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YOUR RESEARCHPPI Questions
Leading reported evidence
Inspect (also make sure
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The seller knew I was serious because I had just paid $250 to have his car inspected (also make sure that the person doing the PPI cuts open the oil filter to inspect for any debris).
Leading evidence: 'Inspect (also make sure' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'test ride/drive will not be completed' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check debris an option during a ppi' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Second car, I had a PPI done, only some minor issues found, but used the PPI findings during price negotiation to get a better price.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
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Suspected cause
I mean if the engine is shedding scary bits of metal likely the test ride/drive will not be completed before the engine shells its innards out on the pavement.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
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Suggestion · Original poster
Is removing someones oil filter to check for debris an option during a PPI.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion · Original poster
That being said if the car is running right and all fluids are clean, I agree it may be overkill.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The seller knew I was serious because I had just paid $250 to have his car inspected (also make sure that the person doing the PPI cuts open the oil filter to inspect for any debris).
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The seller knew I was serious because I had just paid $250 to have his car inspected (also make sure that the person doing the PPI cuts open the oil filter to inspect for any debris).
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I would frankly be surprised if an engine so inspected didn't show signs or marks of from the piston/ring traveling up and down the cylinder, which they do sometimes thousands of times per minute when the engine is operating at any speed above idle.
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Suggestion
The order was found car that fit my requirements, had an in-depth discussion with the seller to see if I noticed any red flags in his care or maintenance of the vehicle and to get more info on it, decided it was worth moving forward and ordered a PPI (I went on RL and inquired where to get a PPI done in Phoenix, AZ) and got a dozen or so responses, and went with the one that was recommended the most often, arranged for it to be taken there (the seller dropped it off there, I paid for the PPI, which was about $250 if memory serves me..probably on the high end, but worth it...I've had them done on cars locally for about $100-150).
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Suggestion
The PPI should be done *after* the car is driven for 15+ miles by the seller with the buyer as a passenger -- test ride -- then driven another 15+ miles by the potential buyer -- test drive.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
test ride/drive will not be completed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Identified cause
1
Suspected cause
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Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that suspect a cause
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
I mean if the engine is shedding scary bits of metal likely the test ride/drive will not be completed before the engine shells its innards out on the pavement.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
18 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261027T000231Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I am hunting for a 996 C4S and been finding some nice ones out of my state. I have a few questions regarding negotiations, inspections, etc.
What is the normal order of things if I can't physically see the vehicle. I am extremely qualified to do a body inspection myself. Obviously my first choice is to see it myself but I am realizing that may not be possible.
Question 1-Do I negotiate my price first, then if we come to a mutual price have it written up, leave a small credit card deposit then request the PPI?
Question 2-Is there a list of qualified inspectors on this site or somewhere else that could do a body and mechanical inspection?
Question 3-What does a typical PPI cost on average?
Thanks in advance for everyone's help
Mark
I bought my 996 sight unseen and had a PPI done on it.
The order was found car that fit my requirements, had an in-depth discussion with the seller to see if I noticed any red flags in his care or maintenance of the vehicle and to get more info on it, decided it was worth moving forward and ordered a PPI (I went on RL and inquired where to get a PPI done in Phoenix, AZ) and got a dozen or so responses, and went with the one that was recommended the most often, arranged for it to be taken there (the seller dropped it off there, I paid for the PPI, which was about $250 if memory serves me..probably on the high end, but worth it...I've had them done on cars locally for about $100-150). Car passed PPI with a few items that were not material, but that I still used to negotiate the price afterward. The seller knew I was serious because I had just paid $250 to have his car inspected (also make sure that the person doing the PPI cuts open the oil filter to inspect for any debris). After which, we agreed upon a price, I financed it through PenFed, the seller got me what I needed from a documentation standpoint, and I had it shipped to Florida. Don't recall who I used (I could look it up) but everything worked out pretty well.
Also, if there is a car that is local to someone on here, usually you can get a fellow RL member to drive to a nearby car for sale and put eyes on it for you before deciding whether a PPI is worth it or not...we call it RennFax.
Happy Hunting,
DS
^+1. Do exactly what he said. Except, if you can, take a family member and do a fly out - drive home. It will be a trip you remember the rest of your life and a great way to start your ownership experience. And, make an effort to stop at a minimum of one auto museum on the trip home: visit
www.naam.museum
for a list.
Another thing - I remember worrying that a seller might sell a car out from underneath me while/after I paid money for a PPI. Truth is, the likelihood of that happening is minor. Better to take your time, not get in a rush, make sure it's the right car. It is much easier/quicker to buy one of these than to sell one, especially if the one you just bought turns out to be the "wrong" one.
I agree with the previous comments. One thing to add to that is that the PPI ultimately represents another opportunity to negotiate. If your PPI turns up anything that needs to be repaired, you can ask the seller to make the repairs, ask the seller to drop the price or negotiate something else. When I bought my C4S, the PPI turned up quite a few fairly minor things that added up to roughly $3K in repairs. I negotiated with the seller, and ultimately he paid for some of the repairs and I paid for some of them. I was okay with this because I bought the car for a very good price.
Good comments. On one car, I negotiated a price first, and said I would buy it assuming it passed PPI with no significant issues. There were just some minor issues, seller's price was firm, so I bought it.
Second car, I had a PPI done, only some minor issues found, but used the PPI findings during price negotiation to get a better price.
In both cases, I spent about $250 at independent Porsche service shops.
Okay so lets talk PPI. Is removing someones oil filter to check for debris an option during a PPI. Seems like this would be a good idea if the oil wasn't just done or the potential PPI before me did the same thing.
Seriously, I would have the spark plugs pulled and the cylinder walls bore scoped as a part of the PPI before buying any water cooled Porsche without the mezger engine.
Yeah, easy to say... But finding a shop that is willing to spend the time to do that when all they are making is labor would be a neat trick. Same with the oil filter. What you are really saying there is you want a PPI + an oil change. Your PPI is now $350+. If you are not there what do you want - pictures of every inch of the oil filter or a video? Shop may balk at something that just takes too much time and effort for the price. I'm not saying don't ask, but these elements are not part of most shop's standard PPI. If the shop is out of town and does not know you, this could be tricky to get done in such a way that you feel comfortable with.
Another key I find, and I have bought two Porsches out of state, is to ensure that the PPI shop is not the one the owner usually uses. Just too much chance of 1) shop defensively examining a car they service, and 2) the owner and shop having too cozy a relationship and you will never know how that influences what they find.
I know it would cost extra. on Top of the PPI. If a car passes the no ticking sound at idle I would spend the money extra on it and replace the plugs while it was out. If the car ticks I wouldn't even bother with the PPI and just find another car.
I had 2 seperate companies do it on 2 PPI's I had done (oil filter, not scope). One I passed on, the other car I bought. Both companies charged me for a new oil filter and a quart of oil, so about $30-$50 extra. IMO, it was worth it.
I'm thinking what Mark is getting at is that cutting open the oil filter as part of the PPI becomes useless if a prior potential purchaser did the same thing during a previous PPI.
I'm assuming the shop performing the PPI would be able to tell the filter was recently replaced by a quick visual examination upon removal.
Comes down to finding the right shop to perform the PPI when you are making a long distance sight unseen purchase....that's a scary thing for sure when spending big coin on a 10 years old car.
Hopefully when Mark as well as myself find cars we are serious about you guys can lend a hand selecting s shop to perform the PPI if the cars are located out of our respective states.
Slightly off topic but if you are not near the car you should request a renfax before a PPI. I almost spent $400 on a PPI in Chicago but the dealership where I was going to have it done called me before they touched it and told me not to bother paying them because the car was a disaster.
What's a renfax? It is when you ask a member here to go check out a car for you. Just post a thread asking for help. I'd be thrilled to have an excuse to go drive a random car.
The PPI should be done *after* the car is driven for 15+ miles by the seller with the buyer as a passenger -- test ride -- then driven another 15+ miles by the potential buyer -- test drive.
This 30 mile usage will give the filter time to collect any scary bits. I mean if the engine is shedding scary bits of metal likely the test ride/drive will not be completed before the engine shells its innards out on the pavement.
This driving also gives the engine and any other areas of the car to manifest leak sign.
Were I selling one of my cars, not sure I'd agree to a spark plug removal and bore scoping. For one thing I would not want this job done just anywhere. I would trust it to my local dealer and its senior techs, the ones that service the vehicle.
I would not want the old plugs, once removed, reused so new plugs would be called for and I'm not footing that bill out of my pocket.
Then what can you really see with a scope?
I would frankly be surprised if an engine so inspected didn't show signs or marks of from the piston/ring traveling up and down the cylinder, which they do sometimes thousands of times per minute when the engine is operating at any speed above idle.
No way one can measure the bore and get an idea of its topology or geometry. No way one can feel the "scoring" to see if it is superficial or the cylinder wall really is scored.
If the engine is "quiet", if the DME doesn't detect any misfires (the CEL remains dark) or other errors, if the engine runs well, exhibits normal behavior in a variety of usage situations during the test ride and after during the test drive, bore scoping is just crazy overkill.
Good suggestions on putting some miles on. Not sure I agree with you theory on bore scoping, done it many of times to diagnose engines, plenty to be seen, like a cracked cylinder wall. That being said if the car is running right and all fluids are clean, I agree it may be overkill.
So I still didn't get a qualified person to do the PPI. Anyone in Maryland, I may try to schedule something on a day I can head down there a do everything in the same day.
Mark, I would start a specific thread titled something like "RennFax in Wherever, MD" and see what you get there. I would also start a thread titled "Need PPI suggestions in Wherever, MD" if it moves past RennFax phase. That will get you a lot more views from people in or around the area specifically.
GL,
DS
