybe a used 981 is the Porsche of my future - in Amaranth Red Metallic of course.

991 is fast, luxurious., detatched. Beautiful car. Fit and finish best ever. I've owned 2 996. Very clinical cars but excellent steering feel, quick. It was a safe path for me. Good car for money. 993 if the aircool'd cars need to be explained you wouldn't understand. Straight line speed non exciting, weighted controls, air cool noise, intimate greenhouse, small. 997.2 S is impressive. Awesome steering feel, excellent torque, very easy to drive. Drove new Cayman S. Seriously quick, refined but feels like a proper sports car. Balance unreal. A modern high end sports car, bargain. The steering feel nowhere near delicate as gt3. Lastly, if you want a modern 911 there is no substitute for GT3. Visceral raw, Motorsport derived. A throw back car on steroids. The way it drives, always hungry. The car just WANTs more and more. Drive them all. Buy what you like. Own multiple. Enjoy.

Of course the 996 is best. That's what we all drive :-). Another way to look at this is the presence of electronic systems. I think German carmakers started crossing a line around 2006-2008, making cars overcomplicated and over-reliant on electronics. Too many things to break, too many fuses. Too much digital and not enough analog. I'm thrilled my Porsche doesn't have electronic steering, or parking brake, etc. My 2008 BMW X5 has too much of this stuff, especially compared to the 2001 X5 it replaced. Now you kids get the hell off my lawn.

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Hahaha quote of the week

About the Curves, maybe I expressed myself badly. The 996 lacks the hips of the 993, it had a straigh line on the side panels. That was done to improve Cx and top speed. At the same time it lost the looks. Just look the 996 prices, high prices = high demand. The 996 price issue is not because of the IMS failure alone, it is also because the looks are not as appealling as other years, and that is not me talking, it's the market. As far as when I mentioned speed, I was trying to say that even if someone says that the 991 is not as appealling as the 993 at least the 991 has a much greater performance than the 993, the 996 does not have better looks than the 993 nor is it much faster. So between a 996, a 993, and a 991 the 996 is the clear last placed candidate. I have no intention to hurt the feelings of any 996 owner, but it is not a 911 I would like to own. Of the earlier cars I think the 997.1tt is the best bang for the buck. Check the pics below. hips and no hips.

I have driven a couple of 993s and enjoyed each one; however, they did not have the speed or control that I feel my 996 has . Driving my 996 is effortless and smooth, feels solid and comfortable. I believe the 993 is over rated, but I do agree with Augustomf in so far as the looks of the 993. I really love the look of those wide rear fenders ( love them big butts and I can't deny it ) I do disagree with his opinion of the 996s performance as opposed to the 993. As for the 997 and the 991, I have not yet had an opportunity to drive them so I will refrain from comment

My last 911 was an '88 Carrera Targa. Built 3.2 with a MAF conversion, heavy t-bars/sways/Bilsteins, Big Red/Black brakes, HRE wheels, etc. FANTASTIC car for pure experience. But not a good fit to serve as a usable every day type car, and in a lot of ways that describes the difference between the air and water cooled cars. The air cooled cars win on pure experience, they represent mechanical driving distilled down to its purest form. The water cooled cars provide much (but not all) of the experience, but brought in a lot of creature comforts previously unheard of in 911s. With each new generation the pendulum has swung further in this direction, making the 911 more of a GT than sports car. If you believe the magazines, the Cayman/Boxster are the Porsche sports cars today. Given the chance at my choice of Porsche I would be in a 996 GT3, the closest I will ever get to a 2.7 RS but with working A/C.

The real truth is that each model will have its appeal ! If I did not have kids, and the new Boxster and Cayman had the same engine options as the 991 I would be driving a Cayman or Boxster in a heartbeat. As far as the 993, it is a beautiful car but I agree it has become a little overrated. A 1996 993S cannot be in the same ballpark price as a 997.1 TT, it makes no sense, again IMO. In the end the love is in the eye of the beholder and as the cliche goes every foot has a shoe that will fit.

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While I have always liked the 993, the 996 looks more "Ferrari" and less "Beetle."

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Do us a favor...look up the effects of supply and demand on the market price of an item. Then look up the production numbers for the 993 and the 996... BTW, we are here to help if you have any questions.

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Agree on the supply part. And again, each person has his/hers favorite car choice. I actually should not have even commented on this thread, threads like this one that compare different 911 types will never be productive because it ignites passions from all sides. I only did comment because it started with a statement I could not agreed with, sparking a passion that I should have controlled.

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+1

Augustomf: Don't sweat it. But I do find that sometimes you have to walk away from a thread for a while and let the discussion evolve, rather than go back and forth with a couple of people. We 996 people can be a prickly bunch, but we drive fast!

I came from a 993 C2S to my current 996TT. The interior in the 996 is far superior to the 993 IMHO. I have speculated without any proof whatsoever that the 996 interior was really designed for the 993's overall face lift but got nixed with the many cutbacks that were going on to stay afloat and out of bankruptcy. The 996 is just a much more comfortable cabin for me. Granted the 993's all have hips but the above photos appear to be "S" models that have the bigger turbo hips. Compare them to the 996 C4S or Turbo hips and tell me about the straight sides. As much as I like the big hips, I've always thought the front end of the 993 was sorta daffy duck looking and not an improvement from the 964. But then we have the 996 head lights. My ideal keeper would be an '09TT or GT2. Still not feeling the 991. YMMV

the number of blatantly inaccurate, asinine, or ridiculously biased comments in this thread make me laugh...well that and make me sad about how stupid some people are.

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Are your other 7,000+ post equally helpful and polite?

How can you,say no hips....i dont get it. More proportionate perhaps.

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are yours as whiny?

Hyper 911 This is a 996 GT3 no hips, vs. regular 993, hips. Taking picture from behind shows ***, and both had big behinds. The 996 did not even have stone guards!!!! It did not need them because there was not violin shape where the front wheels could throw stuff on the rear fenders. The problem is the lack of violin shape on the 996, I will grand you the that the C4S had some hip, but the regular 996 had none. Again, useless argument on which one is more appealing, thats taste, but the lack of hip issue on the 996 is just fact.