Tip-tronic Vs. Manual

Pretty boring questions but I have a my 03 C2 on order with Tiptronic. I know manual is better but is manual worth having in the city (London).Is there anybody here that bought a manual, lives in a congested city and wishes they got a tiptronic? Do you really loose a lot of performance with tiptronic?

Article in Pano April 2002 Dave Murray at Road Atlanta comparing two TTs only .62 seconds faster in the stick - 1:39.03 vs 1:39.65. Slalom speeds are about the same -67.86 mph in tipS and 67.78 in the stick. Dave Murray, "If I were going to race that car, I'd have a manual. The Turbo makes so much power that driving an automatic isn't really a handicap. In fact if I could have only one Turbo, it would be the tiptronic S." Though to me, a Porsche with a tip is kind of like sex w/a condom.

<img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

More analogies: "like dropping a couple of ice cubes on a glass of good wine" Its not only the slight difference in performance, its actually the difference in pleasure of driving, driver involvement, character... overall enjoiment of sporty driving (which is what Porsche is all about to me) that an automatic doesn�t give you.

.....And you guys have driven exactly how many miles on a TIP? I suspect Keyvan was looking for a INFORMED opinion.........

.....and how exactly is Porsche's Tiptronic different to the other torque-converter automatic transmisions in terms of "pleasure of driving, driver involvement, character... overall enjoiment of sporty driving"?....... We are not even talking about a sequential gearbox such as the Ferrari's/Aston martin/Maseratti/Alfa Romeo Selespeed's Magneto-Marelli Sequential or BMW's SMG II. We are talking about a slow, power robbing, heavy, un-involving, 5 speed, good old torque-converter automatic trasmition on a 996. Thats why they come standard on Merc's and Jags but you wont find it on a F360 or Lambo.

there is no way you will be able to exploit the performance of a 996 porsche in everyday city driving....so it should not be an issue tip vs stick. Tip is a definite creature comfort with the bonus that you can focus more on stop/start/turn and less on revs/right gear/feathering clutch. I'm on my 2nd tip , and of course I've also got air con +electric windows + sat nav and all those other goodies that add weight or soak up power...but its so nice to keep the stress levels down ! Just one word of advice, the premium you pay new for tip disappears when you sell, so secondhand tip can offer better value if you are buying,also parking in London will soon leave its scars, bodywise, another case for considering secondhand.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I'd have to agree with you there, the Tip is clearly a better option if you drive 100% of the time on congested city traffic. But... what is the point of buying a 996 in this case? its like buying a Cab in Syberia. A Luxury-Sport or luxury-sedan would be an even better choice in that case.

hey Carlos, Keyvan already wrote he knew the stick was better, he just wanted some feedback about loss of performance plus other people's experience in congested city conditions ! One man's Porsche (tip) may be another man's poison, but still better than driving an auto Merc or BMW...... Keyvan, you've made a rational choice in going for 996 tiptronic,but if its your money at risk then I recommend a factory visit complete with session at Weissach test track with a porsche jockey just to be content that 996tip can ( and does)perform. If you want petrolhead excitement for same outlay go secondhand 993 turbo or get a 964RS as a second car and a modest auto merc or bmw as a first car......

Yeah I figured I should try them both out...it's just that I know one day I'm going to be at a red light and an M3 is going to pull up next to me . With Tip i know i'll be at an automatic disadvantage espically seeing that an M3 is only Manual or SMG. I've been driving for the last 4 years in Boston on left side changing gears with my right hand and while I don't mind driving on the left side of the road in London it just feels really weird changing gears with my left hand. I guess the only solution is to get a McLaren F1 so i can sit in the middle and change gears with my right hand...

I think carlos would aggree with me that your best option is a GSXR1000. final. \\W// 996C299

Waz, <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> that would definately show the M3 at the stoplight...0-60 in 2.8secs <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> As a matter of fact, I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to see if I can get my hands on the new 2003 GSX-R1000 and trade my 2002 model in He should be able to take orders since this week now(4Kg lighter, +4HP, new MotoGP derived chasis, stronger brakes, 32bit CPU, complete titanium exhaust... the 2002 model was already the fastest thing out on the strees and in the championships but you can never get enough <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

I lived in London for 10 years and spent every working day schlepping for an hour each way across Battersea, or Wandsworth or Hammersmith bridges, driving a collection of stick shift cars. There wasn't a day when I did not wish I had an automatic...I now live in Chicago and have just ordered a C4S with tip. Not surprisingly the Moldy Figs have howled in protest, but unless you do this kind of driving everyday you're not in a position to comment or advise. Yes stick is nicer when you have the right kind of roads, but if you posed the question as "What configuration of 996 will allow me to get the most enjoyment out of it everyday, when my commute involves slow city driving?" the chances are that the smart people would suggest you order your car with Tip. What you miss will be more than made up by the fact that you get to enjoy your Porsche more of the time you drive it, rather than on a few specific occasions. That seems a lot more positive than suggesting driving Tip is like stuffing a condom full of chilled red wine up a monkey's ***. Don't think that suggestion would help you enjoy your commute in London everyday...but I could be wrong. Get the Tip, learn how to drive it on the track, then sit in traffic and smirk at all those people who clutch-pump their way through the commute, knowing that you have one of the most enjoyable cars to drive on the planet, regardless of road conditions. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Keyvan: <strong>Pretty boring questions but I have a my 03 C2 on order with Tiptronic. I know manual is better but is manual worth having in the city (London).Is there anybody here that bought a manual, lives in a congested city and wishes they got a tiptronic? Do you really loose a lot of performance with tiptronic?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">

Makes you think for a while: 'How does God feel?' \\W//

If all your driving is commuting to work and back in congested city traffic then what does it matter if its a 996 or an Merc SL. Are they going to drive different under those conditions? But there is also people who are forced to commute in city traffic and not only use their car as a means of transport but also enjoy driving so they also take time out to enjoy the car by finding winding contry roads or going to DE events, and for some people thats when the manual shift compensates for the manual shifting in their commute. BTW call me a purist but I don't find manual shifting in city traffic to be an ancient form of chineese torture anyway. So I guess it all comes up to personal preference : A) If you enjoy sporty driving in your spare time enough to bear a manual in your commute then get the manual. B) If you just use your 996 as a means of transport from home to work and back the get a Tip and "smirk at all those people who clutch-pump their way through the commute", just don't look to close as you will see some of them smirking back at you as they think of the fun that they are going to have in the weekend with their car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Both preferences equally valid, just find whats best for you. Mine personally; I bought a 996 to be able to enjoy a mountain road, autobahn type highway or DE event, besides it also works great as a means of transport <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . I had an automatic sportcar once, and I regreted it every single day until I sold the car.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Le Chef: <strong>driving Tip is like stuffing a condom full of chilled red wine up a monkey's ***. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> You said that, not us. I posted that Dave Murray said he'd prefer a Turbo tip over a six speed as a street car. His times at Road Atlanta also show that the tip is not as much of a disadvantage as one might think. I've read that a Turbo tip with a novice driver actually yields BETTER track times; not sure about NA P96s. I agree w/Carlos, if commuting in heavy traffic is ALL Keyvan is going to do w/his P-car, why even get one? IMHO it's not the shifting that's torture in the P-car in heavy traffic, it's the driving slow. If I'm just going to be out in heavy city traffic all day I drive the Rover. The old 911s were much more difficult to shift and the shifting was torture in traffic, but the six speed tranny in the 996 is a delight. (keep in mind there is a SIX speed tip in the Cayenne) I didn't mean my previous post to sound like a knock on tips. Don from Cape Cod is one of the biggest Porsche enthusiasts on the planet and his current P-car is a tip. I don't think anyone thinks any lesser of him for it. To each his own. Get what you want, what you think you'd enjoy the most. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

I have one one stick and one tip. I enjoy them both. I hated driving the stick in the city. The tip is a far better transmission than those of you who have never driven one can know. Unless you track your car on a REGULAR basis, the tip equiped car will out-perform you every time. Those with big egos and mouths to match (yet no relevant experience), flame on all you want. Bravado is just transparent BS..........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> the tip equiped car will out-perform you every time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thats a first: the Tip is actually a "Performance Upgrade" such as the M030 or X51! maybe you are faster with a "slow, power robbing, heavy, un-involving, 5-speed" torque-converter that does the shiffting for you, but not necessarily for the rest of the C2/C4 drivers. Now really, its advantage is obvious in terms of convenience/confort/ease of use/etc. but performance is being irrational. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Those with big egos and mouths to match (yet no relevant experience), flame on all you want. Bravado is just transparent BS.......... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">This statement makes me wonder why I bodered to answer such an argumented post in the first place, but anyway, chillout Gretch, we are just having a friendly exchange of opinions here, nobody is flamming, relax (talking about easily bruised ego's). It all depends what your personal preference and usage of the car is and that each will end up happy with their choice. I've just expressed my personal prefference and arguments which is what Keyvan wanted from us <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

I fail to see why a tiptronic can't, under some circumstances, be seen as a performance improvement. It depends how good a driver you are with a manual. And I have to say that anyone who hasn't driven a tiptronic on a steady basis really can't give an informed opinion. How can you truthfully say how good or bad a tiptronic is w/o ever having driven one? As time goes by I find myself more and more sick of the Porsche "purists" who have decided that they know (from God I presume) what is and isn't the correct type of Porsche. If you want to spout the usual rubbish then please continue, but if you want to be able to make an informed opinion then how about doing a field try first? But seeing as how I've seen these same discussions for the last two years I'm sure my message will fall on deaf ears.

Having driven a stick my whole life I opted for a tip when I take delivery in May of a c4s. I now have a bad back and now live in L.A. Driving a porsche is an experience that everyone should share so do whats more comfortable for you

for city driving--try out the merc c32 amg--speedtronic is much nicer than tiptronic and you save $30k! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> please no flames <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> this is a constuctive suggestion that will allow him to get a used boxter with a stick for weekends in the cotswolds! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Keyvan, welcome to London <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> A few boarders seem to get hot under the collar about this issue - we all try to justify our decisions I suppose. But, for what its worth, I have driven through London traffic virtually every day for 40 years. For the last 30 I have driven automatics. But when I finally got to order a Porsche I went for the 6 speed despite it being my daily driver. IMHO its all about involvement and connection with the car. And OK it can be tiring on occasions but I sure as hell make up for it at the weekend! Listen, whatever you choose, a Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche is............ <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

Alex_95_cab My point exactly, not withstanding the patronizing, passive agressive, apology from the bigmouths here. You guys should try a little bit of intellectual honesty rather than the "manhood baiting" bull$sit.

Gretch, You obviously have a problem taking in opinions that differ from your own. I haven�t seen "patronizing, passive agressive, apology from the bigmouths here" and "manhood baiting" from anyone. You are taking this too personnally for what ever reason. So far the posts have been very respectful and lets keep it this way without resorting to these pejorative remarks in the absence of arguments. Accept that there can be differnt preferences than your own that they are equally valid, and sharing them with others shouldn't feel threatening to you. I will repeat it one more time. The reason why most 996 drivers opt for a manual transmition is because of the driver involvement and pleasure it provides to them over the automatic such as coordinating the shifting with the braking/gas and steering in negotiating a turn, downshifting to make a pass, upshifting from a start, etc. So you can see its not solely a matter of performance and paper figures at all. The question is: Are YOU willing to give all that up for a more confortable commute? For some people yes, for most NO period. Just make sure you know what your are giving up so you make the best choice for you, and Keyvan has decided to try both trans and decide for himself, which is the smartest thig to do. There is no need to try the Tip to be able to have an opinion over this matter because in relation to the involvement, conection with the car, etc ALL sportcar torque-converters are the same independent of the power of the engine or speed of the shift. Not so in terms of pure performance in which a TT Tip can be extremly fast,but performance is not the point. Most still derive more pleasure from driving a 996 C2/C4 manual than a 996 TT even though they may be slower. I haven't tried especifically Porsche's torque-converted Tip but there is a reason, and its because in all these years that the 996 came out I haven't come across a Tip over here yet! probably because there is a slight different mentality/preference in relation to driving (anyone who has cruised in the autobanh vs. a US highway will know what I'm talking about for example), and manual shifting is considered more an integral part of the pleasure of driving (even my wife preffers the manual and she does more driving in city traffic than I do!) for which the 996 is designed for as opposed to the purpose of a Jag or a Merc which come automatic standard for this reason. Ignacio had a great idea, which would be my second choice after a manual: get a 347HP speedshift C-class or better yet a M3 SMG II which is a fast and more confortable and practical for commute and get a secondhand 986 for the non-commute driving which can give just a much driving pleasure as a 996. Now if you don't do any non-commute driving thats a different story... BTW I lived in London in my first 2 years of college (loved it!) and traffic wasn't all that bad back then ('91-92),it was the left hand driving that almost got me killed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Carlos, you're comments are well-thought. Even though you haven't tried a tip (which I personally think is the ONLY way someone can make a wholly unbiased opinion) atleast you're making some logical comments. But there definitely are others in previous messages on this thread, and other threads over the last few years who HAVE made idiotic statements. I'm sick of the "if you want an automatic get an XXX car". Some people can't/don't want to drive a manual and STILL want to drive a Porsche. They DON'T want to drive a Mercedes, BMW etc .... Why are people so dense that they can't understand this simple fact. If someone is taking the time to come onto a board such as Rennlist then they are showing a definite interest in Porsches and should be treated with respect for the decisions they make (be-it 993 over 996, 996 over 993, tiptronic vs. manual or any of the other personal decisions people seem to get flamed over on these boards. <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

I entirely agree Alex, but understand that those idiotic statements about manual-tip, C2-C4, 996-993, coupe-cab, 17"-18" etc. go both ways. If we just keep to expressing our opinions with constructive argumentation and without disrespecting other's, this will be much more productive. Now, why don't you want to drive a Merc or BMW? are your saying people who buy them are stupid? you feel superior beacuse you drive a Porsche?...JUST KIDDING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (couln't help being sarcastic about it but this is just what we are reffering to )

On this subject Carlos, you make a lot of noise That has no a basis in credibility, that is the point. You write well and that reflects intelligence, so perhaps you just suffer from the desease of youth. That your comments about the tip have no credibility is true, (when expressed by Alex in a polite way or in the abrupt way I express it). Try some intellectual honesty when you shoot your mouth off, because no amount of back peddeling or obfuscation, after the fact, increases the credibility of an uninformed opinion.

Gretch, you blow off my arguments as uncredible though I have yet to read any arguments at all from you on the matter. All you have done is critizised the people who have posted a different opinion than yours in the absence of arguments (credible or not credible). Believe me I have no interest in being dis-honest in my opinion and offered my arguments in which I based it. Realize I'm not trying to convince you and just because it doesn't go your way doesn't make them uncredible. But if my "credibility" doesn't suit you, you have Porsche AG's which choose to make their models manuals as standard as opposed to cheaper Mercedez Benz or Jaguar models, or take the credibility of the mayority of Porsche buyers who also want their Porsche's to be manual. Surely you don't think they are also being intellectually dishonest and you are more credible than they. Just accept that there can be a different prefference or taste (which is the mayority's) thats not necesarily wrong. Now, is it really worth getting all "abrupt" and personal about it anyway with a fellow P-geek? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> BTW do you have anything against Merc or BMW drivers also? because if you do... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Down boys - jeeez. Be good now, ya hear? 996 Tips ROCK! I was a hair away from buying one last month. I drove a 2001 996 Arctic/blk tip on a whim, to merely take that car off of my "interested" list, and was pleasantly surprised. The car was fast, fun, easy to drive in the city, better for my bad back, great looking, non-wimpy, cool - it had it all! I loved the shifters on the wheel - so sweet. I'm not the greatest manual driver of all time, and I found the tip served me well. I drove an 1988 911 coupe for 5 years before this and had wanted something easier to drive, and quite honestly, something a bit LESS involving for around town, which is 95% of my usage. When I got back from the test drive, I called my wife and told her I HAD to have this car even though it was wayyyy over our budget. They wanted $61900 firm (5700 mi-loaded). I was only allowed $52500 by her <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> . I would highly recommend the 996 tip. I ended up getting a 59k mi, incredible shape, 96 C4S instead because it was only $40,500 and I honestly didn't love the looks of the 2001. I liked the looks, but didn't LOVE the looks. For that kind of money, I needed to LOVE the looks. The slab sides on it did nothing for me (flamesuit on). My next car will probably be a 2004 Turbo tip or 2004 C4S tip 10 years from now when they're "cheap", as I'll be older and feebler and my back will be probably alot worse (I'll be 52 y.o). I have to wait 10 years as I promised my wife I'll keep my 96 for that long. That was our deal. I had to sign an agreement with her! I promised to be a good boy and not obsess about cars anymore, as I finally bought one. Alright, I've been cheating already by looking at used 911 ads, but I know I have to wait 9 years and 11 months to actually buy one! It's an obsession! Hey, it's better than alcoholism and drug addiction. The tip - Drive it, you'll like it. Steve - another happy used Porsche customer visiting from the 993 board. It's a slow news day over there today. <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

Carlos makes sense, but he's not correct. I have an 02ttX50 and a tip Boxster. I've had a C2Cab tip. And, I have lap times of Derek Bell in my tip and in an identical C2 manual. There are times a tip is quicker by the stop watch, but the manual feels quicker. The tip is quicker when the driver is less than expert (most of us), when there are lots of downshifts-especially into first, and when ther is an increasing radius turn in whic the tip can shift up but the manual shift triggers oversteer. The tip "learns" what you are doing better than other torque converter boxes, and if you let it know you're driving aggressively by suddenly depressing the throttle, or hard braking with significant corner loading, it will change dramatically. Among the most obvious changes are automatic downshifting under braking and multi-gear downshifts upon acceleration. I've posted on this before. In a tight course set up at Blackhawk Farms Raceway, Derek Bell was quickest of 21 cars in my C2 Tip. I was second quickest. Another tip was 3rd quickest. The key was a very tight first gear corner leading onto the longest straight. The tip was clearly better than anything else on that course. In an autocross, I'd take the tip any day. Hope that helps. AS

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh The sweet sound of FACTS, and a very economical use of words to boot. I am a fan, Alexander Stemer. I have nothing but admiration for Mercedes and BMW. This is because they actually make an effort to provide a value proposition......as opposed to empty words of bravado. I make no argument about which transmission experience is better, as I have both a stick and a tip and find them both to be unique and thoroughly enjoyable. My point is, if you don't have any basis in fact to put forth an opinion then..........don't.....

Alexander, your post makes sense too but my point is not wether a Tip can be faster or not which either way is marginal anyway (that depends on the place and the driver, in my neck of the woods the Tip would be 90% of the time slower driver factor aside, this doesn't mean the Tip is a bad automatic). But my point is rather, the effect on the pleasure you derive from driving your P-car fast from having a torque-converter doing the shifting for you. So it depends on whether how much that affects each of us personally. For me, I can't think of tackilng a mountain road without a manual, for others it may be too unconfortable in their ordinary driving to be worthwhile. Maybe when I get older and Porsche launches a secuential gearbox I'll switch sides (no added weight over the manual, no power loss, faster shifting, etc. thats definately faster than a manual in ALL situations AND for everyone, though still not as fun) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> For your situation, usage of the car, etc. the Tip may be better, and for me the manual is better. I'm just expressing why its better for me. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> "I have nothing but admiration for Mercedes and BMW. This is because they actually make an effort to provide a value proposition......as opposed to empty words of bravado." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That was sarcasm Gretch, I was just joking. I didn't actually think you had anything against BMW-Merc. I have not driven a Porsche Tip but have driven other sportcar automatics and in terms of involvement and pleasure of driving, they ALL do the same thing: change gears automatically. I'm not questioning wether a Tip is a good automatic or not (Porsche engeeners are the best so I would think their Tip is top notch) for that I would have to try one, but I don't have to try one to know that it doen's have a clutch for you to change gears manually. Thats my point, changing gears manually or not.

FWIW, the TipS is a lot of fun in its own way for people who do not drive at the car's limit. For the purist nothing can beat a 6spd...at least for now. Resale will probably be lower on a TipS unless you can sell to a person who's wife needs the auto.

Ah, for me, nothing brings more satisfaction driving than heel & toe braking while shifting into first or second from 80mph for that beautiful 180� corner... Porsche, gotta love it.

Beautifully put, Don.

Oh, Oh, that is RIIIIIIGHT.............I should have mentioned that I actually bought my tip, INTENTIONALLY.... So I suppose having actually paid for one shows even more commitment than just having merely driven one...... AND.....yes I knew the resale value would be less.. OR...Don, you could just give it to your wife (if she, like mine, PREFERS the tip). This has been great fun, let's lay again sometime, huh?

Carlos from Spain, Point made and accepted. In the US we have a few circumstances where the tip is preferred. Our speed-limited interstates and crowded urban streets can be more enjoyable with the tip. Here in Indiana, we have no mountains. I like the feel of the power in my 6speed X50, especially when I'm driving alone. When I'm with my wife, I'll put the top down and take the tip. Since it makes her feel better, ultimately it makes me feel better. AS

There is no refuting your argumentation either Enjoying the power of a TTX50? I would too, add a sport suspension kit and thats my overall favorite car-combo Porsche sells. Maybe one day... BTW if there is one thing I remenber from driving in the U.S. (my other college years) is those laser guns the police use, radar was easier to avoid, but those lasers caught me everytime

My wife's A4 has the same tip that's in the 996, shifters on the steering wheel, etc. I drive it weekly. It's not the same, there's a delay, no rev matching, heel-toe, etc. The six speed in the 996 is a bit different then a 1989 928. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

ob, your comment about the A4 tip is interesting. We have the 2.7 tt with the tip in a 2000 A6, but it does not have the shifting paddels. I am surprised to hear they came on the A4 (but not very surprised, as I never really looked into it). The "tip" as it is in the A6 2.7tt is nowhere near the precision instrument that resides in my 2000 C4. Maybe the difference is the electronics? Can you point to a reference that confirms they are the "same"? No doubt the 6 speed in a 996 has a different feel than a 5 speed in a 928. Tis the reason I have no opinion to offer (negative or in favor of) the 6 speed 996.

WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Last time I checked this post there were 10 replies. So that was a nice read i just had. Has anybody read the description and functions of the tip-tronic transmision on the porsche website? I realize that there is an element of advertising in it but still pretty impressive '...Gearshifts take around 0.2 seconds to complete...' Check this link out: <a href="http://www2.uk.porsche.com/english/gbr/911/c2/transmission/tiptronic.htm" target="_blank">Porsche 911 TipTronic Transmission</a>

With the exception of the last sentence (i have no experience with a 6 speed 996), I would say it is a pretty accurate description of the functionality. I experience one of the features where leaving a toll gate under heavy throttle there is a 75 degree right hand uphill sweep that requires you back off the throttle. Normally you would expect an automatic to up shift as soon as you back off....the tip does not do that, but stays in the gear it was in under heavy load. the stability of the car (especially a C4) under those conditions is quite a pleasant surprise. There are 4 or 5 other things this tranny does that have been totally unique experiences to me and make the car a blast to drive. One other one: it down shifts under heavy breaking, by itself. friggin amazing experience....especially when coupled with the PSM.........

<a href="http://autozine.kyul.net/911/911_9.htm" target="_blank">http://autozine.kyul.net/911/911_9.htm</a> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/gkurka2001/CarTech/tech_gear.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/gkurka2001/CarTech/tech_gear.htm</a>

Rob, thanks for the reference. It seems to indicate audi licensed the tiptronic, but does not reference the Tiptronic S. You did say that your (99.5, how is that different from a 99 or 2000)2.8 A4 has shifting paddels on the steering wheel though, right? They did not come on the 2000 A6 2.7 liter twinturbo. I'm gonna go look up the Audi web site and see what I am missing here...Any illumination you can shed will be welcome.

<a href="http://www.audi.com/com/en/company/company_perspective/technology/tiptronic/tiptronic.jsp" target="_blank">http://www.audi.com/com/en/company/company_perspective/technology/tiptronic/tiptronic.jsp</a> The audi site does not reference shifting points on the steering wheel, just that you "nudge" the shifter to change gears......

however, the new 6 speed tiptronic has it as an option in the A6 ans A8 <a href="http://www.audi.com/jsp/crossfeatures/lexicon/lexiconDetails.jsp?lexiconId=499588&domainId=1&languageId=4&lexiconChar= t" target="_blank">http://www.audi.com/jsp/crossfeatures/lexicon/lexiconDetails.jsp?lexiconId=499588&domainId=1&languageId=4&lexiconChar= t</a> I am interested to know if it was a special order in "99.5" model year A4.....

hey Keyvan, are you still reading these posts ? Carlos- who has not owned a tip- has given us the most posts,13, mostly prompted by Gretch - who does own a tip! We also had some insight into tip not being a performance handicap as demonstrated by fast drivers on circuits and factory testers at Weissach. The torque converter ( slush pump ) does soak up some HP...however the electronics change gear quicker than any human can. Also, you can override the auto by manual selection, which is where actual experience of driving tip can count. For example, the factory acceleration figures for tip standing start are for auto mode which by default starts in 2nd gear. However if you manually select 1st in tip before starting off then floor it , tip auto changes up at redline in 1st and stays in 2nd till redline at which point you are (a) well past UK street legal speeds and (b) probably well ahead of a manual in a drag race unless that guy is very good.... FYI, I mainly drive 996 5spdtip, and for fun drive a 964RS (LHD). The RS has no traction control, no power assisted steering, manual 5 speed box ,limited slip diff and lightweight flywheel plus engine upgraded to 300bhp. Its probably as dynamic and involving as a non-turbo 911 can get in terms of demanding driver skill and attention but if you can only have 1 Porsche and have to do traffic miles then...996 tip got to be it. See you around in London some time !

Sorry, Oldtimer ANY torque-converter still doesn�t do it no matter how "miraculous" it is, some of us are still waiting for a secuential gearbox with 6 gears, no added weight, no loss of power and ****fting under 0,1 secs in order to consider it on a 996. Still wouln'd be as involving as a manual but it would certainly become a performance upgrade like it is on a F360 F1 or E-46 M3 SMG II. Probably in the 997 due to popular demand since like I said whether you like it or not, most 996 owners preffer the manual, unlike other cars in which a secuential is offered that ends up selling more than the manual (i.e F360 & M3). Let me tell you waht a Tip would do for me: 1. I drive a lot on the highway (european), driving fast to the limit and I have to shift constantly between 5 and 6 and sometimes 4 gear, and just the fact that it has only 5 wide spaced gears would kill me performance wise. 2. I didn't buy a 996 for doing boring straight line drag races with rice rockets, so don't care much for "suposedly" faster 0-60 times. 3. In my time off I tackle winding mountain roads, etc in which part of the pleasure of the experience is derived from manual shifing. As Don said "the TipS is a lot of fun in its own way for people who do not drive at the car's limit. For the purist nothing can beat a 6spd...at least for now"

Not a special order, sport package. Audi did a "facelift" to the A4 in 99.5. Don't ask me why they didn't wait until 2000. <img src="http://members.rennlist.com/robinwa/A4int.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" />

Off topic Rob, but that is a very nice steering wheel. Difference between the A4 and the A6 is that the A4 is a sport sedan and the A6 is ......not a sport sedan..... Thanks for having the persistance to support your points......

"As Don said "the TipS is a lot of fun in its own way for people who do not drive at the car's limit. For the purist nothing can beat a 6spd...at least for now" There you go again Carlos. If you had replaced "purist" with "me" I would agree with you. You still can't seem to get it through your head that a 6 speed manual does not make a purist. Also have you spoken to a tip owner who HAS driven their car at the limit? And if not how do you know that they DON'T enjoy their car while driving at the limit? When it comes down to it you feel that YOU'RE opinion is the right one and nothing is going to change it.

I'm sorry Alex but you fall prey to your own argument: YOUR opinion is not the ABSOULTE RIGHT one either. You did't get it, what I'm saying is that there is not one RIGHT answer, the Tip may be right for you according to your preferences, but will you please allow the manual to be right for me according to mine? PD1: in the general concensus about what is reffered to "purist", manual is more in line with the concept than a torque-converter automatic trasmition, as is RWD than AWD 996 for example or air-cooled vs water-cooled (mind you I chose an AWD & water-cooled 911 as my prefferd choice). PD2: Please do not quote things I didn't say: who says Tip drivers don't enjoy their car when driving at the limit? generally manuals are know to be MORE enjoyable (not the ONLY enjoyable) than and auto-trans (which ARE enjoyable too) due to the driver involvement in manual shifting due to the fact tha automatic trasmisions reduce the amount of interaction driver-car since you can select the gear but you can�t select how to change the gear.

alex_95_cab, Give up trying to teach this jerk manners.....I did.

After driving a Triumph TR-6 almost everyday for 10 years prior to my 996 Tip, I can certainly understand the visceral feeling that manual owners have toward those softies who opt for automatics. It seems impossible and even unfair that automatic drivers could have the same, or god forbid, more driving enjoyment or performance without the work and pain that comes with a manual transmission. The same feeling is true of cross country vs. downhill skiers, motorcyclers vs auto drivers, hikers vs. ATVers, rock climbers vs. glacier climbers, wooden boat builders vs. fiberglass, sailors vs. powerboaters... the list goes on. Its a powerful feeling that seems both beneath and beyond logical reasoning.

gentlemen: this horse is dead. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> bury it,please. name calling should have no place in this forum. <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> cya <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Give up trying to teach this jerk manners.....I did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Congrats Gretch, you just showed us the manners YOU were taught. Even though we don't agree in the subject my manners teach me not to disrespect you, and so I haven't. And until now this was just an impersonal change of views on a 996 related subject from all the posters, which you turned sour by your attitude. But seems like you can't handle the fact that someone's respectful presentation of arguments don't agree with you. So in the future I would apreciate if you do in fact stick to your statement of absteining to teach me or any other poster anymore mannersin your posts thank you. And I take it from a previous comment of yours ("you just suffer from the desease of youth") that I'm younger than you?

Carlos, Oops re-read my my post and realized it wasn't you who made the comment on driving tips at speed. Apologies. BUT you did re-quote it which means you atleast agreed with the statement <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I have never in my posts tried to push my opinion on tips being the only opinion. In fact if you go over my old posts on other threads you will find that in a lot of ocassions I have counselled against a tip and that if I had to do it over again I maybe wouldn't have gotten a tip. What I do object to is words such as "purist" which generalize your statements to a broader population rather than making it clear that it is YOUR personal opionion.

Carlos let me explain further. I don't know what the particular meaning of "purist" is in Europe but in North America alot of times it has a bit of "elitist" connotation. As well I'm sure you notice from this board that a lot of "Porsche Purists" have a very narrow definition of what constitutes a proper Porsche. Perhaps this is a cross-atlantic miscommnication on this thread. Oh well I'll get off my soap-box now

Gretch, I test-drove the 996 tip and must say it's a BIG improvement over my 993 especially going from 1st to 2nd. The addition of an extra gear makes a huge change.

Alex, first gear is almost violent and made more so by PSM and 4 wheel drive ......... Makes "launch" a real hoot. If for all other reasons, the tip S is your tranny of choice, at lease you don't give up much (if anything, but that is an "opinion" as we have both attempted to point out)on performance. The things that tranny will do all on its own, based on what is going on with the car, are nothing short of amazing. We need a new thread..... and an "ignore poster" button.

For Porsche enthusiasts it seems there are different levels of "purist". The definition of the word "purist", like the words "sports car" has been diluted by the acceptance of popular opinion. Ultimately, I think being a purist is defined by your level of involvement. Manual gear selection is as involved as transmissions get.

Alex, I haven't read your other posts on other threads on the subject so I guess I misinterpreted you in that you are "pushing your opinion", so my apologies too. I did agree with that statement I quoted but I think not in the sense you interpreted it, since misinterpretations aside I actually agree with your last posts reffering to the pros and cons of a Tip. I interpreted purist in that context, not as the ones having an intolerant concept of a Porsche that "think what is and isn't the correct type of Porsche" (to which I don't agree- I chose an AWD, water-cooled, wood/leather interiour Porsche for example and THESE purists would say that thats not a true Porsche) but rather I interpreted it in a more neutral manner, as a general prefference on certain aspects of a Porsche that prefer performance/sportiness over confort/practicality. Both views more purist/less purist are equally valid and equally Porsche. So in your interpretation I would agree with you.

I know this subject has been virtually flogged to death but I've been away for a few days and have just been reviewing the posts. There is one point I'd like to make that I havn't seen made already. I don't regard myself as a purist, in fact I'm probably not a very good driver. But I do get a hell of a kick out of doing something right, even if its only once in 10 attempts. And with a 6-speed you know when you got it right, whereas, I would suggest a tip would do it right for me every time and I'm not sure it would give me the same buzz. Just my 2 cents.

Hey, I haven't heard anything about a rear seal failure and Porsche not giving someone a new engine to cure it! Can we start that thread up again so we can beat that dead horse???

I have a 996tt tiptronic.Ilive in the Boston area and it works for me.I also have a manuel 911Rsa I use for the track.I actually like the sporty feeling of late apexing a turn in the tiptronic.Full focus on the road and booth hands on the wheel.

Another point not yet argued made regarding driving a tip, contrary to a previous post, you can match revs when downshifting, I do it all the time. I have a tip. I drive it only in manual mode. I am very involved in the driving experience regardless of whether or not I am stuck in bumper to bumper traffic or racing crotch rockets or other P-cars throgh our beautiful canyons. I match revs when down shifting. I don't miss working a clutch. I like having extra room for my long left leg. I wish it had 5 or 6 gears. The Clutch -I like not having to anticipate replacing this particular a $3,000 wear item.

Keyvan Do what I do. I commute in London every day in my Citroen 2CV (2 cylinders and 600cc means I can thrash it just to keep up - fun!) On friday nights I 'commute' to North Norfolk in my manual 1990 C4 Coupe - lots of fun!!